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kpenguin
2007-06-28, 10:03 PM
So, in the name of the great catgirl culling, how would you go about making some well-known supernatural abilities into extraordary abilities. To elaborate further: how could scientifically duplicate the supernatural abilities of, let's say, a dragon so that they would work at least a pseudo-scientific world?

Solo
2007-06-28, 10:05 PM
Isn't there a feat for that? Supernatural Transformation or something?

kpenguin
2007-06-28, 10:13 PM
Isn't there a feat for that? Supernatural Transformation or something?

Yeah, but making up pseudo-scientific explanations is more fun.

Anyway, let's start with dragon breath, something most D&D players are familiar with. The question is: what are the dragons spewing and how are they spewing it?

The types of breath:
Cone of fire
Line of fire
Line of acid
Cone of corrosive gas
Line of electricity
Cone of cold
Cone of sleep
Cone of repulsion gas
Cone of slow gas
Cone of weakening gas
Cone of paralyzing gas

Solo
2007-06-28, 10:20 PM
Fire: something like a flamethrower
Acid: acid.
Corrosive Gas: corrosive gas
Electricity: Tricky. Like cross between an electric eel and a tesla coil, maybe?
Cold: Tricky. Liquid nitrogen?
Shape: controlled by some sort of nozzle.

Krimm_Blackleaf
2007-06-28, 10:42 PM
Here are a few ideas.

Cone of sleep: Naturally produced knock-out gas.
Cone of Weakening Gas: Possibly something that attacks the nervous system.
Cone of Slow Gas: Probably the same.

Seffbasilisk
2007-06-28, 10:43 PM
The types of breath:

Cone of fire: Have you seen Reign of Fire? Two chemicals mixing to make a naturally superflammable napalm like aerable substance.
Line of fire: Same as cone of fire, only different shape of skull/mouth/chemical glands.
Line of acid: Well, our bodies already have some weak bases and acids in them, so just expand upon that.
Cone of corrosive gas: Exhaling oxygen? What?
Line of electricity: Here's a tricky one....something to change the composition of the air in that area to make it easier for electrons to line up? Or to dissolve bonds?
Cone of cold: ......ummm....Drawing a blank here.
Cone of sleep: Easy, natural compounds to induce unconsciousness in an aerable form, fast acting is better.
Cone of repulsion gas: See cone of sleep, only see nausea.
Cone of slow gas: Muscle relaxant?
Cone of weakening gas: Muscle relaxant mixed with inhibitor?
Cone of paralyzing gas: Paralytic inhaled compound...

thehothead
2007-06-28, 10:44 PM
I saw this complicated thing about dragons producing methane in their stomache, which also allowed them to be light enough to fly, and having venom things that had evolved to produce the equivlent of greek fire. So pretty much, fire breathing was just flaming burps.

SilverClawShift
2007-06-28, 10:56 PM
Fire Breathing

Dragons have a particularily highly evolved gill/secondary lung structure in addition to their normal pulmonary system. This secondary gill/lung system filters all gasses out of the air it intakes, leaving pure oxygen (stored in a bladder/lung system near their regular lungs).

Now they need a pilot light of some kind at the top of their throat. Start with electric eels and go from there. Also needs a flammable substance of some kind. Maybe they eat coal which is ground into a fine powder and exhaled in a spary with the pure oxygen.

They also obviously need to have faces and mouths that are resistant to heat, obviously.

Everyman
2007-06-28, 11:23 PM
They also obviously need to have faces and mouths that are resistant to heat, obviously.

Man, that would be a cruel joke for Ol' Mother Nature to play...

"Have at you, human!"
*Breathes flame*
"Ow! Ow! Ow! By all that is holy and unholy, OW!"
...
"My sinuses are clear though."

For the purposes of a bolt of lightning, perhaps it would be easiest to function if the dragon was spewing a fine mist filled with some sort of conductor, while sending a charge through the mist.

Diggorian
2007-06-28, 11:30 PM
Interesting topic.

You'd think in a super-scientific setting that all of a dragon's (Su) and (Sp) would automatically default into (Ex), even if the method isnt known. How do they do that? I dont know, but it's extraordinary. :smallamused:

For the Cone of cold, it would be fascinating if the dragon actually could inhale infrared energy to produce cold, then next round exhale the focused heat as a line of fire.

A lot of the others could be explained as a spray of "venom" with the various effects based on species. Sorta like a sneeze, so the range would be lowered for realism.

Breaking with tradition, we could have noxious gases coming out of the other end in a radius spread.

kpenguin
2007-06-28, 11:32 PM
I'm not sure how repulsive gas would work, though. Remember, the gas causes all effected to run away from the dragon.

Diggorian
2007-06-28, 11:37 PM
I'm not sure how repulsive gas would work, though. Remember, the gas causes all effected to run away from the dragon.

Fear pheromone?

kpenguin
2007-06-28, 11:40 PM
Fear pheromone?

That only effects targets within a cone? I would believe it if it were a radius, but a cone?

Another tricky thing: how would you build a metallic dragon's body so that it could accomadate two breath weapons.

Roland St. Jude
2007-06-28, 11:42 PM
I saw this complicated thing about dragons producing methane in their stomache, which also allowed them to be light enough to fly, and having venom things that had evolved to produce the equivlent of greek fire. So pretty much, fire breathing was just flaming burps.

