MinMax NPC group with class levels for challenging encounter @CR~12-13

[Puke]

Hello.
I'm preparing an encounter for my players. They are three level 10, two level 11, and one level 12.
The level 12 is a sorcerer, with dragon feats, full optimized.

They are looking for three bad guys :


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/ea/82/81/ea828199c13f557f09ed8f448909fed2.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/fb/66/5b/fb665bccebee1c42879e799769bfae19.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/6e/4a/d2/6e4ad21a3e52ada9a7cab725606582d9.jpg

They know the bad guys are well trained and have very good equipment. But I'm really bad when it comes to NPC sheets. I don't know the rules enough to make well optimized NPCs and I never make the sheets myself.
But this time, I want to make things different. I want 3 custom NPCs, each one really good at his job.

1) One ranger, orc and half-orc killer (maybe multiclassed assassin or rogue ?)
2) Two Melee (maybe one fighter and a priest... I don't know).

I want them to match the pics, of course, but the most important is that they can challenge the players in a good way.

Here is more infos about them :

1) They are Evil.
2) They are specialized in orc and half orc slaying.
3) They are sadistic.
4) They have brains, they are no fools and cannot be manipulated or deceived easily.
5) They have money so they have the best equipment they can afford for their level.

but... I don't know what level they must be to face the players. I've never done that before... making NPCs with class levels for such a large players group.
I can't register to minmaxboards to get help with optimisation (I do not receive the activation e-mail...) so I come here asking fori help.
Plus, since I've never played any melee character past level 6, I don't know the fighter feats.

TL:DR : I want to know how to prep a challenging encounter with 3 NPCs with class levels. They must be optimized, but I don't know how many class level they may have to face the players.

Thank you for your interest.

[DarkSoul]

What are the class breakdowns for the players? If you want to tailor your bad guys to your players, then we need to know what the players are.

Just as a baseline, the bad guys are outnumbered two-to-one. What's going to make or break the encounter is whether the bad guys can compensate for the fact that they'll be taking half as many actions a round as their opponents will. The actions they do take will have to count. You're also going to have to compensate for the magical firepower your group can bring. Just looking at the three pictures I feel like a cleric of Asmodeus, some flavor of charger build, and maybe a ranger or assassin, respectively.

What rules system are you using?

[Puke]

I'm using 3.5 SRD and most of 3.5 official rulebooks. Almost everything except homebrew or dragon magazines.

The players are :

1) Sorcerer (she is a killing and roasting machine) - Fire and elemental burst
2) Human paladin - Hack and slash machine
3) Dwarf paladin - Tank
4) Halfling rogue - Sneaky little... you know what. Not really strong in combat, but very smart.
5) Half orc barbarian (he is a killing machine) - BAM BOOM BAM SLASH PAM.
6) Moon Elf Ranger - He is new to the group so I don't know how he will do.

I do not exclude to add summoned beasts or weak followers to the bad guys group if it can make the players loose actions but I prefer not to because the 3 NPC may feel really strong and confident about their ability to defeat the players.

A cleric of Azmodeus is a good idea, I was thinking about either a cleric of azmodeus, an anti-paladin, a dark knight or a knight from hell.

[Gildedragon]

The first pic shouts cleric but let me suggest something else
Karsite Warlock or Binder (or Urpriest if you allow Karsites to use the stolen power, or artificer) LA already bought off, is pretty magic resistant. Uses Malphas to scout ahead, is the party face

Second: looks pleasant and fuzzy... Is a human or dwarf warblade, and the party strategist

Third: druid or ranger... Specializing in poison usage and trap laying. Is the party's scout and senses. Probably undead.

To even the playing field the villains need to rely on stealth, traps, poison, and illusions

[Puke]

In the setting we are playing, there is no chance any heir of Karsus's blood would be alive.
So I kinda like the Idea, but I need to justify the racial bonuses by another way.

Here is a link to the setting : http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?490625-The-Endless-Adventure-Unique-thread

Basically, the world exists since 150 years and Karsus who came from another universe into the player's world, has been really busy.

But the bad guy may be the result of an experiment.

[Gildedragon]

In the setting we are playing, there is no chance any heir of Karsus's blood would be alive.
So I kinda like the Idea, but I need to justify the racial bonuses by another way.

Here is a link to the setting : http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?490625-The-Endless-Adventure-Unique-thread

Basically, the world exists since 150 years and Karsus who came from another universe into the player's world, has been really busy.

