Stealing from group or what?

[Mandarin]

Alright so I am a relatively new DM and am unsure what to do over a couple things.

1) My players keep splitting up and going off in 2s and 3s... .usually while another one is sleeping and without consulting one another... The most recent time it happened 2 PCs walk into 3 bad guys and one guy goes down in round1.... the other PC ends up reviving him and they run away... and I kind of allowed it because I didnt want to actually kill their character and figured this would teach them a lesson... nect minute same PC is suggesting they go somewhere else split.

While I am not opposed to the party splitting up... I am opposed to catering the adventure to smaller groups.... I was planning on talking to the group before the next session and explaining that I do not prefer split groups because it is less fun for everyone... while 2 guys run off on an adventure 4 people are sitting their twiddling their thumbs waiting for me to get to them so they can have their turns.... and it is VERY dangerous to do that... if they decide to split up at the wrong time and walk into a dragon lair... well it wont be pretty..

2) This one is probably the most troublesome for me and the one I need the most help with. The rogue of the party is constantly running to the treasures... looting the bodies first... going to assassinate someone alone to reap solo exp... you get the picture. While he is having fun... the rest of the group just sits and waits... last night several party members ended up getting on facebook because of the 30 minute wait period.... Well the group downed a boss guy and the rogue runs to the treasure chest, takes all the gold and the only magic item inside without consulting or telling party. I had him roll sleight of hand and the closest other PC roll perception... Perception PC rolled 1 and so the group was upset. They didnt say anything right then but came up to me later to complain that this guy is stealing their loot like that.

So I basically told them this is something the party is going to have to work out... I feel like if I punish the rogue by making it a cursed weapon or any of a hundred other things that I am being a bully. I do feel what he is doing is a jerk move but I feel the players should approach the character in game when they see he has a new magic sword and ask some questions... I AM probably going to talk to the rogue out of game before the next session and let him know that he is treading a fine line and that if the party decides to kill his character or just tell his character to leave the group... there is nothing I can do to help him.

So fellow heroes... what say you? Should I do something different?

[ad_hoc]

This is something to deal with in a session 0.

Since that didn't happen, it should be done now.

Goals of play should be decided upon. If there can't be an agreement on the goals of play then those in the minority should find a different game to play.

It works best as a cooperative play by default. Deviation from that can work but the circumstances and rules should be clear.

Also be completely okay with characters/the whole party dying.

Oh and these sorts of issues should be worked out by the players, not the characters.

[Crgaston]

The rogue's player is acting like he's playing a solo computer game. He needs to be sat down and reminded that he's playing an pen and paper group game where everyone has taken time out of their lives to come together and tell a cooperative story. And to quit being a douche or you'll give his character sheet to another player and he can stay home with his x box. :-)

[Laserlight]

As DM, I make it clear from the start that the PCs are a team and they will act like one. PCs can have some friction between them as long as everyone is cool--three of my four players goodnaturedly insist that they're the real party leader--and PCs can be evil in general, but they cannot be evil to the party. If a player can't come up with a character concept that doesn't involve stealing from the party, I don't want him in my house.

[RickAllison]

Alright so I am a relatively new DM and am unsure what to do over a couple things.

1) My players keep splitting up and going off in 2s and 3s... .usually while another one is sleeping and without consulting one another... The most recent time it happened 2 PCs walk into 3 bad guys and one guy goes down in round1.... the other PC ends up reviving him and they run away... and I kind of allowed it because I didnt want to actually kill their character and figured this would teach them a lesson... nect minute same PC is suggesting they go somewhere else split.

While I am not opposed to the party splitting up... I am opposed to catering the adventure to smaller groups.... I was planning on talking to the group before the next session and explaining that I do not prefer split groups because it is less fun for everyone... while 2 guys run off on an adventure 4 people are sitting their twiddling their thumbs waiting for me to get to them so they can have their turns.... and it is VERY dangerous to do that... if they decide to split up at the wrong time and walk into a dragon lair... well it wont be pretty..

2) This one is probably the most troublesome for me and the one I need the most help with. The rogue of the party is constantly running to the treasures... looting the bodies first... going to assassinate someone alone to reap solo exp... you get the picture. While he is having fun... the rest of the group just sits and waits... last night several party members ended up getting on facebook because of the 30 minute wait period.... Well the group downed a boss guy and the rogue runs to the treasure chest, takes all the gold and the only magic item inside without consulting or telling party. I had him roll sleight of hand and the closest other PC roll perception... Perception PC rolled 1 and so the group was upset. They didnt say anything right then but came up to me later to complain that this guy is stealing their loot like that.

