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View Full Version : First real campaign tonight.



Slay33
2016-06-13, 10:18 AM
New DM here. Tonight is my first real campaign. I have run other one-shot scenarios in the past, but they have been lackluster due to me not planning ahead.

Its different this time though. I planned ahead. I wrote plotlines, NPCs, loot that will be found, everything. I like to think i'm ready, but I still don't know. Some info:

The party i'm running for is a party of 7. Yes, 7. Here are the characters:

Vaihn: Human Rogue

Mediev: Human Wizard

Sorraka: Human Cleric

Severit: Half-Elf Ranger

Leoric: Human Barbarian

Crawlmaul: Gnome Fighter

Noldor: Human bard

These are the characters i'm running for. I really don't know too much about the characters, besides their race and class.

The plot:

I plan to run multiple campaigns that will tie together story wise. So each campaign will tell a chapter of the story. This chapter in particular will take around 3 sessions of gameplay. The chapter is basically the party finding a town that has been taken over by a local dwarf lord who calls himself a king. Once the party overthrows this dwarf lord, they will also fight and kill a drow emissary, which will advance the plot to the next chapter.

The dwarf lord I plan to make the boss for the end of this chapter.

Any tips for how I should run this tonight?

Red Fel
2016-06-13, 10:23 AM
Any tips for how I should run this tonight?

Simple question, and in my mind if you can answer it, you're set.

What happens if they don't kill the Dwarf Lord (or Drow Emissary)?

I don't mean if they die fighting. What happens if they join him? Or find some non-combat method of removing him? What happens if they utterly fail to give a crap about him?

Do you have a plan for that? If you do, you're set. If you don't, prepare one.

The PCs don't always do what we'd expect. A good DM makes the plot work despite this. A great DM makes the plot work because of this.

Geddy2112
2016-06-13, 10:33 AM
Simple question, and in my mind if you can answer it, you're set.

What happens if they don't kill the Dwarf Lord (or Drow Emissary)?

I don't mean if they die fighting. What happens if they join him? Or find some non-combat method of removing him? What happens if they utterly fail to give a crap about him?

Do you have a plan for that? If you do, you're set. If you don't, prepare one.

The PCs don't always do what we'd expect. A good DM makes the plot work despite this. A great DM makes the plot work because of this.

To add to this great advice, do you have a plan for managing seven people? The logistics of running a seven player combat, table talk, etc. Be ready to herd cats at almost every instance and keep the players playing and on whatever direction they go.

Slay33
2016-06-13, 10:38 AM
Simple question, and in my mind if you can answer it, you're set.

What happens if they don't kill the Dwarf Lord (or Drow Emissary)?

I don't mean if they die fighting. What happens if they join him? Or find some non-combat method of removing him? What happens if they utterly fail to give a crap about him?

Do you have a plan for that? If you do, you're set. If you don't, prepare one.

The PCs don't always do what we'd expect. A good DM makes the plot work despite this. A great DM makes the plot work because of this.

I will try to answer both of your questions the best I can.

Yes, I have a plan if they dont kill him or the drow emissary. But it seems unlikely.

The dwarf and the drow are both hired by the same contractor to keep the town under control. They are being paid really good money for this, but then again, money can't buy loyalty. I guess they could spare them, but either way, the goal is to get information about the contractor from one of them, mainly the drow emissary.

Really whether or not they kill the dwarf is up to them. Him living or dieing will not really matter when the campaign is over. The drow however, will matter. The drow has alot of information that will come off as useful in the next chapter.

As for the combat statistics, I have those taken care of. I also have some tricks up my sleeve for dealing with huge parties like this.

Slay33
2016-06-13, 10:42 AM
Also for the whole "What if the PCs dont care about the plotline I lay before them?" Thing, I have a plan for that aswell:

The dwarf lord and his followers aren't just going to sit up in their mountain saying "Oh, look how awesome we are". They have a presence in the land. If the players just decide to move on and keep adventuring, They will encounter the dwarf lord's followers. One way or another they are going to have to deal with the Mountain king, whether its with the town's help or not.

