Any D6 Star Wars love left?

[baldurkhan]

Star Wars was first published as an RPG by West End games. Well, recently West End was purchased by Nocturnal Studios. Aside from that, have you heard of Star Wars R.E.U.P.? A bunch of fans called Womp Rat Press re-created the original Star Wars D6 game, modernized it, and it looks great! Anyone else see this?

[WesleyVos]

I hadn't seen that, but I'm interested. Have to check this out.

[Water Bob]

I posted a couple of threads about it not so long ago. Tried to spark some interest, but there was not much to go around.

Love, love, love me some D6 Star Wars.

[baldurkhan]

That sucks Water Bob because the work that Womp Rat Press did on Star Wars R.E.U.P. Looks fantastic! It makes me wish that this was an official NEW RPG but that being said, its still a great return for fans of the system.

[Xuc Xac]

i checked it out and it looks impressive, but it seems like they just repeated a lot of mistakes from the past. It's a complete missed opportunity to clean up a lot of stupid mistakes that were revealed after a couple decades of hindsight.

[hifidelity2]

I DM the D6 - using the revised rules - I have not yet looked at in detail the R.E.U.P but wioll do so as starting with a new group and could do that version instead

I like the D6 as its fast and lose and gives the feel of the game

[LibraryOgre]

REUP wasn't meant to fix things, partially because no one would agree on what needs fixing.

EDIT: A little more, since I have time.

I enjoy the system, and think it holds up pretty well through the years. It has a lot of flexibility, while being pretty easy to improvise in.

[baldurkhan]

What needed fixing? Forgive me, but I haven't had a lot of experience using D6. I have however been interested but never found a group that used it. I would have loved to play some Star Wars (or something akin to it) using the D6 system.

[Knaight]

What needed fixing? Forgive me, but I haven't had a lot of experience using D6. I have however been interested but never found a group that used it. I would have loved to play some Star Wars (or something akin to it) using the D6 system.

The most infamous case is the blaster-proof wookie problem, but it's one of a fair few. REUP was a preservation project though, not a new edition provided by fans. If there is later a new edition provided by fans, it will be an extremely useful starting point though, as it is for homebrewing.

[Xuc Xac]

The one that always bothered me (and which I checked first when skimming through REUP) was the Brawling specialization in martial arts. Other specializations are more limited than the base skill. If you have a space transports specialization in flying YT-1300s, then you can only use that higher, but cheaper, skill rating to fly that one type of ship. But Brawling: Martial Arts does everything that Brawling alone does, at a reduced cost because it's a specialization, and it has extra bonus effects. It's like taking a Blaster specialization in "shooting blasters". It's not a specialization, that's just what the skill does! Martial arts as it is should be an advanced skill based on brawling (like engineering is based on repair, or medicine is based on first aid).

And in general, there are just too many skills. They subdivided things too finely. Swoop Operation and Speederbike Operation are separate skills because the engines are different even though they are both effectively hovering motorcycles. It's like saying you can't drive a hybrid electric car with your regular internal combustion engine car training. Brawling and Brawling Parry are separate skills. Melee Combat and Melee Parry are two separate skills. Why not just make them one skill and offer the option of specializing in attack or defense if you want to focus on one? Why do you need two separate skills for jet packs and rocket packs? And separate repair skills for every vehicle and piece of equipment?

This leads to ridiculous things like Luke has no space piloting experience whatsoever, but he can fly an X-wing pretty well because by an amazing coincidence, the X-Wing and the T-16 airspeeder that Luke flew at home just so happen to have identical controls. It couldn't just be that a good pilot is a good pilot, especially in a universe where starfighters in space move just like planes in air. Does anyone in any Star Wars movie ever give any indication that flying in the air is any different than flying in space? Or that flying a shuttle is different than flying a fighter or a transport? Some might be more difficult to maneuver, but that's why they have different bonuses to maneuver them. There should only be 3 piloting skills: Drive (for things that skim along the ground), Pilot (for air and space vehicles), and Crew (for big things like capitol ships where controlling them isn't done by one guy with a joystick).

