SW:Saga Ed. Droid Help

[FieserMoep]

Cheers,
first of I hope I am not wrong at this Subforum yet I found some other SW Threads here so I hope it is right.
To address the Elephant in the Room I am pretty new to d20 Systems yet have some years as a Roleplayer behind me, this expierience tho told me, that even if something looks fine to me on paper, People that have actually seen the reality of a System might add some valuable advice.

In that regard I hope some off you might take the time to look over my build and address things where they might see potential for improvements.
To explain the build I am planning on playing a Droid Character that is developing his own identity and personality. For me such an awakening comes with certain ideas, hopes and also fears that might be entirely new to a formerly "mechanical" being. As such my Droid is rather paranoid about being wiped clean and views it as an essential aspect of "being a personality" to be capable of treating oneself. Aside from being a former Bodyguard/Assassin Droid this means that Mechanics play a big role and that he should be perfectly viable to look after him self, contribute something to the party besides killing, even something that could be described as "creating" and not be reduced on the functionality he has formerly been programmed to perform without actually showing, in his deeds, that he has become more.

Abilities: (4th Degree)
Str: 13
Dex: 15(20)
Con: -
Int: 14(18)
Wis: 9(10)
Cha: 6

Initial Droid Upgrades: 970/1000

Heuristic Processor Free
Two Arm Appendages Free
Walking Locomotion Free
2x Hand appandages Free
Extra Legs 360
3x Stabilized Tools 150
Vocabulator 50
Locked Access 50
Improved sensors 200
Darkvision 150
Tool appendage 10

Gear: 2915/3000

Multifunction apperatus 80
- Tool kit 250
- Mesh tape Dispenser 10
Blaster Rifle, heavy 2000
- Licence 400
- 3x Power Pack 75
Power recharger 100


Trained Skills:
Initiative
Knowledge (Tactics)
Mechanics
Perception
Use Computer

Update: (03.06.2016) - Thanks to Nerd-o-rama
Levels:
1: Soldier 1: WP (Simple, Rifles, Pistols) | AP (Light, Medium) | Riflemaster | Devastating Attack (Rifles)
2: Soldier 2: Weapon Focus (Rifles)
3: Soldier 3: Autofire Assault | Skill Focus (Mechanics)
4: Independent Droid 1: Sapience | Modification Specialist | +1 Dex | +1 Int
5: Soldier 4: Point Blank Shot
6: Soldier 5: Weapon Specialization (Rifles) | WP (Heavy)
7: Soldier 6: Martial Arts I
8: Soldier 7: Indomitable | +1 Dex | +1 Int
9: Elite Trooper 1: Delay Damage | Greater Weapon Focus (Rifles) | Burst Fire
10: Elite Trooper 2: Damage Reduction I
11: Elite Trooper 3: Greater Weapon Specialization (Rifles)
12: Elite Trooper 4: Damage Reduction II | Tech Specialist | +1 Dex | +1 Int
13: Elite Trooper 5: Controlled Burst
14: Elite Trooper 6: Damage Reduction III
15: Elite Trooper 7: Greater Devastating Attack (Rifles) | Superior Tech (Droids) [Reprogramming for other Superior Techs
16: Elite Trooper 8: Damage Reduction IV | +1 Dex | +1 Int
17: Elite Trooper 9: Ferocious Assault
18: Elite Trooper 10: Damage Reduction V | Unstoppable Force OR Unwavering Resolve
19: Independent Droid 2: Independent Spirit +1
20: Independent Droid 3: Self Repair | +1 Dex | +1 Wis

[Nerd-o-rama]

Hi there. This might get more attention in the Older D&D/AD&D and Other Systems subforum where the main SAGA Edition thread is, but this forum's technically valid for SAGA too, since it's a d20 System (although I believe non-OGL somehow).