But the bad guy may be the result of an experiment.
Fluff is mutable; magical experiment gone wrong, touch from karsus-beyond-the-void, the world isn't as fresh as everyone thinks it is (are there ruins? Dungeons? If so maybe the world was created old... Maybe a bit of karsus's mishap survived the reboot), maybe this is a reincarnated soul of a Karsite, taint of his ancestor still there (if binder then maybe hears about the remaking of the world from the spirits he binds... Would the unmade gods be vestiges?)
After all, Ao has a big Boss: the DM

[ExLibrisMortis]

The problem with matching the ranger picture, which I'm guessing is the one with the crossbows, is that dual-wielding crossbows isn't the best thing ever, and it looks like an elf, to boot (elves being the race that gets automatic bow proficiency). However, if you can refluff a bit, the following will work...

Wood elf scout 4/druid 2/barbarian 2/prestige ranger 6 with Swift Hunter. This is ECL 14, but your party is six people, and your NPCs only three, so that's fair. Note that this assumes you can treat prestige ranger as ranger levels, for Swift Hunter and ACFs and so on. You can substitute regular ranger levels no problem, but your spellcasting suffers (not that it was super to begin with, but it's still 1st-level ranger & druid spells versus 3rd-level druid spells). Mystic Ranger is better, but that's Dragon Magazine (I'd also like the City Brawler barbarian ACF, but again, Dragon).

Favoured Enemy (humanoid (orc)) is a given. You want the elf substitution level (which doesn't play nice with Prestige Ranger, but since you're the DM...) Elf Favoured Enemy, which gets you +3 versus orcs, instead of the normal +2 (and that keeps increasing, so you'd get +9 from the ranger levels, and +4 from the druid/barbarian, or even +6 if you rule it to stack backwards).
There is a crafty hunter ACF for barbarians in Unearthed Arcana - you lose rage, but you get Favoured Enemy and Combat Style (rapid shot) instead, to qualify for prestige ranger.
There is also a swift hunter ACF that gives the druid Fast Movement (as monk), Favoured Enemy, the Track feat (prestige ranger prereq) and AC bonus/wisdom to AC (as monk).
There's the druidic avenger ACF that adds rage back (to the druid level, not the barbarian) and adds Fast Movement (as barbarian), but costs you your animal companion. You switch out the usual rage for Whirling Frenzy.
And finally there's the ranger Distracting Attack ACF that allows you to flank with ranged attacks, which is great news for your two melee companions. Essentially, you send a single skirmish-enhanced attack at each target, and your friends can attack each of them as if flanking.

Pick up Extra Rage, Swift Hunter (scout bonus feat), Improved Skirmish, and Travel Devotion (x2). I think it would be fun to make this a strength-based throwing build with gloves of endless javelins (7000 gp, free action create a +1 javelin of pure force) and Brutal Throw, which works nicer with the strength boost from rage (and Combat Style allows you to ignore the dex prereq on Rapid Shot/Manyshot). Add it together and you have 5x favoured enemy (Druid 1, Barbarian 1, Ranger 1, 5, 10 (6 base levels + 4 scout levels from Swift Hunter)), plus nice skirmish damage (5d6 with Improved Skirmish), a 50' movement speed, and a full attack of +7/+7/+7/+2/-3, also known as terrible, but that's before adding bonuses (oh, and those extra attacks stack with haste, so you could get +8/+8/+8/+8/+3/-2 and 80' speed). You need some nice buffs to boost your to-hit, and it's all good.

The refluffing I mentioned earlier is in the gloves: pretend they're actually +1 force hand crossbows, and the strength modifier to damage is because they're so efficient at utilizing great strength, or whatever. You don't get TWF, but between Rapid Shot and Whirling Frenzy, you do get two extra attacks.

[J-H]

CR is not ECL. You can take advantage of non-associated class levels to raise ECL without raising CR. For example, a cleric 17 and a cleric 12/swordsage 5 are the same ECL, but the Cleric 17 is higher CR because he has access to 8th & 9th level spells.

