Sun Soul Monk/ Light Cleric

[StiXFletcher]

Hey all. Basically I really liked the idea of playing a combination of Light Cleric and Sun Soul Monk (currently Monk 4 / Cleric 1). I'm planning to go Monk next for the extra attack (tbh I realise now I should have waited until 6th level to multiclass but oh well). Basically, I was wondering if people could help me out by suggesting what way to go with the character now as in what levels I should be looking to reach in the two classes etc?

[Yorrin]

I've seen this question, or one very like it, pop up several times, and in the end it always boils down to how you want to play the character. If you see your character as a brawler that only occasionally casts a spell then one or two levels of Cleric will be sufficient. If you primarily want a Cleric with great martial arts training then five or six levels of Monk will be plenty. If you really want to hybrid the two in a nearly balanced way then Monk 11/Cleric 9 is a good split for Sun Soul.

[Easy_Lee]

Could always ask for a custom monk archetype using cleric spells. The shadow monk has some such spells and should offer basic guidelines.

[MrStabby]

I would be tempted to stick with only 2 levels of cleric.

This gets you channel divinity, which I think will really add to the flavour of your class and a few spell slots (a really nice bonus as it lets you use your concentration for something). The level 1 reaction ability is also quite nice as a bonus. After level 2, you find yourself with more of your power in spells, and hence your melee abilities become superfluous, and vice versa.

If your DM uses DMG magic items it should also get you the ability to use the cleric ones there - so thematically useful as well.

Some classic cleric spells (spiritual weapon) may be less useful as you have great bonus action anyway so you may want to focus on alternatives?

[BladeWing81]

As mentioned before you need to decide (in some cases not immediately) what type of character you want. If you want a heavy Monk with some light cleric spell you probably want to get Monk 18/ Cleric 2 to get empty body and your martial arts die up to 1d10 or a medium build could be Monk 14/Cleric 6 to get proficiency on all Saves and 1d8 on martial arts and from the cleric you'll get Channel divinity twice per long rest, improved flare and on spells you get Flaming sphere, scorching ray and fireball.
If your goal is to get a bit more powerful spells from your hybrid you can consider Monk 12/Light cleric 8 you still get 12 Ki points, the light fireball and 1d8 Martial arts die and on cleric you get everything I've Mentioned before plus Guardian of Faith Wall of Fire and your cleric cantrips now add your wisdom modifier to your damage.
IF you decide to go on M12/C8 I would also recommend changing your sub-classes to Open hand monk and war cleric to take advantge of the great open hand features and with war cleric to take advantage of divine favor (sweet extra damage dice), shield of faith, Magic weapon (not for unarmed strikes), spiritual weapon, crusader's mantle, spirit guardians, freedom of movement, stoneskin and the cleric features like guided strike and divine strike to add an extra 1d8 to one of your attacks.

[MrStabby]

IF you decide to go on M12/C8 I would also recommend changing your sub-classes to Open hand monk and war cleric to take advantge of the great open hand features and with war cleric to take advantage of divine favor (sweet extra damage dice), shield of faith, Magic weapon (not for unarmed strikes), spiritual weapon, crusader's mantle, spirit guardians, freedom of movement, stoneskin and the cleric features like guided strike and divine strike to add an extra 1d8 to one of your attacks.

Worth mentioning that divine favour isn't so great for unarmed strikes either.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

Worth mentioning that divine favour isn't so great for unarmed strikes either.

Yep. I think Trickery is the best cleric domain for monk/cleric multis. With that duplicate image next to you, you are getting advantage on all your attack rolls... Which is nice.

Also, if you get to level 7 cleric with your build, you get POLYMORPH which could be completely abusable with your monk, depending on your GM.

Here's a question I have for a monk/cleric multi: do you start level 1 with cleric so you get prof. in Wis saves, useful against a lot of spells, or do you start level 1 as monk so you get prof. in Dex saves for better evasion?
EDIT: it just occurred to me that at monk level 7, they can negate the effects of charm or frighten which are a lot of your wisdom saves, so to answer my question I would always start with monk at level 1 to get prof. in Dex saves to make evasion all the nicer. Of course, if your build gets to monk level 14 than it's all moot anyway but we were talking about M12/C8.

[Zalabim]

Worth mentioning that divine favour isn't so great for unarmed strikes either.

An unarmed strike can be used to make a melee weapon attack. They just aren't weapons. It works fine with Divine Favor.

[bid]

An unarmed strike can be used to make a melee weapon attack. They just aren't weapons. It works fine with Divine Favor.
Divine favor needs "weapon attack", a whole different beast.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

Divine favor needs "weapon attack", a whole different beast.

No, he's right, actually. The errata on unarmed strike is it's a "melee weapon attack" and this just says "weapon attack", i.e. either melee or ranged so it works. You only get in trouble when something is keyed off a "weapon" which unarmed strikes are not.

[bid]

No, he's right, actually. The errata on unarmed strike is it's a "melee weapon attack" and this just says "weapon attack", i.e. either melee or ranged so it works. You only get in trouble when something is keyed off a "weapon" which unarmed strikes are not.
So, you believe you can smite with bare hands.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

So, you believe you can smite with bare hands.

Yep.
https://merricb.com/2015/06/11/dd-players-handbook-errata-and-unarmed-strike/

Unfortunately Paladin/Monk is not a viable multiclass due to the ability score prerequisites.

[RickAllison]

So, you believe you can smite with bare hands.

