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View Full Version : Pathfinder Does Ley Line Guardian + Dreamweaver = Broken Magic Jar?



Levism84
2016-06-06, 09:25 PM
I was just playing around with some mechanics, as I am want to do, and I was a little unsure of how the Ley Line Guardian and Dreamweaver archetypes for the Witch class work together. More specifically, I was uncertain how Dream Possession works with Ley Line Powered and Conduit Surge.

Dream Possession
At 10th level, a dreamweaver can take control of any creature that is sleeping because of her slumber hex or a spell she cast. This effect functions as magic jar, using the witch's familiar acting as the soul receptacle. A Will save negates either effect (DC equal to that of the witch's hex). Whether or not the save is successful, a creature cannot be the target of this hex again for 1 day.

This ability replaces the witch's hex gained at 10th level.

Ley Line Powered
Instead of preparing her spells, a ley line guardian draws the power casting spells directly from ley lines. A ley line guardian is a spontaneous spellcaster. She knows the same number of spells and receives the same number of spell slots per day as a sorcerer of her witch level. Bonus spells granted by a ley line guardian's patron are added to the ley line guardian's total spells known at the appropriate levels.

This ability alters the witch's spellcasting.

Conduit Surge
At 1st level, a ley line guardian is adept at channeling energy from ley lines to enhance her own spells. As a swift action, she can increase her effective caster level for the next spell she casts in that round by 1d4–1 levels. After performing a conduit surge, the ley line guardian must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC = 10 + level of spell cast + number of additional caster levels granted) or become staggered for a number of minutes equal to the level of the spell cast. At 8th level, the caster level increase becomes 1d4. She can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier.

This ability replaces familiar and the hexes gained at 1st and 8th levels.

It would appear that ley lines act as the witch's familiar for the purposes of storing spells and other effects, so it seems like a Ley Line Guardian/Dreamweaver could use Dream Possession to treat a ley line as the receptacle for a creature's soul, effectively giving the witch an intangible receptacle (can't target dispel a ley line), an ambiguous range for the effect (the ley line could "extend" to any target along its "path") and an easy out (if the target dies, the witch's soul would travel back to the ley line and back to her body). Granted, the target still has to be within range of the slumber hex or sleep effect created by the witch, but after the possession takes place, it provides an nearly infinite range. On the plus side, the soul of the target should automatically return to its body because of the ley line's ambiguous range after the spell ends, but a dubious user of this archetype combination could easily kill the possessed body with the full knowledge its soul will return safely to its own body.

Am I missing something? Probably. I could use a little clarification and help from the playground.

Necroticplague
2016-06-06, 09:55 PM
Sounds more like a dysfunction than anything that actually works. While you lack a familiar, the rules don't say the ley lines are your familiar. You completely lack one altogether. Contrast with Scarred Witch Doctor, where it's explicit that the mask is your familiar.

Secret Wizard
2016-06-07, 12:39 AM
It just doesn't work.

Magentawolf
2016-06-07, 10:35 AM
Sounds more like a dysfunction than anything that actually works. While you lack a familiar, the rules don't say the ley lines are your familiar. You completely lack one altogether. Contrast with Scarred Witch Doctor, where it's explicit that the mask is your familiar.

Agreed. You simply don't have a familiar for the Dream Possession effect to function with.

Levism84
2017-06-11, 11:18 PM
*casts cyclic reincarnation (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/cyclic-reincarnation/) on thread*

Sort of a delayed follow up to my original question:

Does ley like guardian + dreamweaver + vmc wizard = functional dream possession?

That is to say, if you gain a familiar from another source, such as from variant multiclass wizard or eldritch heritage [arcana bloodline], would you be able to use the ability, even though it isn't a witch's familiar (although, it is a familiar used by a witch)?

Florian
2017-06-12, 01:39 AM
Just use what Paizo recommends anyway, replace any instance of Magic Jar with Posession, as that's the update to the core spell and works better with any instance of it being SU or SLA. That'll also solve your issue.