Did I go overboard min-max'ing this pixie rogue?

[flamewolf393]

Here's the sheet for it from myth weavers. I think I may have overdone it just a wee little bit. I used the book of weaboo fighting magic (aka tome of battle), and the savage species guide.

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=435108

Would you allow this in one of your games?

[Eldariel]

Only Pixie 4, the single HD is replaced by class level as per monstrous race rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monstersAsRaces.htm#startingLevelofaMonsterPC). So get one more level in there. Now, yeah, that seems perfectly fair. Pixie is strong in being invisible and flying, but monsters begin to have those bases covered so it's not as if you're completely going to trivialise the game. You're very squishy and your damage vs. sneak attack immune targets is quite limited (though certainly existent). You aren't doing anything casters haven't been doing for a while, really. Thus, yeah, I'd allow that in games where a Pixie character would make sense.

[Invader]

Im assuming you're crafting your own wonderous items since they're all half price. Aside from being a really cheesy way to try and double your starting gear/wealth, I don't see 3 caster levels to take craft wonderous, or the prereq caster levels needed for crafting. I also don't see flyby attack as a prereq for great flyby attack.

I also don't see all the experience you lost in crafting 90k+ worth of magic equipment.

I don't see any TWF feats for the second crescent knife and remember that for a pixie neither one is going to be a light weapon because they're small creatures.

Also can you clarify where all your feats are coming from. You get 3 from class levels (assuming 6 lvls and 4 LA from pixie which was already mentioned needs fixed), 2 from flaws, dodge and weapon finesse from pixie, uncanny dodge and evasion from rogue, where are the 3 extra feats in the left column coming from?

That was a cursory glance but no I wouldn't allow you to play this character.

[Troacctid]

Well, let's see. You have some items that I'm pretty sure do not exist, other items marked down at the wrong price, some illegal feats, some feats I have never heard of, some illegal skill tricks, lots and lots of illegal skill ranks, and an illegal stance. You have yourself down as adding Dex to damage twice, where as far as I can tell you should get it zero times. You kept your racial hit die for some reason. I don't know what ftr(arc) is supposed to be, and I'm guessing swb and swsg are supposed to be swashbuckler and swordsage, but what do I know?

Basically, you have a lot of rules issues. If you wanted to play this character in one of my games, you'd have to fix all that, and you'd have to cut it down to the allowed sources. That's assuming I waived my usual ban on level adjustments above +1, of course.

[flamewolf393]

Oh right, one big thing I forgot about (made this long time ago, just pulled it out again recently) was that we were using pathfinder rules for crafting and feat progression.

@invader: Levels in a race that have SLA count as caster levels for crafting prereqs; Im using gloves of the balanced hand to grant TWF; huh, the flyby attack does seemed to have been over looked. my bad.

@troacctid: Im using a varient fighter that gets +dex to damage against flat footed opponenets at 1st level, and shadow blade feat gives dex to damage. Why are the skill tricks illegal? And why would the stance be illegal? As far as items, because of custom magic item rules you can make basically anything you want. Im assuming you are referring to the rings. Those are at will use items of the stored spell, which is caster level*spell level*2k base value, or 1k for crafting myself. The skill points do seem to be a bit much (seem to be over by 67 points), Im trying to figure out where they all came from, might be myth-weavers bug.

[Cedar]

Did you make a mistake with AC or did I miss something? Mitril armour gives +8 maxDex according to your sheet (How? Adds up to +5 for me). But in your AC calculation you add +9 to Dex..

[flamewolf393]

Mundane enhancement, "fitted". Can pay extra to decrease ACP or increase max dex, and stacks with itself. I think its 500gp per point. And fix'd on the +8 vs +9.

[Cedar]

Mundane enhancement, "fitted". Can pay extra to decrease ACP or increase max dex, and stacks with itself. I think its 500gp per point. And fix'd on the +8 vs +9.

Interesting, do you have a source for this enhancement?


Would you allow this in one of your games?

Depends on the power level of the other characters in your group. But I'm a really lenient DM, if you follow rules and keep in line with other players I'm satisfied.

Edit: And I'd need to have a hard think about allowing price reductions on crafting items with starting characters.