Use this to advantage to stack extra class levels for better HP & saves (the PCs will be forcing more saves than the NPCs will), and to help with the action economy. The Cleric should take the Time domain for access to Haste, and I think you should seriously consider putting a few levels of martial initiator on one or two of the NPCs. Even if they don't use many of the strikes, there are still counters and boosts that let them make use of their immediate action (aside from Quickened X). 5 levels in a martial class gets you things like:
Defensive Rebuke (force focus fire or get AOO'd)
Revitalizing Strike (hit enemy, heal ally)
Mind over Body (Conc to Fort save)
White Raven Tactics (change ally's initiative, let him act again)
Cloak of Deception (invisibility, 1 rd)
Wall of Blades (replace AC with attack roll once)
Fire Riposte (counter attack with a 4d6 fire touch)
Sudden Leap (jump to change positions as a swift action)
Flame's Blessing (gain fire resist/immunity based on tumble ranks, stance)

Mid-level maneuvers get you things like flight while charging, rerolling missed attacks, grabbing and throwing enemies for damage, using a counter to follow an enemy the entire distance of their move as an immediate action without preventing AOOs, 50' teleport through shadow as a move action, bonus attacks, etc.

[Puke]

The problem with matching the ranger picture, which I'm guessing is the one with the crossbows, is that dual-wielding crossbows isn't the best thing ever, and it looks like an elf, to boot (elves being the race that gets automatic bow proficiency). However, if you can refluff a bit, the following will work...

Wood elf scout 4/druid 2/barbarian 2/prestige ranger 6 with Swift Hunter. This is ECL 14, but your party is six people, and your NPCs only three, so that's fair. Note that this assumes you can treat prestige ranger as ranger levels, for Swift Hunter and ACFs and so on. You can substitute regular ranger levels no problem, but your spellcasting suffers (not that it was super to begin with, but it's still 1st-level ranger & druid spells versus 3rd-level druid spells). Mystic Ranger is better, but that's Dragon Magazine (I'd also like the City Brawler barbarian ACF, but again, Dragon).

Favoured Enemy (humanoid (orc)) is a given. You want the elf substitution level (which doesn't play nice with Prestige Ranger, but since you're the DM...) Elf Favoured Enemy, which gets you +3 versus orcs, instead of the normal +2 (and that keeps increasing, so you'd get +9 from the ranger levels, and +4 from the druid/barbarian, or even +6 if you rule it to stack backwards).
There is a crafty hunter ACF for barbarians in Unearthed Arcana - you lose rage, but you get Favoured Enemy and Combat Style (rapid shot) instead, to qualify for prestige ranger.
There is also a swift hunter ACF that gives the druid Fast Movement (as monk), Favoured Enemy, the Track feat (prestige ranger prereq) and AC bonus/wisdom to AC (as monk).
There's the druidic avenger ACF that adds rage back (to the druid level, not the barbarian) and adds Fast Movement (as barbarian), but costs you your animal companion. You switch out the usual rage for Whirling Frenzy.
And finally there's the ranger Distracting Attack ACF that allows you to flank with ranged attacks, which is great news for your two melee companions. Essentially, you send a single skirmish-enhanced attack at each target, and your friends can attack each of them as if flanking.

Pick up Extra Rage, Swift Hunter (scout bonus feat), Improved Skirmish, and Travel Devotion (x2). I think it would be fun to make this a strength-based throwing build with gloves of endless javelins (7000 gp, free action create a +1 javelin of pure force) and Brutal Throw, which works nicer with the strength boost from rage (and Combat Style allows you to ignore the dex prereq on Rapid Shot/Manyshot). Add it together and you have 5x favoured enemy (Druid 1, Barbarian 1, Ranger 1, 5, 10 (6 base levels + 4 scout levels from Swift Hunter)), plus nice skirmish damage (5d6 with Improved Skirmish), a 50' movement speed, and a full attack of +7/+7/+7/+2/-3, also known as terrible, but that's before adding bonuses (oh, and those extra attacks stack with haste, so you could get +8/+8/+8/+8/+3/-2 and 80' speed). You need some nice buffs to boost your to-hit, and it's all good.

The refluffing I mentioned earlier is in the gloves: pretend they're actually +1 force hand crossbows, and the strength modifier to damage is because they're so efficient at utilizing great strength, or whatever. You don't get TWF, but between Rapid Shot and Whirling Frenzy, you do get two extra attacks.

I still can change the image. The players haven't see em anyway, they just know what they have been told "It's ... an elf... I believe... but I'm not quite sure. It looks like an elf at least, but his smell is different. It could be something else."
as for the crossbow, they know he is using at least ONE crossbow because the party barbarian dodged a bolt.
So if you think there is a better way with only one crossbow and a half elf or something with pointy ears that looks like an elf from far away... feel free to speak ! :)

Thank you already for ideas and the details !


