View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Four New Base Classes

2016-05-31, 03:15 PM
Hello there! I have been working on these 4 classes for the past few months and I would appreciate any critique you can give. I will place an asterisk near the classes I would like to be prioritized for critique over others. Thank you all in advance!

*Magus: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1p4sg1VzUiD-VaLtA-rgmpk2-O9Yxfa_KlEKtngdXZ_w/edit?usp=sharing

*Inquisitor: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jOkDcGFB5Dg7O3-gKcKuUMn3hS3Bp2HatIoXV19jgR0/edit?usp=sharing

Artificer: https://docs.google.com/a/opschools.org/document/d/1jXwqH9D74FHPU622kk8UzITq8GfVYwvlskuZOVkJX2w/edit?usp=sharing

Warlord: https://docs.google.com/document/d/12YtBaoWl4X9vj-hY17TY9WaJK-cFnEvxc4HELUEaZP0/edit?usp=sharing

2016-05-31, 06:38 PM
I just looked over the Inquisitor, and I feel the class could use some serious tuning. It's an interesting concept, trading full spellcasting for an extra attack and a fighting style. This winds up being about equal to the DPR of a Paladin or a Ranger, but with less nova capability than the Paladin and less damage than the Ranger until level 8. Now, if the primary points of this class were "cleric domain with extra attack but half-casting", I'd give them all martial weapons, d10 hit die, and call it a day; it's effectively a refluffed Paladin.

However, there's one more central class feature, the Judgement. It raised a couple of red flags when I noticed that can access all of the options at level 1. It raised a few more when I noticed that there was no limit on uses per short or long rest. It raised another when I noticed that there was no set limit on duration. Finally, it ran out of flags to raise and started setting off fireworks when I saw the effects. Here's a rundown on why I feel most of these options are unbalanced:

Destruction: It's a scaling to-hit bonus. With it, at level 2, using Standard Array, a Wood Elf, and the Archery fighting style, you have a +10 to-hit. By the time that character reaches 19th level, they have a +18 to hit. For reference, no other class can reach a +10 bonus to-hit until 8th level, and no other class can have a to-hit bonus higher than +13. *edit* Considering that there is another ability that grants a bonus to-hit, I assume this was supposed to grant an increase to damage. If that's the case, this goes from being wildly overpowered to stronger than most class features, but not broken. If the class didn't already get Divine Strike and Improved Divine Strike, I'd call this pretty well balanced.

Purity: It's a scaling bonus to saving throws. I know that Paladins get Aura of Protection, which is basically this but in an AoE, but they have to wait until level 10. With Purity, you essentially gain proficiency in all saving throws, and expertise in all saves you are proficient in. This is simply way to strong at such an early level.

Protection: It's a scaling bonus to AC that stacks with armor. This is really, really easy to abuse, especially considering that the class already has access to heavy armor, shields, and fighting styles.

Healing: It's the Champion Fighter's capstone, but without it's restrictions. You can use this to heal to maximum health, and you can do this starting at level 1. With this as an option, you could just turn it on after every fight and never need any other source of healing.

Justice: It's a scaling bonus to-hit that stacks with Destruction. At 11th level, you could have a to-hit bonus of +16. Barring critical failures, you have no reason to miss anything less than a Tarrasque. *edit* Assuming that Destruction does not provide a bonus to-hit, this becomes a lot less powerful. It's still really strong, especially at early levels; a +9 bonus at level 2 is ridiculous. Because of the 5e Bounded Accuracy philosophy, I'm leery of any abilities that provide significant bonuses to-hit, especially abilities with no limits on use.

Resistance: It's at will, variable damage resistance that stays around indefinitely after the initial cast. This is Protection From Energy, only better, since you can gain resistance to mundane damage types as well, it doesn't require concentration, and it doesn't require a spell slot. For an ability you can use at level 1, this is too much.

Saving Throws: While it's not part of Judgement, this also needs to be addressed. No class gets two common saving throws; being proficient in Dex and Wis would make you the god of saves. I'd recommend changing this to Strength and Wisdom, for balance if nothing else, and because this resembles the Ranger if you squint at it.