So I basically told them this is something the party is going to have to work out... I feel like if I punish the rogue by making it a cursed weapon or any of a hundred other things that I am being a bully. I do feel what he is doing is a jerk move but I feel the players should approach the character in game when they see he has a new magic sword and ask some questions... I AM probably going to talk to the rogue out of game before the next session and let him know that he is treading a fine line and that if the party decides to kill his character or just tell his character to leave the group... there is nothing I can do to help him.

So fellow heroes... what say you? Should I do something different?

First, I'll talk about split parties. Keep it interesting. It is harder since they are sneaking off while he is sleeping, but all you need to do is set up a strong wind that blows out the fire (and tell the sleeping PC that it can provide an impetus to wake up). After all, if the guard left then who is tending the fire? Once the rest of the group is conscious, you can pull a back-and-forth so both groups get to do their thing.

Alternatively, traps can be the greatest enemies of split groups as they might be missing the tools they normally have to bypass a given trap.

For the rogue, that player is a jerk. Do remember that the rogue doesn't have to beat the Perception roll of the other player unless he is actively trying to spot him. Instead, he does passive Perception (10+modifiers). So the Perception he had to beat should have been 9 higher. Other things can catch him, though. Detect Magic will light up his magic items, he will have to roll Sleight of Hand again if he wants to get anything out of where he stored the stash, and the party should become suspicious when the rogue dashes ahead and the chests also happen to be empty.

[Slipperychicken]

So fellow heroes... what say you? Should I do something different?

1) Let the NPCs kill them or screw them over when they do stupid stuff like that. Feel free to give them a general OOC warning: that you balanced the encounters around the full party being there, and they may be deadly if the party is short-handed. Also you can ask them about splitting up, why they do it, and mention that it's clear to you that they're not having fun when they have to wait that long for other groups to finish.

2) Tell the rogue player OOC to cut it out or you'll have to cut him out. The party theft, the attempts at XP-hogging, all of it. Those shenanigans are not fun for anyone but him, they make other people miserable during their free time when they should be having fun, and if he doesn't show respect for his fellow players both in-game and out, then he will not be welcome at your table. And obviously you should make good on that statement if he does not comply. Only thing you should do about IC is ask everyone if they're okay with retconning most of the thefts and other shenanigans; that could help smooth over some of the hurt feelings.

[Toadkiller]

The one they leave behind is woken up by something as soon as they are out of earshot. They are "adventuring" off screen while the other player has 9 kinds of fun, gets loot, etc. They come back in time to miss it all. Nothing happens to them at all. Repeat as needed, it won't take much.

Stop giving XP. Move to the milestone method and his single kills are either really, really mean and tough and/or have absent or cursed loot.

[Hrugner]

Generally speaking, non-party activities aren't xp granting encounters at my table. If someone runs off and kills things on their own while everyone else is sleeping that's cool, but hand wave it with no dice and get back to the game. "You run off and find some guys and kill them, they had nothing of interest."

With the pvp stuff, let them know that the game rules are an abstraction that manages party versus world stuff and that pvp is entirely DM's discretion for the result.

[saeval]

I know you are new to being the one in control, and trying to make sure everyone gets what they want, but to do that, you need to set some parameters here. A thief that thinks its okay to steal from the people he trusts his life to on a daily basis... isn't gonna last long. The group matters. Tell them you'd prefer if Scooby Doo-ing didn't happen, simply because it slows everything down.

I tell my friends when I run my stories that I expect them to work together and play off of each other. It's kinda like improv, where you generally say "yes" or set up an agreeable position to another persons suggestion. I'll even tell them that I want "heroic" characters or if shadier ones would work, depending on what I feel like running. You are a major part of the game process, and you have to include yourself when you factor in the happiness levels at the table. I'm sure it feels lousy trying to be a ref while they fight among themselves. It's a good way to burn out fast from wanting to DM.

I mean, basically, talk frankly to them, they are your friends after all. If it's cause of time constraints, tell them that. If it is because it makes balancing fights too difficult, tell them that. If you just plain don't find it fun to manage a split party, tell them that as well. Communicate.