Koo Rehtorb
2016-06-13, 10:44 AM
PCs will do things you don't expect. Don't plan things too far ahead. And don't be afraid to look at the group and say "Wow I didn't expect this. Let's take a ten minute break while I figure out what to do with this."

Honest Tiefling
2016-06-13, 11:03 AM
PCs will do things you don't expect. Don't plan things too far ahead. And don't be afraid to look at the group and say "Wow I didn't expect this. Let's take a ten minute break while I figure out what to do with this."

This is why your idea to prepare what the Dwarf does anyway is a good idea. Often it is better to approach a plot from that direction, because you'll have a better idea of what will happen if the players do X instead of Y because you focus on resources, planning and the motives of the enemy.

And don't stress if a chapter takes more then a session. People might want to mingle IC or OOC, explore things, or need time to plan.

Always remember! It's perfectly fine to call a ten minute break to reorient yourself when the unexpected happens. If you have the game around a designated food time, perhaps arrange for the meal or a food run to occur while you are doing this. If this fails, see if the players want to interact with each other, because then they will discuss their plans and what they assume is happening.

Red Fel
2016-06-13, 12:21 PM
I will try to answer both of your questions the best I can.

Yes, I have a plan if they dont kill him or the drow emissary. But it seems unlikely.

The dwarf and the drow are both hired by the same contractor to keep the town under control. They are being paid really good money for this, but then again, money can't buy loyalty. I guess they could spare them, but either way, the goal is to get information about the contractor from one of them, mainly the drow emissary.

Follow-up: What if they kill either or both before they get any information? Do you have a backup way for them to learn what you need them to know?


Really whether or not they kill the dwarf is up to them. Him living or dieing will not really matter when the campaign is over. The drow however, will matter. The drow has alot of information that will come off as useful in the next chapter.

Another follow-up: Again, what if they kill the Drow? Do you plan to give him plot armor? (Please don't.) Do you have an alternative means for what he knows to become available to the PCs? (Please do.)


Also for the whole "What if the PCs dont care about the plotline I lay before them?" Thing, I have a plan for that aswell:

The dwarf lord and his followers aren't just going to sit up in their mountain saying "Oh, look how awesome we are". They have a presence in the land. If the players just decide to move on and keep adventuring, They will encounter the dwarf lord's followers. One way or another they are going to have to deal with the Mountain king, whether its with the town's help or not.

Why? What if they leave the area? What if they're totally cooperative with the Dwarf Lord's forces?

Or, to put it another way: Why should the Dwarf Lord's forces have any problems with the PCs? Is the Dwarf Lord going to inexplicably send his men after the PCs until the PCs decide to end the conflict? Are the Dwarf Lord's forces going to mess around with the PCs even if the PCs completely cooperate with and obey the soldiers who appear or claim to be the law of the land?

Slay33
2016-06-13, 01:02 PM
Follow-up: What if they kill either or both before they get any information? Do you have a backup way for them to learn what you need them to know?
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I do. There will be plenty of letters/documents/henchmen lieing around for the PCs to read and to learn.
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Another follow-up: Again, what if they kill the Drow? Do you plan to give him plot armor? (Please don't.) Do you have an alternative means for what he knows to become available to the PCs? (Please do.)
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I don't know what you mean by plot armor. Please elaborate.
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Why? What if they leave the area? What if they're totally cooperative with the Dwarf Lord's forces?

Or, to put it another way: Why should the Dwarf Lord's forces have any problems with the PCs? Is the Dwarf Lord going to inexplicably send his men after the PCs until the PCs decide to end the conflict? Are the Dwarf Lord's forces going to mess around with the PCs even if the PCs completely cooperate with and obey the soldiers who appear or claim to be the law of the land?

The Dwarf's forces have taken over the area, and demand loyalty from anyone who lives in it or crosses through it. Loyalty to them is paid in tax. Tax must be paid. Therefore, the party must pay the unfair tax, or be prosecuted by the forces.

