Best Build to Maximize Passive Perception

[Naanomi]

Maximizing something is inherently fun (to me), and passive perception is a vital stat to begin with. I've been looking at ways to make the most use out of maximizing passive perception with an otherwise viable character.

Needed:
Attacking with Shillelagh/Magic Stone is an option if I am getting other benefits from physical combat; or a cleric/druid damage cantrip if not. I can get these from Cleric or Druid dips, Magical Initiate Feat, or Magical Secrets if I am a 6/10 Bard. Monk might also be a way to make the 20 Wisdom not feel wasted
A few spells offer options, but not continually... Enhance Ability is perhaps the easiest, or Foresight if I get that high of casting; perhaps easier would be getting a familiar (through wizard dip, Magic Initiate/Ritual caster, or Magical Secrets) who continually 'helps' my perception checks
Bard 3+ or Rogue 1+, there is no other option
Sooner rather than later... Variant Human is likely, though if another option offers clear advantage I can pick it up through ASI later
Did I miss anything?

So, how would one proceed?
~Pure Lore Bard with Magic Initiate, cherry pick spells to avoid both saves and attack rolls?
~Pure Rogue with Magic Initiate; use Magic Stone to Sneak Attack via wisdom?
~ Multiclass (Cleric or Druid) and (Rogue or Bard), options in a variety of ratios?
~Rogue/Monk?

[bid]

Passive perception in the 30s is a DM's bane. Either you automatically find everything, or nobody could ever find it. There were discussions on this point before.

It's still a fun thing to optimize, it's just that playing it is boring.

[RickAllison]

Druid X/Rogue 2. Take Expertise in Perception and Stealth. You can then either use an animal form with Keen Senses (Dire Wolf gives hearing and scent, eagle gives sight, etc.) or pop Enhance Ability (Wisdom). For damage, enjoy Call Lightning while bonus action Hiding, or just beat the crap out of people as a Moon Druid is wont to do.

Heck, go flying as a Giant Eagle. Enjoy sprinting speeds of 240' per round while even seeing anything invisible with a passive Perception of 32. For a sense of perspective, that means you are spotting invisible assassins 100% of the time. Meanwhile, you are rocking a Stealth of +15 so the odds of anyone spotting you on a cloudy day are very low...

[Naanomi]

Advantage through animal senses is a brilliant idea... Variant Human 8/16/14/10/16/8?

[JackPhoenix]

Druid X/Rogue 2. Take Expertise in Perception and Stealth. You can then either use an animal form with Keen Senses (Dire Wolf gives hearing and scent, eagle gives sight, etc.) or pop Enhance Ability (Wisdom). For damage, enjoy Call Lightning while bonus action Hiding, or just beat the crap out of people as a Moon Druid is wont to do.

Heck, go flying as a Giant Eagle. Enjoy sprinting speeds of 240' per round while even seeing anything invisible with a passive Perception of 32. For a sense of perspective, that means you are spotting invisible assassins 100% of the time. Meanwhile, you are rocking a Stealth of +15 so the odds of anyone spotting you on a cloudy day are very low...

Being invisible makes the assassin automatically unseen. No amount of Perception will help with that, so the eagle's Keen Senses wouldn't do anything, you'd need to rely on other senses (hearing or smell). At the same time, you can't use Stealth, because there's generally no source of cover or obscurement in the sky, making you autofail Stealth checks.

If the assassin is both invisible and in an area of silence, you're out of luck, you can't detect him with either visual or aural Perception.

[wunderkid]

Being invisible makes the assassin automatically unseen. No amount of Perception will help with that, so the eagle's Keen Senses wouldn't do anything, you'd need to rely on other senses (hearing or smell). At the same time, you can't use Stealth, because there's generally no source of cover or obscurement in the sky, making you autofail Stealth checks.

If the assassin is both invisible and in an area of silence, you're out of luck, you can't detect him with either visual or aural Perception.

