Looking for advice concerning second prestige class.

[Keral]

Hullo everyone, I hope this is the right section, I'm new to the forums and didn't see anything in the rules stating otherwise, but you never know.

Anyways, we've recently started playing and I have more or less defined what to do with my character. Or rather, I've picked a class and a prestige class, but that will get me up to level 15. So I wanted to choose a second prestige class (hopefully a 5 level one, but a 10 level with nice bonuses by level 5 is good I suppose) early in order to choose my remaining feats and any peculiar requirements I may need to plan.

I'm currently a level 4 elf sorcerer and plan to become a dracolexi. I've browsed through the manuals I could find but didn't find anything particularly appealing. I'm new to the game and so perhaps most of them sound not that useful to me.


I can, probably, qualify for any non peculiar requirement (i.e. skill points, feats and so on) given time. But I wouldn't want to waste too many feats.
I'm male, chaotic neutral and elf. This should cover all the needed info I think.

oh, and I'd like something that will add to my caster level.

I'd be very grateful if you'd give me some advice!


Ps: we're kinda missing a proper healer ( we've already had one of our group die) and since I'm the second sorcerer in our group I went with the arcane disciple feat in order to get the heal domain spells to heal a bit. And I'm considering taking a create magic wands feat to make healing wands.
So keep this in mind perhaps and, if I read the rules correctly, that means I can cast divine spells, kinda, if that were to be a PrC requirement.

[Zombimode]

Anyways, we've recently started playing and I have more or less defined what to do with my character. Or rather, I've picked a class and a prestige class, but that will get me up to level 15.

Are you sure the game will even reach level 15? Because most don't.

[Keral]

Well, no...

But I'd rather waste a bit of time to prepare than reach level 15 and discover a cool prestige class only to find out I can't take it because I didn't take some prerequisite...

[fishyfishyfishy]

Can't go wrong with Abjurant Champion! You also almost qualify for Ruathar.

Less easy to meet qualifications but pretty decent is Archmage. Those nifty little High Arcana abilities are fabulous.

If you want more spells known you can go for Sand Shaper. Loses another level of spell casting though.

[Sword-Geass]

One thing that you may have or not noticed is that Arcane Disciple casts from Wisdom, so to cast those spells you need that, not Cha (which means that maybe you took something that you can't even use). In case this isn't clear, it means you need 10+spell level Wisdom to cast the spells that Arcane Disciple granted you. Also to create the wand you also need to cast the spell, so it's the same; furthermore, crafting expendable items is the best way to put yourself behind the party without any lasting benefit, don't do that, instead buy the wands, since they only require that you have the spell in your list (you do) and not being able to cast it, you could even use those wands with 6 in Wis. Also be sure that the wands are paid by everyone, don't be the gimp.

On to the PrC. It would be nice to know what do you aim to do with your character in the future, without knowing that the best advice you'll get will be having some PrC like Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil or Incantatrix, which are those that are always good.
Also this is an excellent (yet almost unheard of) PrC for Sorceres: Ambient Tempest, from Dragonlance Bestiary of Krynn pg. 134. Loses a CL (specially bad for you since you already lose one with Dracolexi), but gives you Shifting Knowledge, which lets you change one of your known spells each week, the versatility is amazing, as you end being some sort of wizard-lite, but without the spellbook hassle. Also you get some Ambient Secrets, which you chose and range from a bonus Metamagic feat, to the ability to change one more spell to change when using Shifting Knowledge or removing the limits of it, or the ability to use metamagic without increasing casting time. Finally you get a "negative Metamagic" which reduces the range, area or duration in half... but also lowers the spell slot required. Overall the class is pure gold, leting you readapt your spell selection and providing a bunch of other powerful features in only 5 leves. Still, it's a rather obscure (but aproved by WotC, so legal) book.

[Troacctid]

This (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1geywITbI4M-Up08SGD-rUHlnobR66aIgKqu7mILkmhU) might be useful. It's a list of all prestige classes that advance spellcasting.

[Inevitability]

You also almost qualify for Ruathar.

Check with your DM on this one. Ruathar states:


Also known as "elf-friend" or "star-friend," a ruathar is a person of some other race who has earned the special friendship of the elven folk.

Emphasis mine. If you're an elf, there's a reasonable chance you won't be allowed to take this class.

[Keral]

Thank you!

@fishyfishyfishy
Now Abjurant champion seems good. I just need to check how to be proficient with a martial weapon but it shouldn't be hard. It gives me a quite a bit of hp and makes me a bit more "tanky".

Ruahatar desn't realy appeal to me, I already have low-light vision, and even tho the bonus on search are cumulative it doesn't seem like much to me.

