Are CE & LG Characters Doomed as Friends?

[Ninjattack]

In the party I'm running a campaign for we somehow managed to get an alignment range that's only about one or two short from being a complete alignment chart.

Somehow the Chaotic Evil and Lawful Good characters get along really well. I didn't get it at first, and it's a match made in hell, but it's actually starting to intrigue me. The two met in the place all clique adventure parties meet, in a bar. The Lawful Good was skeptical of the Chaotic Evil at first because they're sort of a drunk, but they still accepted the CE. Very soon afterwards the CE managed to save the LG's life from a flaming death. Following that the LG saved the CE from a crazed Winter Witch. After that the two became the best of buddies, owing each other their lives. It's probably worth mentioning that the LG has never found out that the CE is a CE.

So, I'm wondering if anyone else has had players like this, or if you think that this is going to end in a disaster. I'm not sure if I should actually be worried about this or not.

[tiercel]

As long as the PCs are more reacting than acting (taking adventure hooks from questgivers, surving the perils of BBEGs and their minions, taking their rightfully won loot), then you are less likely to have strongly alignment-based actions. (Not bereft of them entirely, but if the CE character isn't a brainless murderhobo and the LG character isn't Lawful Stupid, there's no reason they couldn't run dungeon-type quests together for a while without knowing or being too concerned about each other's alignment.)

Sooner or later, however -- especially in a more sandbox-type setting (e.g. stopping over in Town for a week) -- alignment will out, if both players are actually playing a character personality that includes what is written down in the "Alignment" box. The CE character might not mind going along with something "Good" (or even "Lawful") once in a while if it keeps his buddy happy and doesn't feel like a big imposition; the LG character is probably a lot less likely to go along with something "Evil."

Which leaves a number of possibilities:

1) The characters just don't take very many strongly aligned actions, ever. Arguably at some point they start to become LG-in-name-only and CE-in-name-only and drift toward neutrality, insofar as their actions are Neutral-ish.

2) Alignment clash: the characters find the other too wild and savage/stuffy and prissy for each other. The friendship comes to an end (not necessarily with violence, but one may have trouble staying with the party, depending on others' alignments and attitudes).

3) Alignment clash: but the characters' friendship is more important to them. This could result in conversion, a willful drift to Neutral, or just an odd detente ("look, you go and do your thing, just leave me out when it comes to X, I just don't even really want to know").

If you are really concerned about your game, you could try something wacky and just talk with each of your players (out of character) about how, even hypothetically, their character would handle a partty member with a strongly opposing alignment. Get out ahead of it, as it were.

As long as neither player is inclined to go nuclear and disrupt the group's playing experience, you might just have a fun Odd Couple dynamic going on here.

[Psyren]

The greater good is a thing. Look at Belkar and Roy - they're capable of adventuring together and even having moments of levity. Roy justifies it by saying "he is the jail cell" that can keep Belkar pointed at the Really Bad Guys and thereby accomplish the more critical objective.

Basically, competence excuses a lot, and as long as the CE guy isn't Stupid Evil and there's no code of conduct at play, then there's reason to keep him around.

[Geddy2112]

War(adventures, combat against monsters, etc) makes strange bedfellows. All friend groups need an A-hole. Your group is a lot of different alignments, and good on them for showing that not only can all types work together, but maybe it takes all types.

Chaotic evil is probably the least concerned about the morality of any coworkers/friends/people they work with anyways, and if the LG goody two shoes does not know they are evil then they might just see them as brash or misguided or some crap. Both trying to make the other more like them. Eventually it will probably come out in some big reveal moral event horizon debating what to do with the orphaned goblin children kind of scenario. Should be interesting role play, I doubt it will end all that bad, although it could.

[Ninjattack]

I think the LG might end up drifting over to NG. I mean, they have really strong morals, but the CE beat up an old lady with a stuffed dumbie and lied to a child about something important to the LG in order to get a really cool sword that they couldn't actually use. Upon finding out about the sword and lie thing the LG made the CE give it back, and then over heard the old lady crying to the townsguard about someone that sounded like the CE. At this point the LG sort of just face palmed, told everyone else in the party to meet them out of town ASAP, and then smuggle-dragged the CE out of town before they could get arrested.

