Invisibility -- does the caster "feel" it when the spell drops?

[ClintACK]

Scenario:

The Wizard casts Invisibility on the Rogue.
The Rogue stealthily scouts ahead, and runs into trouble.
When the Rogue makes an attack, defending himself and the invisibility spell ends for the Rogue.

Question: Does the Wizard know? Can he alert the party that the Rogue is in danger, or not?

[Drackolus]

There's no raw, so it's up to the person.
Personally though, since it takes concentration, it seems natural to assume that the wizard would feel whatever they're "holding" drop. But maybe not.

[JackPhoenix]

Well, the caster doesn't need to keep his concentration up anymore, so I guess yes.

[JoeJ]

That's one of those "ask your DM" questions.

[Plaguescarred]

Well, the caster doesn't need to keep his concentration up anymore, so I guess yes.That's a very good point in favor of being aware that it ended!

[Logosloki]

Unless someone wishes to roleplay otherwise the assumption i make is that casters are aware when their magic ends.

[Kane0]

It makes for an interesting distinction from concentration and fire-n-forget spells too. You'd know when your buffed up friend has lost his invisibility, but not necessarily when his sanctuary has ended.

[unwise]

Yeah I would say the wizard knows. I can't imagine him concentrating power into a spell that does not exist.

It is much funnier the other way though, the wizard gets attacked and the scouts invisibility drops. He has no idea and keeps walking right past the guards, thinking he is invisible.

[Dalebert]

It makes for an interesting distinction from concentration and fire-n-forget spells too. You'd know when your buffed up friend has lost his invisibility, but not necessarily when his sanctuary has ended.

Agreed. It would seem extra cruel to the wizard who might forgo casting any other concentration spells because he thinks he's maintaining one. And what's he maintaining? I picture concentration like holding a mug in your hand that's half-full of coffee. It's sort of second nature but a shock could make you spill it, but in this case the mug has vanished.


It is much funnier the other way though, the wizard gets attacked and the scouts invisibility drops. He has no idea and keeps walking right past the guards, thinking he is invisible.

Shades of the show Soap. Probably before most of your folks' time.

There was a guy who was thoroughly convinced he could turn invisible and would behave accordingly.

[Regitnui]

The wizard would feel the spell 'slip' if they were maintaining concentration, while I'm pretty sure there's a certain way that the rogue would know; they could see themselves again. Barring that, the surprised enemies.

[Democratus]

What if they had cast invisibility on 2 creatures (by casting at 3rd level) and only one of them had dropped the invisibility?

Concentration would still be required to keep the spell up. So would they know that 1/2 of the targets are no longer invisible?

[RickAllison]

What if they had cast invisibility on 2 creatures (by casting at 3rd level) and only one of them had dropped the invisibility?

Concentration would still be required to keep the spell up. So would they know that 1/2 of the targets are no longer invisible?

Without any RAW backing or justification, I would say they can feel it (they have the connection through concentration), but they don't know which person it is lost on. Basically, they know that something occurred but don't know where.

[Ruslan]

The answer to this question would depend on what does Concentration actually mean, how does it manifest itself in your game world. I can totally see both views as valid. However, to avoid being an evil DM, I'd say he knows the spell dropped.

[Segev]

This really has no RAW answer in 5e, and you won't find one, most likely, because it's the kind of fuzzy area that the rulings of a DM should be able to handle.

[ClintACK]

This really has no RAW answer in 5e, and you won't find one, most likely, because it's the kind of fuzzy area that the rulings of a DM should be able to handle.

This is probably my real problem. I'm stuck in the 3.5e idea of an explicit rule for every possible edge case. :)

My gut feeling is pretty much the same as everyone else's -- he'd feel the sudden lack of "resistance" to his effort to concentrate and realize the spell had slipped.

[Democratus]

Agreed. I think I like the idea that you just keep concentrating till you decide to stop.

It adds more narrative tension. Do you start to concentrate on a new spell, or is that rogue from 45 minutes ago still running under invisibility?

Difficult decisions make for better games imo.

[Segev]

This is probably my real problem. I'm stuck in the 3.5e idea of an explicit rule for every possible edge case. :)

My gut feeling is pretty much the same as everyone else's -- he'd feel the sudden lack of "resistance" to his effort to concentrate and realize the spell had slipped.

Were I DM, I would ask myself how magic works in my setting, and what "concentration" represents in the underlying (non-game-rule) mechanics that are represented by the game-rule mechanics.

That usually will tell me if the spell's cessation would be noticed.

If a spell is a constant burden on the concentrating mind, the alleviation of that burden would let the spellcaster know. If it's more like having to hold down a button to hold the door open on an elevator, but you can't see whether the person has gotten onto the elevator yet or not, you've got to guess whether you should stop yet or not.