Well, yes. That is allowed and awesome.

Contrast that to GFB/Booming Blade, which key off attacks with a weapon, and so can't be used with unarmed strikes.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

Well, yes. That is allowed and awesome.

Contrast that to GFB/Booming Blade, which key off attacks with a weapon, and so can't be used with unarmed strikes.

Also true. But I think a monk/bladesinger is doable, you just have to use a monk weapon like a shortsword or quarterstaff with the GFB/booming blade spell.

[bid]

Yep.
https://merricb.com/2015/06/11/dd-players-handbook-errata-and-unarmed-strike/

Unfortunately Paladin/Monk is not a viable multiclass due to the ability score prerequisites.
Ok, nice.:smallsmile:

[RickAllison]

Also true. But I think a monk/bladesinger is doable, you just have to use a monk weapon like a shortsword or quarterstaff with the GFB/booming blade spell.

Oh definitely, especially with Haste. With Haste, the Fistsinger can make the same number of attacks as a regular monk while using the scaling cantrip. With good rolls, he is rocking a potential 25 AC, 27 with Haste, 32 with Shield. Would be beautiful...

[Fflewddur Fflam]

Oh definitely, especially with Haste. With Haste, the Fistsinger can make the same number of attacks as a regular monk while using the scaling cantrip. With good rolls, he is rocking a potential 25 AC, 27 with Haste, 32 with Shield. Would be beautiful...

"The Fistsinger". Sounds like a porno.
"Scaling cantrip"? What are you referring to?

[djreynolds]

As mentioned before you need to decide (in some cases not immediately) what type of character you want. If you want a heavy Monk with some light cleric spell you probably want to get Monk 18/ Cleric 2 to get empty body and your martial arts die up to 1d10 or a medium build could be Monk 14/Cleric 6 to get proficiency on all Saves and 1d8 on martial arts and from the cleric you'll get Channel divinity twice per long rest, improved flare and on spells you get Flaming sphere, scorching ray and fireball.
If your goal is to get a bit more powerful spells from your hybrid you can consider Monk 12/Light cleric 8 you still get 12 Ki points, the light fireball and 1d8 Martial arts die and on cleric you get everything I've Mentioned before plus Guardian of Faith Wall of Fire and your cleric cantrips now add your wisdom modifier to your damage.
IF you decide to go on M12/C8 I would also recommend changing your sub-classes to Open hand monk and war cleric to take advantge of the great open hand features and with war cleric to take advantage of divine favor (sweet extra damage dice), shield of faith, Magic weapon (not for unarmed strikes), spiritual weapon, crusader's mantle, spirit guardians, freedom of movement, stoneskin and the cleric features like guided strike and divine strike to add an extra 1d8 to one of your attacks.

This is it. BladeWing has done all our homework. Excellent

But I think ASIs are really important, so its gonna need at least 4 to max our dex and wis and maybe one more assuming you have 16 in both wisdom and dex. Possibly a 14 in con.

Monk 14 seems a good point to look into multiclassing as you get diamond soul.

Cleric 5 gets you some nice concentration spells at 3rd spell slots like, spirit guardians which seems to work, but Sun shield is pretty sweet also.

But this is the kicker for me, by the time you get to use spirit guardians you will be 19th level if you took 14 in monk

So first, you are monk 4/cleric 1. Perfect. You have access to bless and shield of faith and healing word. This will carry you and you have sacred flame as a cantrip which works in melee because it forces a save, or at range and doesn't use a KI point

I would take this guy now to 6th and do not stop, you need magic fists ASAP. And now continue to 8th level, you need to max out dexterity. Unless you rolled stats, it will take 2 ASI to get a 20 in dex.

From here you may miss out on sun shield the more cleric you take and 1d10 fists at 17th level. 18th level is empty body.

I recommend 19 monk/1 cleric and hope that bless or shield of faith is worth it to you along with healing word.

[Arkhios]

Also worth noting that the Channel Divinity is usable per short rests; not per long rests.

[Herobizkit]

Also true. But I think a monk/bladesinger is doable, you just have to use a monk weapon like a shortsword or quarterstaff with the GFB/booming blade spell.I believe that, when using a cantrip, you are doing the Cast A Spell action, not an Attack action (not even if you get to roll an attack as part of the spell), so Flurry doesn't trigger off GFB/Booming Blade.

Still neat, though.

[RickAllison]

"The Fistsinger". Sounds like a porno.
"Scaling cantrip"? What are you referring to?


I believe that, when using a cantrip, you are doing the Cast A Spell action, not an Attack action (not even if you get to roll an attack as part of the spell), so Flurry doesn't trigger off GFB/Booming Blade.

Still neat, though.

Haste gives you another action that can be used for the Attack action. Thus, a Monk/Bladesinger can Haste, use the second action to attack and thus activate the monk's bonus action, and spend their main action with GFB/BB. Edit: Scaling cantrip is the GFB/BB that increases in power with level.

And now that I think of it, Fistsinger may not have been the best choice of words...

[Fflewddur Fflam]

Haste gives you another action that can be used for the Attack action. Thus, a Monk/Bladesinger can Haste, use the second action to attack and thus activate the monk's bonus action, and spend their main action with GFB/BB. Edit: Scaling cantrip is the GFB/BB that increases in power with level.

And now that I think of it, Fistsinger may not have been the best choice of words...

No, no, I like it. ;)
Thanks for the info.