Then again, the CE could also drift. In the middle of combat the LG feel unconscious and the CE was close enough to be able to try and hit the villian (a recurring character that they hate with a passion). But for whatever reason the CE chose to drag the LG out of harm's way. This is a character with intense rage and the desire to burn everything, giving that up momentarily to save someone who once made them return a really cool sword.

So I mean I guess they might drift into the neutral eventually. It's just sort of hard to imagine that the two, who fit very extremely well into their alignments, would give up part of themselves for their polar opposite.

[Flickerdart]

Chaotic Evil is not the same as Stupid. Lawful Good is not the same as Stupid. In a game driven by party consensus (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waa2ucfgVgQ), both are capable of proposing courses of action, and then abiding by the party decision. Both will chafe against that decision from time to time, but even CE is capable of putting their in-group before their personal desires, as long as the in-group is small enough (like an adventuring party).

[Geddy2112]

I think the LG might end up drifting over to NG. I mean, they have really strong morals, but the CE beat up an old lady with a stuffed dumbie and lied to a child about something important to the LG in order to get a really cool sword that they couldn't actually use. Upon finding out about the sword and lie thing the LG made the CE give it back, and then over heard the old lady crying to the townsguard about someone that sounded like the CE. At this point the LG sort of just face palmed, told everyone else in the party to meet them out of town ASAP, and then smuggle-dragged the CE out of town before they could get arrested.
I am not sure if this makes one NG vs LG. Maybe?


Then again, the CE could also drift. In the middle of combat the LG feel unconscious and the CE was close enough to be able to try and hit the villian (a recurring character that they hate with a passion). But for whatever reason the CE chose to drag the LG out of harm's way. This is a character with intense rage and the desire to burn everything, giving that up momentarily to save someone who once made them return a really cool sword. Keeping an ally alive could be more pragmatism. You don't want other people breaking your toys after all. They are YOUR toys and you need them to get things done. If he did it at expense of self and risked life/limb, that might be going into a good act


It's just sort of hard to imagine that the two, who fit very extremely well into their alignments, would give up part of themselves for their polar opposite.
Love is one hell of a drug. Not saying they are, but love is a precedent for people who are very different to sacrifice for each other.

[PersonMan]

The thing about Evil is that they can do Good things every now and then.

The person who dotes on their three adopted orphans and protects the small village they live in with their life seems Good when they're with those people, but once you learn that they regularly go out and slaughter any tribes / wanderers / etc. who come close to the village and have created peace by torturing and massacring any who might cause trouble it becomes clear that they aren't. Similarly, someone who would give their life to save a good friend, and is always a stalwart companion may seem Good, until you learn that they go out and murder loose ends, bribe, intimidate and burn the homes of those who could present a threat to them or their friends.

[Prime32]

A chaotic evil character can believe that strength is a virtue, and that the strong should rule over the weak. In which case they can like a LG person because they admire their strength and how they stand up for what they believe in.

Likewise, a lawful good character wouldn't necessarily want to hurt someone who's not causing any trouble.

[Honest Tiefling]

I would ask the players. Personally, I think it's really neat your player characters are getting along instead of trying to murder each other. This could be a really neat opportunity for role play.

But before you react, I think you should ask the player's opinion on what will likely go down. Maybe they already have plans to shift alignment. (If I was evil in a good aligned party, I'd consider that). Maybe they have plans for epic PvP, but the other guy doesn't. So I suggest talking to them about it, so you know what they have planned and see if these two plans are compatible.

And I agree, aiding your friends doesn't make you less evil. Many monstrous people throughout history were quite kind to their own family. Such as Genghis Khan, who spread his (or those of his paternal lineage, but...) throughout Europe and Asia through...Yeah. But he treated his mom quite well!

[Kurald Galain]

To any of the thread participants, can you give an example of two characters in published fiction, where one is LG and the other CE, and they are friends?

I mean, they probably exist, but it's a pretty unlikely combination.

[Gnaeus]

Psyren mentioned Belkar and Roy. That's a good pair.

Elric and Zarozina probably. Not CERTAIN she is lawful.

I'm sure you have seen the Batman chart where he is every alignment. So... CE Batman & Gordon, or Alfred. Actually, the CE Batman is a good example of a CE character that can work with good characters. Motivation: To rid Gotham of evil because he wants to avenge his parents and he is more than a little bit insane. Methods include torturing criminals and dangling them from buildings to get information or just to spread fear.