[TheFlyingCleric]

The best option available is to convince them to play nice of their own accord. Explain why what they're doing is wrong and not fun for the other players. Once you have made this clear, explain how he could fix these issues. Try to show them the fun available in cooperative roleplaying.

Throughout, be polite to the player and try to have an attitude of 'understanding DM'. A non-hostile approach will improve the chance of a favourable outcome.


However, you must remember that this problem must be solved, or else. If you can get him aboard the fellow-ship, that's good. But if you can't solve it with their cooperation, then you must solve it without. Whether by afflicting him with some really pinpoint karma (as you attempt to leave your campsite, you accidentally step on a rake (DEX save DC 30 or unconscious until end of long rest)) until he (hopefully) gets the message, or by kicking him from the group together, it's a problem that cannot simply be ignored.

[JackPhoenix]

A lot has been said about OOC solutions. There are IC solutions too, if the players don't listen to reason

1) If they split up without a good reason, do not hesitate to kill or capture them. They brought it on themselves, good luck getting out of BBEG's torture chamber when none of your friends knows you're there.

2) Traps. Less useful for looted bodies, but if he wants to loot boss's stuff while the rest of the party is still fighting him, trap will either cause the theft to take more time, giving the party an opportunity to notice the rogue is not there, or hit him, revealing his shennanigans immediately. Trap doesn't have to be damaging... alarms work good enough in that respect.
Cursed items: make the rogue regret he didn't wait until the casters check if the magic items are safe. Very old-school solution.
Sleight of Hand or no, the characters aren't stupid... the rogue is first to rush to any dead body, even if the characters won't notice he looted their stuff, they know that, and they could get suspicious when they don't have any valuables on them. Or if the large sack of coins the guard had on his belt during the fight suddenly disappeared. Same with chests... even if they don't see the rogue take things from the chest, they see him messing with it instead of fighting the boss, and after the battle, the chest is empty... it doesn't take a genius to make conclusions.

[Clistenes]

I feel like if I punish the rogue by making it a cursed weapon or any of a hundred other things that I am being a bully.

Let him bump into the big boss monster next time he tries something like that. He can't accuse you of being a bully, since that's a risk he should be aware of. Make the other characters roll a perception check to notice the fight, and if they fail, he's alone.

[MrStabby]

Actually the cursed item might work (better to talk, but a good second best). A cursed dagger that made the bearer always sing or similar would dampen stealth rolls and would make the PC dependant on the rest of the party for a remove curse spell. Party can hold off helping till he reforms.

A more moderate approach is to add to the plot hook that there are a lot of cursed items in the dungeon - then there is fair warning.

[Corran]

Alright so I am a relatively new DM and am unsure what to do over a couple things.

1) My players keep splitting up and going off in 2s and 3s... .usually while another one is sleeping and without consulting one another... The most recent time it happened 2 PCs walk into 3 bad guys and one guy goes down in round1.... the other PC ends up reviving him and they run away... and I kind of allowed it because I didnt want to actually kill their character and figured this would teach them a lesson... nect minute same PC is suggesting they go somewhere else split.

While I am not opposed to the party splitting up... I am opposed to catering the adventure to smaller groups.... I was planning on talking to the group before the next session and explaining that I do not prefer split groups because it is less fun for everyone... while 2 guys run off on an adventure 4 people are sitting their twiddling their thumbs waiting for me to get to them so they can have their turns.... and it is VERY dangerous to do that... if they decide to split up at the wrong time and walk into a dragon lair... well it wont be pretty..

2) This one is probably the most troublesome for me and the one I need the most help with. The rogue of the party is constantly running to the treasures... looting the bodies first... going to assassinate someone alone to reap solo exp... you get the picture. While he is having fun... the rest of the group just sits and waits... last night several party members ended up getting on facebook because of the 30 minute wait period.... Well the group downed a boss guy and the rogue runs to the treasure chest, takes all the gold and the only magic item inside without consulting or telling party. I had him roll sleight of hand and the closest other PC roll perception... Perception PC rolled 1 and so the group was upset. They didnt say anything right then but came up to me later to complain that this guy is stealing their loot like that.

So I basically told them this is something the party is going to have to work out... I feel like if I punish the rogue by making it a cursed weapon or any of a hundred other things that I am being a bully. I do feel what he is doing is a jerk move but I feel the players should approach the character in game when they see he has a new magic sword and ask some questions... I AM probably going to talk to the rogue out of game before the next session and let him know that he is treading a fine line and that if the party decides to kill his character or just tell his character to leave the group... there is nothing I can do to help him.

