Making a Lore Bard for Princes of the Apocalypse

[Sjappo]

So, were going to start Princes of the Apocalypse in a few weeks and I finally get the chance to play a character instead of DM-ing. Joy!

Anyway, I've decided to go Lore Bard and I am spending way to much time on it.

Backstory: Allan a'Dale has been wandering the North for some 50-odd years. He was traveling for the sake of traveling and living of his knowledge. Selling news as it were. A carefree, optimistic, somewhat erratic vagabond. Nut he has seen the world change. He predates the Spellplague and the Sundering (if I have the FR timeline correctly) and he has decided that it is time to act. Recently he joined an adventuring band known as the Shadow Company and he has been scouted by the Lords' Alliance. His goal is to expand the Shadow Company into a full-fledged mercenary company which would be under indirect control of the Lords' Alliance. He functions as quartermaster for the Shadow Company.

Shadow Company consists of a Vengeance Paladin, a Shadow Monk, a, Arcane Trickster and a Champion Fighter.

As you can see I am the only full caster in this group. I've taken the role of emergency healer but I have made it clear that I won't save spellslots for cure wounds. The rest are typical Bardly type spells; buffs and debuffs. The Paladin and the Rogue will get some casting but I'm guessing we're going to be lacking utility.

I have a boatload of skills supplemented with expertise and JoAT. So, combined with the Rogue, the skills are more than covered.

Combat seems to be covered as well.

My questions lie in how to develop and build my character. We use the basic array. For now I've put my 14 in CHA, 15 in DEX and 13 in INT giving 16, 16, 14 respectively. I've dumped STR (8) and nearly dumped CON (10). The 12 goes to WIS, obviously.

Now, lvl 4 gives my first ASI. +2 CHA seems the obvious but boring choice. I am leaning towards Ritual Caster (Wizards) to get some utility spells. An other option would be going 15 CHA (+2 for 17) and taking Actor for CHA 18 and some goodies.
How crippling is it to ignore stat increases? By lvl 8 I would still be stuck on +3 if I choose only feats. Is this noticeable?

I have been thinking about dumping DEX to 12 as well. To up INT to 16 and WIS to 14. I think it would fit my character better but I have no way to compensate for the loss of AC. Would this be suicide? Dumping all physical stats?

BTW, I am not looking for multiclass options. Except, maybe, cleric if the lethality is to high for my liking. Or to compensate for low DEX if I would go that route.

Anyway, any advice is welcome. As are play experiences as a Bard with low physical stats.

[JeffreyGator]

My lore bard took inspiring leader @4th so that the party had a consistent HP buffer after every short rest. This plus the extra d6 when people are spending HD works for me. I use healing word as needed in combat and don't know cure wounds.

(It probably helped that I had rolled stats and so started mostly slightly better than you are.)

My low str (7) is manageable because we aren't using the optional encumbrance rules. Getting stuck in place by spider webs was a bit annoying however.

I wouldn't want to dump dex since dex weapons provide the primary means of ever dealing any damage. Vicious Mockery only goes so far.

At 5th level I may MC a level of wizard for more utility cantrips and being able to have all the level 1 rituals. (This lets me get most benefits of magic initiate (wizard) and ritual caster (wiz) for only a level 1 dip)

[MrStabby]

So my worry, mainly from theory rather than experience, is that you might run a bit low on spell slots, especially at low levels.

Wizards, land druids, sorcerers all get a spell slot replenishment ability. Warlocks get awesome at will damage, moon druids and clerics and valour bards can be respectable melee combatants and so on. Basically if you use your action each turn in a fight, and of your non spell options are not great then you might find yourself running a bit low on power.

To get round this spells that let you keep using your action like call lightening can be good, but I cannot think of any of those that work ok with a low lasting stat.

[SharkForce]

for feats, you could consider the inspiring leader feat.

to help with healing, the rogue could grab healer as well. he should be able to use a healer's kit with his mage hand as a bonus action during combat.

[Scaleybob]

I'm playing a Half- Elf Lore Bard at the moment, about to level to level 5 total. We used the standard points buy system.