Part of the problem is that most clearly CE characters tend to be caricatures. Not so much 3D characters as psychopaths only designed to be defeated.

[Eldest]

I've played a CE person who ended up marrying her LG paladin girlfriend (another PC). It basically became a mix of "I won't do nasty things here because it'd upset my girlfriend", "I can be as vicious as I want towards these people because they're unrepentant slavers" and straight up mellowing with time. I play a fairly hands off approach to my characters alignments and usually tell DMs to just tell me if the alignment changes, but he said I was still playing evil. So it can work.

[Kurald Galain]

Psyren mentioned Belkar and Roy. That's a good pair.

Weeelll, I'm pretty sure Roy doesn't consider Belkar a friend. It's mentioned in the comic a few times.

I suppose you could go for Fighter and Black Mage, of 8-bit fame... :smallamused:

[Gildedragon]

Jeyne and Captain Reynolds is perhaps a good example... Though their friendship is somewhat dubious

The problem lies in how we find out their evil and chaos: they have to do something evil in the view of the LG characters, and they have to visibly balk at authority (which their LG companions are an image of)

The closest good example I can get is the bloody selfish selfdestructor protagonist that isolates themselves from their caring LG friends...
Or the sweet dim lawful good follower that idolizes the sharp charismatic chaotic evil leader (or that sticks around as support)

[Kelvarius]

Jeyne and Captain Reynolds is perhaps a good example... Though their friendship is somewhat dubious

Mal isn't exactly Lawful, though. Still, not a bad example.

[Gnaeus]

Jeyne and Captain Reynolds is perhaps a good example... Though their friendship is somewhat dubious

I can't see Reynolds as LG. NG or even CG more likely. He is totally down with smuggling. And pretty OK with theft, as long as the victim isn't too much of an innocent. And his personal code is all about freedom and resisting government authority.

Jeyne and Shepherd Book though...

[Esprit15]

Would you consider Barry the Chopper and Alphonse Elric friends (FMA:B)? Or at least temporary allies, after the events that caused them to meet.

[Gildedragon]

I can't see Reynolds as LG. NG or even CG more likely. He is totally down with smuggling. And pretty OK with theft, as long as the victim isn't too much of an innocent. And his personal code is all about freedom and resisting government authority.

Jeyne and Shepherd Book though...

True but he runs a very tight ship with a quasi military structure; so I'll settle on N on the LC axis.

I feel LE and CG is a more... Commonly depicted friendship pairing (oddly enough) with the LE character showing largesse to their CG friend's antics (which is odd as G is more of the largesse alignment)

[Honest Tiefling]

Not exactly friends, but Captain Picard does gain respect for Q. Q isn't exactly evil, but is quite responsible for that whole Borg thing, so...Well.

Similarly, Kor (who was about to execute several hundred hostages) is probably more in the lawful category of things, but does respect Captain Kirk. It's probably a bit one-sided, but hey, its close, right?

[Gnaeus]

True but he runs a very tight ship with a quasi military structure; so I'll settle on N on the LC axis.

Well, it has a Captain and a second in command, but so does an Orc tribe, and they are CE. I wouldn't call it a tight structure at all. Jayne disobeys Mal with some frequency, and has to be reigned in. IIRC, the doctor threatens to murder Jeyne at one point. Book and Inara don't do spit unless they want to. And River is insane. Mal is clearly the boss, then Zoe. But does Wash rank Kaylee? Does Jayne rank anyone? After 1 & 2, I don't think there is a command structure at all. When Mal and Zoe are off ship, what happens? Jayne starts waving his gun around and has to be drugged. Chaos central.

Thats like saying that Robin Hood, the textbook example of CG, is Lawful because he is the leader of the Merry Men.

[Kurald Galain]

I feel LE and CG is a more... Commonly depicted friendship pairing (oddly enough) with the LE character showing largesse to their CG friend's antics (which is odd as G is more of the largesse alignment)

Indeed, I can think of numerous examples of this.

LG/CE is harder. Regardless of Mal's alignment, Jeyne strikes me as CN more than anything. Where Barry is likely CE, Alphonse Elric is pretty much CG himself. Picard is a strong example of LG, but again Q is basically the CN trickster archetype. Eddard Stark and Petyr Baelish? Meh, not much of a friendship there and again Petyr isn't really evil compared to the rest of the setting. So yeah, this is hard to find in fiction.