In Star Wars, a good pilot should be able to jump into anything and fly it. The particular model of ship you're flying should matter about as much as the color of the paint job.

[LibraryOgre]

To an extent, a good pilot is a good pilot in SW d6... depending on how you stat them up.

If you have someone with a 4D in Mechanical (an attribute), they are just as good of a pilot as someone with 4D in Space Transports, 4D in Swoop Operation, and 4D in whateverskillyoucaretoname. However, they wind up suffering in other areas because they split their 18D in such a way that they put 4D into Mechanical.

OTOH, let's say that someone with 4D in Mechanical wants to improve his Space Transports skill... he spends 4 CP to improve it to 4D+1... same as the guy who just had 2D Mechanical, and 4D Space TRansports.

[baldurkhan]

Not having had a lot of experience using D6, these points make me think about it more and that is awesome. By chance, has anyone here done a full write up of the rules corrections / house rules that they used and or used for the D6 System? If so, I would love to see it / them.

[Water Bob]

i checked it out and it looks impressive, but it seems like they just repeated a lot of mistakes from the past. It's a complete missed opportunity to clean up a lot of stupid mistakes that were revealed after a couple decades of hindsight.

What is it you dislike?

I like all editions of D6 Star Wars, but First Edition has a special place in my heart. I find that it is so stripped down that it doesn't have any issue that some of the later editions are sometimes perceived to have.

[LibraryOgre]

Not having had a lot of experience using D6, these points make me think about it more and that is awesome. By chance, has anyone here done a full write up of the rules corrections / house rules that they used and or used for the D6 System? If so, I would love to see it / them.

You might check Drivethru RPG; WEG's d6 Space is essentially "Star Wars with the serial numbers slightly obscured", and useful for getting used to the system and some of the changes made. For example, in core 2eR&E, a Wookie punch does as much damage as a repeating blaster, and they get no advantage from using a knife. In d6 Space, brawling damage was readdressed, and wookies can no longer effectively batter starships to death.

[Water Bob]

It sounds like First Edition is the one for you. It will eliminate a lot of your issues.




The one that always bothered me (and which I checked first when skimming through REUP) was the Brawling specialization in martial arts.

There is no specialization in First Edition.




And in general, there are just too many skills.

First Edition has a leaner skills list.




They subdivided things too finely. Swoop Operation and Speederbike Operation are separate skills because the engines are different even though they are both effectively hovering motorcycles.

Yeah, in First Edition, you've got Repulsorlift Op, used for all speeders (air and land), and you've got Starship Piloting, used for all types of starships. The X-Wing uses the same skill as flying the Falcon.




Take a look at First Edition. Take a look at THIS THREAD (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?488227-D6-star-wars-first-edition-revised), too. (Though, I will say, that I like the real First Edition better than the "cleaned up" version of First Edition that you'll find through that link.)

That's probably the game for you. Quick, swashbuckling, Star Wars action.

[ohil]

played it for years love this sytem.

[Water Bob]

The most infamous case is the blaster-proof wookie problem, but it's one of a fair few.

It's not as much of a problem with First Edition because there are no Character Points in that edition.

The SpecOps book came out with an optional rule that suits the "wookiee probelm" well. A character can take any number of dice off of his attack throw and add those dice to damage, if he hits. This makes the game extremely deadly, Wookiee or no Wookiee.

Wookiees should be hard to kill. I like the balance in First Edition.

[baldurkhan]

I downloaded what was provided above through the link and wanted to say thank you. I added those to my collection.

[Mutazoia]

It's not as much of a problem with First Edition because there are no Character Points in that edition.

The SpecOps book came out with an optional rule that suits the "wookiee probelm" well. A character can take any number of dice off of his attack throw and add those dice to damage, if he hits. This makes the game extremely deadly, Wookiee or no Wookiee.

Wookiees should be hard to kill. I like the balance in First Edition.

The "wookiee problem" wasn't as big of a problem as people seem to make it out to be. Sure...a Wookiee rolls 5D to resist damage, and the average blaster pistol only does 4D. But Heavy Blaster Pistols, Blaster Carbines (which is what Stormtroopers use...not blaster pistols, at least in the movie) and Blaster Rifles all do 5D damage. And that's before you get into the improvement and modification rules. According to the game, Han Solo's heavy blaster pistol does 9D damage, which is why you see it blowing chunks out of the Mos Eisley spaceport wall.