[Gnaeus]

As far as items, because of custom magic item rules you can make basically anything you want. Im assuming you are referring to the rings. Those are at will use items of the stored spell, which is caster level*spell level*2k base value, or 1k for crafting myself.

You didn't ask if it was RAW legal. You asked if it was too much/if we would allow it. Custom magic items are legal only if allowed by the DM, and often break item pricing guidelines massively. So, no, my game wouldn't allow those rings either.

[Gildedragon]

If you're using variants, houserules, etc you need to state these upfront with sources (for those that have them), otherwise it feels sneaky and underhanded.

Also crescent knives don't work with shadow blade as It only works with shadow hand weapons

Also I'd say no to the Rings. At the least I'd make them charges per day

[nedz]

Did you go overboard min-max'ing this pixie rogue ?

No - it's not a caster and has +4 LA.

You have munchkinned it up quite a bit though.

Others have covered most of the issues.

Swordsage 1 only allows you to take a level 1 Stance, Manoeuvres can be anything you have the IL and pre-reqs for - but you have to take a level 1 stance at level 1 in all of the initiator classed. So, Assassin's stance is out.

You have too many feats, too many skill points and too many skill tricks (max 1 per 2 character levels, which is 3 skill tricks max)

Also you have some broken custom items at bargain basement prices - you're only missing the Ring of True Strike :smallsigh:

What are Semtex parts ? Actually I misread that as Semtex pants - which would be much more appropriate :smallamused:

[Troacctid]

Oh right, one big thing I forgot about (made this long time ago, just pulled it out again recently) was that we were using pathfinder rules for crafting and feat progression.
Pathfinder rules recommend that each item crafting feat a player takes should only allow that player to increase their starting wealth by 25% rather than doubling it.


I'm using a varient fighter that gets +dex to damage against flat footed opponenets at 1st level
But you have no reliable way to make enemies flat-footed, aside from winning initiative. (Invisibility only denies them their Dex to AC.)


and shadow blade feat gives dex to damage.
Only with Shadow Hand weapons, which you aren't using.


Why are the skill tricks illegal?
You can only have as many as half your level.


And why would the stance be illegal?
It's a 3rd level stance, and you're only allowed a 1st level stance.


As far as items, because of custom magic item rules you can make basically anything you want. Im assuming you are referring to the rings. Those are at will use items of the stored spell, which is caster level*spell level*2k base value, or 1k for crafting myself.
That's not how custom items work. The DM sets their price based on what the cost would be for an existing similar item. There are guidelines, but the guidelines are only suggestions, and carry no hard weight under the rules.

And you can't craft rings.


The skill points do seem to be a bit much (seem to be over by 67 points), Im trying to figure out where they all came from, might be myth-weavers bug.
You cannot have more than 9 ranks in a class skill or 4 ranks in a cross-class skill, but you have 13 ranks in a lot of skills, even cross-class ones.

[Crake]

To mirror much of the opinion of this thread, I would have no issue with the character itself, but what you've put together is an illegal mess of rules, which would need to be fixed up before being playable. Additionally, I would only let players I trust play such a character, as for an unknown player, it seems like it'd be used more as an excuse to be disruptive, rather than flavourful.

[flamewolf393]

Pathfinder rules recommend that each item crafting feat a player takes should only allow that player to increase their starting wealth by 25% rather than doubling it.


But you have no reliable way to make enemies flat-footed, aside from winning initiative. (Invisibility only denies them their Dex to AC.)


Only with Shadow Hand weapons, which you aren't using.


You can only have as many as half your level.


It's a 3rd level stance, and you're only allowed a 1st level stance.


That's not how custom items work. The DM sets their price based on what the cost would be for an existing similar item. There are guidelines, but the guidelines are only suggestions, and carry no hard weight under the rules.

And you can't craft rings.


You cannot have more than 9 ranks in a class skill or 4 ranks in a cross-class skill, but you have 13 ranks in a lot of skills, even cross-class ones.

-I have spec'd in quick effective feinting (mostly with the skill tricks)

-crescent knife is counted as a type of dagger.

-that i didnt know

-your martial level adds half of other class levels for qualifying for stances/manuevers. I took the swordsage last for this express purpose.

-as far as I have ever been told this chart is RaW: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm

-you can make wonderous items to take any body slot. or no slot, though that costs more.

