Singing Voice Problem

[Pavbat666]

So this is awfully weird, but I wanted to ask a question about my singing. I am 13 years of age, and I mean this doesn't really fit into these forums, but I feel like I have a problem with my singing voice. By the way, I am also a boy, in case you were wondering. You see, I sing really high for my age, and gender, and I can't at all hit low notes well without REALLY, and I mean REALLY straining myself. People my age of my gender all sing lower than me, and many people tell me its just puberty, and everyone changes at different times. This isn't really comforting, and it bothers me. I can sing way higher than all the other boys though, even ones that are younger than me, and I can even outsing some alto girls. Do I have a naturally high voice, and will it go away during puberty. I am not an expert on music, but I have done some research on voice types, but it says that my voice will change, and its too early to find my voice type. Is there something besides puberty? Can I grow up to be a tenor or countertenor, or can my voice change so much that I could even end up as a bass? Any more knowledge on voice types would be greatly appreciated, and if anyone could shed some light on the whole puberty thing. Also, once again, I am far from an expert, and this is why I am asking so many questions.

Thanks in Advance!

[Kislath]

I don't think you'll ever be a bass. You're a tenor. You might wind up a barritone someday.

It's perfectly fine to be a tenor. Heck, they used to castrate guys to keep them tenors.
In fact, if you should become a barritone, you'll find yourself always missing not being able to hit the high notes anymore.

I was a tenor. I tried & tried to stay one, but I wound up a barritone.

I was in chorus class and in singing groups, and I found that the bass and barritone parts were always very boring, so I tried to stay a tenor where the action was. Eventually I had to concede defeat. Now I'm a barritone, and I can't hit the high ones or the low ones. The only real downside is that there isn't much music written for barritones.

Practice, practice, practice. You have to keep your instrument tuned or it will fail. If you're serious about singing, find a voice coach.

[Eldariel]

Honestly, it's impossible to say where your voice will land. While I know it's not comforting (I went through the same thing myself), the fact that "it's just puberty" is basically the whole story. Give it time. Don't worry about it. Well, rather, it's nothing you can do anything about so worrying won't get you anywhere. It's something only time will sort out - biology taking its course. Your voice will change significantly and unpredictably in the coming years.

I can say this out of personal experience: I used to have a ridiculously high pitch as a kid, to the point that some people couldn't understand me and I was frequently mistaken for a girl (my natural blonde curls and small frame exactly didn't help matters). I'm a male and I can comfortably sing baritone and with effort, bass voices nowadays. My voice is actually much lower than typical for my size.


Now, singing voice is of course something you can train but be sure to not overexert your voice: it will be harmful if you try to produce sounds far outside your normal range at that age. Once the vocal tract has completed its development, you're free to do as you please but at this point, I recommend temper. Studying singing is still certainly useful and there's a lot you can learn about using your lungs and how to produce certain types of resonance and overall, all the different tuning you can do for your voice. Just keep to something that's comfortable for you for the moment and move on with time.

I know this is probably useless - if someone told me this when I was 13, I would've probably scoffed at them and stated I don't want to wait or some such. I know you don't want to wait and I know you're annoyed by the present state of affairs and I understand that you'll be even more annoyed because all I'm offering you is the same you've heard everywhere. I'll say it anyways: it's no use trying to accelerate biological processes (in fact, attempts to do so are often harmful in the long term). Your voice will change. In the meanwhile, make the best you can of what you have right now - you could think of it as a problem but you could also think of it as the last chance of your life to sing in a voice no man can produce.

In fact, I'd almost recommend you consider e.g. recording your singing now - it's an ability that will be forever lost very soon. Rather than race for the future, see if you could find joy in the present. High voices can be used to a great effect and there are lots of great pieces (e.g. Cantores Minores pieces) written with specifically such a voice in effect. High voice doesn't make you any less of a person, and I recommend you think of it as a gift rather than a curse. Being an outlier is great! It means you're able to do things others cannot.

[Pavbat666]

I don't think you'll ever be a bass. You're a tenor. You might wind up a barritone someday.

It's perfectly fine to be a tenor. Heck, they used to castrate guys to keep them tenors.
In fact, if you should become a barritone, you'll find yourself always missing not being able to hit the high notes anymore.

I was a tenor. I tried & tried to stay one, but I wound up a barritone.