I took a level in Life Cleric for better Healing and access to Bless, which has proven to be an awesomely useful spell. I'm a bit puzzled to why it's not on the Bard's Spell list. The Heavy Armour and Shield proficiencies, have been a fantastic bonus, as have the extra Cantrips, especially the Radiant Damage one for when you're fighting Undead, or want to do more that d4 damage. I wish I'd taken the Multiclass earlier than level 4.

Come Bard Level 4 I'll uping Cha, because: It's an extra Biting Words, as well as plus 1 to Healing, Spell effects and skills.

His Physical Stats are not great. Passable Con (12) for HP and Concentration, low Str, and Medium DEX,(14) mostly now for Stealth. Originally he wielded a Rapier and had medium armor, so DEX was important, but since multiclassing he's in Heavy Armor, so no need for DEX, and has a Shield in one hand, and the other free for spellcasting. As Vicious Mockery is a Save Spell, it isn't affected by being in melee with and enemy.

[Sjappo]

Hmmm, good points all.

Stat increase vs. Feat.
I like feats. They give a PC options it didn't have before, or changes how some options work. Stats just give the same options but more and better. Still, 20's in main stat(s) seem necessary, which I hate about 5E. But that is something for an other time.
Going Wizard 1 instead of Ritual Caster makes sense. I'll be the only full caster In the group so the delayed access to higher level spells will not be noticeable. Delayed access to some Bard features will hurt though.
Inspiring Leader is cool. Although I hope our Paladin will go for it. Probably not though.

Dumping DEX.
I think I will. Bards are proficient in DEX saves, so that is not completely tanked. I'll raise my WIS for a better save. Fits better with the 100+ year old Half-Elf concept as well. Raising WIS and INT will power Wizards spells better and access to Wizard cantrips will be a reasonable alternative for a bow and arrow or short sword.

Multiclassing.
Warlock 2 seems to be the optimum damage wise. Or even Warlock 1 for Eldritch Blast. Synergizes well. But it doesn't bring what I want.
Cleric 1 for armor, shields, domain goodies, Bless is nice as well. But I used to play a lot of holy warriors (paladin, sorcerer, crusader and cleric hybrids) before my stint as DM. I like playing this kind of characters but I purposely shying away from that now.
Wizard 1 seems to be the way to go for now. I'll probably start as Bard 2/Wizard 1 just to get it out of the way. And that way I'll get my ASI at CL5 and will give me one more level to decide if a +1 to casting stat is worth it.

Anyway, thanx all for the input.

[MrStabby]

Raising WIS and INT will power Wizards spells better and access to Wizard cantrips will be a reasonable alternative for a bow and arrow or short sword.


Are you talking about magical secrets here? They count as bard spells and will therefore use your charisma not Int. Or have I misunderstood you?

[krugaan]

I would dump Wis and take resilient: Wis instead. Dex is simply too useful for a bard to ignore, imo.

Dont forget that dumping Str while wearing plate gimpy your movement

[Ashrym]

Skills give versatility. Just because it's not magic doesn't make it not versatile. Thinking only magic gives versatility isn't true.

A bard who has lower physical attributes isn't any different from having a wizard with lower physical attributes. Physical attributes only apply to certain aspects of the game. Play the character like a wizard and don't try to use a spell when a skill will do and you will be fine. INT can be useful for ability checks in some cases so while it's not normally the high stat it does afford things like harvesting poison, avoiding magical traps, investigation and general knowledge. WIS is an important ability score for perception, insight, and survival. Looking at the group, I don't think those are necessarily bad choices because DEX and STR options are covered. They could work for you in the grand scheme of things from the skill aspect of the character.

It's very rare that someone would have been hit or missed a save in delaying the CHA bonus. A feat is typically much more useful and noticeably effective.

You might consider going human, dumping the DEX to 13, and taking medium armor. That will allow you to raise your DEX to 14 and have max AC for a medium armored character instead of worrying about DEX at all. That's how you would compensate for DEX on AC.