[Flickerdart]

Not exactly friends, but Captain Picard does gain respect for Q. Q isn't exactly evil, but is quite responsible for that whole Borg thing, so...Well.

The "Borg thing" was Q fixing the timeline, since the Borg already knew about humanity due to time travel shenanigans, and needed to learn about them in order to have travelled back in time and told themselves about it.

[Gildedragon]

Well, it has a Captain and a second in command, but so does an Orc tribe, and they are CE. I wouldn't call it a tight structure at all. Jayne disobeys Mal with some frequency, and has to be reigned in. IIRC, the doctor threatens to murder Jeyne at one point. Book and Inara don't do spit unless they want to. And River is insane. Mal is clearly the boss, then Zoe. But does Wash rank Kaylee? Does Jayne rank anyone? After 1 & 2, I don't think there is a command structure at all. When Mal and Zoe are off ship, what happens? Jayne starts waving his gun around and has to be drugged. Chaos central.

Thats like saying that Robin Hood, the textbook example of CG, is Lawful because he is the leader of the Merry Men.
You're right. He has the facade of an L type but that's his business face. In private he is quite Cish


Indeed, I can think of numerous examples of this.

LG/CE is harder. Regardless of Mal's alignment, Jeyne strikes me as CN more than anything. Where Barry is likely CE, Alphonse Elric is pretty much CG himself. Picard is a strong example of LG, but again Q is basically the CN trickster archetype. Eddard Stark and Petyr Baelish? Meh, not much of a friendship there and again Petyr isn't really evil compared to the rest of the setting. So yeah, this is hard to find in fiction.
Jeyne is CE through and through; affable and a team player but just look at how things turned out with his previous employers.

But the reason for this is that: G is usually the protagonist and L is the authority, so it gets tricky to show someone going against the protagonist twice over. There is a lot of lowgrade evil... But it is hard to pin down.
In Discworld there's bound to be a pairing. Ideological opposites often meet there

[Gnaeus]

LG/CE is harder. Regardless of Mal's alignment, Jeyne strikes me as CN more than anything. Where Barry is likely CE, Alphonse Elric is pretty much CG himself. Picard is a strong example of LG, but again Q is basically the CN trickster archetype. Eddard Stark and Petyr Baelish? Meh, not much of a friendship there and again Petyr isn't really evil compared to the rest of the setting. So yeah, this is hard to find in fiction.

GRRM is probably the worst place to go. He has stated that no one is truly Good or Evil in his world.

The real problem, again, is finding CE characters who aren't 2d villains or absolutely insane. Clearly possible, but hard to spot, and they are usually debatable and close to the CN line. Elric is my go to, because 1. Deities and Demigods clearly statted him as CE, and 2. His willingness to give the souls of his victims to a dark god to feed his own power is kind of a giveaway. But even there, you will have disputes. Is he CE at the point of the story where he is more heroic? How often does he change alignment, and when?

You kind of have to start with the CE character and work backwards.....

[Gildedragon]

Ice King and Finn; their friendship is mild and tinged with pity/empathy (from the Finn side) but it is there.
But the long and short of it is that they have to be whole characters characters, not solely defined nor wholly ruled by their alignment; and they have to both be pro-social; giving something to the relationship

[Kurald Galain]

Ok, here we go. Goku + Vegeta probably works, although they're more like teammates instead of friends (and Vegeta tends to fall back into wanting to kill Goku).

Odin + Loki from Norse mythology (not the Marvel version), although Loki didn't start out as evil, and it didn't end so well for him.

Possibly Gilgamesh Wulfenbach + Bangladesh Dupree from Girl Genius.

Leela and Bender from Futurama. Again, debatably.

And, of course, we can draw some great examples from Planescape: Torment. The Nameless One (if you choose to be LG) and Ignus. Possibly Trias and Fjhull, although they aren't really friends. The First Incarnation and Ravel Puzzlewell, although that really didn't end well.

[Gnaeus]

Punisher is probably CE. So Punisher + Jen Cooke or Molly Richtofen or any LG hero Punisher teams up with?