I was in chorus class and in singing groups, and I found that the bass and barritone parts were always very boring, so I tried to stay a tenor where the action was. Eventually I had to concede defeat. Now I'm a barritone, and I can't hit the high ones or the low ones. The only real downside is that there isn't much music written for barritones.

Practice, practice, practice. You have to keep your instrument tuned or it will fail. If you're serious about singing, find a voice coach.

Thank you for the explanation, and now looking into it more, I would LOVE to become a tenor. My friend suggests trying to do vocal warmups that would "supposedly" extend my range of low notes. I just want to be able to sing the low notes a little better, but I don't want to go too low. Is there any way of still preserving my high voice, while still practicing my low notes, or is this just all sounding quite stupid, because I am genuinely confused right now... Anyway, it would help me practice those low notes, because I got the role of Grandpa Joe in Willy Wonka, and I have to speak in a stereotypical "old man voice", which makes it very hard to sing high. Plus, Grandpa Joe doesn't have the highest notes in the musical, I believe they pair his more "baritone" (if I am not mistaken) voice, with Charlie's very high "soprano" voice. Anything I could do on that?

[Red Fel]

Thank you for the explanation, and now looking into it more, I would LOVE to become a tenor. My friend suggests trying to do vocal warmups that would "supposedly" extend my range of low notes. I just want to be able to sing the low notes a little better, but I don't want to go too low. Is there any way of still preserving my high voice, while still practicing my low notes, or is this just all sounding quite stupid, because I am genuinely confused right now... Anyway, it would help me practice those low notes, because I got the role of Grandpa Joe in Willy Wonka, and I have to speak in a stereotypical "old man voice", which makes it very hard to sing high. Plus, Grandpa Joe doesn't have the highest notes in the musical, I believe they pair his more "baritone" (if I am not mistaken) voice, with Charlie's very high "soprano" voice. Anything I could do on that?

Some people can train themselves to have a slightly broader range than their natural one, but it's hard. You certainly couldn't go from tenor to basso profundo, for instance, even if you tried. That said, it's also really difficult to predict vocal changes over time, as others have said. I was a pretty high tenor in my youth; now, I can pull off a convincing Darth Vader. (Or, for musical comparison, Caiaphas from Jesus Christ Superstar.) Part of that was me pushing my voice, part of it was a couple of decades of age. It varies.

That said, I wouldn't worry. There are parts for every vocal range. I'm probably misattributing, but I recall something that Angela Lansbury, Most Excellent Lady of Stage and Screen, Large and Small said about singing - it's basically speaking in your normal range, but to music. That's the real trick of it. Don't try to force your range; make your range work for you.

Now, as for Grandpa Joe, there's nothing wrong with an "old man voice" in a higher pitch. Admittedly, it's not ideal if he's higher pitch than Charlie, but we work with what we're given. My advice is to worry less about the vocal range, and more about the characterization - a bit of a scratch or wheeze to it should naturally differentiate and "age" it nicely. The audience is more forgiving if your character is convincing.

And you're thirteen. Nobody's expecting professional casting. Nobody's expecting Len Cariou in Sweeney Todd. Do your best. You got a major role in this play; that speaks to talent. You'll do well. Always try to improve, but at this age, don't expect to be able to play every part perfectly, with ideal range and inflection.

We're not all Patti LuPone.

[Eldariel]

You might be interested in reading this (http://www.claudiafriedlander.com/the-liberated-voice/thats-not-opera-its-an-opportunity.html) - a classical teacher's pointers for a 13-year old girl who sang Nessun Dorma (an incredibly impressive aria from the finale of Puccini's opera 'Turandot'). Basically, don't try too hastily to go for beyond your natural ability lest you pay for it later. In your case for instance, if you can pull off something of an old man voice that ought to suffice. Nobody will expect or demand something outside your ability: indeed, the expectations should be in line with your natural progress. Actually, we had a singing exam while I was undergoing my voice mutation at the age of 14 - the teacher gave me an excellent grade in spite of my voice being what it was. That is to say, everyone in the audience is probably aware of the effect puberty might have on one's voice and thus you shouldn't be worried about pulling off an incredible range of voices nor about the possible occasional voice crack.

Vocal warm-up is a time-tested method of increasing one's range. There's nothing wrong with doing so and it should enable both, singing in a wider range and singing the extreme notes more cleanly. For the purposes of this musical, that's about all you can do and I believe it should help you pull off both, some kind of a lower voice (just adapt Old Man Joe into your Old Man Joe; don't try to fit a mold, make the mold fit you) and your normal singing voice. However, in the long term it's likely that there's no way to maintain your high singing voice. There's also no way to tell where your voice will land after voice mutation has run its course.