Anyway, I'm not an expert on droids, but what you've got here looks pretty good. Using autofire for ranged damage output is one of the simplest ways to optimize a role in SAGA, and you've got most of the basics down. Just one or two observations:

1) Where your level 1 feat should be, it just says "Rifles". I'm going to assume you meant Riflemaster (Galaxy at War 25) there, and if you didn't, you should have. It makes your Heavy Blaster Rifle into a match for an E-Web in raw power, and if a Heavy Blaster Rifle is too pricey for you for starting equipment (depends on how your GM does it), it also provides a really good benefit to the much cheaper and just as effective at low levels Blaster Carbine, letting you Brace for Autofire even though it isn't autofire-only.

2) Speaking of bracing, let's talk about Talents. Now, Penetrating Attack and Greater Penetrating attack are good talents in that they let you take on vehicles (or Elite Troopers or certain Force Users) with a handheld weapon and deal significantly more damage, but they're situational. There's another talents you may consider in the base talent's place: Autofire Assault (Soldier Talent, Galaxy at War 22), which allows you to Brace for Autofire with any weapon, meaning you don't have to strip the single-shot ability out of your rifle in order to get that sweet -0 Autofire penalty from bracing with Controlled Burst (keeping single-fire mode available is handy in case you need to aim to hit someone in cover, as that's essentially impossible with an autofire-only weapon). As for replacing Great Penetrating Attack, Fourth Degree Droids have some nice talents, like Combat Repairs and Targeting Package (both Force Unleashed Campaign Guide 103), or there's Ferocious Assault (Galaxy at War 30), for when you absolutely, positively have to kill every motherkriffer in the room, by yesterday.

2b) Or rather than that, you can always go Armored Defense/Improved Armored Defense. It's fairly easy for any Soldier to get a solid 3 or 4 Reflex Defense and 2-4 Fortitude Defense out of a suit of armor even at high levels if they invest in those talents, plus more space to carry equipment, although that's less of an issue for droids. If you don't get these talents, I recommend installing a shield generator (actually, do that anyway when you can afford it) and/or learning to love cover.

3) Your Will Defense is going to be fairly abysmal. Being a Droid with Sapience will really help here, but you still have to worry about regular old Persuasion checks and Jedi/Sith/random witches bodily hurling you into your squishy comrades. Consider swapping one of your Superior Tech feats for either Unstoppable Force (Clone Wars Campaign Guide 31) or Unwavering Resolve (Clone Wars Campaign Guide 32), depending on whether you're dealing with more spoonbenders or more demotivational speakers by that point in your campaign. Alternatively, take Armored Defense, wear some nice beefy Medium Armor, and beg your GM for Grand Army of the Republic Training even if it doesn't make sense (also Clone Wars Campaign Guide 31).

That's all I got for now, although I'm sure more advice will occur to me later. And of course this is just CharOp - sounds like you've got an interesting characterization and story in mind already.

Oh right, some equipment advice after you start getting credits and before you start Tech Specialisting everything:

-Grenade Launcher. Straps onto your rifle and has a million and one uses, most of them dealing with Jedi/Sith who keep Deflecting your autofire attacks. Concussion, Smoke, and Adhesive grenades come recommended. Don't use Radiation Grenades. They're not just evil, they're OP as hell, and you don't want the GM using them against your meatbag friends.
-Stun Batons or Contact Stunners make great bayonets (better than kicking with Martial Arts I, anyway) and don't require Advanced Melee Weapon proficiency.
-Shield Generators. Possibly the best part of being a droid besides Immunity to Mind-Affecting.
-Also unlimited flight. Jetpacks are fun before then, but also heavy and fuel-dependent.

[FieserMoep]

Hey Nerd-o-rama!
Thank you very much for your advice and your time invested into your answer as it has helped quite a lot.

1.) Yep that was intended to be Riflemaster and given that our GM allows to start with the Maximum Credits per class (3000 in case of Soldier) I will be able to get a Heavy Blaster with a Licence. That talents really looked to good to pass.

2.) Autofire Assault really sounds interesting and works well with Controlled Bursts as you said and I see that stuff like Penetrating Attack is really "specific" in that there are not many Enemies around with DR for it is rather rare. Yet as it stands now I am mostly the only guy in the current party that has any sort of ranged attack power and I am not realy sure how well a Jedi does in close combat against a vehicle. Especially if it flies or the like. You have convinced me tho to think about it, yet for now I would maybe switch Indomitable on Level "8: S7" for that tho I am not sure how important and how often the condition track will play a role. Here I do simply lack playing expierence.