Fluff is mutable; magical experiment gone wrong, touch from karsus-beyond-the-void, the world isn't as fresh as everyone thinks it is (are there ruins? Dungeons? If so maybe the world was created old... Maybe a bit of karsus's mishap survived the reboot), maybe this is a reincarnated soul of a Karsite, taint of his ancestor still there (if binder then maybe hears about the remaking of the world from the spirits he binds... Would the unmade gods be vestiges?)
After all, Ao has a big Boss: the DM

One of the most important NPCs is called "Zengdar, the butcher of Darkhold" and is well known for his experiments on any living creature. He created numerous chimeras. I could have made the karsites.

Thanks, I did not know this race at all and it is amazing.



CR is not ECL. You can take advantage of non-associated class levels to raise ECL without raising CR. For example, a cleric 17 and a cleric 12/swordsage 5 are the same ECL, but the Cleric 17 is higher CR because he has access to 8th & 9th level spells.

Use this to advantage to stack extra class levels for better HP & saves (the PCs will be forcing more saves than the NPCs will), and to help with the action economy. The Cleric should take the Time domain for access to Haste, and I think you should seriously consider putting a few levels of martial initiator on one or two of the NPCs. Even if they don't use many of the strikes, there are still counters and boosts that let them make use of their immediate action (aside from Quickened X). 5 levels in a martial class gets you things like:
Defensive Rebuke (force focus fire or get AOO'd)
Revitalizing Strike (hit enemy, heal ally)
Mind over Body (Conc to Fort save)
White Raven Tactics (change ally's initiative, let him act again)
Cloak of Deception (invisibility, 1 rd)
Wall of Blades (replace AC with attack roll once)
Fire Riposte (counter attack with a 4d6 fire touch)
Sudden Leap (jump to change positions as a swift action)
Flame's Blessing (gain fire resist/immunity based on tumble ranks, stance)

Mid-level maneuvers get you things like flight while charging, rerolling missed attacks, grabbing and throwing enemies for damage, using a counter to follow an enemy the entire distance of their move as an immediate action without preventing AOOs, 50' teleport through shadow as a move action, bonus attacks, etc.


I might be a good way to build a nice harasser.
Thanks !

[Immabozo]

I am AFB (away from books) at the moment, but I suggest re-fluffing other mechanics to suit your appearance, as as been said. Personally, I would suggest a warhulk/nature's warrior for the fighter. Since you are the DM, you can hand waive the level 1 Warhulk (dis)ability. Nature's warrior for the "looks like has normal reach for a member of their race... until they use their enhanced reach", and you can decide that the enhanced reach is good enough to enter warhulk, and you can build the character to be a barbarian and then bear warrior for nature's warrior prereques.

Then make in an AoO build, taking advantage of the reach, and then you can make in a PA, knockback build, also, which would take advantage of the characters STR bonuses.

I can build it for you, if I need to, but it will all be from memory, as I no longer have convenient access to my books

[Puke]

Is it : http://alcyius.com/dndtools/classes/war-hulk/index.html what you have in mind ?
http://alcyius.com/dndtools/classes/natures-warrior/index.html

Hum... then the armor would not make any sense to something like that.

But... this may be the fourth hidden character of the party. It may be the "ranger's familiar". Isn't it ?

[Immabozo]

Is it : http://alcyius.com/dndtools/classes/war-hulk/index.html what you have in mind ?
http://alcyius.com/dndtools/classes/natures-warrior/index.html

Hum... then the armor would not make any sense to something like that.

But... this may be the fourth hidden character of the party. It may be the "ranger's familiar". Isn't it ?

That's the Warhulk, but I got the Nature's warrior wrong. A quick google revealed the correct PrC, Warshaper. You can make the armor magically expand with his body, such a character would have wildshaping armor. But the "ranger's familiar" could be this character. It could be a misinformation tactic!

EDIT: If you are going for the misinformation tactic, I would like to suggest that the "ranger" is a psion with a psicrystal that had the metamorphosis, or whatever, power manifested on it and changed into a crossbow. Maybe it has two (if that's possible), to fit the picture. Perhaps the "crossbows" fire a trap, maybe a quictenssence trap, or something.

EDIT 2: The "animal companion" should be a Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian (pounce!) 6/Fist of the Forest 3/War Hulk 4/Bear Warrior 1, with huge bonuses to str and con, getting con to AC, with reach and some crazy melee based battlefield control abilities. As the DM, you can hand waive a few mechanical details, like the war hulk hitting 3 squares with UA strikes. But the character is more flavorful than a filet mignon.

