Steal-based Sharper Rogue build for discussion

[Secret Wizard]

Here's a snapshot of an 8th level Sharper Rogue, using 20 pt. buy, 2 traits, standard WBL. It assumes that you are allowed to gain an extra Rogue Talent at level 6th through the Human FCB, though it's not too important all in all.

Race: Human
Alternate Racials: Military Tradition - Gnome Pincher + Estoc proficiency
Attributes at creation: STR10 DEX17+2 CON14 INT10 WIS12 CHA10
Traits: Pillager or Bred for War, Indomitable Faith

Feats and Talents
1. Agile Maneuvers
2. FREE: Improved Steal
3. Dodge
4. +1 DEX
5. Twist Away, EDGE: Sleight of Hand
6. FREE: Greater Steal, FCB: Combat Trick (Combat Reflexes)
7. Weapon Trick (One-Handed Weapon)
8. FREE: Quick Steal, +1 DEX

Equipment: Belt of DEX +2, Gauntlets of the Skilled Maneuver, +3 Leather Armor, +2 Estoc, +1 Cloak of Resistance, +1 Amulet of Natural Armor, +1 Ring of Protection
Final Attributes: STR10 DEX23 CON14 INT10 WIS12 CHA10

STATS

Defense
AC 24 Saves FORT +6 REF +14 WILL +6
Also: Twist Away, Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, Imp. Uncanny Dodge

Offense
Estoc Full-Attack +14/+9, 2d4+8 (+4d6 Sneak Attack)
Full-Round Double Steal CMB (Quick Steal + 1H Weapon Trick) +19 (+2 after successful Sleight of Hand, +2 when using Gnome Pincher)



So... comments? Ideas?

[Florian]

So, plain vanilla Rogue sneaks up on target, uses surprise round against flat-footed foe to steal the weapon and then.. killing time.

Like all "gimmick"-builds, it´s nice, but does not help at all with finishing the actual encounter.

[Ignatius Flamel]

Steal is an interesting maneuver, because it can be performed with a few weapons...

You're already using the Gnome pincher, but IMO, the Whip offers more potential.

Without any feats, a Simple Magus 3 with Whip Proficiency and the Wand Wielder Arcana can use the "Wand of True Strike + Spellcombat with a Whip + Combat Maneuver with a Whip" combination to perform Trip/disarm/reposition/drag/steal maneuvers with 15ft reach(avoiding AoOs) with a massive bonus to CMB because of True strike.

(-2 spellcombat, +20 True strike; -4 Steal, + whatever bonus the whip offers(mwk, or +N)


Example of an Steal-focused Rogue who can also use Sneak Attack easily through the Enforcer/Shadows of Fear combo, who can use Sneaky Maneuver to add free combat maneuvers to his (Sneak) Attacks, and who can use Underhanded Trick with Dirty Trick(Blind) in order to keep someone Blind for at least 1 full round.

Use a Palelight Torch(250gp item from Inner Sea Intrigue, creates Dim light in a 40' radius, either raises the light level to dim light if it was dark previously, or LOWERS the light level to dim light if it was normal light previously) to constantly benefit from 50% miss chance(Shadow Blending from "Behind the Veil").


1/2-orc Unchained Rogue:
Alternate Racial Traits: Sacred Tattoo, City-Raised, Behind the Veil
Traits: Fate's Favored, Memorable

Take the Human FCB

Stats(15-PB):
12 STR, 18 DEX, 14 CON, 8 INT, 10 WIS, 10 CHA

1st: Finesse Training(WF), Trapfinding, Sneak Attack +1d6; Weapon Finesse, Enforcer
2nd: Rogue Talent(Underhanded Trick), Evasion; Improved Dirty Trick
3rd: Finesse Training(Dex2dmg), Sneak Attack +2d6, Danger Sense +1; Shadows of Fear
4th: RT(Combat Swipe), Uncanny Dodge, Debilitating Injury, +1 DEX; Improved Steal
5th: Sneak Attack +3d6, Edge(Intimidate); Extra RT(Sneaky Maneuver)
6th: RT(Combat Trick: Greater Dirty Trick), RT(Mien of Despair) Danger Sense +2
7th: Sneak Attack +4d6; Greater Steal

[Florian]

Still too complicated. You´ll want a build that can use "steal" as a rider to other attacks. Else, frankly speaking, simple damage will always be better than gimmicks.

For example, Fighter 5/Swashbuckler 5 can use both, Kitsune Style and Cloak and Dagger Style at the same time and gain Dirty Trick as well as Steal as rider to regular attacks. You´ll want a scorpion whip and go for it from there on.
Part of the "rider" here consists on using steal after a successful dirty trick, and dirty trick after certain regular attacks, like a charge.

And yes, the Rogue is a bad framework for this kinds of things.

[Secret Wizard]

Not sure why you consider my CMB to be low. Remember that with Debilitating Injury, we are looking at +27 when fully prepped.

I do like the idea of combining it with Dirty Tricks to blind.

[Geddy2112]

Second the whip simply for the range and utility of maneuvers. You get trip in addition to steal, which is handy against more opponents. Steal can be devastating if you nab a caster's arcane focus or spell pouch, or if you can notice a case of scrolls/potions/whathaveyou. A lot of enemies are not very good steal targets, so always have alternatives(the estoc is certainly one).

You might want to consider the prankster gnome bard over rogue, as it allows you to steal with a slight of hand check instead of CMB, and you might be able to prevent them from noticing. You would also get the utility of casting and bardic performances.

[Secret Wizard]

Second the whip simply for the range and utility of maneuvers. You get trip in addition to steal, which is handy against more opponents. Steal can be devastating if you nab a caster's arcane focus or spell pouch, or if you can notice a case of scrolls/potions/whathaveyou. A lot of enemies are not very good steal targets, so always have alternatives(the estoc is certainly one).

You might want to consider the prankster gnome bard over rogue, as it allows you to steal with a slight of hand check instead of CMB, and you might be able to prevent them from noticing. You would also get the utility of casting and bardic performances.

Yeah, I could do that with a Filcher Halfling Rogue too, but I liked the combo of save bonuses and free rerolls granted by the Sharper.

Lunge is probably a great feat for level 9.