2b.) I played with the Idea of maybe adding Armor, yet it hardly felt worth it, given that I may limit my Dexterity by quite some amount with these two talents and even then it seemed to just give me some +2 here and there especially for I intend on using the Technology Feats to grant some Dexterity. Also so far it looked to me that the Droid Armors from the core book don't have Fortitude Saves and cannot be modded like regular ones? The shield was planned tho the price is kinda high. :)

3.) Agreed here, my Will defense is rather bad as it stands and I might take one of the proposed Talents. The Grand Army of the Republic one sounds quite nice and I maybe think about going more armor then with the build after all. Is Medium the best to go for for I already have that Proficiency and Heavy not worth buying that one?

The gear advice sounds realy solid and it is nice to hear that grenades seem to be somewhat useful for many other systems just neglect those. As for Tech Specializing I might have another question tho. Is it in theory possible to Reprogram Oneself for the Superior Tech Talents so the other Specializations can also be coverd - given that you invest the 1000 Credits (Quite a sum)?
That would free up a Feat for your suggestion in 3.

So far, thank you very much!

[Nerd-o-rama]

The Condition Track can be pretty nasty (which is why I recommended you keep Devastating Attack - doing a metric ton of damage is great, doing a metric ton of damage and slapping stacking maluses on the enemy at the same time is better). While Elite Troopers do have very good Fortitude Defense, there are a number of things out there that can just automatically knock you down the track if they hit your Reflex and deal damage - Scoundrels, Bounty Hunters, and Gunsligers all have this as a Talent, on various conditions. You can even get knocked multiple steps down the CT at once if your GM decides to get nasty (or just shoot you with an Ion weapon). The best way to counteract these things, other than not getting shot/stabbed/lasersworded in the first place, is to efficiently remove CT penalties, and Indomitable is the most efficient way in the game to do so, albeit only once per day. Unless you've got a teammate dedicated to drawing fire away from you, I'd recommend keeping it.

Now, the Penetrating Attack question is a tricky one. Basically the only time that something is going to have a DR of 10 or higher is if it's 1) a Force User with a specific talent, 2) an Elite Trooper with an even more specific talent and equipment loadout, 3) a vehicle, or 4) a droid or beast big enough to effectively be a vehicle. The former two are likely going to be rare enough that the Penetrating Attack talents are marginal, which leaves the latter two to consider. Now, the extra 10 damage is really helpful for burning shields down (if applicable) and chewing through the hull, but let me ask you this: would you rather spend two talents on being able to shoot a TIE Fighter out of the sky with a 5d12 damage rifle, or would you rather hop in a vehicle with a mounted blaster/laser cannon and shoot it out of the sky with a 3-5d10x2 artillery piece? It's entirely up to you, and frankly comes down to a matter of style, both for you and your GM.

As for the Armor possibility, Droids can wear "regular" armor, it just doesn't stack with any built-in plating. Now admittedly, as a high-Dex character, it becomes tricky. Note that "Maximum Dexterity Bonus" does not affect how much Dex you can add to your attacks and skill checks - only to your Reflex Defense. With Improved Armored Defense, the following are your Break Even Points at 20th level:

Max Dex Bonus of +1 | Bonus to Reflex Defense of at least +8
Max Dex Bonus of +2 | Bonus to Reflex Defense of at least +6
Max Dex Bonus of +3 | Bonus to Reflex Defense of at least +4
Max Dex Bonus of +4 | Bonus to Reflex Defense of at least +2

Several armors can do better than this, so shop around for features you like and Equipment Bonuses to Fortitude. You'll need Heavy Armor Proficiency to get +4 Fort, but you can get +2 Fort from either Light or Medium armor.

And yes, by the rules you can reprogram yourself to change any feat, including specific instances of Superior Tech, so that shouldn't be a problem unless your GM decides to disallow it (the other great thing about being a droid, as long as you have the cash to pay for software packages.)