But lets say they do pay the tax (Which makes no sense, because it would end up in the party giving over all magic items and 90% of their gold), They will have to work as slaves to expand the lord's dominion over the area.

So if they want to play a Slave simulator game, then thats what it will end up being.

Slay33
2016-06-13, 01:03 PM
Note: I added by responses to each of your questions by surronding by answers with ---

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Example
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Geddy2112
2016-06-13, 01:25 PM
It seems like you did your homework. In my experience as a DM, I have always found that the players will come up with the one zany scenario I did not see coming, regardless of how many "what if's" I plan out.

It also seems like you have the best contingency, which is to roll with it. I think you will be fine.

Also, plot armor is when a character or thing cannot be killed or destroyed in game regardless of what players do because it is deemed too important to the plot by the DM. Normally this comes in the form of attacks auto failing, saves auto passing, and the like. It can also be subtler, like having a random NPC be way more powerful than they look-A humble shopkeep is a high level caster, or that beggar on the street is a level 20 monk. It is not when the people in power are obviously more powerful and in charge for a reason, I.E.the dwarf lord being an experienced fighter and described as such. It is plot armor if the dwarf lord is actually an ungodly powerful lich dragon or something like that with the sole intent of making the players unable to kill it.

Plot armor can also protect player characters when their actions which should kill them are negated in the nick of time by some cosmic force, crazy turn of luck, hero NPC, or the monster/threat just stops killing them. Plot armor is generally a bad thing because it is synonymous with obvious railroading, which robs players of agency, which generally defeats the point of a TTRPG.

Slay33
2016-06-13, 01:29 PM
It seems like you did your homework. In my experience as a DM, I have always found that the players will come up with the one zany scenario I did not see coming, regardless of how many "what if's" I plan out.

It also seems like you have the best contingency, which is to roll with it. I think you will be fine.

Also, plot armor is when a character or thing cannot be killed or destroyed in game regardless of what players do because it is deemed too important to the plot by the DM. Normally this comes in the form of attacks auto failing, saves auto passing, and the like. It can also be subtler, like having a random NPC be way more powerful than they look-A humble shopkeep is a high level caster, or that beggar on the street is a level 20 monk. It is not when the people in power are obviously more powerful and in charge for a reason, I.E.the dwarf lord being an experienced fighter and described as such. It is plot armor if the dwarf lord is actually an ungodly powerful lich dragon or something like that with the sole intent of making the players unable to kill it.

Thanks for the advice. Its greatly appreciated.

I still have some questions left though. How do I keep the gaming going smoothly? I have 5 players (2 of them control an additional character). Which, for my first campaign, is alot. I want it to keep moving without needing to, as someone previously mentioned, herd cats.

Geddy2112
2016-06-13, 01:45 PM
Thanks for the advice. Its greatly appreciated.

I still have some questions left though. How do I keep the gaming going smoothly? I have 5 players (2 of them control an additional character). Which, for my first campaign, is alot. I want it to keep moving without needing to, as someone previously mentioned, herd cats.

No problem! Is there some reason you have 2 players playing multiple characters? If that is not required, why not have them each just play one? Since you only have 5 actual players, that is a good number and should be pretty easy.