[Icewraith]

So this is awfully weird, but I wanted to ask a question about my singing. I am 13 years of age, and I mean this doesn't really fit into these forums, but I feel like I have a problem with my singing voice. By the way, I am also a boy, in case you were wondering. You see, I sing really high for my age, and gender, and I can't at all hit low notes well without REALLY, and I mean REALLY straining myself. People my age of my gender all sing lower than me, and many people tell me its just puberty, and everyone changes at different times. This isn't really comforting, and it bothers me. I can sing way higher than all the other boys though, even ones that are younger than me, and I can even outsing some alto girls. Do I have a naturally high voice, and will it go away during puberty. I am not an expert on music, but I have done some research on voice types, but it says that my voice will change, and its too early to find my voice type. Is there something besides puberty? Can I grow up to be a tenor or countertenor, or can my voice change so much that I could even end up as a bass? Any more knowledge on voice types would be greatly appreciated, and if anyone could shed some light on the whole puberty thing. Also, once again, I am far from an expert, and this is why I am asking so many questions.

Thanks in Advance!

I had the really amazing range when I was little and ended up a bass. It can happen, and I didn't sing for years because everything just sounded weird.

My advice, looking back? Play the hand you're dealt, and don't stop singing (unless someone with experience dealing with this area profesionally or semi-professionally says otherwise). I decided to just stop trying and start again once my voice stopped changing but by the time it did I had developed some major insecurities about my voice and was horribly out of practice to boot. Nobody knows how your voice will turn out. However, if you keep singing while your voice is changing you won't get out of practice. In theory you might retain more of your range, but there's no guarantee that will happen (and it's very difficult to prove it worked or didn't in retrospect).

And if you end up as a bass, but desire a career in music? Write some good songs in our vocal range, please. Pickings at karaeoke are slim, and that doesn't help at all when it comes to singing.

Also, once you start getting zits, don't pick at them. Especially if they're on your face. Picking at them causes scarring and puts extra oil and bacteria from your hands on your skin, causing more zits.

The general rule of thumb during puberty is that things will be awkward and embarassing at times, but you should be ok in the end. 1) Protect and 2) improve your (and other people's) mind and body, 3) learn how to do things that interest you, and 4) have fun. As long as you don't violate 1) or 2) in pursuit of 3) or 4) you can have a great time. If you don't do 4) things will suck. If you don't do 3) you'll wish you had done 3 later (and might be more unhappy as an adult). If you violate 2) in pursuit of 3) or 4) you'll wish you had studied more or kept in shape or sang or drawn or acquired more skills later. Being good at things can be rewarding in many ways. If you violate 1) in pursuit of 2), 3), or 4) you can end up depressed, diseased, damaged, disabled, detained, dead, or a dad. Seriously. Opportunities will be greater, but the stakes sometimes (not always, but sometimes) are much higher and more permanent.

[Lethologica]

Your body's gonna do what your body's gonna do. Keep tuning it anyway. I was one of the last male sopranos in my middle school choir, and now I'm decidedly bass (~D2-E4 chest voice, no falsetto worth speaking of), but my vocal quality went to hell because I stopped practicing after my voice broke. There's nothing wrong with having a high voice or a low voice--just make your voice a good voice, whatever range it has.

EDIT: Wait, why didn't I just +1 Icewraith's post? Oh, right, no +1 on this forum. Clearly we need a bass meetup.

[Alias]

So this is awfully weird, but I wanted to ask a question about my singing. I am 13 years of age, and I mean this doesn't really fit into these forums, but I feel like I have a problem with my singing voice. By the way, I am also a boy, in case you were wondering. You see, I sing really high for my age, and gender, and I can't at all hit low notes well without REALLY, and I mean REALLY straining myself. People my age of my gender all sing lower than me, and many people tell me its just puberty, and everyone changes at different times. This isn't really comforting, and it bothers me. I can sing way higher than all the other boys though, even ones that are younger than me, and I can even outsing some alto girls. Do I have a naturally high voice, and will it go away during puberty. I am not an expert on music, but I have done some research on voice types, but it says that my voice will change, and its too early to find my voice type. Is there something besides puberty? Can I grow up to be a tenor or countertenor, or can my voice change so much that I could even end up as a bass? Any more knowledge on voice types would be greatly appreciated, and if anyone could shed some light on the whole puberty thing. Also, once again, I am far from an expert, and this is why I am asking so many questions.