[Water Bob]

The "wookiee problem" wasn't as big of a problem as people seem to make it out to be. Sure...a Wookiee rolls 5D to resist damage, and the average blaster pistol only does 4D. But Heavy Blaster Pistols, Blaster Carbines (which is what Stormtroopers use...not blaster pistols, at least in the movie) and Blaster Rifles all do 5D damage. And that's before you get into the improvement and modification rules. According to the game, Han Solo's heavy blaster pistol does 9D damage, which is why you see it blowing chunks out of the Mos Eisley spaceport wall.

I think the "wookiee problem" became more prevalent when Character Points were brought into the game in Second Edition. IIRC, you can add 4D in CPs to a defense throw.

Han Solo's blaster doesn't do 9D damage. It does 5D damage. Han Solo, though, has 9D+1 in his Blaster Skill in Second Edition.

[hifidelity2]

I think the "wookiee problem" became more prevalent when Character Points were brought into the game in Second Edition. IIRC, you can add 4D in CPs to a defence throw.



By if the PC uses up all of his character points then he will not increase in skills

I have had no problems with the wookie in past games - although I will fudge in that if the party are facing a number of enemies the one with the biggest gun will shoot at the wookie - well the wookie looks the biggest , meanest so its sort of natural that he would be targeted :smallbiggrin:

[Mutazoia]

I think the "wookiee problem" became more prevalent when Character Points were brought into the game in Second Edition. IIRC, you can add 4D in CPs to a defense throw.

Han Solo's blaster doesn't do 9D damage. It does 5D damage. Han Solo, though, has 9D+1 in his Blaster Skill in Second Edition.

While I remember reading the heavily modified version somewhere, I can't find it ATM. However, most of the source books I have checked so far have his Heavy Blaster Pistol listed as "modified" and doing 5D+2, so still doing more than the average amount of damage.

[LibraryOgre]

You roll your Strength to resist damage; Wookies can have up to a 6D strength.

In theory, a Wookie can "catch" a lightsaber (base 5D) without damage.

[Mutazoia]

You roll your Strength to resist damage; Wookies can have up to a 6D strength.

In theory, a Wookie can "catch" a lightsaber (base 5D) without damage.

But a Jedi adds his Control dice to his lightsaber damage, so unless a non-jedi shmuck gets his hands on one, the odds of that happening are extremely low.

Also, in order for a Wookiee to get a 6d Strength, he/she would have to drop another score by 1D, and they don't have a lot to choose from when doing that.

Besides, any half way decent GM would rule that trying to catch a blade of pure energy, that can slice through blast doors, would be an instant hand loss, no matter what you rolled to resist the damage.

[hifidelity2]

You roll your Strength to resist damage; Wookies can have up to a 6D strength.

In theory, a Wookie can "catch" a lightsaber (base 5D) without damage.

House rule is I restrict them to 5D and anyway iof they used 6D in STR then they would be so bad at other skills as to be a very one dimensional character - while my SW games have a lot of running / shooting they have just as much space ship running / shooting and a reasonable amount of PC /NPC interaction

[LibraryOgre]

But a Jedi adds his Control dice to his lightsaber damage, so unless a non-jedi shmuck gets his hands on one, the odds of that happening are extremely low.

A Jedi, with the Lightsaber Combat power up, gets to add his control dice -2D (multiple action penalty, since LC is both a Control and Alter skill), to Lightsaber damage. Becomes more of an issue when you're facing high level characters.


Also, in order for a Wookiee to get a 6d Strength, he/she would have to drop another score by 1D, and they don't have a lot to choose from when doing that.

Doesn't prevent most wookies I've seen played from going for the gold ring.


Besides, any half way decent GM would rule that trying to catch a blade of pure energy, that can slice through blast doors, would be an instant hand loss, no matter what you rolled to resist the damage.

Just because it can be fixed by a decent GM doesn't mean there isn't a design problem.