-class skill ranks cap at your level +3. Im level 10, so thats rank 13.

[Eldariel]

-your martial level adds half of other class levels for qualifying for stances/manuevers. I took the swordsage last for this express purpose.

The first level only allows for first level stance. It's explicitly spelled out in the classes. Swordsage 2 would allow picking up Assassin's Stance though, in two levels (you need IL 5 so 6 levels in non-initiators and then 2 levels in initiator would grant you 6/2 + 2 = IL 5 on Swordsage 2).


-as far as I have ever been told this chart is RaW: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm

-you can make wonderous items to take any body slot. or no slot, though that costs more.

Those are all guidelines. Fine if the DM approves of them but by default, such items do not exist.


-class skill ranks cap at your level +3. Im level 10, so thats rank 13.

You are level 6 with 4 Level Adjustment. You cap out at rank 9. Level adjustment, unlike HD, does not contain HD and thus you're treated as a level 6 character for most purposes aside from acquiring experience. This is generally why level adjustment is so frowned upon - it's really a huge detriment, not least of which because of certain spells that have an effect based on your HD (the level adjusted character is in rather more dire straits against e.g.

[flamewolf393]

No, there is no level adjustment. Using the savage species, those pixie levels are actual levels, not LA.

[fishyfishyfishy]

No, I wouldn't allow it because I don't allow Savage Species. It's usually used as an excuse to do something cheesy and there's always a more elegant solution available, even if that solution ends up being a house rule.

The basic concept us fine but it wouldn't fly at my table, though I wouldn't condemn anyone who would allow it.

[Deadline]

No, there is no level adjustment. Using the savage species, those pixie levels are actual levels, not LA.

That's incorrect. The savage species progressions account for LA. See every level where you don't get a HD? That's a point of LA. You'll also notice that you don't gain skill points at those levels. The Savage Species progressions are just there to allow you to play a lower powered version of the monster starting at level 1 up through the Monster's ECL (RHD + Class Levels + LA). Feats and skill points are still determined by your HD, not your ECL or "Monster Class Levels". For example, the Minotaur class in there is 8 "levels" long. The Minotaur is 6 RHD + 2 LA. You can see that the two LA are factored into the class at the 3rd and 5th monster class levels. You can also see that the Minotaur doesn't get skill points there, and doesn't get a feat at 3rd like it normally would (because it only has 2HD at that point). The 3.5 Monster Manual and 3.5 DMG (pgs 172-173) cover this fairly well, and Urpriest on these forums has a super helpful guide in his sig to show how this all works in much more detail.

Basically, your feat progression and max skill ranks are determined by your HD total (whether from RHD, classes, or both), not your ECL.

[Gildedragon]

-crescent knife is counted as a type of dagger.

Could I get a source for that? Because I'm reading the dragon magazine issue where they're specced out and I'm not seeing anything to that effect.

[Troacctid]

-your martial level adds half of other class levels for qualifying for stances/manuevers. I took the swordsage last for this express purpose.
You have IL 3 when you take your first swordsage level. That entitles you to 2nd level maneuvers, not 3rd. And even if there were any 2nd level stances, you could still only choose a 1st level stance. The class is specific on that point.


-as far as I have ever been told this chart is RaW: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm
The RAW tells the DM to use that chart as a guideline to help determine a custom item's price, but to ultimately adjust based on the item's actual value. A player cannot create a custom item using that chart—it is strictly for the DM.


-class skill ranks cap at your level +3. Im level 10, so thats rank 13.
You have a +4 LA that doesn't count. You also have 13 ranks in some cross-class skills like Iaijutsu Focus—even a 10th level character can't do that.


-I have spec'd in quick effective feinting (mostly with the skill tricks)
Feinting does not make the opponent flat-footed.


-you can make wonderous items to take any body slot. or no slot, though that costs more.
You need Forge Ring to craft a ring.


No, there is no level adjustment. Using the savage species, those pixie levels are actual levels, not LA.
Savage Species rules don't work that way. A completed monster class is identical to what you would have gotten under the core monster rules. That's the point. Even if that weren't the case, you're talking about using obsolete 3.0 material when a 3.5 update exists, which I would not allow, and I suspect most DMs would agree.