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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next (Another) Shieldbash feat



Feuerphoenix
2016-06-04, 10:09 PM
Hey guys,

recently I was thinking about a feat, designed to give more aggressive defenders a very nice opportunity to augment their style.



Agressive Defender

You learned that your shield is more than just a big piece of metal or wood, but also, how you can protect your companions.

•When a creature you can see attacks a target other than you that is within 5 feet of you, you can use your reaction to impose disadvantage on all incoming attacks against that target until your next turn. This bonus only applies as long as you are within 5 feet of the target. You must be wielding a shield."

•you may use your bonus action, to attack with your shield, if you chose the attack option this turn On a hit, the character takes 1d4 bludgeoning damage. You are proficient with this shield, and any non mundane shield overcomes non-magical resistances. This takes away your shield bonus until the start of your next turn. You may use your reaction to regain the shield's AC at the end of your turn.


What do you think? Too greedy?
Agressive Defender

You learned that your shield is more than just a big piece of metal or wood, but also, how you can protect your companions.

•you learn the protection fighting style, if you don't know it already. You can use it on a friendly character, to impose disadvantage to all incoming attacks, als long as you stay within 5 feet. In addition, add up to half of your shield's AC (rounded up) to the chosen character.
•you may use your bonus action, to attack with your shield, if you chose the attack option this turn On a hit, the character takes 1d6 bludgeoning damage. Your shield is a weapon during this attack only, and you apply all modifications to attack and damage rolls. If your shield is +x, treat it as a +x magical weapon for the attack.

zeek0
2016-06-05, 01:18 AM
Hey! I like adding more options, so shieldbash is a great idea to flesh out.

Here's my thoughts:

The first part:

This encourages characters to take a different fighting style, if they know that later they will take this feat. And it will discourage those that took the protection fighting style from choosing this feat, because part of what they have is wrapped up in the feat. I would recommend not having this tied up with the protection fighting style.
Visually, I don't know how the protector can provide the bonus to the character if they are on opposite side of their ally from the enemy.
Does this require an action or bonus action? If it requires a reaction, what is the requirement for the reaction (all reactions have requirements).
How many allies can you use this on? It says that they retain the bonus as long as you remain within 5 feet.
Adding 1/2 your shield AC will usually only provide 1 AC for your ally.
[I think that a bonus action would be good for this bit. It means that you have to expend some limited resource, and you have to choose between using this ability and the second bullet.


The second part:
I like it. It is convoluted however, so I'm going to rephrase it here. Let me know if it is improperly translated:
You learn to use your shield as another weapon in combat. When take the Attack action, you can use a bonus action to make a melee attack with your shield as if it were a weapon. The shield's damage die is a d6, and the attack deals bludgeoning damage. You can add your ability modifier to the damage of this additional attack.
If your shield is magical, you may also add additional AC to the attack and damage rolls of this attack.


You don't need to mention anything extra about weapons for this attack and such - it is not allowed nor implied that your shield remains a weapon, and if you treat it as a weapon for the attack then you gain the benefit of proficiency.

I think this part of the feat is too powerful. The trade-off of using a shield is that you gain +2 AC, but lose some damage (you can't two-weapon fight or use a two-handed weapon). This part of the feat allows you to:

apply STR/DEX modifier to the damage you deal with your shield, something you can only otherwise do with the two-weapon fighting fighting style
deal damage on par with a short sword
transform additional magical defense into raw attack power
retain your +2 AC


I don't think that you should include the last bit about magic shields. Imagine that a shield is enchanted to be extra tough and be especially good at protecting the wielder. It makes little sense that this magic can be applied to an offensive role.

I suppose that my main concern is that there ends up being no downside to using a shield now. You get all the AC and all the damage.

I would recommend removing the additional damage from your ability modifier, and don't allow magical shields to increase damage. This would allow you to treat your shield as a +2 AC short sword, which really isn't too bad at all.

Sorry for the long rant. I hope that we can have more of a conversation about this, and that what I said helps.

Feuerphoenix
2016-06-05, 06:03 AM
Thanks for your input :)


Hey! I like adding more options, so shieldbash is a great idea to flesh out.

Here's my thoughts:

The first part:

This encourages characters to take a different fighting style, if they know that later they will take this feat. And it will discourage those that took the protection fighting style from choosing this feat, because part of what they have is wrapped up in the feat. I would recommend not having this tied up with the protection fighting style.
Visually, I don't know how the protector can provide the bonus to the character if they are on opposite side of their ally from the enemy.
Does this require an action or bonus action? If it requires a reaction, what is the requirement for the reaction (all reactions have requirements).
How many allies can you use this on? It says that they retain the bonus as long as you remain within 5 feet.
Adding 1/2 your shield AC will usually only provide 1 AC for your ally.
[I think that a bonus action would be good for this bit. It means that you have to expend some limited resource, and you have to choose between using this ability and the second bullet.