The Last Dragon (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0433367/) narrated by Patrick Stewart. It was sort of a faux documentary on the discovery of ancient dragon remains and the scientific discovery of dragon flight, breath, etc. that followed. It was well done, but oddly presented.

But it did exactly what you're talking about for classic firebreathing, flying, western mythological dragons.

kpenguin
2007-06-28, 11:48 PM
Patrick Stewart as the narrator? That must have been interesting.

How about their spell-like abilities? How would they work?

brian c
2007-06-29, 12:25 AM
Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Dragon_%28docudrama%29) is the wikipedia article for The Last Dragon, which presents the argument in some detail.

I always assumed Repulsive Gas was just... gas...

Callix
2007-06-29, 12:31 AM
For cold: This takes two breaths, but one can be passive.
Passive: Chemical 1 continually exhaled
Active: cone of Chemical 2 from secondary lungs. Two chemicals have massivelyt endothemic reaction, leaving air very, very cold. Pick up fistfull of d6s.

PsyBlade
2007-06-29, 12:32 AM
People, perch your lips, then blow on your hand. Notice that the air is cold? Now imagine you have sufficiently advanced muscle system, and lungs. You compress a large amount of air into said lungs. Blow like you're cooling off soup. Voila, cone of cold.

ClericofPhwarrr
2007-06-29, 12:36 AM
For cold: This takes two breaths, but one can be passive.
Passive: Chemical 1 continually exhaled
Active: cone of Chemical 2 from secondary lungs. Two chemicals have massivelyt endothemic reaction, leaving air very, very cold. Pick up fistfull of d6s.

Just about to post that idea when I saw it at the end. Darn. To make it easier, just have a chemical that reacts with the air very quickly in an endothermic reaction.

Or that evaporates really quickly :smallwink:.

asqwasqw
2007-06-29, 12:56 AM
That only effects targets within a cone? I would believe it if it were a radius, but a cone?

Another tricky thing: how would you build a metallic dragon's body so that it could accomadate two breath weapons.

I don't see what's so hard about that. Just have more than one pair of tubes, and have muscles expel the liquid when needed.

kpenguin
2007-06-29, 01:12 AM
I don't see what's so hard about that. Just have more than one pair of tubes, and have muscles expel the liquid when needed.

You mean like multiple glands or something similar to that?

Demented
2007-06-29, 02:56 AM
I've always been something of a pseudo-logical heretic, but I don't see anything wrong with a scientific universe where dragons just breathe fire because it's magic. After all, if you put a scientist into a world with magic, he'd still be a scientist. Just, one with a very severe headache and a lot of work ahead of him.
_ _ _ _

Now, supposing a fire-breathing dragon, the leading theories are either a liquid or a gas that reacts in some way as to cause the desired effect.

But, how does a dragon breathe fire without causing an explosion in his gut? Or just getting the concussion wave rammed down his throat. (After all, don't you have that feeling of swallowing air?)

Dragons always seem to be immune to their own breath, as well with other dragons of their own kind, right? Explain the mechanism!

asqwasqw
2007-06-29, 03:28 AM
I've always been something of a pseudo-logical heretic, but I don't see anything wrong with a scientific universe where dragons just breathe fire because it's magic. After all, if you put a scientist into a world with magic, he'd still be a scientist. Just, one with a very severe headache and a lot of work ahead of him.
_ _ _ _

Now, supposing a fire-breathing dragon, the leading theories are either a liquid or a gas that reacts in some way as to cause the desired effect.

But, how does a dragon breathe fire without causing an explosion in his gut? Or just getting the concussion wave rammed down his throat. (After all, don't you have that feeling of swallowing air?)

Dragons always seem to be immune to their own breath, as well with other dragons of their own kind, right? Explain the mechanism!

It's the same mechanism as liquid rocket fuel. You don't hold it in its combustable state, you have two different liquids, that when combined, form fire. If you have one gland at the top of the mouth and one gland on the bottom, when the dragon opens its mouth, the twin liquids squirt forward, combining away from the dragon in a V shape causing fire. Bombardier beetles do this, but on a smaller scale.

Citizen Joe
2007-06-29, 08:10 AM
Line of lightning can be like a taser where a thin metallic cord is fired and acts as a conductor for a massive electrical surge. There's also been talk of using a laser to ionize the air allowing it act as a conduit for electricity.

If you want to start killing the catgirls you just need to point out that lightning follows the path of least resistance... so generally, it should just arc right into the ground.

brian c
2007-06-29, 08:44 AM
Here's something to consider: immunities. How can you explain a creature being immune to all fire damage, or immune to all cold, etc?

Citizen Joe
2007-06-29, 08:58 AM
Immunity to heat: Space Shuttle heat tiles
Immunity to cold: Whales, super blubberry insulation.

Inyssius Tor
2007-06-29, 09:16 AM
Mmmm, super blueberries...

How about the Beholder?

The_Werebear
2007-06-29, 09:24 AM
You don't have to have total immunity, just immunity so high that it essentially is immune.

As for how you would get it, I am not sure.

As for things like spells (not Su abilities, but still magic), I was considering for a d20 modern campaign, a mage whose magic was a combination of stage illusion and chemical reactions. Verbal components were to scare enemies/muttering reminders of what chemicals are needed, somatic components were to line up the right chemicals concealed in his sleeves and project them at the enemy. Never got to play it, but it sounded cool.

Citizen Joe
2007-06-29, 09:29 AM
How about the Beholder?

Weather baloon with gaseous DMSO LSD excretions.