Well clouds will provide obscurement but is quite reliant.

Also invisibility just allows you concealment for a stealth check. Perception can see 'see through' invisibility. Not in the can actually 'see' sense but it let's you "spot, hear or otherwise detect the presence of something" so a high passive perception means you know where the invisible person is standing even if they are also in a zone of silence... for some reason idk rules

[RickAllison]

Being invisible makes the assassin automatically unseen. No amount of Perception will help with that, so the eagle's Keen Senses wouldn't do anything, you'd need to rely on other senses (hearing or smell). At the same time, you can't use Stealth, because there's generally no source of cover or obscurement in the sky, making you autofail Stealth checks.

If the assassin is both invisible and in an area of silence, you're out of luck, you can't detect him with either visual or aural Perception.

Unseen, NOT undetectable. He can try to Hide and he would be inflicting disadvantage from invisibility, but the dust he kicks up, his footprints, the rustle of leaves as he moves gives away his position.

[JackPhoenix]

Well clouds will provide obscurement but is quite reliant.

Clouds dense enough to provide heavy obscurement (needed for Stealth) would block line of sight both ways, forcing you to rely on other senses. (being blinded makes you autofail Perception checks based on sight)


Also invisibility just allows you concealment for a stealth check. Perception can see 'see through' invisibility. Not in the can actually 'see' sense but it let's you "spot, hear or otherwise detect the presence of something" so a high passive perception means you know where the invisible person is standing even if they are also in a zone of silence... for some reason idk rules

Condition: Invisible: An invisible creature is impossible to see without the aid of magic or a special sense. For the purpose of hiding, the creature is heavily obscured. The creature’s location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves.

Hidden (as in "location isn't known") means being unseen and unheard. Being invisible makes you unsean, being silenced makes you unheard. Only options left are magic that allows you to see invisible creatures, negating the first part, tremorsense which allows you to detect creature on the same surface as you are, blindsight (though not one based on echolocation like bat's) or smell. First three options limits the form you can take. Smell is more tricky... it depends on GM decision, but I would rule that you can't smell a creature over any useful distance unless you have Keen Smell, especially not with enough precision to pinpoint it's precise location.


Unseen, NOT undetectable. He can try to Hide and he would be inflicting disadvantage from invisibility, but the dust he kicks up, his footprints, the rustle of leaves as he moves gives away his position.

Sure. You wouldn't get advantage from eagle's Keen Senses, though (so that's -5 to passive Perception). You wouldn't get a disadvantage either, you autofail on visual Perception, but being invisible doesn't do anything against other senses (notice how cloak and boots of elvenkind note they affect only visual or aural Perception, respectively)

[RickAllison]

Condition: Invisible: An invisible creature is impossible to see without the aid of magic or a special sense. For the purpose of hiding, the creature is heavily obscured. The creature’s location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves.

Hidden (as in "location isn't known") means being unseen and unheard. Being invisible makes you unsean, being silenced makes you unheard. Only options left are magic that allows you to see invisible creatures, negating the first part, tremorsense which allows you to detect creature on the same surface as you are, blindsight (though not one based on echolocation like bat's) or smell. First three options limits the form you can take. Smell is more tricky... it depends on GM decision, but I would rule that you can't smell a creature over any useful distance unless you have Keen Smell, especially not with enough precision to pinpoint it's precise location.[/spoiler]

Thank you for providing the text for my rebuttal! As you so helpfully pointed out, the eagle is still seeing him from the tracks he leaves (as I pointed out in a previous post), which is why I would say he gets disadvantage. Which is canceled out by Keen Senses. Leaving a wonderful 32 passive Perception which is 3 over what the Assassin's +9 can achieve.

[spoiler]Sure. You wouldn't get advantage from eagle's Keen Senses, though (so that's -5 to passive Perception). You wouldn't get a disadvantage either, you autofail on visual Perception, but being invisible doesn't do anything against other senses (notice how cloak and boots of elvenkind note they affect only visual or aural Perception, respectively)

See above. The assassin is still leaving tracks that can be seen.