And the "ranger" psion should probably be focused on enhancing him with the expansion power and then whatever else

[smasher0404]

May I suggest something like:
Human Paladin of Slaughter 2/Crusader 4 (Tome of Battle)) /Warrior Skald 1 (Races of Faerun)/War Chanter 4(Complete Warrior)/Ronin 2

For the first image? The first image just oozes charisma to me. The War Chanter's Inspire Recklessness combined with say Shocktrooper (or grabbing two levels of Ronin(Complete Warrior) somehow for Banzai Charge) makes for a combatant who would reasonably invest in heavy armor, and eschewing defense for brutal, accurate attacks seems perfectly in-character for someone who is sadistic.

[Puke]

That's the Warhulk, but I got the Nature's warrior wrong. A quick google revealed the correct PrC, Warshaper. You can make the armor magically expand with his body, such a character would have wildshaping armor. But the "ranger's familiar" could be this character. It could be a misinformation tactic!

EDIT: If you are going for the misinformation tactic, I would like to suggest that the "ranger" is a psion with a psicrystal that had the metamorphosis, or whatever, power manifested on it and changed into a crossbow. Maybe it has two (if that's possible), to fit the picture. Perhaps the "crossbows" fire a trap, maybe a quictenssence trap, or something.

EDIT 2: The "animal companion" should be a Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian (pounce!) 6/Fist of the Forest 3/War Hulk 4/Bear Warrior 1, with huge bonuses to str and con, getting con to AC, with reach and some crazy melee based battlefield control abilities. As the DM, you can hand waive a few mechanical details, like the war hulk hitting 3 squares with UA strikes. But the character is more flavorful than a filet mignon.

And the "ranger" psion should probably be focused on enhancing him with the expansion power and then whatever else

We did not use psion rules yet so I don't know how it works. But I can give it a try.


May I suggest something like:
Human Paladin of Slaughter 2/Crusader 4 (Tome of Battle)) /Warrior Skald 1 (Races of Faerun)/War Chanter 4(Complete Warrior)/Ronin 2

For the first image? The first image just oozes charisma to me. The War Chanter's Inspire Recklessness combined with say Shocktrooper (or grabbing two levels of Ronin(Complete Warrior) somehow for Banzai Charge) makes for a combatant who would reasonably invest in heavy armor, and eschewing defense for brutal, accurate attacks seems perfectly in-character for someone who is sadistic.

Why not, but every action has to count since they are 3 NPCs vs 6 players.

[Puke]

The first pic shouts cleric but let me suggest something else
Karsite Warlock or Binder (or Urpriest if you allow Karsites to use the stolen power, or artificer) LA already bought off, is pretty magic resistant. Uses Malphas to scout ahead, is the party face

Second: looks pleasant and fuzzy... Is a human or dwarf warblade, and the party strategist

Third: druid or ranger... Specializing in poison usage and trap laying. Is the party's scout and senses. Probably undead.

To even the playing field the villains need to rely on stealth, traps, poison, and illusions

Here is a first draw :

Basic dices results :
17
16
14
13
13
8

Str : 13
Dex : 14
Cons : 16 + 2 = 18
Int : 13
Char : 17 + 2 = 19
Wis : 8

Here is a build : http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Glaive_of_the_Hellfire_Warlock_(3.5e_Optimized_Cha racter_Build)

Is it good according to you ? Never made a warlock, so I don't know the subclasses.

I'm only specialized in Wizards and bards since its the two classes i've ever played past lvl 10 !

(I'm still running an epic greater god wizard/archiwizard/spellfire wielder on the god's table of this campaign. He is KA.)

[Gildedragon]

Here is a first draw :

Basic dices results :
17
16
14
13
13
8

Str : 13
Dex : 14
Cons : 16 + 2 = 18
Int : 13
Char : 17 + 2 = 19
Wis : 8

Here is a build : http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Glaive_of_the_Hellfire_Warlock_(3.5e_Optimized_Cha racter_Build)

Is it good according to you ? Never made a warlock, so I don't know the subclasses.

The overall idea, a hellfire glaivelock, is good.
But iirc the soulmeld doesn't work. Instead you gotta bind Naberius... So a 1 dip in binder is in order.
Chamaleon isn't that good for a Karsite binder because spells: Karsite can only do SLAs

Also I am not sold on the use of bloodlines to boost hellfire blast, but if you are...

