Evil Verdant Lord?

[Conradine]

Verdant Lord is a prestige class that appears in Masters of the Wild. It has a strange alignment prerequisite: non evil.
But why? Basically it's a druid that focus on vegetal world. It's not an healer or a champion of goodness.

In your opinion, an Evil Verdant Lord, that cares for his trees and garden but gleefully disebowel any humanoid that dares to trespass the area that he designed as "holy wilderness" would be an internally consistent character?

[AlanBruce]

Verdant Lord is a prestige class that appears in Masters of the Wild. It has a strange alignment prerequisite: non evil.
But why? Basically it's a druid that focus on vegetal world. It's not an healer or a champion of goodness.

In your opinion, an Evil Verdant Lord, that cares for his trees and garden but gleefully disembowel any humanoid that dares to trespass the area that he designed as "holy wilderness" would be an internally consistent character?

It's a druid that uses his knowledge of plants to such a degree, that he can create infusions and salves from plants, like anti toxins, which help non plant creatures stave off things like poison.

The whole idea of being refreshed by the sun, generally associated as a good concept and celestial body. In fact, there is a druid PrC that is based around the sun in Libris Mortis that channels the Sun to destroy undead, so maybe the writers went with that line of thought, silly as it may sound:

The sun = good....or at the very least, non evil.

Would a murderous druid that cares for plants above all else, going as far as killing non plants be possible? Yes.

I have a woodling druid in my game who lives in a swamp and has a Greenvise as a girlfriend, feeding her any humanoids or any "meat bags" that wander into his domain.

If you're the DM, you can make this guy evil, certainly.

If you are a player, talk to the DM and reach a compromise, since a party of possibly non plants may cause your Verdant Lord to go on a killing spree and turn them to mulch.

[AvatarVecna]

Verdant Lord is a prestige class that appears in Masters of the Wild. It has a strange alignment prerequisite: non evil.
But why? Basically it's a druid that focus on vegetal world. It's not an healer or a champion of goodness.

In your opinion, an Evil Verdant Lord, that cares for his trees and garden but gleefully disebowel any humanoid that dares to trespass the area that he designed as "holy wilderness" would be an internally consistent character?

I've seen it suggested that WotC is biased in favor of classes that are "at one with nature"; even if you don't think they would specifically build a particular class and theme (Druid and nature) to be both powerful and tend towards good, it's worth pointing out that it happens quite a bit: the Druid is one of the only base classes worth taking to level 20, and most of the others (full casters all) are better if you take some full casting PrC (the closest druid gets is the borderline TO suggestion of Planar Shepherd); similarly, while both Blighter (ex-druid) and Ur-Priest (ex-cleric) are Evil ex-divine casters who can get to 9th level spells, one of them has to actually work for it by destroying plant life on a daily basis for the privilege of casting spells; the closest we get to an PrC for devout Evil Druids is the Vermin Lord from BoVD, which is either fairly terrible (if used regularly) or insanely broken (if the cross-edition confusion is abused).

EDIT: To be more on-topic, I think an evil Verdant Lord would be absolutely fine.

[Necroticplague]

But why? Basically it's a druid that focus on vegetal world. It's not an healer or a champion of goodness.

The "Why" is because WotC is heavily steeped in a kind of fantasy that derives a lot of themes from tolkein. Unfortunately for much of fantasy that also traces its roots back to that, Tolkein was a luddite and a racist. Thus, works based off of that tend to, even if by accident and transference, have similarly unfortunate themes running through them. Associating nature with good is one such thing.

[Bobby Baratheon]

I think an evil Verdant Lord is more than fine and would be a lot of fun. The Verdant Prince (coincidentally) is a good example of how run an evil nature lover. They protect their forests, sure. They'll even make deals with you! They're also malicious, conniving jerks who will troll unsuspecting victims for no other reason than the fact that amuses them, and just LOVE tricking people into terrible bargains. The key here, I think, is the balance of beneficence and malevolence. Nature, while not really being inherently good or evil, definitely has a dark side that can be channeled. Heck, even plants do - how many poisonous plants appear to be innocuous, or have beneficial uses that can easily turn bad if taken improperly? The difference between alleviation and poisoning can often simply be the dosage of a given plant substance. Channel that. Be helpful when it suits your character, be conniving, be cruel and above all be subtle. Not even your allies should really know what you're up to, and there should always be a hint of doubt in their minds whether or not you are the cure or the poison.

[hamishspence]

The "Why" is because WotC is heavily steeped in a kind of fantasy that derives a lot of themes from tolkein. Unfortunately for much of fantasy that also traces its roots back to that, Tolkein was a luddite and a racist.

I think that's been overstated some. Orc appearance is very loosely based on certain real world races - but that doesn't mean Tolkien was intending people to think "These people in the real world are just like orcs"

And when it comes to Neanderthals (the Wild Men of the forests of Rohan) they are portrayed extremely sympathetically in both LOTR and Unfinished Tales).

[tomandtish]

The problem with a lot of prestige classes is that the fluff text influences the concept, often in ways players may not want to go. For the Verdant Lord…


The verdant lord is the final defender of the Forest. He has left behind the druid’s search for global understanding of nature’s secrets to focus all his energies on the world’s
plant life.

And


Since most verdant lords have little use for civilization, they tend to be loners, watching the years pass by from their groves. Adventuring verdant lords are rare, but those who do exist are marvelous to behold. They tend to take their gardens with them, often bringing several plant creatures, such as animated trees and treants, along on adventures. Verdant lords tend to be soft-spoken, easygoing individuals—right up until someone lights a torch and threatens living plants.


So basically you have a protector of the forest who is fairly calm natured until you mess with their forest… then you’re screwed. But nothing in that description screams evil. For the most part, they just aren’t involved enough in goals outside protecting the forest to go that route.

If you’re actually playing a Verdant Lord (as opposed to taking levels for mechanical reasons), then protecting plant life is your first and foremost goal. If you aren’t focusing on that, you aren’t really a Verdant Lord.

Of course, that sets up the possibility for an evil one. Let’s say you are playing an evil elf Verdant Lord. What’s the biggest threat to nature these days? Humans, with their blatant expansion into the woods, their disregard for nature, and their rapid population growth. Wouldn’t it be better if we just got rid of ALL of them? And I do mean ALL. They reproduce like rats! Let even one couple survive and in 1000 years we’ll be right back where we started. No, the only way to ensure the forest can survive is to get rid of them all, right down to the last mewling infant!

And there you have your evil Verdant Lord, who is still being true to the concept. You can play with that basic idea obviously, but remember: At the core a Verdant Lord is always protecting nature. An evil one is probably going overboard in the method they choose.

Look at Redcloak. His initial goal (a fair shake for goblins) is noble. His means... not so much.

[Honest Tiefling]

The "Why" is because WotC is heavily steeped in a kind of fantasy that derives a lot of themes from tolkein. Unfortunately for much of fantasy that also traces its roots back to that, Tolkein was a luddite and a racist. Thus, works based off of that tend to, even if by accident and transference, have similarly unfortunate themes running through them. Associating nature with good is one such thing.

Pretty much this. Keep in mind, bards can't be lawful, because that one makes sense. Apparently the people responsible for spreading social norms need to be chaotic for some odd reason. Or it has something to do with the fact that the class does start to sustain itself with the sun, and the sun = good in most campaign settings.

Anyway, I think making it evil is fine, but I would worry more about the character concept functioning with a party.