[Kurald Galain]

GRRM is probably the worst place to go. He has stated that no one is truly Good or Evil in his world.
Meh, Death of the Author goes a long way. (note to moderators: that's a literary principle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_the_Author), not a threat :smallamused: )

Eddard Stark is clearly Lawful Good, for example.


Jeyne is CE through and through; affable and a team player but just look at how things turned out with his previous employers.
Nope, not seeing it. Jubal Early is CE. Adelei Niska is very CE. Jayne Cobb? He's loyal only to himself and his money, but is otherwise not overly interested in killing and maiming people for the heck of it. That would be a clear example of CN.


In Discworld there's bound to be a pairing. Ideological opposites often meet there
Upon reflection, I can't think of any. While Discworld has its fair share of CE antagonists (e.g. Jonathan Teatime or Wolfgang von Uberwald), they tend to not have any friends. At all.


Ice King and Finn; their friendship is mild and tinged with pity/empathy (from the Finn side) but it is there.
Ice King, again, strikes me as CN rather than evil.

[Psyren]

Eddard Stark is clearly Lawful Good, for example.

Honestly I don't think so. When we first meet him at all, he's executing someone who was only fleeing from supernatural horrors they had no hope against anyway. He executes his daughter's innocent wolf because they can't find the one that actually bit the crown prince. These are certainly very lawful actions, but I wouldn't consider them to be "good." He keeps his word and is (mostly) good to his family but I'd put him at LN.

[Gnaeus]

You don't have to kill for lols to be CE. Murdering a teammate for profit is still a plenty evil act, as is throwing a teammate out of a plane BEFORE the bag of money. And there is very little black to balance the red in his ledger.

Part of the problem is that 99% of the time, a CE character who is traveling with good characters will act CN. The fact that they have no qualms against torture, rape, or murder will not be apparent if they lack the opportunity.

And also, the difference between alignments often comes down to motive. When batman kicks someone's ass and dangles them over a building, it makes all the difference in the world if he is doing it to protect the city or to avenge his parents and silence his inner demons. Without an omniscient narrator telling us why people do what they do, we can't see the line.

If the only examples of CE we can use are cackling, diabolical villains, then sure, the answer is no. If we can use people who are more mundanely evil, or CE anti heroes, then the answer is yes.

[Honest Tiefling]

Part of the problem is that 99% of the time, a CE character who is traveling with good characters will act CN. The fact that they have no qualms against torture, rape, or murder will not be apparent if they lack the opportunity.

Yeah, I feel this is a good point. Why would you annoy people you know are pretty powerful, as opposed to play nicely because they tend to protect your back? Betrayal for the lolz is pretty silly.

Through what of Talia al Ghul and Batman? It's not exactly a friendship here, but she's been portrayed as being pretty vicious. I would bring up Catwoman, but she seems more CN and is often depicted stealing shinies from rich people, so...

[Kurald Galain]

I disagree with the notion that a character who acts (chaotic) neutral most of the time and performs the occasional evil act is therefore of evil alignment. Look over the relevant Tvtropes page (tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChaoticEvil) for stronger examples of the CE alignment.

CN is "heartless mercenary" (among other archetypes). CE is "kill people for the lulz".


Through what of Talia al Ghul and Batman? It's not exactly a friendship here, but she's been portrayed as being pretty vicious. I would bring up Catwoman, but she seems more CN and is often depicted stealing shinies from rich people, so...
Batman isn't lawful good.

[Gnaeus]

Curiously, I did read theTvtropes definition earlier today and my first thought was that that was the stupidest definition for an alignment I had ever read. That is chaotic stupid.

A character who is evil significantly more often than they are good is evil. You don't have to be willing to kill at all to be evil. A hedge fund manager could be evil. A neutral character who routinely casts evil spells can be evil. The difference between the hero who hunts orcs to protect his family and his friend who does it just because he hates orcs and thinks they are an inferior race is the difference between ALL their acts being good or evil.

[Kurald Galain]

Curiously, I did read theTvtropes definition earlier today and my first thought was that that was the stupidest definition for an alignment I had ever read. That is chaotic stupid.
Nope. They also have a page for that, of course: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChaoticStupid


A character who is evil significantly more often than they are good is evil.
The key words here being "significantly" and "routinely", as opposed to (what I was talking about) "occasionally".