Evils Blessing might be good for you to shore up the saves.
The magic blooded template might interest you

[Immabozo]

We did not use psion rules yet so I don't know how it works. But I can give it a try.

Psionics are relatively easy, especially from a DM's perspective when you dont need to keep close track and manage power points.

Psionics work much like spells, but they dont automatically scale with manifestor level, like spells do, with caster level. Lets take fireball, for example. A level 9 wizard would get 9D6 in damage, but (assuming it was a psioniic power, just for the sake of argument) a level 9 psion would cast it at the basic level, I think that is 6D6 damage? and would have an option to scale it up to the 9D6 damage, at greater expense of resources.

The Wizard's fireball will take up 1 of a small number of level 3 spells per day. The psion might expend 5 power points, of 120 (random number) for the day, to manifest the power. Now to make it more powerful, he might invest another 3 PP to bring it up to that 9D6 damage level. The options for augmenting the power are all listed in the psionic power's listing in the book.

[mabriss lethe]

For the elf in #3, Why not a changeling? Everyone thinks he's an elf, buuut that's not quite right. For extra fun, he's a changeling ranger(ranged combat)/warshaper. (exact levels TBD) Rangers get access to Lion's Charge and a changeling warshaper is capable of generating an ungodly number of natural attacks. For extra EXTRA fun: He's not the only changeling. There are multiple changelings working with this group and they share the "old elfy guy" shape to sow confusion in their enemies, and to appear to be in multiple places at once.

[Immabozo]

For the elf in #3, Why not a changeling? Everyone thinks he's an elf, buuut that's not quite right. For extra fun, he's a changeling ranger(ranged combat)/warshaper. (exact levels TBD) Rangers get access to Lion's Charge and a changeling warshaper is capable of generating an ungodly number of natural attacks. For extra EXTRA fun: He's not the only changeling. There are multiple changelings working with this group and they share the "old elfy guy" shape to sow confusion in their enemies, and to appear to be in multiple places at once.

I was hoping that was leading into a "multiple small changelings come together to form a full sized super changeling" a la power rangers, or "5 mini lion bots come together to form one SUPER lion bot" -Deadpool, style

[Puke]

For the elf in #3, Why not a changeling? Everyone thinks he's an elf, buuut that's not quite right. For extra fun, he's a changeling ranger(ranged combat)/warshaper. (exact levels TBD) Rangers get access to Lion's Charge and a changeling warshaper is capable of generating an ungodly number of natural attacks. For extra EXTRA fun: He's not the only changeling. There are multiple changelings working with this group and they share the "old elfy guy" shape to sow confusion in their enemies, and to appear to be in multiple places at once.

That made me laugh.

But if we tailor the old elf to kick asses, the changelings following him must be weaker. Or I'll just crush the players.

[mabriss lethe]

That made me laugh.

But if we tailor the old elf to kick asses, the changelings following him must be weaker. Or I'll just crush the players.

It would work best for a multi-encounter recurring villain. Every time they face him, he has radically different abilities. (because he is a completely different character) One time is the melee monster from the first post. Next time he's a sorcerer, etc. It *could* work in a single combat scenario, but in that case, the "old elf" squad is constantly using "stick and move" tactics. One of them shows up, does his thing and then hides, only to seemingly reappear as a second changeling pops up and does a totally different thing, rinse/repeat.

[Coventry]

Since your NPCs are supposed to be a successful team that hunts Orcs, they should have contingencies for dealing with situations where they end up too deep in combat. Mobility is the key to surviving overwhelming odds.

Each of the three NPCs carries a Bracelet of Friends (19,000 gp), with the charms keyed to the other two. If they get overwhelmed and have to flee, the one that gets farthest away then uses the bracelet to summon the other two. First, one guy vanishes, then the second, then the third.

The Cleric's Word of Recall spell is good for getting very far away, although the Warlock's "Flee the Scene" ability can serve in a pinch. Give all three of them Capes of the Mountebank (1/day dimension door, up to 760' away, 10,080 gp) can give even a basic fighter the "long range" capability. Spot checks have a -1 penalty per 10' of distance, so a -76 modifier to the spot check means the PCs are very unlikely to see where the guy disappeared to.