Overall, I'd either get rid of or severely nerf the Judgement feature. Judgement's just too strong, and the class is actually pretty well balanced without it. If you do get rid of Judgement, my earlier advice still stands; with d10 hit dice, Wisdom and Strengh saving throws, and all martial weapons, this class is ready to go.

Final Hyena
2016-05-31, 07:01 PM
Inquisitor (because the name is cool)
Saving throw; dex & wis
You get 1 from;
dex, con, wis
and 1 from;
str, int, cha

I would make it wisdom and strength or maybe wisdom and charisma.

There isn't a single dex skill for a class that was deemed dexterous enough to get a dex saving throw.
Although with the above changes that's not a big issue, I dunno I feel like an inquisitor might want to be stealthy.

destruction, justice and protection should all be on par. Otherwise you just pick whichever is the highest, which on first glance is usually destruction.
I would make every judgement level up at the same time to avoid the boring, which gives me the most +x.
Also I suspect destruction is supposed to be a bonus to damage not attack :)
EDIT; healing should progress at roughly half the rate of the more standard judgements because of miss chance.
EDIT 2;I would also give a judgement a time limit of 1 minute along with uses per wisdom or maybe scale it a bit slower than that.

Channel Divinity
This is based around your inquisition type, of which there aren't any. :(

Divine strike
Where art thou?

2016-05-31, 07:17 PM
Magus actually seems pretty well balanced; it just needs some clarification and 5e love.

Saving Throws: No class is proficient in Constitution saving throws; Wisdom would probably be a better choice, especially given the anti-caster feel this class has.

Mystic Empowerment: My weapon is enchanted with energy, but what does it do? At level 1, there is no reason to enchant my weapon; it takes a bonus action, and it doesn't do anything. Also, what's the duration? You say it's one minute plus my Intelligence modifier. My Intelligence modifier what? Minutes? Seconds? Hours?

Fighting Style: Every class other than the Fighter doesn't get a fighting style until second level; Fighting Style should be a second level feature, not a first level feature.

Magi Points: You say "you have 2 Magi points, and you gain more as you reach higher levels, as shown in the Magi Points column of the Magus table", but there is no Magi Points column.

Mystic Body: I said this class was well balanced earlier, but this feature isn't. It's a huge power spike when it takes effect, but is absolutely useless when you're not fighting casters. I'd suggest coming up with a new feature for this level.

Swift Summoning: Free actions don't exist in 5e; maybe something like "As part of your attack action, you can summon your bonded weapon. In addition, you can transform and/or enchant your weapon as you summon it."?

2016-05-31, 07:19 PM
Thank you for the advice! Yeah, the Inquisitor is definitely a hot mess, but if at all possible, i would like to keep judgement, at least in some form. I tried to use the original pathfinder class as reference to get my brain working, but i wasn't sure what to do with judgements. Its a huge part of the Inquisitor, and i already cut bane so if at all possible, i would like to keep Judgement. Also, thank you for your suggestions I'll definitely take them to heart.
Also, if you would be willing, could you suggest some alternative ideas for the inquisitors judgement ability i would be very grateful.

2016-05-31, 07:24 PM
Is mystic empowerment really that unfavorable at level 1? I mean, yeah it doesn't offer any strict damage bonuses, but it changes your weapons element. If you can target your enemy's weakness, then you deal double damage. Or is that just not good for 1st level at all. What would you suggest instead?
Also, regarding Mystic Body; it is an ability very similiar to what oath of the ancients paladins get around that level and i thought it fit. I'm not sure what i would do as a replacement yet, so I'll leave it as is for now

2016-05-31, 07:27 PM
Also, thank you all for taking the time to look over these classes. I'm not able to make edits to my document right away, so don't think I'm ignoring you, I'm just not able to change it yet

2016-05-31, 07:30 PM
Saving Throws: No class is proficient in Constitution saving throws

Ummmm...Barbarian, Fighter, and Sorcerer ALL are proficient with CON saves... :smalltongue:

2016-05-31, 07:41 PM
If you really want to keep Judgement, you could treat it like the PHB Hunter features. It would look something like this:

At 1st level, you can choose either Justice or Destruction. These features always provide their benefit, and no longer take a bonus action to activate. Justice gives +1 to hit at all levels, Destruction gives +2 to damage at all levels.

