Drow Hand Crossbow rules

[schreier]

OK ... looking at making a Drow ... and was trying to use the Hand Crossbow, since it is a somewhat iconic item for them.

They have a feat, Versatile combatant:
Whenever you are armed with a rapier in your primary hand and a hand crossbow in your off hand, you are treated as having the Two-Weapon Fighting feat for the purpose of calculating attack penalties.
In addition, you do not provoke attacks of opportunity from adjacent opponents when you make ranged attacks with a hand crossbow.

So I started thinking about how that could work - then wondering if two hand crossbows wielded together would work. I've seen people post that two weapon fighting only works with hand weapons, but I don't see that in the text (it might be in a QA or FAQ or something?)

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#twoWeaponFighting

If you had two hand crossbows, both with the energy power, could you TWF with both? You would have to apply the energy power to crossbows (I'm thinking that, instead of when you pull the "string", it lights up when you put your finger on the trigger) ... but I think it could work?
http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20061227a

Does this work?

Thanks in advance
schreier

PS - also considering a "Swordbow" variant item (from MIC) - a "DaggerCrossbow" - changes from a dagger to a hand crossbow ... the "bow" part folds into itself to make the blade, and the handle rotates from a pistol grip position to straight from the body (i.e. rotate up like 70 degrees or whatever) ... does that sound cool or stupid?

[Zanos]

"You can shoot a hand crossbow with each hand, but you take a penalty on attack rolls as if attacking with two light weapons."

So TWF works fine at -2/-2. I'm not sure how the versatile combatant feat helps, since you aren't using a rapier.

[Darrin]

So I started thinking about how that could work - then wondering if two hand crossbows wielded together would work. I've seen people post that two weapon fighting only works with hand weapons, but I don't see that in the text (it might be in a QA or FAQ or something?)


TWF does not specify melee attacks, so you can use it to make an additional ranged attack if you like. Most of the time, this is with thrown weapons, as you can combine this with Rapid Shot and Quickdraw to make two extra attacks per round.

You can mix this in with melee attacks as well, if you have a hand free and are able to draw a new thrown weapon as a free action.

So you can TWF with light or hand crossbows if you like, but the sticking point here is how do you reload the crossbow if your other hand is holding a weapon? (I usually try to throw in a quip here about the designers seem to think that drow can reload hand crossbows with a rapier, but that joke isn't really supported by the rules.) Repeating or double crossbow might help here, as would the Quick Loading property (+1 enhancement, MIC).



So TWF works fine at -2/-2. I'm not sure how the versatile combatant feat helps, since you aren't using a rapier.

Hence the second part of the bonus: you don't provoke AoOs when making ranged attacks with the hand crossbow, allowing you to fire even when engaged in melee. This feature isn't available as a feat, but it does save you the trouble of taking a level in Exotic Weapon Master to get the "Close-Quarters Ranged Combat" stunt.

Drow also have the option of taking the Hand Crossbow Focus, which combines Rapid Reload with Weapon Focus for hand crossbows. Combining this with Versatile Combatant is sorta a double two-for-one deal: TWF, Rapid Reload, Weapon Focus, and Close Combat Shot.

All this sort of begs the question... why all the fuss and bother for an offhand weapon that only does 1d4 damage? Why not a dagger or kukri instead? And my answer would probably be... drow arrow poison on the hand crossbow bolts. If you use the Savage Species version, Fort Save DC is 17 instead of 13. Poisoned bolts are probably safer than applying poison to a melee weapon during combat, and you can have a professional do it without risking unscheduled naptime.



PS - also considering a "Swordbow" variant item (from MIC) - a "DaggerCrossbow" - changes from a dagger to a hand crossbow ... the "bow" part folds into itself to make the blade, and the handle rotates from a pistol grip position to straight from the body (i.e. rotate up like 70 degrees or whatever) ... does that sound cool or stupid?

Daggers can already be thrown, although the range increment is crap. There is also a "Hand Crossbow Blade" in Complete Scoundrel, so it feels a bit unnecessary to create a magic item that can be easily duplicated for only 4 GP.

[schreier]

The reason I included the versatile feat is just that is what got me started


There is also a "Hand Crossbow Blade" in Complete Scoundrel, so it feels a bit unnecessary to create a magic item that can be easily duplicated for only 4 GP.

You're right ... I had included it because I was thinking of using the daggerspell shaper with a wild shape ranger and that requires daggers ... reading the blade, it sounds like that would qualify for the class abilities though

For reloading ... I figured the energy enhancement would take care of that

[daremetoidareyo]

I played with a few stubs for this. Here is one that is pretty terrible unless you augment your biz with lots of gear, and I'm not entirely sure why I have swashbuckler in there...

Here is a kalashtar:



Level
Class
Feats


1
Martial rogue (UA)
Kung Fu Genius (1), Point blank shot(bonus)


2
Swashbuckler
weapon finesse


3
Swashbuckler
Hand crossbow focus


4
Swashbuckler



5
Fighter
2 weapon fighting


6
Monk
Unorthodox flurry, IUS, stunning fist


7
Monk
Monastic training


8
Fist of Dal quor



9
Fist of Dal quor
crossbow sniper


10
Fist of Dal quor



11
Fist of Dal Quor



12
Fist of Dal Quor
psionic shot?



Another build stub: this one's a human and i think the weirdness that I use for it is two weapon rend??? Another option on this stub is to take strongheart halfling (still get extra feat) and take the halfling monk substitution level so that you also get +1d6 skirmish. When two weapon rend comes online, you have 5 attacks at +12, 2 attacks at +7, and one attack at +2 all doing 1d4+12 damage (+17 if flatfooted). This is very inelegant, however, as you need to flip flop from chaotic to lawful to get the whirl pounce and flurry. Buy strength boosters so that your offhand rends do their 1d6 + (str bonus x 1.5)







1


Hit and Run Fighter
hand crossbow focus, Versatile combatant, Two weapon fighting




2


Psychic Warrior
Pointblank shot




3


Fighter
deadeye, rapid shot




4


Whirling Frenzy Barbarian: Pounce






5


psychic warrior
Precise shot




6


Fighter
Crossbow sniper,




7


Fighter
Weapon specialization




8


psychic warrior






9


Fighter
ranged weapon mastery




10


Fighter






11


Fighter
improved 2 weapon fighting




12


Monk
IUS, Unorthodox flurry, monastic training




13


Monk
monk feat




14


psychic warrior
Two Weapon Rend




15


Fighter
Tashalatora,




16


Exotic weapon master
(twin exotic weapon fighting)




17


Fighter
Greater weapon focus




18


Fighter
feat




19


Fighter
feat




20


Fighter