The tactic only works when they use it early enough. Waiting until the three NPCs are within one round of dying is too late. The first guy vanishes, then the other two switch to full defense and hold action. The next round, the first guy uses the bracelet to summon one friend. That friend, upon arriving, then summons the second friend, completely clearing the battlefield in one round.

[Puke]

Bracelet of friends it is.
They cannot have equipped anything worth more than 35 000 GC. (Because the world is too recent and artisans simply doesn't know how to craft very good gear).

[Puke]

So ! Here is a first draw !

I would likely have :

Pic 1 :

Option 1 : Karsite Crusader : Party tank with heavy sustainability against spells.
Option 2 : A glaive warlock or hellfire warlock ? I found these builds : Glaive of the Hellfire... (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Glaive_of_the_Hellfire_Warlock_(3.5e_Optimized_Cha racter_Build)) but I don't really understand how this is optimized or how it bursts so much damages (I don't know the build and I cannot make research about every single one) so if anybody can tell me how it works, thank you. I mean... can you use several blasts a round ? Like eldricht and hellfire blast in a row ? With quickened spell like ability maybe...???... meh... not clear to me.
A Glaive master (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Eldritch_Glaive_Master_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_B uild)). Right. I don't see where he takes his multiples attacks a round once again, but it seems a great compromise between dmgs, sustain, and bfc.

Pic 2 :

Option 1 : The party tank. A crusader of some sort. There is a lot of good crusaders build and J-H gave me the best stances. So It would be easy to build one.
Option 2 : The Barbarian Warhulk freaking berzerker of the death. Upon entering combat, his eyes glows red, he enlarges (his armor adjusts mecanically to his new size as it has been made on the purpose) and he swings a great weapon. He does most of the battlefield control by itself. If he can learn stances from one source or another, taking level in one other class, that's even better.


Pic 3 :

Option 1 : Exlibrismortis build. I like It. With good buffs, it may work well to hit ppl in the back.
Option 2 : The changeling trick, with at least 2 changelings.


ANOTHER OPTION :

There is a fourth member... a warlock using entropic warding so he cannot be detected, and uses passive invisibility most of the time.

Feel free to propose links or more detailed builds. I mostly focus on story telling when I DM so I really lack of rules knowledge and sometimes... I feel a little lost with all of these things. I do realize I ask you to do my job... but again... too many sources !

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Other thoughts :

My NPCs must work as a good trained team. So the melee characters must be really the ones you wanna target while the ranger tries to attack in the back.
If my ranger is not spotted, can he gain any bonus on his attack roll or damage roll ?

I really need to kick at least one of the players out of the fight early on. Any suggestion ? I'd like to put one of them out of combat at the very first round.

[Gildedragon]

The hellfire warlock is a sort of standard build, though it involves bloodlines which are weird and not really needed.
The trick lies in progressing hellfire warlock beyond its 3 levels and thus getting more hellfire damage. But the vest soulmeld doesn't work as per the faq; binder (naberius) is perfect for avoiding the con damage of each blast.

[Puke]

And how do I deal my damages ? Only one blast per round ?

I checked the binder and this particular bond you mentioned, so I understood this quite good. I checked the vest and I understand why it is not allowed.

[Gildedragon]

And how do I deal my damages ? Only one blast per round ?

I checked the binder and this particular bond you mentioned, so I understood this quite good. I checked the vest and I understand why it is not allowed.

When using eldritch glaive, as a full-round-action, you make a melee touch attack (as if with a reach weapon), if your BAB let's you have more attacks you get to take them.
I'd recommend reading the full rules in Dragon Magic pg 82

[Puke]

When using eldritch glaive, as a full-round-action, you make a melee touch attack (as if with a reach weapon), if your BAB let's you have more attacks you get to take them.
I'd recommend reading the full rules in Dragon Magic pg 82


So with the glaive master, i can't chose a karsite because they cannot cast spells.
Anyway, this build, assuming i'm lvl 16, allows my character to have a
BAB : 10/6 right ? It's a bit low IMO.

Meh too many choicesssss !!!

The glaive master would suit very well with the second pictures tho. Because it can enlarge and I want him to be enlargeable... I'll look if I can build him to have some levels of war hulk too.


I created a game on Roll20 so we can edit the character sheets : https://app.roll20.net/join/1464067/wGRDRA

Feel free to comment the builds of the renamed sheets or to edit the sheets yourself.

