Paladin, Bard, Both?

[Laserlight]

I've just finished a campaign as a AoE blaster sorcerer, and we'll be starting at Level 3 in Princes of the Apocalypse next week. I figure we need a face and a skillmonkey, so I'm leaning toward Lore Bard; but with only three of us, I'm afraid we'll be a little short on damage, and I'm wondering about going Paladin instead. Or multiclass them, in which case, what order of which?

Right now the other two PCs are a cleric of Bahamut and an archer of sort, possibly EK.

Stats rolled are 17 17 14 13 13 8. DM requests no sorcerers. Note: we'll be getting ASI at every fourth character level, not class level.

[Easy_Lee]

Bards are skill monkeys. Paladins really aren't. Unless someone else is going that route, you're probably best off with bard.

However, that depends on the campaign. In some campaigns, Dwarven lockpicks and moderate stealth will get you through just about everything typically designed for skill monkeys.

[Specter]

One level of Bard wouldn't hurt either way, for Inspiration and social spells (like Disguise Self). And a bonus skill.

[Laserlight]

Bards are skill monkeys. Paladins really aren't. Unless someone else is going that route, you're probably best off with bard.

As a paladin, I'd take a couple of social skills, which are the one we'll need most. My lockpicking skills would likely involve a crowbar.

[Daishain]

Since ASIs are decoupled from class levels, L3 Lore Bard L11 Paladin would serve your intended purposes very well.

However, since you won't be getting that high in level, a good second option would be straight Valor Bard, no MCing. You could also drop the skill monkey request and go straight pally, they do make decent party faces.

[Casualoblivion]

Bard is a very strong and well made class, probably the best in 5E overall. They are fantastic at support, and do just about everything well aside from damage. A two level dip into Paladin(or Warlock), and the Bard suddenly excels at damage as well.

Paladin is probably my favorite of all the weapon users. Heavy armor, solid DPR with smite and a bag of tricks. Oath of Vengence is the best of them. The Paladin has three break points, level 2 gets you Smite, level 6 gets you the +Cha to saves aura, and level 11 gets you +1d8 damage on all weapon attacks. Switching to Bard after any of those levels gives you a lot more spell slots to power your smite.

[TheFlyingCleric]

May I suggest rogue?

Like Bard's they have Expertise and many skill proficiencies. Additionally, sneak attack and cunning action makes them very effective in combat.
With your rolls, you can make a rogue with good DEX, CON, and also CHA, letting them act very well as a party face (with the help of skill proficiencies).

Also, you can open doors in a way that enables them to still be closed afterwards, hehe.

[Skylivedk]

I've just finished a campaign as a AoE blaster sorcerer, and we'll be starting at Level 3 in Princes of the Apocalypse next week. I figure we need a face and a skillmonkey, so I'm leaning toward Lore Bard; but with only three of us, I'm afraid we'll be a little short on damage, and I'm wondering about going Paladin instead. Or multiclass them, in which case, what order of which?

Right now the other two PCs are a cleric of Bahamut and an archer of sort, possibly EK.

Stats rolled are 17 17 14 13 13 8. DM requests no sorcerers. Note: we'll be getting ASI at every fourth character level, not class level.

First paladin for heavy armour prof, then lore bard for expertise and smite slots. Sorry, meant spells 😉 more seriously: the bard list is mostly lacking direct damage, so smite conversions are nifty. I recommend pala 2 or 6 / bard X. Could be played as a real boy band / pretty boy kinda fella

[Laserlight]

May I suggest rogue?

Like Bard's they have Expertise and many skill proficiencies. Additionally, sneak attack and cunning action makes them very effective in combat.
With your rolls, you can make a rogue with good DEX, CON, and also CHA, letting them act very well as a party face (with the help of skill proficiencies).

Also, you can open doors in a way that enables them to still be closed afterwards, hehe.

High elf swashbuckler with booming blade is looking good.

[TheFlyingCleric]

Booming Blade + Cunning action disengage... that's really good against melee enemies. A really good control effect (on pain of double damage), if it hits. It doesn't even need you to have a good INT stat.

Note there are other good ways of gaining the cantrip than high elf. There's magic initiate; Sorcerer or Wizard. However, since your DM has taken away one of the penalties of multiclassing (ASI delay), it may be better to instead dip a single level of Wizard, Warlock or Sorcerer. You get more cantrips, and you get to cast more spells more often.

- Sorcerer gives you four cantrips, two spells that you cannot change, and Draconic Bloodline gives you better AC than light armor (13 + DEX) and +1 max hp per level. I don't know the nature of your DM's 'sorcerer ban' but perhaps there's an exception to level 1 dips?
- Wizard gives you three cantrips, and a spell book with 6 spells. You can prepare any 1 spell each day (if you use the 8 for INT, more if you use the 13), and cast the other spells as rituals. You can also regenerate a spell slot when you take a short rest. Oh yeah, and you get find familiar. Other rogues will be jealous of your ability to always sneak attack.
- Warlock gives you two cantrips from a shorter list, two spells that you cannot change, one spell slot per short rest, and an otherworldly patron. If you like the idea of short range telepathic communication, just sell your sell to a Great Old One. A second level might be good for the invocations; Devil's sight gives you amazing Darkvision, beguiling influence gives you an additional two proficiencies in Charisma skills (the skills you want as it happens).

Best of all, you can take a different race. Half-Elf, for example, will get let you boost two skills (DEX and CON) up to 18 and another (CHA) to 16. It also nets you two skills of your choice (Elves only get one).

[djreynolds]

I need an image, a concept.

Are you a protector of ancient artifacts, or libraries, or temples? Searching them out to protect them from looters?

A warrior poet perhaps?

You have the stats to go rogue, bard, paladin, go for it then. You have the stats to make it work, and I would love to see this build.

