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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Martial Archetype: Shieldbasher [PEACH]



DracoKnight
2016-06-11, 06:23 AM
After seeing this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?480513-TWF-w-shield) entertaining thread on the 5e forum, I decided to whip up this fighter subclass, just for the lols. That said, it seems like it would be fun to play a fighter in full plate who picks up two shields and goes to town soaking up the enemies' attacks for the party. Here's my 5e Shieldbasher (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/S1_0QOK4) for your critiques and criticisms. :smallsmile:

Final Hyena
2016-06-11, 08:20 AM
Offensive Defense
You are essentially giving dual wielding with +4ac. Which is very powerful, it might be needed to make duel wielding worth while, is it possible to push the second shields ac to another level?

Armored Shell
As is you're getting 23 damage reduction without even considering magical armour, and then throw damage resistance on top!

What about if Frontliner was pushed to 18th level and level 15 allowed you to gain the bonus of two shields to your ac?

GandalfTheWhite
2016-06-11, 01:12 PM
Offensive Defense
You are essentially giving dual wielding with +4ac. Which is very powerful, it might be needed to make duel wielding worth while, is it possible to push the second shields ac to another level?

I want to point out that it is very powerful, but that the player probably doesn't have full plate yet. So with this, they can manage an AC of 20 (Chain mail + 2 shields). But an AC of 20 19 is already doable at 1st level, so I don't personally see a problem with it. I could be wrong, but... And also, if you want to dual-wield shields by 3rd level when you get this, you'd have to take the dual-wielder feat as a Vuman at 1st level. If you look at the shields none of them have the light property. So you're wielding one shield except for a Vuman who took dual wielder over EVERY OTHER USEFUL FEAT.


Armored Shell
As is you're getting 23 damage reduction without even considering magical armour, and then throw damage resistance on top!

Considering that the barbarian is the only effective tank at the moment... I don't see an issue - and remember, 5e doesn't assume magical items. And honestly, I think that this DR is only impressive because HAM is so underwhelming... :smalltongue: you get it at 18th level - when you're basically fighting GODS! At this point the champion never dies, the eldritch knight is the best gish, and the battle master is pulling all sorts of tricks to punish you for even thinking you could be a match for him.

POST COFFEE EDIT: sorry, I really came across as aggressive. That was not my intent at all. Your concerns were totally valid. How can I say what I wanted to say, but nicer?

I don't think allowing the +4 AC or the DR at 18th level are broken. Now, I think that at 15th level they could definitely get something more INTERESTING than resistances, but those resistances also help them tank better, which is always good, and it means that the Barbearian isn't the only decent tank option for any game that allows this homebrew.

JNAProductions
2016-06-11, 02:21 PM
Offensive Defense is pretty damn powerful. You're looking at an AC of 2 higher than any other at least at the cost of a single feat (which we all know Fighters have the most of), and if combined with a magic shield... Even without, you can easily get AC 23 (Full Plate, Two Shields, and Defensive Fighting Style) which can only be matched by a pure defense Barbarian, while you stay Strength SAD. Too much.

Guardian Strikes seems out of place. No other Fighter gets this, and chances are you'll have a magic shield. (Even if it's only ability is "Being magic".) I'd replace it.

Enduring Warrior... I'd get rid of the bit about allowing you to change the save type, and just leave it as Evasion.

Frontliner is WAY too much. That's what Barbarians get... At level 20. And it still requires their bonus action.

Armored Shell is EVEN MORE too much. I get that it's a capstone, but that's -23 to -32 damage per hit. Cracking open my Monster Manual, with NO magic items (or at least no +X to AC items) if Big T hits you with a full round of attacks, you take, on average, 15 points of damage. 15. And if you have resistance THEN DR, it actually does 0.

DracoKnight, you done goofed when making this. Nerf it. Hard.

Requiemforlust
2016-06-11, 02:22 PM
I'm very wary of giving out a 23 (or higher) DR.

OTOH...it's at level 18 and resistance to a damage type can amount to more than that...as my group just witnessed the other day. (Dragonborn got hit by 67 acid damage for failing a saving throw, and ended up only taking 33 damage.

JNAProductions
2016-06-11, 02:25 PM
Well, let's check something.