[FieserMoep]

Hmm, I guess that makes sense. So Indomitable stays around. :)

As for Auto Assault I have switched that for the Penetrating Attack on Level 3 now, tho I am not sure what I should pick instead of the Greater Penetrating Attack on Level 17 for the Elite Trooper. Maybe that Ferocious Assault you mentioned to emphasize on the Full Auto Aspect and get a decent AoE, tho it is only once per encounter?

In terms of armor I don't really like the Idea of external armor and I think it might also cause some real harm with actual upgrade. My GM said that I can pick pretty much any feat/talent I fulfill the prerequisite for, so even stuff like Grand Army Training, yet the internal Droid Armors being devoid of any Fortitude Save kinda makes that one useless and many others, that also scale from the fortitude bonus. Also he said that external "regular" Armor is a no-go for a droid in his campaign.

I guess that leaves the two proposed Feats to replace one of the special techs and the other being changed as needed if affordable. Is such a Software package being consumed by usage or can I think of them like some skill ware?

[Nerd-o-rama]

Like I said, not a droid expert, so if it doesn't say in the core book I really have no idea.

And yes, Ferocious Assault is 1/encounter, but don't think of it as an attack. Think of it as Force Slam with like 250% of the damage and no knockdown.

[FieserMoep]

Alrighty, I updated the Initial Post with the Feedback you have given me and I quite like the input you gave me, thank you very much for that Nerd-o-rama!
I guess, as you said, not many other Saga Edition players here or they just keep silent for this is the Droid of Dreams, free from any fault!
Again, I very much appreciate the time and effort of your, realy a great community here. :)

[Eisfalken]

Hi there. This might get more attention in the Older D&D/AD&D and Other Systems subforum where the main SAGA Edition thread is, but this forum's technically valid for SAGA too, since it's a d20 System (although I believe non-OGL somehow).

Quick aside: the reason that it isn't OGL is because it's a unique system that is neither d20/3.X nor 4th edition. There are definitely elements of the 4th edition system in Saga (defense values, skill system, etc.), but the way they handled Force powers and vehicular combat was unique enough that it only has the barest connection either forwards or backwards. Trying to OGL any part of Saga Edition would probably be a huge legal fracas, not the least because Lucasarts (who never saw a work of love for the franchise they didn't sue over) was involved.

Personally, it still rubs me raw the way the system was so utterly abandoned. I don't know if WOTC was playing too hard for the license, or if Lucasarts was just being their usual total a-hole selves, but it is a travesty that the Star Wars franchise still hasn't got a good system to run it.

[Tohsaka Rin]

Your GM has said no regular armor, however, you should check and see if you can get 'non-armor', as in, a piece of gear like an external chest plate or mounting, with no defense bonuses, but be able to add armor mods to it.

If that flies, going to Scum and Villainy for upgrades will be very handy. Depending on how liberal the GM is to modding gear, this can either leave you with a plain harness that has the internal generator upgrade, orrrr...

Having a harness (or whatever you wanna call your non-armor) with integrated equipment (5), tech spec on an extra mod slot, for either a ready-harness OR mounted weapon slots. Going even more abusive, is double-miniaturizing (by adding an extra slot, and taking miniaturization twice) a normal portable generator, and making it one of your integrated equipment pieces. Much much better overall, than the plain internal generator mod.

A lot of this stuff might not fly, but it's worth a shot. For the record, I was the GM for any saga campaigns, and I regularly handed out tweaked gear like this. I have a small heap of weapon builds, too, but I'll suggest some of those later, after finding out how liberal your GM is with requests for custom gear.

[Immabozo]

As prevously mentiioned, the conditions track id kinda broken. I made a character that could drop any target, regardless of hp, in 1 round if she was lucky, or put you -3 on the conditions track minimum, -4 was the usual. Also had some awesome force powers that augmented all of that. I loved that character. A total beast in combat!

[FieserMoep]

Wow, so many responsens!
Thank you people!