So fellow heroes... what say you? Should I do something different?
1) First rule of d&d: never split the party! Breaking this rule can be fun and even advised under rare circumstances (I know I have done so a couple of times), but most likely it will lead to trouble. But do not worry, after a couple of character deaths they will learn better. People sometimes have to learn the hard way. And you should not go out of your way to save their *sses every time they do it, especially if they do not do it smartly or for a reason. That would be like rewarding them for monopolizing game time for no good reason, all while the rest of the party who is left behind is forced to watch them play the game and themselves doing nothing. It is a team's game. Let them learn that lesson.

2) Regarding the loot, that is something you have to leave to the party to sort out among themselves, imo. Dont pick sides, dont make the magic item be a cursed one, to teach the greedy rogue a lesson. Dont wink at the rest of the party members or show them support regarding this matter in any other way. Let them deal with it. That is an issue that needs to be roleplayed, and solved only through in-game interaction (or out of game but only between the players - you are the DM, dont take sides on this one, stay outside of it, because even though the rogue is pulling some d*** moves, it is a solid rp on his part, cliche but solid, greedy rogue and such). What you could do though, and I am not sure why you did differently in the last occassion, is NOT allow a sleight of hand check. Why did you in the first place? Skill checks require a chance of success in the first place. You dont just roll dice and if roll well you can do sth. You must have a chance at success before you even roll, otherwise there is no need to even roll. For example, with the whole party present, even if they are not actively staring at the chest with the loot, but present in the same room, I would not even allow the rogue at a chance of secretly opening the chest under their noses, unless he could cause some sort of distraction, but even then, it would have to be some major and long going distraction, as he is opening a chest, which perhaps creeks upon opening. Only then and if the rogue surprised me with a well though and cunning distraction, would I allow him to roll for sleight of hand, otherwise the rest of the party just notices him. Have him roll if he insists, and whetever he rolls, the other players notice him, they dont have to roll anything, remember, rolls only happen when there is a chance at succeeding.

I know most people would not take kindly to what I am about to suggest to you now, but it seems to me that it would benefit your game greatly. Take it or leave it, your choice. Here it goes. Do common xp. Does the rogue takes the bulk of the xp by assassinating monsters? That hurts the party. Seriously it does. The party scales in levels unequally, and before long, the frontliner who is below expexted level, has to deal with more and more difficult monsters, and soonner or later he gets killed because of that. Or sth else along these lines happens. XP-hunting can break a campaign apart, either trhough creating such imbalance within the party, or through just railroading roleplaying in such a way that makes for bad and boring campaigns. Does player X want to have his character not go into the dungeon that the party wants to go into to complete side quest B, and he doesnt want his character go in there for a very good rp reason? Guess what, if his character wont share xp, 99.9999% of all players will screw rp and have their character join the side quest. So, regarding the rogue going forth assassinating, which is part of his job description (ie he is not doing sth wrong), either handle out no xp, or split it among the party. Do it at the end of the session if that makes things easier for you, or at the end of quests. And avoid handling xp to every character seperately or as a reward. Soon enough, everyone will start asking for their own share of xp, and quite frankly, why shouldnt they? The ranger would take xp for foraging ffor the party, the paladin for that good diplomacy check, the barbarian for that str check that opened to them the dungeon entrance, the wizard for research, etc.... It is a team game, if someone is after xp let them do it by completing quests and moving the story forward with the rest of the party, not by going on solo adventures when the rest of the party sleeps. Try it out, and be firm about it, it may benefit your game greatly, and as far as I can understand, your party would benefit from some enforced teamwork.

[caden_varn]

Adding to what has already been said about stealing from the chest - be sure what the rogue tries to do is reasonable. Grabbing a handful of gold from the chest without being noticed is possible - stealing all the gold is not, assuming there is more than a pouchful there. The more he tries to steal, the bigger penalty he gets to sleight of hand.

Also remember that a 1 is not an autofail on a skill roll. So if the rogue has a big negative, which should be the case if he is trying to clear out a whole chest in a few seconds) he could still be noticed.

But an OOC chat is in order first and foremost, as many others have said already. Game must be fun for all, including the DM.

[mig el pig]

Why all the dogmatic hate against splitting the party? Half of the suggested solutions here is killing of the offending character so they "learn" to never do that again. I know it's taxing as a GM and difficult if you're group is bigger then 4 players. But then again, everything is more difficult, when you're with such a big group.