A Fighter with GWM, 20 Strength, and an ordinary greatsword will deal, on average, 0 damage to you. (Even with GWM on!)

And can do a max of 4 damage. (2, thanks to resistance.)

Meanwhile, you can bash for 1d6+5 four times, hitting normally and doing normal damage.

This is literally able to kill any other fighter (except a Mobile Wood Elf Longbow user, who can kite him) with ease.

DracoKnight
2016-06-11, 02:32 PM
Offensive Defense is pretty damn powerful. You're looking at an AC of 2 higher than any other at least at the cost of a single feat (which we all know Fighters have the most of), and if combined with a magic shield... Even without, you can easily get AC 23 (Full Plate, Two Shields, and Defensive Fighting Style) which can only be matched by a pure defense Barbarian, while you stay Strength SAD. Too much.

But to have that AC of 23, you're never dealing more than 1d6+STR damage per attack.


Guardian Strikes seems out of place. No other Fighter gets this, and chances are you'll have a magic shield. (Even if it's only ability is "Being magic".) I'd replace it.

Well, I'm glad it's different - that's what I was going for. I get annoyed when subclasses (within a class) have the same features. And actually, this proposes something interesting - is a magical shield magical for the purposes of defending, or would a a+1 shield also give you +1 to attack and damage?


Frontliner is WAY too much. That's what Barbarians get... At level 20. And it still requires their bonus action.

Agreed, my 4am brain thought it was reasonable, but I done goofed. What would you recommend?


Armored Shell is EVEN MORE too much. I get that it's a capstone, but that's -23 to -32 damage per hit. Cracking open my Monster Manual, with NO magic items (or at least no +X to AC items) if Big T hits you with a full round of attacks, you take, on average, 15 points of damage. 15. And if you have resistance THEN DR, it actually does 0.

DracoKnight, you done goofed when making this. Nerf it. Hard.

What would be appropriate DR, because (to me) HAM is way too underwhelming...maybe CON mod + 5 DR? Something like that?

DracoKnight
2016-06-11, 02:34 PM
Well, let's check something.

A Fighter with GWM, 20 Strength, and an ordinary greatsword will deal, on average, 0 damage to you. (Even with GWM on!)

And can do a max of 4 damage. (2, thanks to resistance.)

Meanwhile, you can bash for 1d6+5 four times, hitting normally and doing normal damage.

This is literally able to kill any other fighter (except a Mobile Wood Elf Longbow user, who can kite him) with ease.

Yes, obviously the DR + resistance is too much. I'm going to change armored shell to CON mod + 5, what would you suggest level 15's feature becomes?

JNAProductions
2016-06-11, 02:34 PM
No DR. Literally only one thing in all of 5E gives DR-not even any monsters have it.

Move the resistances to 18th level.

And add some way to daze enemies at 15th-or perhaps a way to protect allies.

DracoKnight
2016-06-11, 02:37 PM
No DR. Literally only one thing in all of 5E gives DR-not even any monsters have it.

Move the resistances to 18th level.

Okay.


And add some way to daze enemies at 15th-or perhaps a way to protect allies.

What about something like Tunnel Fighter - but as the protection fighting style. "You use a bonus action on your turn to enter a defensive stance. Until the end of your next round hostile creatures have disadvantage on attack rolls against allies within 5 feet of you. You must be wielding a shield to use this feature."

JNAProductions
2016-06-11, 02:39 PM
Okay.



What about something like Tunnel Fighter - but as the protection fighting style. "You use a bonus action on your turn to enter a defensive stance. Until the end of your next round hostile creatures have disadvantage on attack rolls against allies within 5 feet of you. You must be wielding a shield to use this feature."

Perfect. That sounds like an excellent feature.

DracoKnight
2016-06-11, 02:42 PM
Perfect. That sounds like an excellent feature.

It has been changed :smallsmile:

Final Hyena
2016-06-11, 04:42 PM
I don't think allowing the +4 AC or the DR at 18th level are broken. Now, I think that at 15th level they could definitely get something more INTERESTING than resistances, but those resistances also help them tank better, which is always good, and it means that the Barbearian isn't the only decent tank option for any game that allows this homebrew.
You don't think 23+ DR isn't broken?
Most creatures on average will do 0 damage to you without spells.

Edit; To comment on the current version, I like it.