[graeylin]

It all depends on how big a role alignment plays in your game, and how close to reality you want your game (question) to be.

In game, sure... you can make almost anything happen. Have the LG love the CE, and they can ignore the parts of each other's lives that bug them.

In reality... it works for a while, but normally, in my real life experience, the two will gravitate apart, simply because they won't actually like each other. They can kid themselves for a while (shared experience, crisis, willful ignorance), but honestly, it will begin to show.

Imagine a very family oriented, hard working, upright moral person whose best friend cheats on his spouse, routinely. And, perhaps, abuses his children, or ignores them in order to gamble, drink, or do other selfish pleasures.

Can they be friends? Perhaps. Forever? I doubt it. Sooner or later, the "good" one is going to get tired of the "evil" one, and the "evil" one is not going to enjoy being around the "good" one, and they will drift away/apart.

Honestly, in real life? The older you get, the less drama you want in your life from others, and people who don't share your values are among the first bits of "drama" you will toss overboard. The closer you play your game life to real life, the closer this will be as well.

[Kelvarius]

I wonder if anyone here has read the story of Kjellmir Bloodskull, played by a 4chan poster Wasteland Warrior.

Kjellmir was an Evil fighter in a party full of Good types, lead by a Paladin, and became friends with all of them despite his evil ways. Granted, he was NE and not CE, but I feel it still works pretty well. Either way, it's a good story, though be warned there is a lot of language in it if you search for it. Shouldn't be hard to find if you just Google both of those names.

[Yogibear41]

Played in a game once where I was a CE Cleric, another player was playing a LG cleric, we got along well in game because we as real players got along, that and we were group with a handful of IRL morons who just screwed us over constantly one way or another. We found ways in game to work around each other's codes/morals, and even in character we respected each other more than the rest of our group because we were both powerful individuals in our own right.


In some ways having a CE individual be your friend is way better than having a LG character be your friend. CE characters can definitely care about more than just themselves, and if you are one of the things they happen to care about, then they will do just about anything to help you in certain situations, where a LG character would not be able to do certain things due to his morals or code.

[Yogibear41]

Batman isn't lawful good.

That is debatable IMO. So many character have so many facets to their personalities in different situations its often easy to justify several alignments for them.

I would definitely say catwoman is CN though, and the Al Ghul's are more LE than CE.

[Malroth]

It all depends on the Type of chaotic evil character being played

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?446414-No-Limits-No-Regrets-A-guide-to-the-Chaotic-Evil-alignment

If they're Playing a Queen of Hearts, A Kefka Pillazzo, or a Joker type then it's certianly justified for you to talk to him about how being friends with someone might be out of character. If they're a Tyler Derden, a Jack Bauer or a Nico Bellic then friendship is pretty much what makes him Chaotic in the first.

[LTwerewolf]

I disagree with the notion that a character who acts (chaotic) neutral most of the time and performs the occasional evil act is therefore of evil alignment.



Frequency isn't the only factor though. Lack of opportunity matters. Given the opportunity how would they act? That matters every bit as much as what they have actually done. Would you argue someone in a prison cell for murdering orphan babies starts to be neutral aligned because he hasn't murdered any lately, or would he still be evil because given the opportunity he would do it again?

[noce]

Jack and Sawyer from Lost, although Sawyer shifts towards neutrality eventually.

[Kurald Galain]

Frequency isn't the only factor though. Lack of opportunity matters.

Agreed, but that doesn't apply to the characters we were discussing (since they are not imprisoned or otherwise kept away from opportunity).

[LTwerewolf]

Agreed, but that doesn't apply to the characters we were discussing (since they are not imprisoned or otherwise kept away from opportunity).

The argument is that in the presence of the LG, that limits the opportunity. CE can recognize a useful ally and recognize that certain actions, even if they would normally do them, would ruin said alliance. Not doing the action doesn't make them CN, just a CE that has an int and wis score greater than 3.

[Kelvarius]

Jack and Sawyer from Lost, although Sawyer shifts towards neutrality eventually.

I would argue that they don't really become friendly until after Sawyer shifts toward neutrality.

[Arbane]

Punisher is probably CE. So Punisher + Jen Cooke or Molly Richtofen or any LG hero Punisher teams up with?