It's roleplaying and not the human CentiDNDpede who must stick together.

Other options instead of killing of PC's:

- Appoint the non-active PC's as NPC's:

For example: 2 of your players are trying to gather info in a seedy neighbourhood at night and run into 2/4 thugs.

DM: Steve, you are Grim the Stalker, bloodthirsty rogue with 2 knives, Dave you're a minor illusionist called Fandango who grew up on these streets, both of you are out chilling with 2 gangmembers (generic name 1 and 2) when you notice someone is asking the wrong kind of questions . Steve, when you look at them you notice the 2 strangers, and worse, your lieutenant warned you about them, luckly their are only 2 of them, the Paladin of Bofrost and the halfling are nowhere in sight.

DM: Harald the Skald, while asking around you suddenly notice you're getting some attention from someone who looks a lot like the person you were looking for. What do you do?

And by doing this everyone at the table is invested in the scene. In addition the NPC's are more memorable and if they are recurring some players will like their NPC just as much as some characters.
In a mature group this work wonders but just in case: make clear that as dm you can take over from an npc if needed and since they are now playing NPC's they should work with the "constraints of the settings"

- 5 minute scenes like on the TV

If the party is split just rotate rapidly between every scene(max 5 minutes). In every scene you'll take just a few actions. Everyone has something to do and between 2 scenes your players can think about you're next action (or what you want to say/ask) I even noticed it reduces downtime because players want to get back into the action when it's their "scene" again. They can discuss tactics or options when the others are busy.

- Split the party like a boss

If it's near the end of a session and it's looking like the party will be split for some time you can organise 2 mini-sessions where both groups have their own adventure.

- Option D, (nearly) all of the above

[Mandarin]

1) What you could do though, and I am not sure why you did differently in the last occassion, is NOT allow a sleight of hand check. Why did you in the first place? Skill checks require a chance of success in the first place. You dont just roll dice and if roll well you can do sth. You must have a chance at success before you even roll, otherwise there is no need to even roll. For example, with the whole party present, even if they are not actively staring at the chest with the loot, but present in the same room, I would not even allow the rogue at a chance of secretly opening the chest under their noses, unless he could cause some sort of distraction, but even then, it would have to be some major and long going distraction, as he is opening a chest, which perhaps creeks upon opening. Only then and if the rogue surprised me with a well though and cunning distraction, would I allow him to roll for sleight of hand, otherwise the rest of the party just notices him. Have him roll if he insists, and whetever he rolls, the other players notice him, they dont have to roll anything, remember, rolls only happen when there is a chance at succeeding.



The rogue and one PC were in an area the rest of the group could not see. In hindsight I should have just said they see you looting the chest. This is defnitely going to be a good lesson for me on how to handle groups. My group is 6 people, 7 when everyone shows. Everyone is having a blast still but I am going to give a little speech on not splitting, that this is a team game and because of that it will always be shared exp from here on out. I will also tell the rogue to stop stealing loot like that in private and ask the whole group if they want a pvp oriented game or a group oriented game. When they say group oriented I will say then by consensus there will be no more stealing from group loot... a few gold here and there but no more... I will also make sure the rogue doesnt get useful loot for awhile since he already has so much.

What I did do when he went off and assassinated a guy in the streets at night is said the bad guys friends came out looking for the trouble... found their friend.... and killed the first person they saw... which was an innocent young boy walking home.... That WILL negatively impact the rogue when he gets back to town.

[Vogonjeltz]

Other options instead of killing of PC's:

I like these alot. In particular I was going to suggest #2, toggling between the split persons, as an acceptable alternative.

That being said, Mandarin, I'd try to keep it real in some fashion; Let the players know before you have the next session that, if they put their necks out, and overextend, you won't be pulling punches so their characters could be killed.

1) That serves as a warning to the soloists that they don't get plot armor, which maybe they are relying on...or it might turn out they fully expected the possibility they could be killed, but thought that made the whole experience more fun.

2) As DM you can fully control what the soloist does or doesn't come across, you are also responsible for making the judgment calls on what is or isn't possible.

If you want to discourage a solo outing in the middle of the night simply present some obstacles that allow the player to dissuade themselves from proceeding alone. (i.e. It's night time. Can they see in the dark? How far? Do they even know where they are going? Characters have a chance of getting lost while traveling in the wilderness, and most Rogues don't really have the skillset (Survival, Wisdom) for making those checks; Secondly the Rogue might come across enough opposition that they choose to return to camp rather than trying to do it themselves).