[Xuc Xac]

House rule is I restrict them to 5D and anyway iof they used 6D in STR then they would be so bad at other skills as to be a very one dimensional character - while my SW games have a lot of running / shooting they have just as much space ship running / shooting and a reasonable amount of PC /NPC interaction

It's a wookiee. They don't really have other dimensions. Taking 1D from their talky skills to boost their strength isn't what's going to stop them from participating in "PC/NPC interaction". They can't talk. Chewbacca can't even pronounce his own name. If he didn't have Peter Mayhew's eyes and body language, he'd be less expressive than an R2 unit. People don't play wookiees to be multifaceted characters with various hobbies and technical specialties. They just want to rip arms off droids and make noises like a gargling bear.

[Water Bob]

In theory, a Wookie can "catch" a lightsaber (base 5D) without damage.

By the rules, the lightsaber would do 5D damage per combat round. So the wookiee would have his hands burned off in no time. The wook could just smoke a little longer than others.




It's a wookiee. They don't really have other dimensions.

Chewbacca is supposed to be a hell of a starship repair person. Han's more the pilot. Chewbacca is more the mechanic. This means Chewbacca, at least, has a high Technical score as well as high STR.

[hifidelity2]

Chewbacca is supposed to be a hell of a starship repair person. Han's more the pilot. Chewbacca is more the mechanic. This means Chewbacca, at least, has a high Technical score as well as high STR.
+1 - in my game the wookie is the 2nd pilot & the main engineer

[lt_murgen]

I loved the Star Wars D6 system so much I am running a Fantasy D6 game just to keep the system.

Using the body points option in that system fixes the wookiee problem. They use their Strength (Physique) to generate their body points and then take damage to them. BUt they get to roll against their strength to ignore the effect of wounds. So while they are getting hurt, it doesn't slow them down until the end.

Yes, there are difficulties between Ability - skill - specialization that could use some cleanup. Fantasy D6 does a decent job of fixing that, and I think Space D6 carries most of that over.

[hifidelity2]

Hope to start my D6 Star Wars in the next couple of weeks :smallbiggrin:

I will start the PC's in jail for having incomplete papers (i.e. not paying the right bribes)

[Janwin]

I have the books and love the system, but sadly I can never seem to convince anyone else to try it.

EotE is far too popular now-a-days to really be able to sell d6.

[Anonymouswizard]

I don't own Star Wars d6 but I do own d6Space (as well as D6Fantasy and D6Adventure), which seems to be a cleaned up version (ForceMetaphysics isn't as hard to get high scores in and the skill list is reduced). I like it enough that I hope to use one of the variants for my next game. I didn't really like Edge of the Empire, so this might be the game that gets me running Star Wars.

I'm not 100% sold on the Wild die, it makes 'critical failures' happen 1/6 of the time and is the only die that explodes, but a critical failure doesn't look as horrible as it is in some systems (just lose the highest die rolled) so I'll see how it works in practice.

[Xuc Xac]

I'm not 100% sold on the Wild die, it makes 'critical failures' happen 1/6 of the time and is the only die that explodes, but a critical failure doesn't look as horrible as it is in some systems (just lose the highest die rolled) so I'll see how it works in practice.

Sometimes you lose a die. And sometimes you keep all the dice and add them up normally, but there's a complication ("Yea! You didn't crash the ship and kill everyone, but you did snap off your sensor dish, so you'll have a penalty to sensor rolls until you replace it.")

[Mutazoia]

I'm not 100% sold on the Wild die, it makes 'critical failures' happen 1/6 of the time and is the only die that explodes, but a critical failure doesn't look as horrible as it is in some systems (just lose the highest die rolled) so I'll see how it works in practice.

I usually explain the wild die like this: You can succeed at something, but have an unintended bad side effect, or you can fail at something, but still manage to accidentally do something pretty cool.

