GET OVER HERE! How do I reel in my enemies?

[Snappy]

I was making a maneuver-based character to face my players, and I started thinking: after tripping someone with bolas, is there a way to quickly pull them toward you? If so, is there a way to do it from a wide distance, like across gaps? My first thought was to use +1 returning bolas, but would they still return if they're wrapped around someone?

[Ignatius Flamel]

There is something exactly appropriate for you:

The Wolf Trip feat.
(Requirements: Improved Unarmed Strike, Wolf Style, Knowledge(Nature) 6 ranks)

It doesn't matter where the tripped opponent is when you trip him -> you can use a Toppling Magic Missile or Bola to trip someone 100ft away and use Wolf Trip to " choose an available square adjacent to you for the tripped creature to land prone in."



Some people from the "BUT it was *obviously* not intended this way!!" crowd may protest, but the rules are clear on this.

[Secret Wizard]

Ah, yes, I made this character.

1. Far Strike Monk.

2. Ranged Trip feat.

3. Ki Throw feat.

4. Use the Ki Missile feature while making a Ranged Trip to activate Ki Throw and trip your enemies right to a square adjacent to you.

5. Remember you can only Flurry with thrown weapons... but that doesn't mean it needs to be a ranged flurry. Feel free to maul those close to you to death.

[Psyren]

There is something exactly appropriate for you:

The Wolf Trip feat.
(Requirements: Improved Unarmed Strike, Wolf Style, Knowledge(Nature) 6 ranks)

It doesn't matter where the tripped opponent is when you trip him -> you can use a Toppling Magic Missile or Bola to trip someone 100ft away and use Wolf Trip to " choose an available square adjacent to you for the tripped creature to land prone in."



Some people from the "BUT it was *obviously* not intended this way!!" crowd may protest, but the rules are clear on this.

Depends on how your GM interprets the phrase "while using Wolf Style." If you/they interpret it to mean that Wolf Style merely has to be active, this works. But if you/they interpret it to mean that Wolf Style has to be actively used as part of the trip attempt itself (which in the case of Toppling Magic Missile, it's not, unless you can somehow do that as an AoO) then this does not work. It could go either way.

[MilleniaAntares]

If your DM doesn't mind third party, you can use this weapon special ability: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/equipment/psionic-items/psionic-weapons#TOC-Wrenching

Keep in mind it was probably created before the creation of the drag combat maneuver, so ask your GM if you can just use your drag CMB instead of reposition CMB.

[Kurald Galain]

I was making a maneuver-based character to face my players, and I started thinking: after tripping someone with bolas, is there a way to quickly pull them toward you? If so, is there a way to do it from a wide distance, like across gaps? My first thought was to use +1 returning bolas, but would they still return if they're wrapped around someone?

Although the wolf trip combo mentioned above is funnier, a straightforward way of doing this is by wielding a whip and using various ways to increase your size and/or reach. For example, a potion of Enlarge.

Then use the Tactical Reposition feat.

[CharonsHelper]

There is something exactly appropriate for you:

The Wolf Trip feat.
(Requirements: Improved Unarmed Strike, Wolf Style, Knowledge(Nature) 6 ranks)

It doesn't matter where the tripped opponent is when you trip him -> you can use a Toppling Magic Missile or Bola to trip someone 100ft away and use Wolf Trip to " choose an available square adjacent to you for the tripped creature to land prone in."



Some people from the "BUT it was *obviously* not intended this way!!" crowd may protest, but the rules are clear on this.

Combine it with the Ranged Trip feat and you can use any ranged weapon to drag them to you while doing damage.

Combine it with the Ace Trip feat and you can drag flying creatures to the ground next to you. (I'm not sure about their falling damage in that case though.)

(Also of note - Wolf Trip never says that they square in question has to be safe.)

Frankly - I wouldn't ever make a build around it, but the combination is just the sort of thing that the Brawler's martial flexibility would come in handy for.

[frost890]

Animated rope should work or maybe a grapple gun. I had a character that had an animated rope dart tied in to their hair.

[digiman619]

If your DM doesn't mind third party, you can use this weapon special ability: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/equipment/psionic-items/psionic-weapons#TOC-Wrenching

Keep in mind it was probably created before the creation of the drag combat maneuver, so ask your GM if you can just use your drag CMB instead of reposition CMB.

From the same book there's the power Ectoplasmic grapnel that let's you pull things from close range and/or pull yourself toward it.

[Snappy]

Thanks everyone, these are really good suggestions. I guess I forgot to mention that I'm the GM of the game, sorry about that. My players are a dex fighter (archer who refuses to close with an enemy), a druid, a rogue, and someone joining in later (unsure on class). I've been trying to think of unique situations to throw at the players, and realized that I've never seen someone use Scorpion's signature move on someone, even if it would be really effective against certain characters.

[Secret Wizard]

Seems to me like that party's biggest weakness is combat maneuvers in general.

[Endarire]

You could just use the telekinesis spell, but that's against the spirit of this challenge.

[Snappy]

You could just use the telekinesis spell, but that's against the spirit of this challenge.

I've been playing 3.5 for years, and only now am I told that telekinesis is this handy? I feel much shame now...