At 9th level, you gain Smiting. This feature always provides its benefit, and no longer takes a bonus action to activate. Your weapon now counts as magical for the purpose of overcoming damage resistance.

At 13th level you can choose either Purity or Resistance. These features always provide their benefit, and no longer take a bonus action to activate. Purity gives a +2 bonus to saving throws. Resistance allows you to choose one type of damage and permanently gain resistance to it.

At 17th level, you can choose either Healing or Protection. These features always provide their benefits, and no longer take a bonus action to activate. Healing allows you to heal your Constitution modifier hit points per round if you are under half health. Protection gives you +1 AC.

This is something I slapped together in a few minutes, feel free to change it.

2016-05-31, 07:45 PM
It changes your weapons element.

Okay, so that's what it does. As written, it just says you enchant your weapon, but it doesn't say what enchanting it does. If you want to make that clear, you should add that it changes the kind of damage your weapon deals.

2016-05-31, 07:48 PM
Ummmm...Barbarian, Fighter, and Sorcerer ALL are proficient with CON saves... :smalltongue:

Crap, you're right. I derped for a second there :smalltongue:

2016-06-01, 09:10 AM
Magus issues:

1) point max is not listed on the table

2) Spell Fencer is pretty bad. I mean, you're great at switching weapons, but that's a pretty situational ability- it's not like there's a lot of creatures that need a specific mundane damage type, and even those that do you can pick your weapon in round 1 and stuck with it. As is, this is by far the weaker archetype.

3) I actually like the elemental weapon thing. It feels cool and flashy and magical, gets around resistance to nonmagical P/S/B, but isn't a huge power boost

2016-06-01, 09:21 AM
artificer looks good my only advice ditch the infusion word

2016-06-01, 02:52 PM
Alright, I made some edits, so if any of you wpuld be willing to take one more look that'd be great. Thank you all for your suggestions, obviously, its still not perfect and i may have missed out on a small detail that needs editing or replacing, but nontheless, i am very grateful for your critique.

2016-06-01, 02:55 PM
Also, what would you suggest to make the Spell Fencer a bit stronger? I want to stay away from strict damage bonuses, because those are boring, so if you have any ideas, please tell me!

2016-06-02, 04:17 AM
Interesting work on the Magus. I can't comment on balance very proficiently, but I have some thoughts on flavor and action economy:

The Spell Fencer subclass has three things that stick out to me. The first is, it relies heavily on the Mystic Empowerment feature. This makes it feel a bit one-note. Secondly, the Elemental Ward feature seems out of place in a basically offensive subclass. It also overlaps significantly with Mystic Body. Finally, there don't seem to be very many features that take advantage of your reaction.

So what I'd suggest is to come up with some feature that can replace Elemental Ward and take advantage of your reaction. Maybe something like the following:

Defending Blast
At 7th level, you learn to use small gaps in your opponents' defenses to chip away at them. When a hostile creature within 10' of you makes an attack that doesn't include you as a target, if you're wielding a weapon affected by Mystic Empowerment, you can use your reaction to fire an elemental ray at that creature. This is a ranged spell attack that deals 1d6 damage. Your Mystic Empowerment feature determines its damage type. This attack interrupts the triggering creature's attack, and that attack automatically fails if your Defending Blast reduces it to 0 HP. At 18th level, you may add your Intelligence modifier to the damage of the ray.

So you're still working to improve ally survivability with this feature, but in a way that makes you better at dealing damage.

I'd consider dropping Swift Summoning and incorporating a damaging feature at that level as well.

Night Eternal
2016-06-02, 03:14 PM
Magnus looks like it has some interesting possibilities nice work. Not good at home brewing except for magical items but im interested to see the final product

2016-06-05, 01:55 PM
All right, any other suggestions for the Magus or Inquisitor? Next, I want to go over the Warlord and the Artificer

2016-06-06, 09:53 AM
I'm looking at the warlord and I just want to say... You say tactics way too much. I'll replay later with more I go but you should diversify feature names.