Luke and Leia are running down the corridors of the Death Star, being chased by Stormtroopers. They run through a door and stop short as the floor ends....the bridge across the gap is not extended. With blaster bolts flying around their heads, Luke closes the door behind them. Unfamiliar with the Imperial controls, he makes a security roll to see if he can figure out how to lock the door and fails. With the Stormtroopers seconds away from opening the door he decides to blast the controls. It's an easy shot, which he succeeds, but gets a 1 on his wild die. The controls are fried. "Quick! Find the controls that extend the bridge!" cries Leia. When Luke looks, he realizes that the controls for the door, and the controls for the bridge were one in the same. "I think I just blasted them....."

Or

Han and Chewie are fighting off Jabba's guards on the hover skiff. Han's still mostly blind from the carbonite freezing so he's sucking major dice penalties to hit anything. He's managed to get a force pike away from one of the guards, and takes a swing at him. He makes his attack roll and misses, but his wild die comes up a six and again with a 4. His attack on the guard in front of him misses, but as he recovers from the swing he accidentally smacks Boba Fett right in the jet pack, causing it to miss-fire, sending the luckless bounty hunter careening wildly through the air, to slam against the side of Jabba's sail barge.

[hifidelity2]

I'm not 100% sold on the Wild die, it makes 'critical failures' happen 1/6 of the time and is the only die that explodes, but a critical failure doesn't look as horrible as it is in some systems (just lose the highest die rolled) so I'll see how it works in practice.

Within the rules (might be only in Second ED, Revised) you have the option to
- Add the die normally but add complication
- Ignore the 1
- subtract the 1 and remove the highest Die

I tend to do what is best for the story (it would be unfair to kill the whole party because the pilot was unlucky) and the stress of the situation.
Also the severity of the complication if also up to the DM - from very minor to more serious (and probably expensive / a good plot hook)

[LibraryOgre]

Within the rules (might be only in Second ED, Revised) you have the option to
- Add the die normally but add complication
- Ignore the 1
- subtract the 1 and remove the highest Die


My personal rule was that the wild die, on a 1, always removed the highest die. If you still succeeded, you got a complication. If losing the die made you fail, it was a simple fail. If you were failing ANYWAY, then it got bad.

Still succeed: Yes, But
Fail because of the lost die: No.
Fail with or without the die: No, and.

[Blue Duke]

i tend to always go with 'something funny happens' when the wild Die hits 1....and one of my players (the one playing the trandoshan oddly) always seems to get a one wild when chargeing leading to the character being face down on the ground or slipping on something during a fight....i had have a good one come up where one player had to leave for work mid combat and rolled a one on their wild for an attack....took out a cat walk that took out their target and smacked them out of the warehouse (and THEY were the medic!).

[LibraryOgre]

For my own amusement, I converted the VF-1A Valkyrie (from Robotech) to Star Wars d6.

Here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?497790-VF-1A-Valkyrie-Veritech-in-Star-Wars-D6-because-I-m-worth-it)

[Anonymouswizard]

Sometimes you lose a die. And sometimes you keep all the dice and add them up normally, but there's a complication ("Yea! You didn't crash the ship and kill everyone, but you did snap off your sensor dish, so you'll have a penalty to sensor rolls until you replace it.")


Within the rules (might be only in Second ED, Revised) you have the option to
- Add the die normally but add complication
- Ignore the 1
- subtract the 1 and remove the highest Die

I tend to do what is best for the story (it would be unfair to kill the whole party because the pilot was unlucky) and the stress of the situation.
Also the severity of the complication if also up to the DM - from very minor to more serious (and probably expensive / a good plot hook)

Oh, I get that there's two options, but it seems like it'll be annoying to decide which makes more sense on a case-by-case basis, so I'll likely end up defaulting to the 'subtract the highest die' version (all the more reason to bring up those skills on the lowest stat to 3D :smallamused:). To me the complications are more what failing at a roll is, because having a TPK because the pilot rolled a 0 while trying to take off or something is just silly.

Although I do like the idea of the houserule Mark Hall uses.

Also, does anybody know where to find a decent list of premade Force/Metaphysics powers and/or Spells and Miracles? (apart from the unfinished magic supplement) I'm seriously considering running one of the free d6 games, but I just don't have the time to prep a decent list and don't play with players with the dedication to build their own (ships and monsters I'm better with, as I can just design the ones I need as the adventure requires).