Some of my management tips and tricks:
-If players get lost, throw them a bone-sometimes players will look for a plot hook and be missing them all. The three clue rule helps, or an action of the world to find them/engage them.
-Combat early on, even if it is just a random encounter, satisfies the bloodlust of your more hack and slash players and gets the party engaged in the game. Likewise, don't start a major combat 30 minutes before end of session, as it will run late. Leave it as a cliffhanger, and then next session you start with a combat! Repeat.
-Don't go into too much depth on the small stuff. Give details to the important stuff, but don't waste time describing the 50 craft beers the pub has on tap. Or roleplay buying basic gear, walking across the street, or any other super mundane nonsense. This prevents players from being bored and wasting game time.
-Don't allow phones or gadgets unless they are using it for the game. Being able to text you a message is just the new version of passing the DM a note. Looking up how a spell works or having their character sheet on an ipad is fine. Playing candy crush is not.
-Take breaks for bathroom/drinks/snacks/whatever
-Six second rule in combat. When a player is up on initiative order, they have six seconds to start describing their actions, or they pass. Most systems have a total defense or dodge or similar action that gives them a defense boon, this is what they do if they don't act. It reflects the wizard thinking about what spell to cast, or the archer waiting for a better shot and also protecting their character. Works for any players getting a drink or in the bathroom as well.
-2 minutes to argue a ruling unless a character's life is on the line. After 2 minutes of your ruling, challenge(right or wrong), and then ruling or whatever, carry on. If you have a rules savvy player you can trust to be objective, have them handle this. If a character could die based on the ruling then you can pull out the books and apply the word for word.

Most importantly
-If whatever you are doing is engaging the party and everyone is having fun, then screw all the other rules and roll with it.

Slay33
2016-06-13, 01:53 PM
No problem! Is there some reason you have 2 players playing multiple characters? If that is not required, why not have them each just play one? Since you only have 5 actual players, that is a good number and should be pretty easy.

Some of my management tips and tricks:
-If players get lost, throw them a bone-sometimes players will look for a plot hook and be missing them all. The three clue rule helps, or an action of the world to find them/engage them.
-Combat early on, even if it is just a random encounter, satisfies the bloodlust of your more hack and slash players and gets the party engaged in the game. Likewise, don't start a major combat 30 minutes before end of session, as it will run late. Leave it as a cliffhanger, and then next session you start with a combat! Repeat.
-Don't go into too much depth on the small stuff. Give details to the important stuff, but don't waste time describing the 50 craft beers the pub has on tap. Or roleplay buying basic gear, walking across the street, or any other super mundane nonsense. This prevents players from being bored and wasting game time.
-Don't allow phones or gadgets unless they are using it for the game. Being able to text you a message is just the new version of passing the DM a note. Looking up how a spell works or having their character sheet on an ipad is fine. Playing candy crush is not.
-Take breaks for bathroom/drinks/snacks/whatever
-Six second rule in combat. When a player is up on initiative order, they have six seconds to start describing their actions, or they pass. Most systems have a total defense or dodge or similar action that gives them a defense boon, this is what they do if they don't act. It reflects the wizard thinking about what spell to cast, or the archer waiting for a better shot and also protecting their character. Works for any players getting a drink or in the bathroom as well.
-2 minutes to argue a ruling unless a character's life is on the line. After 2 minutes of your ruling, challenge(right or wrong), and then ruling or whatever, carry on. If you have a rules savvy player you can trust to be objective, have them handle this. If a character could die based on the ruling then you can pull out the books and apply the word for word.

Most importantly
-If whatever you are doing is engaging the party and everyone is having fun, then screw all the other rules and roll with it.

The players playing additional characters are doing so because they want to. The the bard and cleric are being played by one person. Along with the gnome and the wizard, which are also both being played by a single player. The other characters are played by single players.

Also, those tips are very helpful. But I would appreciate if you would elaborate on this one in particular:


Six second rule in combat. When a player is up on initiative order, they have six seconds to start describing their actions, or they pass. Most systems have a total defense or dodge or similar action that gives them a defense boon, this is what they do if they don't act. It reflects the wizard thinking about what spell to cast, or the archer waiting for a better shot and also protecting their character. Works for any players getting a drink or in the bathroom as well.

The six second rule. Any tips for getting the players used to this system? I don't want to just start their first combat and go "YOU GOT SIX SECONDS, GO!". I want to keep combat fluid and moving as if it were real, yes, but I still want players to enjoy it and describe their actions fluidly and have fun doing so.