[upho]

If you'd like to go truly bananas with Wolf Trip, combine it with a Shield Champion brawler 7 using two Maelstrom shields and a Blinkback Belt (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?454387-Wolf-Trip-Shield-Champion-Intimidation-Martial-Control-of-Gravitas). I've used this "Black Hole Control Combo" for a famous gladiator NPC in my game, with frequently hilarious results and him absolutely and utterly dominating martial combat in the arena. It's ludicrously effective against anything trippable, but becomes rather limited when facing immune enemies.


Depends on how your GM interprets the phrase "while using Wolf Style." If you/they interpret it to mean that Wolf Style merely has to be active, this works. But if you/they interpret it to mean that Wolf Style has to be actively used as part of the trip attempt itself (which in the case of Toppling Magic Missile, it's not, unless you can somehow do that as an AoO) then this does not work. It could go either way.Sorry, but I find it grossly misleading to even suggest this might be a question, and much less something that "could go either way". If your DM can read, this is simply not true.

"Using" a style feat is clearly referred to as being in "the stance employed by the fighting style a style feat embodies" in the general rules for style feats. And on top of this, Wolf Style itself says:

"Benefit While using this style, whenever you..."

So even according to the specific RAW for Wolf Style, you are indeed using Wolf Style while you're in the Wolf Style stance, not just when making AoOs. And Wolf Trip says (my emphasis):

"While using Wolf Style, whenever you successfully trip a creature, as a free action you..."

It does not say "If you succeed at the free trip attempt granted by Wolf Style, as a free action you..." or anything similar to suggest the trip refers only to the free trip granted by Wolf Style.

In addition, there are probably quite a few style feat chains that simply wouldn't work if they were somehow only active when performing the action referred to in the first feat in the chain.

[Kurald Galain]

It does not say "If you succeed at the free trip attempt granted by Wolf Style, as a free action you..." or anything similar to suggest the trip refers only to the free trip granted by Wolf Style.

See, this reasoning is similar to films like Air Bud, i.e. "There's no rule that explicitly forbids dogs from playing basketball, therefore it's allowed." There's a whole trope about it (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AirBudClause).

Although that's very funny in concept, professional sports don't work that way, and neither do roleplaying games. If you find an obscure combination that isn't covered in the rules either way, such as Wolf-Styling a Magic Missile, then it's up to the GM to decide. This is because it simply isn't possible to write rules for every possible combination of actions. It does not mean that "there's no rule against it therefore it works".

[Psyren]

"Benefit While using this style, whenever you..."

So even according to the specific RAW for Wolf Style, you are indeed using Wolf Style while you're in the Wolf Style stance, not just when making AoOs.

But you're not using it to make the AoO. So it depends on how your GM parses the English language phrase "while using."

In other words, what Kurald said.

[upho]

See, this reasoning is similar to films like Air Bud, i.e. "There's no rule that explicitly forbids dogs from playing basketball, therefore it's allowed." There's a whole trope about it (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AirBudClause).

Although that's very funny in concept, professional sports don't work that way, and neither do roleplaying games. If you find an obscure combination that isn't covered in the rules either way, such as Wolf-Styling a Magic Missile, then it's up to the GM to decide. This is because it simply isn't possible to write rules for every possible combination of actions. It does not mean that "there's no rule against it therefore it works".I absolutely agree, but it appears this argument misses the whole point in this case. I wrote an example of what Wolf Trip does not say because both the general rules for style feats as well as the specific rules for both Wolf Style feats allow the proverbial "dogs to play basketball" in this case, and Wolf Trip would have to include language similar to that of my example in order to actually keep the doggies away from the court.

This is not a case of the Air Bud trope, and the question isn't whether you should be able to "Wolf-Style a magic missile" or not (which is of course completely up to the DM). Instead, it's almost the opposite, a case of both general and specific rules very clearly allowing something, and the question is whether the RAW says Wolf Trip is triggered when successfully making any trip, or only when successfully making the free trip attempt Wolf Style may grant. So not quite as crazy as basketball-playing doggies.

Can you see why I think it's misleading to say the relevant RAW is ambiguous, and that this has nothing to do with the Air Bud trope or the appropriateness of "Wolf Style cheese missiles"?


But you're not using it to make the AoO. So it depends on how your GM parses the English language phrase "while using."I don't really follow. You're never using Wolf Style to make any AoOs, and the relevant sentence in Wolf Trip says nothing about AoOs. If you meant to say "But you're not using it to make the trip.", I think you're simply not reading the RAW of Wolf Trip carefully enough. More specifically, I cannot see how you can read the RAW as if it said:

"Whenever you use Wolf Style to successfully trip a creature, as a free action you..."

But the actual RAW doesn't say anything to suggest it's benefits depend on you using Wolf Style to do anything at all. However, it does say its benefits depend on you doing certain things while using Wolf Style.


In other words, what Kurald said.AFAICT, Kurald wasn't talking about what the RAW says, more about what the RAW doesn't say (which isn't relevant in this case). And I'm sorry for not clarifying the reason I find your claim misleading has nothing to do with whether Wolf Trip should be (ab)usable with Toppling Spell, but everything to do with you saying the RAW is ambiguous.