Archmage needs some considering, the high arcanas seem good but I'm not convinced if they're worth sacrificing a spell slot...Do I have to choose 5 out of the 7? Or can I settle for less if I wish? They don't all seem good to me:
-I'm not sure about arcane reach, for example, I already have mage hand to deliver touch attacks, this would only increase my range?
-The spell like ability doesn't really seem good either. "can use one of her arcane spell slots (other than a slot expended to learn this or any other type of high arcana) to permanently prepare one of her arcane spells as a spell-like ability that can be used twice per day."
If I'm reading it correctly I'm giving up two spell slots to use a spell as a spell like ability twice a day, how is it any good? Wouldn't it be the same to keep the two slots and cast two spells?
-Mastery of elements is good, I could skip the feat for it, tho I would get it far later in the game than I'd hoped.
-Mastery of shaping works like the feat as well, if I'm reading it right, which is also good.
-Spell power idem, I think.
-Now mastery of counterspelling is obscure to me. I tried reading about counterspelling in the rule book but it seemed very circumstantial...
-And lastly I'd need to check a bit of math for Arcane Fire, to see if it ends up being a decently powerful spell or not.

Sand shaper is good, if only for the extra spells known, mostly low levels spells I wanted to learn but couldn't due to my limitations...but then it would be something I get in quite some time so I'm not sure...

@Sword-Geass
I did know I had to cast from wisdom, I have 14, so I should be ok for now till level 4 spells. But thanks for pointing it out!

I hadn't fully considered the exp price to craft items, perhaps I should reconsider that bit.

The initiate of the seven fold veil seems nice, I'm not so convinced about the Incantatrix tho. The two bonus feats are great, but then I hadn't planned on getting iron will, which I'll need for it, so it's actually one bonus feat. And I'm almost positive I won't need all that stuff about the ethereal in our campaign. Our Dm tends to be pretty straight-forward, so no ghosts, ethereal, extraplanar things.

I need to go and check out the Ambient tempest, but yeah, as you said, I was trying not to lose another caster level...

You're right however in asking what I'd like to do as a character.
As I mentioned I'd be the second sorcerer, then we have a druid and a warrior. I'd like to focus a bit more on healing perhaps? But I didn't really find any PrC to boost that without getting divine caster levels. I was asked to play a cleric but I read its spells and it's really not my cup of tea. That's why I went with arcane disciple, however limited it may be. And Dracolexi actually adds a tiny bit of healing as well.
Anyhow, I'm trying to keep a semi supporting role. Both in combat and out. So I decided to stick to one damage dealing spell per level, which coupled with the energy substitution feat should keep me covered.
Since one of our party died on our third encounter you could say I'd like to focus on keeping us alive, whether by incapacitating the enemies of protecting/healing my allies, without having to give up my sorcererness.

Edit:
@Troacctid thanks, I'll check it out!

@Dire_Stirge I missed that bit, but I'm fairly sure I won't be choosing Ruahatar anyway :P

[fishyfishyfishy]

Elves are proficient with the Longsword and Longbow, both are marital weapons.

Edit: Mage Hand won't allow you to cast spells from range. You're thinking of Spectral Hand, which is a second level spell and only lasts 1 minute per level. Arcane Reach will let you use those healing spells you picked up from range, vastly increasing your ability to heal in a pinch. I'll give you that for a Sorcerer having a spell-like ability for a spell you already know is less appealing than it is for a Wizard. Spell Power is great for making up that lost caster level but a Ione Stone will do the same thing for you. Mastery of Shaping and Mastery of Elements are great for blasting, making it so you don't need the Metamagic feats that mimic them. The rest of the abilities aren't even worth talking about.

[Pyromancer999]

If it's not too late to do the Dragonblood Sorcerer route(1st substitution level only) and you don't mind losing another caster level, Pact-Bound Adept 3 could be a good lead-in to Dracolexi, as that gets you Eschew Materials, the ability to apply both Still and Silent metamagic feats to 3 spells/day, as well as an improved Dragonpact, granting you a bit more versatility as well. Could also do Dragonheart Mage 5 along the same route.

Also if you have a couple levels open later and you're still doing the Dragonblood Sorcerer, you could take 2 more levels(assuming you're entering Dracolexi at 5), and get 4 bonus spells, including Bless, if you're Good-aligned.

If you want to go for Abjurant Champion to fill out those levels, Stalwart Sorcerer grants you +2 HP/Sorcerer level and proficiency and Weapon Focus with one martial weapon of your choice, although that's in exchange for one less spell known for the highest level spells you can cast. If you desired to go further down the gish route(as in, you didn't want to take full Dracolexi 10), you could always take a few levels in Swiftblade (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) if you didn't mind dipping it earlier and also taking Dodge and Mobility.


Edit: Elves are proficient with two martial weapons naturally, as pointed out in a post before mine.

[Sword-Geass]

I think you read the wrong incantatrix, probably the 3.0 version that doesn't have Metamagic Effect. Incantatrix main appeal is that at lvl 3 it lets you apply metamagic to an ongoing spell (so it has already been cast) without incresing it's spell level (obviously, since it was already casted) by making a spellcraft check. It's basically "persist all the things" and it's one of the top 5 most broken PrC you can take. BTW, you can also do the same to spells casted by allies while they cast them at level 2, so double the fun.

