My First D&D Group: Is my DM bad?

[Grytorm]

Hello again, for years I have bemoaned the fact that I haven't had a D&D group. I got in around 10 years ago when I was young but never got the opportunity to play much. But some of my sister's friends ended up starting a group and my sister and I have joined. I am currently playing a Bard and having fun. But I just wanted to get others' opinions on a few details of what has happened.

First there is the size of the party. The first session had 6 PCs. But the next few stayed at 5 players in attendance, during this period we acquired several NPC party members. Last session two new people showed up as well as the one guy who couldn't attend for a while. Making 8 PCs and 3 NPCs in the party.

Second for a while we had a DMPC character traveling with us, our superior. He was a 6th level Paladin but as of yet has not leveled up as far as I can tell. At least once he has been used to force an encounter when I tried to convince the group to slit the throats of around 20 bandits while they were asleep. I kind of wish the party Druid had died mostly for role playing being mad at the Paladin.

Third there has been almost no plot and the adventures are somewhat linear. Basically we have been wandering around "patrolling" for the Baron and trouble shows up. Probably the most interesting part was the cave exploration where we found a Svirfneblin village. I have considered retiring to there in order to avoid the loss of traditional village rights and privileges to greedy noblemen*. We have been attacked by Goblins at least once for the sole reason being that they were Goblins. Eh.

Fourth I feel like loot might be a little short, especially given that it is split so many ways. We have found a few Potions, to magic weapons, a Ring of Defense and a few Scrolls. As of yet no opportunity to shop has presented itself. Although I find it funny that the father figure of my sister's character, a Wizard, charged for Identify spells. Just found it a little funny.

Fifth the DM is a little rough with mechanics. It doesn't bother me and I usually keep quite, mostly I think it is because he started with older additions with Infravision and a few other different rules.

Last is not really a huge complaint and is in here more just to share. In the last encounter slightly annoyed me because we didn't do anything to a pretty awful NPC. The man is apparently a slightly stereotypical ranch owner. When several of his sheep died on the property of his neighbor the Rancher formed a lynch mob and tried to hang the Shepherd. We went to the carcasses and were immediately attack by an Owlbear. After that was over the Rancher apparently hires the Shepherd because his employees were to cowardly to stand up to the monster and no hard feelings exist over the attempted murder for some reason. Also, I think the Rancher was probably also letting his sheep graze on his neighbors land. Which is pretty heinous in my opinion :smalltongue:

*I will admit that I kind of do roleplay as an Anarchist Gnome Bard who distrusts authority. Not straight Anarchy but definitely strongly in favor of local autonomy.

[ZeroiaSD]

He does sound pretty rough, though I've definitely seem worse. If one doesn't mind playing light games and mainly bouncing from encounter to encounter- a legitimate playstyle- then not so bad, and considering the people coming and going that seems to be his style.

With any game, remember if you're not having fun with the playstyle/game as a whole, quit, but if you've just got some problems while still are enjoying yourself, you can talk to the DM one-on-one some of 'em.

[Rangô]

Hey there!,
It seems to me that:

1) Overpopulation. Too much PCs makes the game dense, even more if they are noobs. Waiting your turn too long distracts you from the action, that ends up in parallel conversations, forgetting the action and usually boring you. It's needed a fluent narrative and decision making in order to achive a funny game. 3-5 PC + DM is the right formula.

2) DMPC... well, you have to deal with it, I'm not supporting the use of it, the real protagonists of the story should be the PCs but if the DM thinks it's necessary to narrate or DM really enjoys with it and provides fun, DM rules.

3) Linear, yep... Having the feeling of patrol the same path wearies, having a fight just because you were there too. But, once again, DM rules and create a great story is a tough task. Sometimes creativity flies away and DM draws on typical situations... Try to give DM new ideas from book, comics, movies, perhaps a time break or rotate the DM.

4) Loot, never is enough. Check if you have the wealth according to your level, if so no claims, else beg a little :smalltongue:

5) Rough mechanics is something that goes improving each session, so be patient and keeping quite is the smartest option. The game must be fluent so don't disturb it as much as possible with rules. Discuss about it after the session.

6) Enjoy and nothing else must be considering to keep playing

[Florian]

Simply read like the GM is old-school and learned his ropes with a older edition of D&D. Apparently, you´re also stuck in some kind of sandbox and the content encountered is random generated and then some relationship to the rest of what is happening is added to it on the fly.

That game style was popular back then and is still popular know, but tend to clash a bit with the expectations of how to play with newer editions.

[ExLibrisMortis]

I think the overpopulation is probably stifling some of the more individual, personal play that would lead to character development. That is not a bad thing necessarily, I am just noting it. It is possible that the DM would not engage in much roleplay regardless. I don't think the DM is bad, just playing a different type of game than you might have expected.

If you don't find any plot, you can always make your own. Clearly say (in character) that you want a flying castle, and work towards it. Look for large-scale flying spells, do quests to obtain the service of builders, organize an expedition to the Elemental Plane of Air/Earth to find floating rocks, and so on. If your DM is good, they will let you work for it, especially if you can get some other PCs on board with the plan - in a large group, it's best not to go off solo too much.

