Poisonous Blood: Damage vs. Condition

[aburnley1]

Hello all, I was hoping to gather some opinions regarding the potency of poison damage versus the Poisoned condition. I am currently creating, with the help of my DM, a jungle elf character with the rare and dangerous capability of utilizing her own blood as a poison if she were to deal at least 1 damage to herself, or else get bitten by a creature. Originally this poison required a Constitution saving throw with a DC set to 8 + her proficiency bonus + her Constitution modifier, dealing 2d6 poison damage and bestowing the Poisoned condition for 1 minute on a failed save, and half poison damage with no Poisoned condition on a successful save. This was then altered to only bestow the Poisoned condition for balance's sake, but I'd like to get some outside opinions. My concerns are as follows:

1) The Poisoned condition is powerful on its own, penalizing creatures with disadvantage on attack rolls and ability checks. It also stays potent no matter the character's level. However, it also means that no damage is taken, making the jungle elf's poisonous blood never truly a danger.

2) Making the blood only deal poison damage means that it would not level well, and be rendered obsolete by mid-to-late levels if the damage does not change.

Any suggestions for a decent balance that you all can provide would help tremendously. Thanks!

[JNAProductions]

Keep the Condition, but for gods' sakes, ALLOW A SAVING THROW TO SHAKE IT OFF EACH TURN!

Otherwise, it is OP as all hell.

[Notafish]

If they ever release a D&D 5.5, I hope they change the "poisoned" condition to the "sickened" condition (or some other word). The overlap (or lack thereof) between the condition and the damage type is confusing!

I'd probably just keep the poisoned condition (with repeating saves), or possibly with a shorter duration like, "end of next turn." Having the blood bestow a different condition might also be an option.

In game, why does the elf have poison blood? Is it a random mutation, or is there a reason that some jungle elves have weaponized blood? I could see a poison that allows follow-up attacks at advantage (affecting balance and bestowing a prone or brief paralyzed condition on a failed save, for instance) being an evolutionary adaptation or even a boon from a god of the hunt.

[Slipperychicken]

Here's what I'd do:

No poisoned condition
One-time damage dealing 1d4 poison damage, increasing up to 2d4 at level 5, 3d4 at level 11, and 4d4 at level 17. There is no save for half, because that's too much rolling.
A creature that makes a successful bite attack against the elf, or otherwise consumes her blood, is also subject to the poison damage.
Blood can be extracted from the elf and used as an injury or ingested poison, although extracting the blood reduces her current and maximum hit points by a number equal to her maximum hit dice. This reduction to her maximum hit points disappears 24 hours after extraction.
If blood is extracted from the elf for use as poison, it retains its potency for up to 24 hours or until it deals damage to a creature, after which point it loses its potency.



That makes biting you to death problematic, you can use it to apply a pretty good poison to your weapons, and it gives a noticeable cost to using it as a poison.

[JackPhoenix]

Here's what I'd do:

No poisoned condition
One-time damage dealing 1d4 poison damage, increasing up to 2d4 at level 5, 3d4 at level 11, and 4d4 at level 17. There is no save for half, because that's too much rolling.
A creature that makes a successful bite attack against the elf, or otherwise consumes her blood, is also subject to the poison damage.
Blood can be extracted from the elf and used as an injury or ingested poison, although extracting the blood reduces her current and maximum hit points by a number equal to her maximum hit dice. This reduction to her maximum hit points disappears 24 hours after extraction.
If blood is extracted from the elf for use as poison, it retains its potency for up to 24 hours or until it deals damage to a creature, after which point it loses its potency.



That makes biting you to death problematic, you can use it to apply a pretty good poison to your weapons, and it gives a noticeable cost to using it as a poison.

I would link the extraction cooldown to long rest, instead of flat 24 hour. The damage... I would up it to d6, or made it to scale like dragonborn's breath (with or without Con save, I'm not sure. It's using horrible damage type, it's not AoE and it weakens the character a little with every use... IMO, it's worse than dragonborn breath, and that one is already a weak racial ability)

[Slipperychicken]

I would link the extraction cooldown to long rest, instead of flat 24 hour. The damage... I would up it to d6, or made it to scale like dragonborn's breath (with or without Con save, I'm not sure. It's using horrible damage type, it's not AoE and it weakens the character a little with every use... IMO, it's worse than dragonborn breath, and that one is already a weak racial ability)

I was thinking about long rest at first, but then I realized that would incentivize them to drain themselves of blood right before bed each night so they don't have to actually deal with the hp drain. At that point it's basically several doses of free poison a day.

As for the damage, it is a horrible damage type, but it can be applied multiple times per day and automatically screws with enemies trying to bite her. That's basically insurance against wolves and other creatures reliant on bite attacks. d6s might be better, I was going with d4 out of caution. And I did make the number of dice scale less than the dragonborn breath weapon, which might be a little low. Also I thought it would be weird to have someone who actually wants enemies to bite her as part of a combat strategy.

[JackPhoenix]

I was thinking about long rest at first, but then I realized that would incentivize them to drain themselves of blood right before bed each night so they don't have to actually deal with the hp drain. At that point it's basically several doses of free poison a day.

As for the damage, it is a horrible damage type, but it can be applied multiple times per day and automatically screws with enemies trying to bite her. That's basically insurance against wolves and other creatures reliant on bite attacks. d6s might be better, I was going with d4 out of caution. And I did make the number of dice scale less than the dragonborn breath weapon, which might be a little low. Also I thought it would be weird to have someone who actually wants enemies to bite her as part of a combat strategy.

Good point on the rest... perhaps decreasing the time it stays potent? After all, blood doesn't stay unclotted (is that the right english term?) for that long.

[Oramac]

required a Constitution saving throw with a DC set to 8 + her proficiency bonus + her Constitution modifier, dealing 2d6 poison damage and bestowing the Poisoned condition for 1 minute on a failed save, and half poison damage with no Poisoned condition on a successful save.

I would keep it as is, except to allow the enemy a new saving throw at the beginning of each of its turns to end the effect.

[aburnley1]

Thank you to everyone who posted their suggestions--it was really helpful getting some outside opinions!