Cable and Deadpool? (Back when their series was a thing, at least. I get the impression Deadpool's been heroing it up a lot more lately.)

Edit: Crowley and Aziraphale.

[Kurald Galain]

Edit: Crowley and Aziraphale.

Great example! :smallbiggrin:

[The Insanity]

Revy and what's-his-name (the japanese protagonist guy) from Black Lagoon.

[Tetsubo 57]

If I were playing a LG character and the CE character acted on their alignment I don't see how I could befriend them. There are people in the real world that cleave to political philosophies that I abhor. I do not socialize with them. That is as close to an 'alignment' as I can think of in the real world.

[noce]

My LN dwarf bonded with the NE sorcerer more than the rest of the party, despite his actions.
He brutally raped a young woman, convinced a boy to kill his father and burn his house, killed a PC, dreamed to kill me and is planning to take the side of demons in the upcoming war.
The reason we're friends is I don't know he did those things. Sometimes I suspected, but his skyhigh bluff reassured me.

[Kyberwulf]

I think the problem with this, is that most people think Chaotic people are inherently evil.

Balkar isn't Chaotic Evil. He is pretty much Neutral Evil. He does what he can, but never too much.
Jayne would be Lawful Evil. He is pretty much textbook Lawful Evil.
Mal is Lawful Neutral. He does what he says, means what he says, and you can always trust his word. He does good, but isn't beholden to good.

Batman, that stupid alignment meme. If you take snapshots out of any characters books and post it up like that. Of course anyone would look screwed up.

Most of the "Chaotic Evil" people that everyone assumes, they all have limits or rules that stops them from being truly chaotic evil.

[Kurald Galain]

I think the problem with this, is that most people think Chaotic people are inherently evil.

Balkar isn't Chaotic Evil. He is pretty much Neutral Evil.

Jayne would be Lawful Evil. He is pretty much textbook Lawful Evil.

Mal is Lawful Neutral.
Um, no? Wherever did you get those ideas?

[AslanCross]

http://www.giantitp.com/Images/comics/oots/Comics_OOTS_Pic001.gif

Belkar may annoy Roy all the time, and Belkar may be a selfish and violent jerk, but that doesn't stop them from working together and actually coming to a mutual understanding of each other. The comic actually shows that to a certain extent they have come to respect each other.

[A_S]

If your players are up for roleplaying it seriously, a cross-alignment friendship can be one of the most fun things in the game to play through.

In a Forgotten Realms campaign I was in a while ago, one of the most satisfying roleplaying threads was the relationship between my (out-of-game) friend's Lawful Evil Cleric of Bane, and my Neutral Good Bard. His angle was that he was playing a "for the greater good"-style evil character, who sincerely believed that ruthless tyranny was the most effective way of minimizing overall human suffering, and he specifically believed that Torm was the most destructive and (in consequentialist terms) evil being in the universe, with the destruction of Tantras (which he naturally blamed on Torm rather than Bane) as the ultimate proof on the subject. My bard was staunchly a-religious (as in "gods aren't worthy of worship," not "gods don't exist"), and had a strong live-and-let-live streak when it came to differing ideas and alignments.

Our characters found common ground in our disdain for the good pantheon, and in the things we agreed on in terms of "terminal values" (i.e., the ends that might or might not justify the means). Also the fact that we had a shared stake in fighting our common foes and preventing the end of the world. We argued constantly, but civilly, about our disagreements on when and why good ends did or did not justify evil means, whether Bane was really any more worthy of worship than Torm, and whether security or personal liberty were more important for the good of society.

The Cleric leaned much more heavily on the Lawful end of things than the Evil end of things (both to be consistent with his character, and for metagame reasons to keep his actions from breaking up the party), but every once in a while he did something so egregiously ruthless that my Bard had to oppose him. When something like that came up, we worked with each other and the DM out of game to come up with ways to have our inter-party conflicts be interesting without breaking up the party or ruining the game. It came to blows a few times (always OK'ed with each other ahead of time), but between the Cleric's willingness to compromise (i.e., not murder someone he really wanted to murder) for the "greater good," and my Bard's unreasonable certainty that, if I just tried hard enough, my friend could be convinced of the error of his ways, we always found a way to work together again.

This kind of thing is a lot of work, but if your players are willing to put the effort into it, it can be awesome.