The problem with taking ritual caster anything feats is that they don't actually give you any rituals beyond the first in your ritual book. Relying on finding and paying to scribe spells can slow you down a lot. I don't own Princes of the Apocalypse to verify but don't recall there being much to add. I find it's easier to simply add ritual spells to the spells known of the bard because bards have the ritual caster trait and decent spells. The real question is what specific ritual spells are you actually looking to add to your tool box? I would be more inclined to add healer or inspiring leader feats, or possibly something to pick up a good ranged combat cantrip if you have concerns about your AC.

[Aaron Underhand]

My lore bard took inspiring leader @4th so that the party had a consistent HP buffer after every short rest. This plus the extra d6 when people are spending HD works for me. I use healing word as needed in combat and don't know cure wounds.

(It probably helped that I had rolled stats and so started mostly slightly better than you are.)

My low str (7) is manageable because we aren't using the optional encumbrance rules. Getting stuck in place by spider webs was a bit annoying however.

I wouldn't want to dump dex since dex weapons provide the primary means of ever dealing any damage. Vicious Mockery only goes so far.

At 5th level I may MC a level of wizard for more utility cantrips and being able to have all the level 1 rituals. (This lets me get most benefits of magic initiate (wizard) and ritual caster (wiz) for only a level 1 dip)

I did an MC wizard 1 with my Lore Bard - it is a very interesting trade. You get all the wizard level 1 rituals eventually, you get the cantrips (I took situational ones - Acid Spray (mini AoE), Chill Touch (stop enemy healing), and Shocking Grasp (melee against metal armoured foes).

The real beauty however is that you can have (in my case with INT 14) 3 1st level Wizards spells prepared - to use all your 1st level spell slots. This frees up the Bard known spell capacity for more of the really fun higher level spells. My Wizard can have Shield, Silent Image and Fog cloud loaded, but variously has used sleep or magic missile - no worries about saves or casting stats really. I keep the Bards 'Healing Word' known, but I have more bardic casting power because I can get more known spells. It's a great trade against Ritual caster and Mage Initiate.

Not forgetting that you have a familiar as well :-)


Oh and 1 level of wizard gives you one 1st level slot back on a short rest once/day, so a slot just like Mage initiate really.

[Sjappo]

Are you talking about magical secrets here? They count as bard spells and will therefore use your charisma not Int. Or have I misunderstood you?
I think you misunderstood. I'm thinking about multi classing into wizard. INT would drive those wizard spells and cantrips.

[Sjappo]

Regarding DEX, I disagree. DEX is the superstar but in this case I can live without I think. I plan to be out of the firing line as much as possible, some AC won't come up much (I hope). DEX save will take care of itself eventually. Taking the ini hit sucks though.

Resilient WIS is boring, I'm sorry, but it is. It gives a static bonus. Same problem I have with standard ASIs.

I don't get the medium armor bit. Do you propose I take variant human and use the feat for medium armored? Could be worthwhile. I'd loose some skills, stats and darkvision.

[Ashrym]

Regarding DEX, I disagree. DEX is the superstar but in this case I can live without I think. I plan to be out of the firing line as much as possible, some AC won't come up much (I hope). DEX save will take care of itself eventually. Taking the ini hit sucks though.

Resilient WIS is boring, I'm sorry, but it is. It gives a static bonus. Same problem I have with standard ASIs.

I don't get the medium armor bit. Do you propose I take variant human and use the feat for medium armored? Could be worthwhile. I'd loose some skills, stats and darkvision.

I would go with the variant human for the medium armor and shield, yes. It's a quick and easy boost to AC and also alleviates MAD strain with DEX. Losing some skills doesn't mean much because you have plenty already just as a lore bard and you would get half proficiency bonus in those other couple of skills anyway from jack-of-all-trades. Human gives a bonus of +1 to 2 ability scores still to go with that feat, and that feat give a bonus of +1 to either STR or DEX in addition to the medium armor and shield proficiency. Moderately armored is a good defensive investment that way, IMO, and I think you don't really lose out on ability scores in the long run.

Darkvision is nice to have but not really necessary.