[Gildedragon]

A) warlocks don't cast spells. They have SLAs
Warlocks are A-OK for Karsites
B)the BAB is a bit low, but it is a touch attack: ie you ignore armor. And if you say... Go invisible, you can flatfoot them too. Flatfooted touch AC is often 10

[Puke]

I'm aware warlocks uses SLA but in this specific build, the spell http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/righteousMight.htm is... a spell. It is needed to make the character really powerful. So if I cannot cast it... I loose a part of my power.

[Gildedragon]

I'm aware warlocks uses SLA but in this specific build, the spell http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/righteousMight.htm is... a spell. It is needed to make the character really powerful. So if I cannot cast it... I loose a part of my power.
Options:
Party members: lower your SR for them to cast it on you
Find a way to cast it as an SLA
Ditch it; you are generally capable of hiding.
(Give him a collar of umbral metamorphosis and the Child of Shadow stance via some gloves)

[Immabozo]

BAB : 10/6 right ? It's a bit low IMO.

....

I'll look if I can build him to have some levels of war hulk too.

Although these two partial sentences were in different paragraphs, I think the answer is the same.

The skilled weapon enchantment cost, I think, a +1 or a +2, you are treated as proficient with the weapon (hello exotic weapons!) AND you are treated as having a 3/4 BAB, so at level 16, that BAB is now 12. Not huge, but it's something. And those no BAB progression War Hulk levels are now 3/4 BAB!

[Puke]

Thanks to ALL the advices provided here, I made 4 character sheets (yes I used the changeling thing) that succeeded in making the PC pee in their pants. They already fled one encounter, and don't know if they are really prepared to face them again.

They are going to become a recurring encounter.

[ExLibrisMortis]

That's great! In a few weeks, the Playground can help your players plot the ultimate demise of this group :smallwink:.

[Puke]

I hope they will survive till then ! ahah !

I already gave them tips regarding their characters development with the things I've learned here.

I decided to let them some games to decide what to do (I like when they can develop their chars and explore the world). But they don't do much... so I'll put a little pressure on them.


The Quest for Spellfire

- One of the PC is wielder of spellfire. He does not master it yet, and causes some issues to the group, but he tries as hard as he can to improve his mastery (i'm talking about the sorcerer).
- He knows that when he practices, he uses the magic so intensely that what he does may be spotted by powerful wizards.
- Heck ! That's what happened ! He does not know yet, but a powerful wizard spotted him and wants to capture him to steal his power !

I may use the mercenaries we built together to chase them. For now, they think they are chasing the orc in their group. They don't know if it is because he is an orc, or if it's because they chase any orc. But it might be something else.

[Kelvarius]

I'm interested in seeing the final builds you went with.

[Puke]

You can find most of the builds on the previous page.

I kept :

- THE PARTY TANK BUT NOT ONLY A TANK : (1st pic) Lvl 11

I took the stats of a lvl 11 paladin NPC from pathfinder RPG, but it's a crusader. A dark crusader, but still. He is a karsite and wears very heavy armor.
He is considered as a full martial adept allowed to use all the stances unlocked at his level.

- THE PARTY TANK : (2nd pic) Lvl 14

barbarian 2/crusader 4/War Hulk 2/uncanny trickster 3/crusader 3 (Human of big size, like the mountain in GOT)
He uses a very big weapon, so he can hit multiple tiles from a distance and control the battlefield, as well as force focus with stances like thicket of blades and defensive rebuke.

- THE GLAIVELOCK : Lvl 16

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Glaive_of_the_Hellfire_Warlock_(3.5e_Optimized_Cha racter_Build)

I made some little changes to the stats so it's more balanced for my encounter, but it's 90% this build.

Race : Karsite.
Bond : Vargas, the dark god (just a RP replacement of the original Naberius)

- THE RANGER : (3rd pic) Lvl 14

ExLibrisMortis gave me the build, previous page again. We made a change : the ranger now uses an heavy crossbow instead of dual wielding crossbows. He starts the fight with a poisoned bolt, then drops the crossbow and uses javelins with skirmish.

- THE CHANGELING :

It's a monster, so I put some stats in it. He does not have a build. He looks like a Rakshassa but can shapechange into the ranger at will. He is mostly used for deception, as he takes the face of the ranger and show himself to force focus.


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I don't think I will build from the scratch other NPC groups, but I will definitely do it for bosses.
Now I have a better idea of what the NPCs and players may have access at a certain level, so I can just drop a bunch of stats, feats and stances on a sheet and voila. But I really needed to understand a lot of things and I would not have been able to do so a week ago. Thanks of the community. :)