[coredump]

Shades of the show Soap. Probably before most of your folks' time.
]
Most,but not all. One of my favorites at the time. (Was he the guy also taken by aliens?)


There was also a funny Night Court episode with a man thinking he was invisible.... but only if he was naked.

[Dalebert]

(Was he the guy also taken by aliens?)

Probably but I can't remember. I actually remember very little from that show except that it was hilarious at the time.

[pwykersotz]

From a purely thematic standpoint I would say no, they don't necessarily feel concentration dropping. Unless the spell says that explicitly, of course. I liken it in my mind to speaking. You don't know that your words are being heard and understood, all you can do is keep doing it until you deem it not worthwhile anymore. Like Dispel Magic, you don't know if you got anything. Or Fireball. Who knows if you hit that guy around the corner until you see his burns? Most magic doesn't have built-in feedback, and that helps to encourage an element of suspense and drama.

Now from a gameplay standpoint, I support casters knowing when their spells terminate. To do otherwise forces the un-fun situation of wasted effort, especially if both players know the spell is down but they must play in character as if it isn't. There are fun ways to have a player/character separation, that doesn't feel like one of them.

[Arkhios]

I think it could go either way, as stated previously, it might be a matter of how magic works in a given world.

One world might consider spellcasting as a taxing activity, being unable to concentrate on another spell unless you dropped the first (willingly or accidentally) in which case the caster would know. This interpretation does add an extra (although thin) layer of complexity to spellcasting: You must actively decide to drop concentration before being able to cast another concentrated spell.

Another world might see spellcasting as a everyday luxury, where concentrating on a spell just drops when you cast another. This interpretation does imply (to me at least) that concentrating is hardly noticeable activity for the caster, and therefore he won't necessarily notice a spell has ended.

[pwykersotz]

I think it could go either way, as stated previously, it might be a matter of how magic works in a given world.

One world might consider spellcasting as a taxing activity, being unable to concentrate on another spell unless you dropped the first (willingly or accidentally) in which case the caster would know. This interpretation does add an extra (although thin) layer of complexity to spellcasting: You must actively decide to drop concentration before being able to cast another concentrated spell.

Another world might see spellcasting as a everyday luxury, where concentrating on a spell just drops when you cast another. This interpretation does imply (to me at least) that concentrating is hardly noticeable activity for the caster, and therefore he won't necessarily notice a spell has ended.

I see it more like trying to play the perfect game of DDR or Rock Band without being able to necessarily see the score (the rogue) and with the song (spell) going to completion regardless. It takes an intense amount of effort, but have you already been disqualified? Has someone else reset the game? You don't know because the screen with the score has moved away. If he comes back, the score becomes evident, but do you risk lapsing the concentration on a maybe?

Now if you're the one who drops focus because of damage you took, I would definitely argue that you would know without having to stare at your hands. Like trying to recite 17 digits of pi and messing up on digit 13, you know your concentration and focus have lapsed, and it might be because of the metal sticking in your spleen.

[Arkhios]

I agree there's no definitive answer to it, and it's absolutely the DM's call. But I see that either of the examples I mentioned previously could be plausible. As is yours.

[pwykersotz]

I agree there's no definitive answer to it, and it's absolutely the DM's call. But I see that either of the examples I mentioned previously could be plausible. As is yours.

Yep! This kind of situation is the perfect time to explore the countless possibilities that d&d offers.

[Kane0]

"Maintaining a spell? Well... I suppose you could liken it to juggling.
Now not everybody can juggle, and so it is with magic. There is only so many things one can juggle, and any more causes everything to fall in an entertaining fashion.
If one is talented or well trained juggling can become second nature, being able to maintain the rhythm in between performing other tasks. Not all magic demands the same amount of attention, so it is always wise to know well the magics you choose to work.
When a spell has run its course or is interrupted there is an obvious impact on the juggling, to the juggler at least. An unsteady surface or strike against you can force you to drop or miss in your juggling and thus lose the spell, and when a spell has expired the objects you are juggling cease to be there. You can obviously keep going through the motions but it would probably be a little bit embarrassing, eh?"

- Vardon Harkin, Warlock

[Night Eternal]

its ultimately up 2 the dm as he is the god of the world. But I would say that it would make the most sense that the wizard would no. If he is concentrating on the spell keeping it going and it suddenly ended. the energy required to continue maintaining the spell would have no where to go. The link of the spell would be dispersed. And game wise he concentrating so if something happens wouldn't he be aware something would be off with the spell

[Falainothiras]

The PHB mentions on a sidebar the Weave of Forgotten Realms as the basis of magic. Since arcane casters perceive and manipulate the Weave, it makes sense that they would understand the change and that they no longer manipulate magic.