1. I did not think about that, as the defensive feat also gives no advice for it.
2. Protecting an ally requires a reaction, you can use on one person. My other thought was, to use your bonus action+reaction, for protect everyone in 5 ft. But that is a little bit too powerful, I think.
3. As this action consumes your reaction, you can shield only one person.
4. Yes one one AC in combination with disadvantage is powerful, and with a+x shield, the AC increases even further, this was taken into, to give this feat a future at hight level, where a high AC is not that strong as in low level anymore.
5. See second point :)



I think this part of the feat is too powerful. The trade-off of using a shield is that you gain +2 AC, but lose some damage (you can't two-weapon fight or use a two-handed weapon). This part of the feat allows you to:
apply STR/DEX modifier to the damage you deal with your shield, something you can only otherwise do with the two-weapon fighting fighting style
deal damage on par with a short sword
transform additional magical defense into raw attack power
retain your +2 AC


As I read it, you are actually right. My thought behind this was, to give a real alternative to the shove mechanic, which gives you advantage on all your attack rolls, on a very regular level. Still, I want to keep the ability modifiers, as I created it like the additional attack of PAM. Maybe 1d4, and the bonus action requirement from above, as these two abilities compete with each other? protection vs offense? (In addition, you could take ways half of the AC when you attack with your shield maybe?)

zeek0
2016-06-05, 07:06 AM
As this action consumes your reaction, you can shield only one person.

No, what I mean is that as written the bonus you provide to your ally does not end as long as you stay within 5 feet of them. This can allow you to apply the bonus to more than one target, across the span of multiple reactions.


What I meant by the first point is that I see no reason to even mention the Protection fighting style in the feat. Here's a mock-up:

"When a creature you can see attacks a target other than you that is within 5 feet of you, you can use your reaction to impose disadvantage on all incoming attacks against that target until your next turn. This bonus only applies as long as you are within 5 feet of the target. In addition, you add half of your shield's AC to to the target's AC. You must be wielding a shield."


Yes one one AC in combination with disadvantage is powerful, and with a+x shield, the AC increases even further, this was taken into, to give this feat a future at hight level, where a high AC is not that strong as in low level anymore.

I agree. But bonuses to AC retain their power (-5% chance to be hit), which is why it is important. Disadvantage, on average, imposes a -5 on every attack roll that round. I see no reason to increase it further.

I contend that you need not add your shield's AC to the target's. It is quite enough to impose disadvantage on all attacks against them.

Final Hyena
2016-06-05, 10:17 AM
The way I read this is that despite attacking with a shield you still get to use its AC, this has some issues. Firstly +x shields are very good as they give you +1 ac, att & damage.
It also seems like you get all stats to damage which is equivalent to getting the two weapon fighting style.
Which is on top of the other fighting style you are getting.
Which is on top of the 1/2 ac to an ally.

Also if your shield is a weapon for this attack you run into the issue with the duelling fighting style.
You get the benefit of duelling style despite taking what is a multi weapon style.

So the feat undermines the intent of a fighting style, while giving you what I value at 2 fighting styles an ac buff to an ally and a magic item buff.

Perhaps a bit greedy.

Feuerphoenix
2016-06-08, 08:13 AM
Agreed,

Then redefine as follows:

You learned that your shield is more than just a big piece of metal or wood, but also, how you can protect your companions.

•When a creature you can see attacks a target other than you that is within 5 feet of you, you can use your reaction to impose disadvantage on all incoming attacks against that target until your next turn. This bonus only applies as long as you are within 5 feet of the target. You must be wielding a shield."

•you may use your bonus action, to attack with your shield, if you chose the attack option this turn On a hit, the character takes 1d4 bludgeoning damage. Your shield is a weapon during this attack only, and you apply all modifications to attack and damage rolls. This takes away your shield bonus until the start of your next turn. You may use your reaction to regain the shield's AC at the end of your turn.

better? :)

Final Hyena
2016-06-08, 08:36 AM
Probably, although I would add in two things;
A magical shield bypasses magical DR (otherwise the second benefit quickly becomes worthless).
Instead of "you apply all modifications to attack and damage rolls." Perhaps ~ You are proficient with attacks made with a shield (this might not be needed as you're already "proficient" with it, but that's as armour).

Feuerphoenix
2016-06-08, 08:48 AM
Seems legit. :)


Opening post has been updated