Thanks in Advance!

I was in the Soprano section until 16. When I was your age I could hit notes that Mariah Carey can't get to. Even toay I can still sing Alto for an all male choir. This vocal range is known as a Countertenor, and it's nothing to be ashamed of. Michael Jackson and Mike Tyson also fall into this voice range. Sing what is comfortable for you without straining yourself. And also, voice switches for most don't occur until 14-15, so it's a little early to be fretting about it just yet.

[Alias]

I don't think you'll ever be a bass. You're a tenor. You might wind up a barritone someday.

It's perfectly fine to be a tenor. Heck, they used to castrate guys to keep them tenors.

No, they did not. You're thinking of a castrato, and those do not exist anymore for good reason (at least through castration - there are a handful of castrati around that are that way due to hormonal imbalances).

Countertenor is the highest naturally occuring male range. I'm in that range and it overlaps with contralto, the lowest naturally occuring female range. Pirrelli in "Sweeny Todd" is an example of a Broadway part written for this range. Countertenors are at their strongest between f3 and f4 and can reach down to c3 and up to c5 or a bit higher (I peak at d5 before risking laryngitis for a week). Tenors are roughly a3 to a5 - Bring Him Home from Les Miserables is a high tenor piece but not absurdly so. Baritones span the same general range as tenors but their power notes are lower. Just as some tenors have difficulty with a3 some barrys can't deal with a5. Bass singers are expected to be able to hit c2 and aren't asked to go above c4. Contrabass or "church bass" singers can get all the way down to a2, but that's the floor.

There are two major concerns to voice - the power or tessitura range which, for most singers, spans an octave at most, and the full range. When writing pieces 80% of a singer's notes should fall in their tessitura. This is the operative difference between a soprano and a mezzo-soprano. They have the same range but the mezzi is more comfortable in the lower half of it. Same with tenors and baritones. Even countertenors vs. contraltos have this mark with countertenors having the lower tessitura, albeit the highest seen in men.

OP: Most men shift about an octave down. So if you're a soprano now you'll be a tenor. If you're like me and a "How the hell is he hitting that note?" high as a kid you'll be a countertenor - there was a time when I could hit c6 and hold it.

[Icewraith]

No, they did not. You're thinking of a castrato, and those do not exist anymore for good reason (at least through castration - there are a handful of castrati around that are that way due to hormonal imbalances).

Countertenor is the highest naturally occuring male range. I'm in that range and it overlaps with contralto, the lowest naturally occuring female range. Pirrelli in "Sweeny Todd" is an example of a Broadway part written for this range. Countertenors are at their strongest between f3 and f4 and can reach down to c3 and up to c5 or a bit higher (I peak at d5 before risking laryngitis for a week). Tenors are roughly a3 to a5 - Bring Him Home from Les Miserables is a high tenor piece but not absurdly so. Baritones span the same general range as tenors but their power notes are lower. Just as some tenors have difficulty with a3 some barrys can't deal with a5. Bass singers are expected to be able to hit c2 and aren't asked to go above c4. Contrabass or "church bass" singers can get all the way down to a2, but that's the floor.

There are two major concerns to voice - the power or tessitura range which, for most singers, spans an octave at most, and the full range. When writing pieces 80% of a singer's notes should fall in their tessitura. This is the operative difference between a soprano and a mezzo-soprano. They have the same range but the mezzi is more comfortable in the lower half of it. Same with tenors and baritones. Even countertenors vs. contraltos have this mark with countertenors having the lower tessitura, albeit the highest seen in men.

OP: Most men shift about an octave down. So if you're a soprano now you'll be a tenor. If you're like me and a "How the hell is he hitting that note?" high as a kid you'll be a countertenor - there was a time when I could hit c6 and hold it.

Yeah, there's no guarantee he'll end up a tenor. The thing about genetics is that due to random effects, things that hold true for most people can end up not applying to you specifically. For instance, everyone may tell you to look at your mother's brother to see whether or not you're going to go bald. This is the general rule of thumb that works for a lot of people and has to do with how the X and Y chromosomes work in men. However, it doesn't work for some people (i.e. me) and their hair starts thinning just like dad's did right when dad was their age. After they spent their entire life to that point giving dad crap about how he was going bald and they weren't going to. So when people tell you how you're going to end up- don't get your hopes up. If it works out, great, but if it doesn't, you still have to play the hand you're dealt. And you may end up with a voice that's more comfortable with "Old Man River" than "Bring Him Home" (also known as and eventually parodied as "god it's high").

