Need Familiars Handbook

[Elfkin_King]

Since I've been on a hiatus from playing my standard Pathfinder sessions for a few months, I've been looking into some of the more magically based classes. And I've noticed that there doesn't seem to be a handbook on Familiars, except for an old 3.5 that doesn't carry over to Pathfinder as well as one would hope.

The reason I was looking into this was because I was considering playing a Witch, and the nuances of familiars is still rather foreign to me.
If there is a more updated handbook/guide can someone post the link?
If not, is anyone interested in making one?

[Secret Wizard]

http://paizo.com/products/btpy9au2?Pathfinder-Player-Companion-Familiar-Folio

[Slithery D]

Or free links to the crunch bits here (http://archivesofnethys.com/SourceDisplay.aspx?FixedSource=Familiar%20Folio).

[Psyren]

There's also stuff in Cohorts and Companions and other stuff. But as for a dedicated handbook, I found this one (http://rpgbot.net/pathfinder/characters/familiars.php) which needs to be updated for the newer stuff.

[Elfkin_King]

There's also stuff in Cohorts and Companions and other stuff. But as for a dedicated handbook, I found this one (http://rpgbot.net/pathfinder/characters/familiars.php) which needs to be updated for the newer stuff.

Yeah, I was hoping for a dedicated handbook. I've got herolabs, but, like I said, I'm still pretty unused to playing dedicated full casters.
Anyone wanna take on this task? xD

Also, what is the point of taking on the Improved Familiars? It seems like you miss out on the skill boosts, but maybe some of the Improved Familiars have special abilities and might be able to hold wands/rods.

I was also wondering if it's even a good idea to take the Improved Familiar feat as a Witch, since the familiar is the spellbook.
And if so, what familiars are a good pick for a Synergist Witch? (I figured that the ability to meld with your spellbook to keep it safe is worth the cost of 3 hexes, all of which could be regained with feats if desired, and since the Witch isn't feat starved in order to function, from what I understand, it's a pretty good trade off)

[Florian]

Synergist is actually pretty bad for a Witch.
The main benefit of using a familiar is the upgraded economy of actions and the better positioning on the battlefield, i.e. the Witch keeps to the background and the familiar delivers touch spells like Cure.
Improved Familiars are generally more resilient, as their types bring a lot of immunities and resistances along. Their ability to UMD and use wands will become important once a Witch has the whole cackling going, as that also locks down the Witch.

[Kurald Galain]

The reason I was looking into this was because I was considering playing a Witch, and the nuances of familiars is still rather foreign to me.

Well, it's not that complicated.

First, you pick the form of your familiar, good forms include hare, scorpion, fox, hedgehog, or turtle. In terms of effectiveness, the best ones are those that give +2 to a saving throw or +4 to initiative. If you're a frontliner (which the witch is probably not) then +1 AC is also good. The skill bonus familiars are less good.

Then you pick an archetype. For defense, take protector (which gives more hit points and a +2 to AC). If you have poor skill points (which, again, the which probably doesn't) then figment + sage makes for an excellent skill monkey. If you're a frontliner, go for mauler (as a flanking buddy, which is not that great though) or valet (to use a teamwork feat all by yourself). Finally, for anyone, emissary is a good utility choice (effectively +1 to all skills, reroll one will save per day, and your choice of cleric domain).

So for the witch, take protector or emissary.

[Florian]

The Witch will also hinge on the choice to go Winter Witch or not.

[Psyren]

Yeah, I was hoping for a dedicated handbook. I've got herolabs, but, like I said, I'm still pretty unused to playing dedicated full casters.
Anyone wanna take on this task? xD

Not really :smalltongue: but good luck!



Also, what is the point of taking on the Improved Familiars? It seems like you miss out on the skill boosts, but maybe some of the Improved Familiars have special abilities and might be able to hold wands/rods.

More abilities, better in a fight, better item use and greater intelligence are the typical ones.


