Paladin + Champion of Corellon Larethian?

[Palanan]

I've never tried a Champion of Corellon Larethian before, and I wondered how it would work with the PF paladin. The feat requirements are pure tax, but Paladin 7 could meet them easily, and dex-to-damage seems tempting.

Would CoCL be worthwhile on a PF paladin, and are there any archetypes which would synergize well?

[Florian]

Considering that Dex2Dmg is cheap in PF...

[Drelua]

As far as archetypes, anything that replaces spellcasting is probably not a bad idea; there are some good 1st level Paladin spells, but since CoCL doesn't advance casting, it's not going to be that useful at higher levels. Tempered Champion gets you a bonus feat instead of casting, but it comes from a pretty short list; weapon focus is on there, but if I'm reading the pre-reqs right, you don't need WF if you're proficient with elven weapons, which is pretty easy. Warrior of the Holy Light isn't bad, your party sure won't mind the morale bonuses, which you can grant for probably an entire encounter for just one LoH use. Hospitaler and Oath of Charity are both good options if you want to be a healer. On the other hand, Oath of Vengeance if a good way to get more smites per day. You'll want weapon familiarity to save you a feat, which I think half-elves can trade something out to get. Or just take the exotic weapon proficiency, but familiarity is better since it gets you the lightblade and the thinblade, which you'll probably be using if you TWF.

Since you'll be DEX-based, TWFing will probably work pretty well; with PF's smite applying to every attack, getting more attacks is always a good idea. For converting CoCL to PF, I'd recommend making their healing ability work the same way as the PF Paladin's LoH, and having levels stack for the ability. If they stack, Hospitaler and Oath of Charity work a lot better. If not, Oath of Vengeance gets better since the healing won't scale and you'll be able to get at least 2-3 more smites per day out of it. Oh, and you'll want either Bracers of the Avenging or Merciful Knight, depending on which way you build your character.

Just a few things off the top of my head, hope some of it's useful. :smallsmile:

[Red Fel]

Would CoCL be worthwhile on a PF paladin, and are there any archetypes which would synergize well?

I won't address the second one, but I'll go after the first. And my first instinct is to say, "No, CoCL would not be worthwhile on a PF Paladin."

Let's start from two facts. First, CoCL isn't that good a class on its own. Second, it's not worthwhile on a 3.5 Paladin, let alone PF.

Let's look at what CoCL actually gives you:
Lay on Hands. Stacks with the Paladin ability.
Four bonus feats from the Fighter list, with limitations.
Dex to damage with certain weapons.
Increased max Dex bonus in armor.
No speed penalty in heavy armor.
A Smite ability.
A Paladin would normally get Smites and Lay on Hands, so he's not gaining anything there. Bonus feats, that's cute; there's a feat-based Paladin that gives up spellcasting (which this does also) for Fighter feats. So really, all that a 3.5 Paladin gets from this class are Dex to damage, increased max Dex bonus, and no speed penalty in heavy armor.

Now let's look at the PF Paladin. Again, let's set aside Lay on Hands and Smite, because he gets those without the PrC. As for the feats, PF characters get feats at every odd level, instead of every third level. So the PF character gets 10 feats just by merit of leveling, while the 3.5 gets 7. That means the PF Paladin already has three more feats than the 3.5 Paladin, without restrictions. So CoCL's bonus feats aren't that valuable either.

Which leaves us, once again, with Dex to damage, increased max Dex bonus, and no speed penalty in heavy armor. With respect to Dex to damage, there are a number of feats that substitute Dex for Str to damage. There's also the Agile weapon enhancement, which lets you do so with any finessable weapon and doesn't cost a feat slot. Yes, that's substitute, not add, so it's not as strong as CoCL, but let's be honest, do you want to make your character even more MAD?

Max Dex bonus? Well, basically, you want special materials there.

Speed penalty in heavy armor? There's a spell for that: Effortless Armor (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/effortless-armor). And yes, Paladins get it. And if you really want it on armor, you can get it for (I think) about 24,000 gp. Alternatively, buy a pair of Boots of Striding and Springing (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/boots-of-striding-and-springing) and offset the penalty.

Why exactly do you want this PrC, again?

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Drelua
Just a few things off the top of my head, hope some of it's useful.

Very helpful indeed, thank you.

[Psyren]

I'm with Red Fel and Florian - you can replace this entire PrC with your pocketbook, and in doing so keep progressing all your existing feats, FCBs, spells, mercies, smite, and auras. It's just not worth what you lose.

[Drelua]

Hm, I never really stopped to think about how good this combo would be. The other people are kind of right, you're really not getting a tonne from the prestige class. You might be better off just using Slashing Grace or Dervish Dance or something, you'll be saving feats in the long run. A dip in swashbuckler would be fun, I've toyed with the idea of playing a swashadin before. There's charisma synergy and a nice easy way to get dexterity to both attack and damage, potentially as early as level 1. You'd basically be dependent on two stats, and when you're smiting you'd get both to damage. Inspired Blade might be worth considering, you'd be stuck with rapiers, but that works pretty well with the elven flavour.

Or, you know, just take my earlier advice and have fun.

[Florian]

Well, from a PF-Paladin POV, the CoCL is simply a pure downgrade in every way.
Let´s not forget that you actually don´t want to make STR your dump-stat as you still got to carry around a lot of hardware (and it is, frankly, shameful for a fighting class to keel over when hit with one Ray of Enfeeblement or run away from simple Shadows).
Paladin spellcasting has also become a viable thing with some very powerful options, like the slew of swift-cast litanies. I would´t want to miss those.
The speed reduction with heavier armor also is kind of a non-issue when going for a DEX-based build. You´ll want to start with Elven Chainmail and upgrade to Celestial Armor later on, to keep up with max DEX anyways.

Build-wise, the "Elven" Paladin is a bog-standard Archer Paladin, either with Weapon Finesse/Fencing Grace or one level of Swashbuckler (and Fencing Grace) thrown into the mix, and can also be done as a regular Life-Oradin.

The only thing I see in favor of the CoCL is the ability to wield an Elven Courtblade.

[Red Fel]

Frankly, if you want to take a Paladin in a "divine champion" direction and weaponize a non-Str stat, there's already a class for that: the Champion of Irori (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/c-d/champion-of-the-enlightened). While it does cut off your Paladin spellcasting, it advances smites. It also advances Monk ki points. And with the optimal selection of feats and gear, you can basically convert your Paladin's MAD down to two stats - Cha and Wis. It's very easy to optimize a character around two stats, and a CoI can basically designate a Chaotic and/or Evil target as "You're going down now" and mean it.

You're not getting Dex to damage, but you're getting results.