And if you do, it's ok.

[Scarlet Knight]

Until your voice changes, may I suggest you listen and learn some Smokey Robinson while you can. :smallcool:

[Kislath]

HA!!! Yes! You can't go wrong with Smokey.

Try a little "The Lion Sleeps Tonight" while you're at it. I can actually still do that one, but only because I've been doing it for decades.

Look up a guy named Del Shannon. He was a rock singer in the 60's who famously hit the high ones in falsetto. His songs are great, and fun to sing.
Lou Christie is another guy to consider, but his songs are going to be harder. There's no way I can do them, but maybe you can.

[Alias]

Yeah, there's no guarantee he'll end up a tenor.

Is there a part of the word "most" you cannot comprehend?

(Useless pedantry is a pet peeve of mine).

[Red Fel]

(also known as and eventually parodied as "god it's high").

Seriously, is it bad that when I think about some classic showtunes I end up using the Forbidden Broadway lyrics by mistake?

I can't ever seem to get "Ya Got Trouble" right anymore. I keep lapsing into "with a capital T and that rhymes with D and that stands for 'dull.' "

Side note, Robert Preston is proof that you don't have to have a fantastic singing voice to be a legend in musical theater. So even if puberty completely ruins your voice - and it probably won't - you should be able to keep this up if it's a passion.

[Icewraith]

Is there a part of the word "most" you cannot comprehend?

(Useless pedantry is a pet peeve of mine).


(snip- edits in Bold)
OP: Most men shift about an octave down. So if you're a soprano now you might be a tenor. If you're like me and a "How the hell is he hitting that note?" high as a kid you might be a countertenor - there was a time when I could hit c6 and hold it.

Failure to carry the uncertainty into the remaining sentences directly undermined the point of my post. Before puberty I was singing songs (written for children) up an octave (without tonal complaints) because I could, now I sing most songs (written for adult voices) down an octave because I can't.

This is less of a pedant thing and more of a holdover from my time as a tutor. When talking to minors (people in general, really, but especially minors) about their future, if you don't include uncertainty in your if-then statements you may be providing them with a false source of belief in a predicted future. Not only could you end up being totally wrong, their belief in your words may cause them to not take productive actions that would help them acheive the "then" you told them about.

Since you sound like you do know quite a lot about singing, it's more likely the OP will place more weight on your words. However, if the OP turns out like I did, you're probably correct regarding what can happen and what usually happens but dead wrong in the specific case. Therefore the use of the contraction for "you will" is not appropriate and potentially misleads the OP.

It may be pedantry, but it's not (I hope) USELESS pedantry. If you lead off with a statement of uncertainty and follow up with an if-then, in many cases (especially when delivering good news) the if-then will be retained but not the uncertainty. You want people to remember what you meant, not what you said. However, they'll usually remember some part of what you said, but not necessarily what you meant.

If there are any remaining stupid grammar or logic mistakes in this post, I've reviewed it enough that I'm now brain-blind to them. If I'm going to be a pedant, at least let me not be hypocrite or a fool at the same time.

[Alias]

Failure to carry the uncertainty into the remaining sentences directly undermined the point of my post.

And I should care why?

I program. This means I put up with a machine's pedantic behavior for my entire working day. I expect more from human beings like you than the absolute total stupidity of a machine. Now go look up 'pedantry' in the dictionary and stop behaving that childish way.

[Lethologica]

Alias, if I had a penny for every time I mistook someone's meaning, or had my meaning mistaken, due to small details of phrasing, I'd own a mansion and a yacht by now. I think it would be more...mature of you to respond to such situations without expressing naked contempt for the other person. Think about it.

[Jaycemonde]

Guys with "effeminate" voices are a gift to humanity. Just promise us you'll use your powers for good and not a boy band.

Edit: I'd also like to point out from experience that externally introduced hormones can change the **** out of your voice if coupled with coaching sessions, but that's not really something a lot of people want to get into.

Edit again: Holy crap, I didn't realize we had one of those engineers in here. We should all make sure not to accidentally trigger a flashback of a kernel panic or something.

[Scarlet Knight]

I don't sing publically so I'll throw this out to the performers in the playground:

To create an old man voice, can Pavbat666 just add quivers/ tremors at the right spots?