I was also wondering if it's even a good idea to take the Improved Familiar feat as a Witch, since the familiar is the spellbook.
And if so, what familiars are a good pick for a Synergist Witch? (I figured that the ability to meld with your spellbook to keep it safe is worth the cost of 3 hexes, all of which could be regained with feats if desired, and since the Witch isn't feat starved in order to function, from what I understand, it's a pretty good trade off)

Th is largely depends on your GM. If you stick with a simple animal, especially one with little to no combat ability (e.g. a frog), then a lot of GMs will simply avoid targeting it or forget its presence in combat. Needless to say, the GM forgetting it exists is perhaps the most powerful defense in the entire game.

If you instead go with an Improved Familiar however, you can certainly roll with something tougher, but the GM will likely feel more compelled to involve it in combat.

Synergist I'm not quite familiar enough with to optimize but I could see using it with a capable out-of-combat familiar that you only unmeld for utility purposes. Not sure it's worth a third of your hexes but it could be.

[Florian]

Synergist I'm not quite familiar enough with to optimize but I could see using it with a capable out-of-combat familiar that you only unmeld for utility purposes. Not sure it's worth a third of your hexes but it could be.

It´s simply Beast Shape I - IV based on your familiar. That restriction alone makes it very limited as you´ll have a hard time finding any regular animal familiar with enough options to provide more than Beast Shape II. There´s not enough there to optimize or justify the cost of 3 hexes.

[Psyren]

It´s simply Beast Shape I - IV based on your familiar. That restriction alone makes it very limited as you´ll have a hard time finding any regular animal familiar with enough options to provide more than Beast Shape II. There´s not enough there to optimize or justify the cost of 3 hexes.

I know, but the point I was making is that the abilities themselves don't actually have to be worth a hex (though some, like flight, are.) Rather, the utility comes from being able to absorb and release your familiar at will. If you're in a campaign where the GM routinely targets your familiar - which becomes more likely if you have an Improved one, even one that is not particularly suited for combat - then this could be a valid way to protect it.

The beast shape abilities I agree will likely be pretty minor.

[Elfkin_King]

I know, but the point I was making is that the abilities themselves don't actually have to be worth a hex (though some, like flight, are.) Rather, the utility comes from being able to absorb and release your familiar at will. If you're in a campaign where the GM routinely targets your familiar - which becomes more likely if you have an Improved one, even one that is not particularly suited for combat - then this could be a valid way to protect it.

The beast shape abilities I agree will likely be pretty minor.

I was thinking that it might be worth it for the ability to protect it as needed, and for the ability to fly without busting out a spell. minutes/day based on Witch level is pretty good utility. The other benefits are just icing. So, obviously, a familiar with Flight of some sort would be ideal.
I was considering the Faerie Dragon, or the Psuedodragon, but I wasn't sure if there were better choices. If not those, a Silvanshee

[Kurald Galain]

I was thinking that it might be worth it for the ability to protect it as needed, and for the ability to fly without busting out a spell. minutes/day based on Witch level is pretty good utility. The other benefits are just icing. So, obviously, a familiar with Flight of some sort would be ideal.
I was considering the Faerie Dragon, or the Psuedodragon, but I wasn't sure if there were better choices. If not those, a Silvanshee

Well if it's flight you want, I'd take a regular witch with the flight hex. It comes online three levels earlier; plus you can still take a regular (or improved) familiar with that.

If you're worried about the GM killing your familiar, give it the Figment archetype and it'll automatically respawn each night.

[Psyren]

If you're worried about the GM killing your familiar, give it the Figment archetype and it'll automatically respawn each night.

*BUZZ!*

Witch familiars specifically cannot be Figments. I know, it annoyed me too :smallsigh:

[Florian]

And there´s the Stone Familiar, taking the familiar out of the picture entirely. You can´t get more protection than that.

[Psyren]

And there´s the Stone Familiar, taking the familiar out of the picture entirely.

No, not entirely - Stone Familiar spells can only be copied to a living familiar. You cannot use it to prepare spells directly; rather, it's just a way to preserve your spells in between familiars (or transfer them to another witch's familiar.)

[Elfkin_King]

Well if it's flight you want, I'd take a regular witch with the flight hex. It comes online three levels earlier; plus you can still take a regular (or improved) familiar with that.

That's true, and it's possible to curb some of the pain of the possible loss of a familiar with a Stone Familiar, I suppose. *shrugs* I guess in either case, a Stone Familiar would be vitally important just in case.
Still, doubling ones "minute/level per day" of flight without a spell slot is very nice.