But a good concept, like the ones in the thread about cinematic whatever has great stuff.

So a good concept then, and there the forum members can help chisel it.

[Sillybird99]

Half elf gets you 18 str/dex 18 con and 16 cha which is very solid for a paladin. Unfortunately paladins are not much in the way of utility or skills, but a dip in rogue or bard could fix that. Rogue bard MC is also a solid option taking faerie fire to give advantage for sneak attack and tons of skills with expertise.

[Specter]

High elf swashbuckler with booming blade is looking good.

So, no more Bard?

Anyway, here's how Bard breaks down:

1-Bonus spells, good spell slots, 2 cantrips, Bardic Inspiration AND a bonus skill all scream 'take me'.
2-Jack of All Trades is good, but not great for you (mostly for initiative). Song of Rest makes your party tougher in longer days, which might be what you need.
3-Expertise should go to Persuasion and Insight for you to be a good party face. As for the colleges, Valor gives you very little since you already have all those proficiencies, so go Lore for 3 skills or tools of your choice. Level 2 spells and more spell slots also come here, and boy is the selection good.

After that, pally up.

[MrStabby]

So I would probably go paladin 2, bard 1, then paladin to 6 then bard (lore) to 6.

Paladin 2 gets the spellcasting, bard 1 gets the character flavour in early. Paladin 3 gets the AS I. By level 7 you are still a paladin mainly but a good bard flavour.
Bard 2 can use ASI for shield master.
Bard 3 gets you expertise, use for athletics for shoves and grapples and a social skill.
Bard 6 gives you counterspell, dispel magic etc. Which is superb with Jack of all trades.

Beyond that, you can do what you fancy. Fighter, more bard, more paladin ...

[Laserlight]

It appears that Swashbuckler lets me have more damage than a bard and more skills than a pally, and enough AC to get by. I don't need to use my bonus to Disengage so I can use it to TWF, and Booming Blade means that when I back away, they don't just come running after me.

Tauralethon Iron-Hand, Level 3 Swashbuckler, SCAG variant half elf

STR 8 DEX 18 CON 14 INT 13 WIS 14 CHA 19
Trained skills: Acrobatics Deception Insight Perception Persuasion Stealth--expertise in Perception, Stealth
Cantrip: booming blade

Usual attack with paired yataghan knives (shortswords) is +6 to hit, 1d6 piercing + 4 DEX + 2d6 sneak + booming blade, and if I have a bonus action available, TWF for another 1d6 damage. Ranged is hand crossbow, +6 to hit, 1d6 piercing + 4 DEX and sneak attack if applicable. AC16 from studded leather.

Tauralethon's mother was a human riverboat merchant/woman of negotiable affection who had a liaison with a high elf. They both thought of the resulting son as an inconvenience--"I love him, sure, but I have to, YET AGAIN, find someone to watch the kid while I study magic/hit the bars"--so they passed him back and forth between them. During the interludes with his father, he learned the elvish language and the punctilious courtesy required to operate in elvish society. His father also tried to teach him magic, as is expected of any high elf, but Taur wouldn't focus; he saw the immediate practical application for Booming Blade, but never studied the theory and could barely even manage Prestidigitation as a ritual (note the lack of Arcana skill). The other students dubbed him "Iron Hand". That's not a complement--it implies inability to work magic, impulsiveness, and solving things through direct force rather than subtlety. When his mother tried to extract more money from his father, the father, embarrassed and exasperated, dashed off a brief note to the effect of "I'm done with this kid, this whole relationship was a mistake, don't come back" (it was actually a four hundred line poem about morning fog over water, filled with literary allusions, but from a high elf, that's bitingly terse). The next few years were about what you would expect from a handsome, exotic young man who travels constantly, whose father is absent and disapproving and whose mother will do anything for a gold piece, and who spends much of his time among the thieves' dens, brothels customs houses and merchant guilds on the riverside docks. Eventually he met a merchant couple who were Harper agents, and they decided this charming young sociopathic bravo would make an outstanding recruit. They initiated a menage a trois and eventually asked Taur: "Would you like to do something with your life that will make a difference? " Since then he's been a Harper agent, although whether from agreement with the Harper philosophy or merely desire for his mentors' approval is open to question.

[Saeviomage]

Usual attack with paired yataghan knives (shortswords) is +6 to hit, 1d6 piercing + 4 DEX + 2d6 sneak + booming blade, and if I have a bonus action available, TWF for another 1d6 damage. Ranged is hand crossbow, +6 to hit, 1d6 piercing + 4 DEX and sneak attack if applicable. AC16 from studded leather.

You can't booming blade and twf. Booming blade is not the attack action.

[Laserlight]

You can't booming blade and twf. Booming blade is not the attack action.

I think the DM will probably not make that distinction. If she does, I suppose I could substitute Guidance or Resistance and not worry about TWF--it's there mainly so if I miss the first attack, I can still have a shot at landing Sneak Attack.

[TheFlyingCleric]

I think the DM will probably not make that distinction. If she does, I suppose I could substitute Guidance or Resistance and not worry about TWF--it's there mainly so if I miss the first attack, I can still have a shot at landing Sneak Attack.

The rules are quite clear on this. Booming Blade is not an attack action, so you can't make an offhand weapon attack.

Booming blade is quite weak early on in the game (only 1d8 Thunder damage if they move), but becomes much better once you reach character level 5. Especially at level 1, because you don't have cunning action or any of the other features that let you move away from your enemies after hitting them.
It's more optimal to take the cantrip later on, through one of the methods suggested, and use two weapons for combat until then. This will also give you two extra skills, which in my opinion is better than a single cantrip (especially in your role as party face).

Do what you like though. This is 5th edition; it's very difficult to make a bad character if you can play them well.