Now if you are looking to keep everyone alive, healing is not the best option. Simply put, the healing that you don't need to do, is the best healing. Look out for some buffs to increse the defense of your party as well as battlefield control to avoid the damage alltogether. Summons are a favorite tactic for this, as they divert the attacks and are disposable. Also when you achieve level 4 spells, all your healing should come from summon monster IV in the form of a summoned unicorn. Don't waste slots in Arcane Disciple. Also, another letdown with that feat: it adds the spells to your list, you must still use a "Spell Known" for them if you want to cast them. And spells known for a Sorcerer are one of the most valuable resources (which is what makes the Ambient Tempest so desirable, despite the lost level)... That's why the wands are good for you, no need to waste a spell known in a (weak) healing spell which you cast out of a diferent stat than yours and that you can only cast once a day. Also in regards to healing, remember that you can only affect a person once per 24 hours with a draconic word; so picking up the one that heals will only heal them your CL one time, for the whole day, which is pretty much sad. Don't pick that word.
By now you probably have noticed that healing with arcane casters comes in ultra-weak forms. Only (half) proper arcane healing that exist comes from Bards, Sorcerers and Wizards are barely capable of doing so and only in minimal amounts with high costs. Yes, I'm trying to tell you to ditch the healing plan and go with buffing and BC, that will keep your party safer.

[tyckspoon]

Archmage abilities:
Arcane Fire is utterly pointless aside from *maybe* making use of its Long range - that's still pretty rare to find in spell, but then it's also pretty rare to find or force situations where you can really take advantage of its sniping potential. It wouldn't be too bad as a pseudo at-will damage ability (turn a 1st or 2nd level spell into 6d6/7d6 damage, and really what else are you gonna do with those slots by the time you can take this?) except for 2 things. The first is that, as a character with a 9th level spell slot to spend on acquiring this ability in the first place, you have dramatically better things to be doing with your actions pretty much all the time ever. The second is that this in no way is worth permanently burning a 9th level spell slot.

Arcane Reach is pretty nice, actually, although not something I would take the class specifically for. Still, it's a good ability. There are tons of great Touch spells that are mostly limited in use by the fact that you really don't want to be close enough to the fight to actually deliver them, and the other methods of bypassing that (like Spectral Hand, using your Familiar, or the Reach Spell metamagic) are fragile, action intensive, or have their own costs you may not want to pay.

Counterspelling is pretty niche - you have to build for counterspells to really make them work out, with Improved Counterspell and Reactive Counterspell at a minimum - but if you are that counterspell specialist Mastery of Counterspelling is pretty hilarious. Basically when you counterspell something that is targeted at you (fussy word here in D&D 3.x - being in the area of a Fireball is not being targeted by a Fireball, it's just being blown up by a Fireball) you cause the caster to cast it on themselves instead of simply cancelling it like normal counterspells.

Mastery of Elements - you're thinking 'why don't I just take Energy Substitution? Doesn't it do the same thing?' No, it doesn't. Energy Substitution has you pick 1 type of energy, and that's the only type you can substitute to. Also it doesn't let you use Sonic. And if you're a spontaneous caster, using Energy Substitution makes you eat the penalized casting time for using a metamagic. Mastery of Elements doesn't have any of those restrictions. It's pretty nice if you're a blaster (...nevermind that if you're an optimized blaster, you're probably using Wings of Flurry for Force damage and just taking a billion Spell Powers because that spell doesn't have a damage die cap, or throwing metamagic-optimized Orbs of Fire that nothing resists anyway.)

Mastery of Shaping is just lulzy. If you do go Archmage I suggest grabbing this, then have fun throwing crowd control and damage zone spells on top of your party (but keep an eye on the spell types that can actually be modified with it.)

Spell Like Ability: The trick here is to find a higher-level spell that you know you're going to want to cast at least twice a day. Spell Like Ability lets you turn a 5th level slot into an extra higher level slot for that spell. Does casting Shapechange, Foresight, Mind Blank, or Time Stop from a 5th-level slot sound useful to you? That's Spell-Like Ability (it also has some functionality in that Spell Like Abilities do not have components. The Archmage ability still specifically costs XP and costly material components, so no free Wishes, but if you're the paranoid type this gives you a spell you can cast while tied up naked in the area of a Silence spell.)

If you're looking for an easy stub filler, take a look at Fatespinner. Requirements are basically just skill points, lets you grant or force rerolls. Doesn't drop a caster level until the very end, so if you don't think its level 5 ability is good enough, well, you can do worse than just taking another level of base Sorcerer. It's not amazing, but what it does is useful to basically everybody, it's easy to get into, and it doesn't drop CLs.


Don't pick that word.
Pick it because it lets you Extend some other spell on the fly. The minor healing is a handy side benefit.

[Sword-Geass]

Pick it because it lets you Extend some other spell on the fly. The minor healing is a handy side benefit.

Ehh... I actually don't know what was I thinking, at the moment I was about to suggest picking the one that lets you extend for free actually. Forgot that they were the same... uh, silly me.