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Laurgelon
2016-06-12, 11:07 PM
I have recently picked up the way of the wicked AP for pathfinder. I have a couple of questions about the first book, however. Firstly, what is up with timeon? It is said that he could be recruited, and then ignores him. I think I have a player who will like him, and possibly want him as a squire. Has there been any other tables who have experience with him? Second, the vampiric mist. Someone speaks Aklo. How should it be dealt with? Third, the slaves. The Antipaladin will want to keep one. Is this allowed? Lastly, what happens if the crew of the frost hammer are given to the bugbears?

bulbaquil
2016-06-13, 09:12 AM
Way of the Wicked spoilers, obviously:

It certainly seems reasonable, but difficult, that he could be "broken" to the party's side. The trick would be convincing Tiadora and/or Cardinal Thorn. This would almost certainly require loyalty oaths, infernal contracts, or the like. That said, he is mechanically a level 1 aristocrat, so I would assume you treat him rather as a hireling.

The module actually takes this situation into account on page 31.

They're technically either Tiadora's or Cardinal Thorn's slaves, so some sort of deal would have to be worked out with them. And then, of course, there's the minor issue of slavery being very illegal in LG Mitran Talingarde...

Sakkarot intervenes. The problem is that, while you are expected to betray the Frosthamar's crew, you still need to get a little further from the point of meeting him. Handing the crew over to the bugbears would mean you'd either have to reach your next destination on foot at a level where overland travel is not yet trivial, somehow sail the boat yourselves, or somehow get the bugbears to do it.

Laurgelon
2016-06-15, 07:02 PM
Thanks for the advice. What would you recommend advancing timeon into. What I meant about the mist, is I was wondering if it would just leave after first use, or if it would stay for a while. Also, do you think a charm person type thing would make the slaves deny their slavery? Thanks again!

ZeroSpace9000
2016-06-16, 12:21 AM
Charm Person wouldn't have a meaningful impact. The slaves are stated to be continually under Dominate Person effects, presumably cast by Thorn or Tiadora. You would need to overpower said domination via opposed CL checks, and at this early state in the game it's not happening. There's also the more fluff fact that it's also stated the slaves have been dominated for so long that they have little to nothing of their own self anymore. They've been literally broken in by now, and they're only good for basic tasks. Charm Person will only make you their friend; there's simply not enough left to care about that point.

As for Timeon, I haven't taken a close enough to get any kind of feel, but he was something of a squire for a paladin. Antipaladin would be obvious, but you've already got one of those.

bulbaquil
2016-06-16, 08:47 AM
For a broken Timeon, the Weapon Bearer Squire fighter archetype seems thematically appropriate, as would certain cavalier orders.

Laurgelon
2016-06-16, 08:39 PM
Thanks for the advice! I will look for the archetype you mentioned. Do you think some kind of charisma check would work for convincing thorn to let them keep one of the slaves?

Trekkin
2016-06-18, 06:19 PM
Thanks for the advice! I will look for the archetype you mentioned. Do you think some kind of charisma check would work for convincing thorn to let them keep one of the slaves?

It depends on how you want to play Thorn, in my opinion.

Thorn is supposed to transition from the genius masterminding the plan to take down Talingarde to a paranoid lunatic hiding in his snow fort while his dreams collapse around his ears. I would argue that Genius Thorn would probably let the PCs take pretty much anything and anyone they wanted from the mansion. It existed solely to train the Knots; with its purpose done, he has more important things to care about than what happens to the minions maintaining it. Letting them keep one shows off how little he cares about people, reminds them how rich and powerful he is, and gives them one more thing to be grateful for. Provided the PC is relatively respectful about asking, I'd let them have one regardless of the check result. (Of course, if they're being boorish about it, perhaps remind them who is magically contracted to work for whom.)

Maybe Lunatic Thorn would be less inclined to weaken himself even by this tiny fraction, but maybe not -- it's one more way to observe the party, after all. I'd still let them have one, but hint from time to time that they've been enchanted six ways from Sunday to act as a spy.

Laurgelon
2016-06-20, 09:22 AM
Thanks! How would you deal with the corruption of timeon? We have just started, and are rapidly approaching the nine lessons.