After reading more... I feel like the Warlord (and teachnically each Archetype) could just be a fighter archetype that works like the Purple Dragon Knight but... You know balanced and not sucky like the Purple Dragon Knight. Warlord can be a base class but with how you are working it... It seems like it is just a beefy Bard or a fighter.

I'm working on a PDK myself for a friend, I'm going to post it later as it resembles what you are trying to do with this base class.

This be Richard
2016-06-06, 12:53 PM
The Warlord was probably my favorite thing about 4e, so I'm going to have a look at your proposed 5e version.

Battle Tactics
It's pretty rare in 5e to add flat numbers to rolls -- especially d20 rolls -- rather than using an ability modifier or advantage or some other trick to influence the roll. Improving an ally's chances of hitting also doesn't seem like the kind of thing 5e would offer as a free action. To compare this feature to bardic inspiration, it has a more reliable effect, but without the chance for a huge positive outcome. This can only be used on attack rolls, too, where BI can be used on saving throws and ability checks. BI requires a bonus action to use. Personally, I think the reliablility makes this a bit more powerful than bardic inspiration, which I should also note only refreshes on a short rest once you've sunk a significant number of levels into the class.
Off the top of my head, I might suggest using your reaction to let an allied creature re-roll an attack before the DM declares whether the first roll hit or missed. Feature usable charisma modifier times per long rest... possibly with a higher-level upgrade to refreshing on short rests as well. That might still be a bit OP, though. Not sure.

Inspiring Word
With Battle Tactics being a powerful feature and level 1 already giving full proficiencies, three skill proficiencies, and d10 hit dice, I'm not certain there really needs to be another level one feature for this class. Maybe you could add it in later? Also, being able to use it on whoever you want at a significant range probably makes this a bit better than the Fighter's Second Wind, which might influence how you want to balance it.

Fighting Style
I'd be reluctant to give anyone but Fighter the full set of fighting styles to choose from. I'm not entirely sure which fighting styles I'd drop for the warlord, but since I imagine Warlords being either Sword & Board combatants or archers, I might suggest dropping GWF and TWF. Not absolutely certain, though.

Combat Leader
Again, adding a flat number is pretty uncommon. And potentially adding initiative to the entire party is really powerful.
I kind of want to suggest ripping off paladin auras for this. Maybe you boost initiative by your Cha mod for people within 10 feet of you? And maybe you can increase that aura to 30 feet at a high level?

Coordinated Offensive
One thing I've been wrestling with in my endeavor to make a warlord-esque bard subclass (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?489977) is the fact that your allies might have more powerful attacks than you. Trading in one of yours for one of theirs is potentially unbalancing, especially if you still get to take a swing yourself and nobody has to sacrifice anything extra to make the attack. The Battlemaster's Commander's Strike, for example, consumes one of the fighter's attacks, the fighter's bonus action, and the attacking ally's reaction.
All of which is my way of saying that Coordinated Offensive needs to be toned down and/or made more costly to use.
The 11th level upgrade is hugely powerful. I recognize it's meant to parallel the fighter getting an extra swing at that level, but there are bigger and scarier attacks out there than what a fighter can bring to bear.
Finally, beware of Rogues using sneak attack an extra time per round at high level because of this feature.

Tactical Master
Solid, though it overlaps with Battle Tactics in terms of functionality.

Weakening Tactics
Inversing Battle Tactics is fine, though the comments about Battle Tactics above still apply.

Inspiring Leadership
Wow. Okay. This is really good, but I'm not sure it's so good as to be unbalanced.


Heroic Surge
I don't know temporary HP balance well enough to say whether this is too good or not.

Defensive Tactics
Yeah, okay.

Adaptable Stratagem
No objections.

Commanding Presence

Improved Critical, Additional Fighting Style
I'd avoid taking the Champion's signature perks away from being unique to the Champion.

Commander's Support
It just straight-up turns failure into success? Dang. That's... really powerful.

No major objections.

2016-06-06, 07:20 PM
Thank you for the suggestions, I'll work on it next time I'm given the chance

2016-06-07, 10:54 AM
I take back what I said about the Warlord being a subclass... True fighter has too much baggage and is way too inconsistent to make a proper Warlord.


Edit: It can work, but not well enough.