[Toilet Cobra]

Not as bad as many stories I've read here. Really the only thing that gets me is the overcrowding; if I were in your position I might ask the DM if he'd like to split the current group into two groups, or cut back to just the people who can be there regularly. But that's just me.

As for the rest, well, you take orders from a paladin you're gonna have to act a little lawful stupid. Utilizing unorthodox ideas like throat-slitting, and not fighting the goblins just because they're there, probably won't fly. Why is an anarchist gnome working for the local feudal lord anyhow?

[Honest Tiefling]

Not going to lie, he's...Not being the best DM here. But he is new, so give friendly advice and comments and maybe he'll get better. He could also be swamped because of the excess people and couldn't bring himself to say no.

As for the paladin issue, I must ask: Did you clear the gnome's feelings and beliefs with the DM beforehand? This is a common mistake of newbie DMs. I wonder if the paladin strong arming you into NOT murdering people was because he wasn't aware you had a character that was so inclined. So he used an NPC to stop something that could have easily broken down the game. (an evil PC in the midst of a goodly group...Which even experienced DMs have issues with!) Or you just caught him off guard. To me, it seems like he could have very well been unprepared for your antics and shut it down not out of spite, but out of panic.

If you think you can do better, I suggest you do so. If you have no interest in DMing in the long term, wait for Halloween. Run a one session or month long campaign involving the holiday. Show him how it CAN be done, rather then badger him when he might feel pressured as it is.

[AnimeTheCat]

I second what a few of the people on here have said. If its already a weekly thing and you've got some people unable to make it every week, probably the best thing to do is to split the group so that there are fewer PCs in each session then go to an every-other week meet up. If the DM doesn't have any problem playing weekly then that would solve both the overly crowded games and should help some of the other players make it to games more regularly since it isn't as much of a commitment.

Also, another thing you can do is show him some of the pre-made modules. I hear good things from Forge of Fury (designed for level 5-7 I think?) and Red Hand of Doom (multi-module campaign takes you from very low level to 10+ maybe I think?). I know that Forge of Fury can be put in to any world that has dwarves and it is a very fun dungeon crawl and Red Hand of Doom is a full on campaign, including DMPC style characters that can be a part of the party for any route the PCs decide to go IIRC.

Unfortunately, if the DM isn't receptive to any of this there's really nothing you can do except:
A) count your losses and leave if you're truly not having any fun, or
B) Bite the bullet and keep playing if you're having fun but it's just not how you imagined it.

[Grytorm]

Yeah, that assessment pretty much hits everything on the nose. Not really that dissatisfied by the game. although suggesting the group split might be a good idea. I think the Paladin isn't that bad, especially because he seems to be being phased out.

[Telok]

It almost sounds more like an inexperienced DM than anything else. I used to make some of those mistakes myself.

Live and learn, as long as you're having fun it's all right.

[Ualaa]

The ultimate question, the only thing that really matters, is are you having fun?

If you are, then the game is worthwhile.

If you're not, then the game should change or perhaps you should move on.
Although, you could privately (don't put him on the spot in front of the other players) communicate your issues.

Having a bunch of NPCs is not inherently bad.
But the focus should be on the players; they're the stars of the adventure.
Each should have regular opportunities to shine, to be the hero.
If that is the case, then the other cast members are there for support.
If the NPCs are the stars of the show, and the PCs just kind of tag along, then that's likely not a good scenario to be part of.

The Paladin shouldn't be okay with slitting throats, even if that is convenient or easier.
They're a Paladin.
They will want to do the right thing, because it is the right thing.
Even if the Goblins are terrorizing the country side, taking them out by underhanded means is not going to fly with the Paladin's code.

The Paladin might not be getting any of the experience, and really it doesn't matter if he does or not.
Maybe he's there, to kind of get your team in the right direction.
And then can fade away or perhaps be taken out down the road, by the bad guy or his lieutenant?
If the Paladin is not the main star of the action, but kind of supports the group, that is more than fine.
Even if he's inconvenient at times, because a Paladin is just that.... LG.

Ultimately, are you and your friends having fun?
That is the question to ask.

[killem2]

I would not say he is bad. I would say he is in over his head.

Not controlling group size is one problem.

Not realizing that unless he can handle it, he should not play his own player character. Especially if he isn't able to keep it in the same realm as all of you.

Lastly, I don't have a problem with him not knowing the rules. This is a complex game and very hard to grasp everything.

You have a chance to shape a new DM into someone good and experienced.

[Grytorm]

Yeah, pretty much he isn't actually really bad. Mostly it seems better to complain about the things that I could complain about where anonymity is present.

Also, he really isn't a new DM. He definitely has run games before, although it seems like that was a while ago with AD&D (He and his wife have a collection of Knights of the Dinner Table books, as well as some Conan novels and some Lovecraft stuff). And it definitely is worthwhile.

[Dousedinoil]

With a party that size have you ever thought of asking him if you could co-DM?

Make a nice compliment sandwich and tell him how much fun you are having and how he ran an encounter. Then ask him if you can either run an encounter or create one for him.

Should work out well if he wants the help.