I Spoke with my GM and there seems to be no option for "non-armor", he says a Droid has already so many inherent possibilities that we might stay away from such individual house rules from the moment. On the other side he is pretty much open to anything that is one or the other way written down in the Rulebooks.
As I have a carry capacity of 126,75kg I might just take a regular Power Generator from the CR? Or are there ways for minimization? As for actually building stuff into a droid, is the regular guide line "as much as you carry" or is there a limit of what you can build into a medium frame without looking ridiculous or being limited in its function?

What are some general upgrades you would suggest for a droid, aside from being able to fly, shield and the like? Or for weapons? What would be a great side arm to make some use of Riflemaster? I Thought of maybe integrating a concealed Carbine on my Tool appendage in the Case I might not be allowed to carry a Heavy Blaster Rifle into some places.

As for the Indomitable I quite see the potential you people speak of, so I will stick with this one, seems to be the "GO TO" mechanic to simply bypass pure soak to get someone down.

[Tohsaka Rin]

If weight isn't an issue, just shove a regular power generator into yer guts. I didn't often have droid PCs, nor play one myself, on the rare occasion I did get a chance to play, so I mainly built stuff for weak (encumbrance-wise, in comparison) squishies. A regular portable generator will run any of your weapons basically forever.

I'd argue that non-armor benefits any player that doesn't want to invest in armor talents, but still wants access to armor mods, but I can see where your GM is coming from. For the sake of the party, remind your buddies that skinsuits, and shadowsuits exist, if they're not going to wear armor.

As for concealed weaponry, I've got a few tricks. Depends on how much of a ruckus you wanna raise.

Blaster Cannon (main book), strip damage once (3d12 > 3d10), Double-Miniaturize (add the miniaturization mod twice), tech spec an additional slot on, add Cloaked mod.

Net result: Small-sized Blaster Cannon, very concealable (due to Cloaked mod bonuses, and size bonuses vs perception checks to find it) weighs 4.5kg instead of 18kg.

Hooking that up to whatever power generator you have, will basically let you blast all day long. As for keeping it hidden, just stash a few tool kits (which you will obviously make sure look exactly the same as the case your cannon is stashed) inside of your chassis, and claim they're backups. Good luck finding the gun, random NPC.

[FieserMoep]

I spoke with my GM about integrating the Power Generator into my self and he was slightly against it for we game to discuss for how big such a generator actually is.
Given tho that it is just 15kg and SW seems to have same weird scaling going on I was kinda sure it would not be that much in terms of volume?
Also a power generator being classified as a Tool could I just integrate that into my Multifunction apperatus and make it it basically a "docking" station on me that I attach to the magazine slot of weapon or what ever I intend to power up? Given that I have still a free slot in that appendage? Might change the Mesh Tape dispensor for a Securtiy Kit in the Future tho.

As for the concealed Weapon I though of the "Concealed Item" from Scum and Villany (P. 56) where I can actually build the weapon into my frame. I either though of integrating a rifle into my arm (All of them are stabilized so can wield a two handed weapon one handed) or integrate them into the tool appendage to make it like a hidden arm that extends and kinda looks like the over-the-shoulder guns the i. e. the Predators use.

About that my question is what weapons would make sense for such an integration as a compliment to the Heavy Blaster which I doubt, being large, I can integrate into my arm. I though of a carbine, being able to make attacks of opportunity (and brace them due to riflemaster) or a regular blaster to have some sort of an accurate weapon? (IF that is usefull at all?)
That way I could also get around having to rely on a regular blaster as a backup weapon tho he does not benefit from the majority of my feats and talents.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Blaster Carbines are terrific all-around guns as long as you're not trying to snipe someone several encounter-maps over (this hardly ever comes up in SAGA unless you build specifically for it anyway), and always remember the potential of the miniaturized mods. A Small, integrated carbine of some kind could make a great backup to the obvious BFG that is a Heavy Blaster Rifle, and I think that's a very good idea.

Another interesting option is the Microgrenade Launcher (Scum and Villainy50), a Medium weapon that counts as a Rifle. Microgrenades do less damage than regular ones, but that doesn't matter for things like smoke or adhesive grenades. EDIT: Wait I forgot basic grenade launchers are also Medium. +2 to hit from being in your Greater Focused Weapon Group is +2 to hit, though.