Koo Rehtorb
2016-06-13, 02:01 PM
The six second rule. Any tips for getting the players used to this system? I don't want to just start their first combat and go "YOU GOT SIX SECONDS, GO!". I want to keep combat fluid and moving as if it were real, yes, but I still want players to enjoy it and describe their actions fluidly and have fun doing so.

Play a different game, honestly. Dungeon World is designed to evoke the feel of D&D, while being easy to learn for new players, and is also designed to give combat a fluid descriptive feel.

Geddy2112
2016-06-13, 02:05 PM
The players playing additional characters are doing so because they want to. The the bard and cleric are being played by one person. Along with the gnome and the wizard, which are also both being played by a single player. The other characters are played by single players.

Also, those tips are very helpful. But I would appreciate if you would elaborate on this one in particular:

The six second rule. Any tips for getting the players used to this system? I don't want to just start their first combat and go "YOU GOT SIX SECONDS, GO!". I want to keep combat fluid and moving as if it were real, yes, but I still want players to enjoy it and describe their actions fluidly and have fun doing so.

Personally I would not allow a player to play two characters unless the party was low on people, but this is not the case in your group. 7 party members are hard to balance against and unless the players are incredibly good, managing two characters is incredibly hard work.

Explain to them before the game starts that in a combat situation, players need to make a decision within six seconds or you will pass them. This encourages them to pay attention and always be thinking of their next move. Also let them know they will be considered to go on the defensive and use the relevant defense action for the system. However, they don't have six seconds to finish, just to start their action. If the wizard's turn rolls around and they sit there thumbing through their spells for 6 seconds, that is their turn. However, if the wizard says "I cast fireball" then they can take the needed time to indicate space, tell you the DC, allow you to roll saves for enemies hit, allow the player to roll the damage, you remove any charred crispy critters, and continue the combat. Obviously that won't take six seconds, but that is okay.

Even if they are really into roleplaying their actions, they just need to start them when it is their turn. Saying "uhh.....well...I uh...hold on, did I prepare magic missile today? How does that spell work again" is not okay. But if your players want to say "Vjal looks at the horde of goblins pouring out of the cave, his eyes glow as red as his beard as he waves his hands and shouts in draconic. A tiny ball of fire appears at his fingertip and shoots into the rabble, making contact and exploding in a gout of white hot flame" that is a-ok!

It does not even have to be six seconds. It can be ten, or 15, or some other number that prevents the player from stopping combat for 2 or 3 minutes while they debate what to do, or look up the rules to some obscure mechanic. it also makes them pay attention. They can think and look up things on other player's turns.

Demidos
2016-06-13, 02:18 PM
I would suggest keeping everyone to one player, one pc, although it depends on your group, mainly for the reason that...




1. The players with two PCs will by default be more useful than the others, unless there is a huge gap in system knowledge. This means that players with only one PC may become jealous of the screen time and wider range of useful abilities.

1a. Directly related, FIND OUT HOW EXPERIENCED EACH PLAYER IS IN USING THE SYSTEM. Given that one character is playing both the bard and the cleric, either of which is notably more powerful than a fighter in the hands of experienced players, it is good to know how they will be used and at what optimization level they will be at. A cleric who only heals and a bard that only sings to inspire competence will handle very differently from highly optimized versions of the same.

1b. The players with two PCs are going to be taking up (probably) twice as much time for each turn as the other players, which makes the other players feel less relevant to the story and may take away from excitement.

1c. The players with two PCs are effectively going to have leadership (minus the followers but with an equal level cohort), a feat which is widely considered to be unbalancing and extremely powerful. Proceed with care.



More generally...

It sounds like you might already be roughly doing this, but as one of my own very good DMs told me, the secret to an immersive world is to plan out the actions and consequences of 12-15 individuals in your world over the course of the campaign. They will be the movers and shakers of your campaign world. Now, the story line of each one of them is planned out, but only insofar as NO ONE INTERFERES. This could come either from one of the PCs or one of the other mover/shakers. This allows their plans to develop organically and still have massive flexibility to account for PC actions.