[Naanomi]

Passive Perception if I have Advantage: 37
Passive Perception if I somehow lose Advantage: 32
Passive Perception if I somehow lose Advantage AND Gain Disadvantage: 27

Magic Items could pump the numbers a little higher...

The average assassin specced for Stealth will have 1d20+17 (though there are a number of ways to boost this higher); but without outside help I have a good chance of noticing them even with disadvantage

Luckily there is a variety of animal forms to find blindsight, tremorsense, Keen Scent

[JackPhoenix]

See above. The assassin is still leaving tracks that can be seen.

That's situation dependant. Snowy field? Sure. Well-traveled muddy road? Yes... but it's not like you can discern his track from anyone elses from a distance. Paved courtyard? Not really.

[JumboWheat01]

Being invisible makes the assassin automatically unseen. No amount of Perception will help with that, so the eagle's Keen Senses wouldn't do anything, you'd need to rely on other senses (hearing or smell). At the same time, you can't use Stealth, because there's generally no source of cover or obscurement in the sky, making you autofail Stealth checks.

If the assassin is both invisible and in an area of silence, you're out of luck, you can't detect him with either visual or aural Perception.

Then I use my Perception to SMELL the assassin! There are more than Sight and Hearing for senses.

[RickAllison]

Passive Perception if I have Advantage: 37
Passive Perception if I somehow lose Advantage: 32
Passive Perception if I somehow lose Advantage AND Gain Disadvantage: 27

Magic Items could pump the numbers a little higher...

The average assassin specced for Stealth will have 1d20+17 (though there are a number of ways to boost this higher); but without outside help I have a good chance of noticing them even with disadvantage

Luckily there is a variety of animal forms to find blindsight, tremorsense, Keen Scent

Giant Vulture. Trade 20 ft of fly speed and gain advantage on scent (as well as sight). Honestly, does Pass Without Trace even function against smell? It talks about obscuring sight through shadows and creating silence, but there isn't much from the spell's text to indicate that they should get anything to deal with scent.

[RickAllison]

That's situation dependant. Snowy field? Sure. Well-traveled muddy road? Yes... but it's not like you can discern his track from anyone elses from a distance. Paved courtyard? Not really.

How about dust, debris, pebbles. Real-life Eagles can see rabbits from two miles away (let's short-change and say 10000 feet). Rabbits can range from 8 to 20 inches, so I'll put the rabbit at 14". From 700 feet away from the assassin, the eagle is essentially discerning movement as small as an inch, and that's a regular eagle. That is enough to see grass moving, pebbles shifting across cobblestones, and anything crushed underfoot stands out as a beacon to the eagle.

I'm pretty sure the eagle wins this fight. Well, the proverbial one. The assassin could always shoot the bird down when he gets close enough. But the eagle would see the arrow coming!

[Slipperychicken]

Being invisible makes the assassin automatically unseen. No amount of Perception will help with that, so the eagle's Keen Senses wouldn't do anything, you'd need to rely on other senses (hearing or smell). At the same time, you can't use Stealth, because there's generally no source of cover or obscurement in the sky, making you autofail Stealth checks.

If the assassin is both invisible and in an area of silence, you're out of luck, you can't detect him with either visual or aural Perception.

Wisdom(perception) covers all senses and means of detection, as well as awareness of surroundings. PHB 178.


If someone's in silence, one might notice that there's no sound coming from things that should be heard (such as a tree in the wind not creaking at all, or dripping dew not making its usual sound). Or that an unseen footfall-like force is disturbing dust, leaves, and so on. Also many smells and tastes that normal people ignore (such as dust, sweat, perfume, soap, detergent, and so on. An improbably-alert person might even smell the poison on his blade) might be noticeable. It might be wicked hard, but it's the kind of thing I'd expect a DC 25 or 30 check to handle.