3) The characters aren't blind. If they're in a room, they should obviously see that the Rogue is looting through the bodies, if there's a hoard (i.e. treasure chests) and you determine there's no plausible means for the Rogue to obscure grabbing any treasure, then it can't be obscured and slight of hand won't make a bit of difference. And depending on the size of the magic item in question, there's likely to be no chance at all of hiding it.

Lastly one question:

Did the characters make an agreement on how rewards and booty were to be divided amongst the party?

i.e. An adventuring party contract: Each member gets a full and equal share of any spoils found.

If so, the Rogue has clearly violated that...so if the rest of the party chooses to kill him, allow it.

If not, tell them to sit down and create a contract dictating how the characters themselves expect anything to be shared, along with punitive measures for violations (i.e. complete forfeiture of all loot, expulsion from the group, possibly death).

There may be an informal agreement amongst the characters (not the players, but the characters) in which case the Rogue has probably already violated that.

[wunderkid]

Personally I'm a big fan of letting the players dictate the course of action here.

As it has been mentioned the Rogue always going there and looting first and when the group gets there he claims there is nothing there.

Now that's a sleight of hand and a deception roll.

He fails either and the group have a perfectly permissable reason to lynch him.

Or at the very least hire a bard or cleric with the zone of truth spell and ask him to answer yes or no: have you stolen the loot previously.

This will either get the Rogue a) PKd (rightfully so) b) booted out of the group and therefore basically unplayable any more c) repentant and becomes a functioning member of the group or d) pretends to repent but will get caught out eventually at which point it only becomes options a, b and c.

Doing anything with GM God powers kinda sucks.

Whenever I play a disruptive member of the group like this I do so with the interest of creating a group that aren't all happy tree hugging friends. And I'm never sour when I get caught out. In fact that's kind of the aim and what makes that character fun taking the risks and dealing with the consequences.

It gets boring when the GM goes 'a mysterious anvil falls on your head write up a new character '

As the GM you are more than welcome to point out these things to the player, my advice would be not to directly meddle though

[wunderkid]

Whoops my phone double posted

[Laserlight]

When they say group oriented I will say then by consensus there will be no more stealing from group loot... a few gold here and there but no more...

I wouldn't give the option for "a few gold here and there", because that's just opening the door to stealing from the party.

Also point out before they vote, so they know what the deal is, that PvP when it's six against one is not "You have a chance to keep your loot and outwit the party by getting away", but rather "I'm not going to bother to play it out. The rogue dies and is buried in a shallow hole in the woods. Roll your new character."

[Vogonjeltz]

I wouldn't give the option for "a few gold here and there", because that's just opening the door to stealing from the party.

Also point out before they vote, so they know what the deal is, that PvP when it's six against one is not "You have a chance to keep your loot and outwit the party by getting away", but rather "I'm not going to bother to play it out. The rogue dies and is buried in a shallow hole in the woods. Roll your new character."

If it comes to pvp, don't fiat it.

The Rogue might escape, and then become an NPC recurring foe/color character.

i.e. They encounter him later, and it's a "Hey guys no hard feelings eh?" Situation.

Whoever the player re-rolls as would need to be initiated into the party under whatever profit-sharing agreement they come to.

[Sir cryosin]

Alright so I am a relatively new DM and am unsure what to do over a couple things.

1) My players keep splitting up and going off in 2s and 3s... .usually while another one is sleeping and without consulting one another... The most recent time it happened 2 PCs walk into 3 bad guys and one guy goes down in round1.... the other PC ends up reviving him and they run away... and I kind of allowed it because I didnt want to actually kill their character and figured this would teach them a lesson... nect minute same PC is suggesting they go somewhere else split.

While I am not opposed to the party splitting up... I am opposed to catering the adventure to smaller groups.... I was planning on talking to the group before the next session and explaining that I do not prefer split groups because it is less fun for everyone... while 2 guys run off on an adventure 4 people are sitting their twiddling their thumbs waiting for me to get to them so they can have their turns.... and it is VERY dangerous to do that... if they decide to split up at the wrong time and walk into a dragon lair... well it wont be pretty..