Mystral
2016-06-20, 09:51 AM
I have recently picked up the way of the wicked AP for pathfinder. I have a couple of questions about the first book, however. Firstly, what is up with timeon? It is said that he could be recruited, and then ignores him. I think I have a player who will like him, and possibly want him as a squire. Has there been any other tables who have experience with him?
In our group, the rolls to turn him were not made, and he was sacrificed to seal the pact. With good enough rolls in diplomacy, he can be turned, but it's not guaranteed.


In our game Second, the vampiric mist. Someone speaks Aklo. How should it be dealt with?

The vampiric mist is very afraid of the cardinal. He wouldn't abandon his objective unless he thinks that his opponents are more than it can handle. Some bluff/intimidate checks might help, but remember, it comes out of the floor swinging, so any diplomacy would be difficult.


Third, the slaves. The Antipaladin will want to keep one. Is this allowed?

The slaves are dominated by the cardinal and meant to die after their job is fullfilled, to keep secrecy. If the antipaladin would want to keep one, he should need to diplomacy it up to show the need and his ability to keep the slave in check. It should cost him, and it should cost him even more if the slave escapes and talks.


Lastly, what happens if the crew of the frost hammer are given to the bugbears? They are propably eaten.

Laurgelon
2016-06-20, 09:07 PM
Thanks Mystral! As the game goes on, we rapidly approach balentyne. The anti-pally has converted timeon to Asmodeus. Now, what help would you say he would give with Balentyne? I know the info he has, but what about people interacting with him? Also, I am experiencing some confusion with the VP system. First of all, I have read the later books and see that Sakkarot is a major character later. What happens if the get 20 or less? Seems like it would kind of brake the AP. Next, it seems strange that you don't get flawless victory for killing everyone in the fortress. Do you know of any fixes for this?

Trekkin
2016-06-20, 10:20 PM
Thanks Mystral! As the game goes on, we rapidly approach balentyne. The anti-pally has converted timeon to Asmodeus. Now, what help would you say he would give with Balentyne? I know the info he has, but what about people interacting with him? Also, I am experiencing some confusion with the VP system. First of all, I have read the later books and see that Sakkarot is a major character later. What happens if the get 20 or less? Seems like it would kind of brake the AP. Next, it seems strange that you don't get flawless victory for killing everyone in the fortress. Do you know of any fixes for this?

I think the expectation is that either Thorn raises Sakkarot (or brings in a relative of his or some similar handwave) or you just end the AP there with Thorn's plan failed.

As for killing everyone in the fortress not being a flawless victory: firstly, it probably shouldn't come up. It's assumed that there are more people in Balentyne than the PCs have the time, resources, or energy to kill -- and even if they emptied it of life entirely, there is still a flux of soldiers in from the patrols and the town and just generally that could easily provide enough people to do some injury to the horde. Secondly, you'd probably have to empty Aldencross too, given the crosstalk between the fort and the town. If your party can single-handedly kill 1300+ people in a month and a half without any word getting out to the rest of Talingarde, I'm not sure the adventure that follows will significantly challenge them.

ZeroSpace9000
2016-06-20, 10:21 PM
Regarding the fort clear scenario; if that happens, just roll with it. When I ran it with my group, the players had killed all of the leadership people, like the 4 captains and the church father. Then the face-y antipaladin impersonated the fort captain, Havelyn, and took steps to quash any threats before they became a problem. Even though by strict VP they only managed a hard-fought victory at about 33VP, the strategic advantage they had was too much to overlook. They had become the sole power there; the VP was a formality.

And to be clear, this still put them to the test, as the antipally (who is black-blooded) took on the cleric solo, and the two captains they fought legitimately brought them within an inch of their lives. If your players succeed in clearing the place out, simply give them the win.

Laurgelon
2016-06-21, 07:39 PM
Thanks for all the help. I don't really expect that they will kill everyone, it just felt a little weird. Thus far, they have managed to replace ye Merrie Men and sabotage all the defences. Now, however, things are going a little too smoothly for them, and I need to find a way to throw a wrench in their plans. Dominik Valikson is dead and replaced, so he can't call for backup like the 7th book suggests. What can I do?

bulbaquil
2016-06-23, 03:49 PM
Thanks for all the help. I don't really expect that they will kill everyone, it just felt a little weird. Thus far, they have managed to replace ye Merrie Men and sabotage all the defences. Now, however, things are going a little too smoothly for them, and I need to find a way to throw a wrench in their plans. Dominik Valikson is dead and replaced, so he can't call for backup like the 7th book suggests. What can I do?

Random patrol by Barhold's men or something like that. That's not the part of the castle where the bards should be :P