2) This one is probably the most troublesome for me and the one I need the most help with. The rogue of the party is constantly running to the treasures... looting the bodies first... going to assassinate someone alone to reap solo exp... you get the picture. While he is having fun... the rest of the group just sits and waits... last night several party members ended up getting on facebook because of the 30 minute wait period.... Well the group downed a boss guy and the rogue runs to the treasure chest, takes all the gold and the only magic item inside without consulting or telling party. I had him roll sleight of hand and the closest other PC roll perception... Perception PC rolled 1 and so the group was upset. They didnt say anything right then but came up to me later to complain that this guy is stealing their loot like that.

So I basically told them this is something the party is going to have to work out... I feel like if I punish the rogue by making it a cursed weapon or any of a hundred other things that I am being a bully. I do feel what he is doing is a jerk move but I feel the players should approach the character in game when they see he has a new magic sword and ask some questions... I AM probably going to talk to the rogue out of game before the next session and let him know that he is treading a fine line and that if the party decides to kill his character or just tell his character to leave the group... there is nothing I can do to help him.

So fellow heroes... what say you? Should I do something different?

Let the party split and if they run into the dragon and kill them well they shouldn't have done that.
Other then that let the Sleeping pc a perception check dc 5 so they can wake up and catch them leaving.

The lving thing my dm uses shared exp so we all lv up together because there will be times were we shine more then other people and it get rid of your problem and book keeping. For the rogue looting put traps and alarms on and around the treasure so the rogue has to spend time to disarmed giving the party time to see what he's doing or catch up. With all this a device that everybody's giving you the one thing you need to do no matter what is drink all this to your players and everyone talk it out.

[BrianDavion]

if your rogue is runnin g ahead to kill bad guys by himself for the solo XP, that's a mistake on your part. don't assign solo XP, assign group XP no matter what.

secondly if he's stealing from the group give the others spot checks, eventually he'll fail it, and then let the rest of the group know that "you're welcome to take the steps you want to punish him.

I was running a Conan D20 game once, someone decided since he was playing a theif (best thing 3rd edition did was remove the name thief, to man y people saw the class name as a lisence to be a kleptomanic) he'd try and steal some of the group treasure before it was divvy;d up. I very calmly noted to "the Cimmerian barbarian in the party has a pretty good spot check. and I WILL be giving him a spot check to see your stealing. please understand, given his character's tribal honor system, not only would I as a DM not stop him for killing you, I'd reward him extra XP for roleplaying his character well... now you're welcome to steal but well.. you've been warned"

the thief opted NOT to steal

[Crgaston]

Why all the dogmatic hate against splitting the party? Half of the suggested solutions here is killing of the offending character so they "learn" to never do that again. I know it's taxing as a GM and difficult if you're group is bigger then 4 players. But then again, everything is more difficult, when you're with such a big group.

It's roleplaying and not the human CentiDNDpede who must stick together.

Other options instead of killing of PC's:

- Appoint the non-active PC's as NPC's:

For example: 2 of your players are trying to gather info in a seedy neighbourhood at night and run into 2/4 thugs.

DM: Steve, you are Grim the Stalker, bloodthirsty rogue with 2 knives, Dave you're a minor illusionist called Fandango who grew up on these streets, both of you are out chilling with 2 gangmembers (generic name 1 and 2) when you notice someone is asking the wrong kind of questions . Steve, when you look at them you notice the 2 strangers, and worse, your lieutenant warned you about them, luckly their are only 2 of them, the Paladin of Bofrost and the halfling are nowhere in sight.

DM: Harald the Skald, while asking around you suddenly notice you're getting some attention from someone who looks a lot like the person you were looking for. What do you do?

And by doing this everyone at the table is invested in the scene. In addition the NPC's are more memorable and if they are recurring some players will like their NPC just as much as some characters.
In a mature group this work wonders but just in case: make clear that as dm you can take over from an npc if needed and since they are now playing NPC's they should work with the "constraints of the settings"

- 5 minute scenes like on the TV

If the party is split just rotate rapidly between every scene(max 5 minutes). In every scene you'll take just a few actions. Everyone has something to do and between 2 scenes your players can think about you're next action (or what you want to say/ask) I even noticed it reduces downtime because players want to get back into the action when it's their "scene" again. They can discuss tactics or options when the others are busy.

- Split the party like a boss

If it's near the end of a session and it's looking like the party will be split for some time you can organise 2 mini-sessions where both groups have their own adventure.

- Option D, (nearly) all of the above

If the players are OK with splitting up, all these are golden suggestions on how to run it!