Does minor fiends gain power from cult / worship / sacrifices?

[Conradine]

Archfiends have cults, although it's not clear if they gain power from worship - or only by possession of souls.
Anyway, since powerful fiends grant rewards for sacrifices, I guess every strong evil outsider can gain power from them.


So, the question: could a minor independent demon , like a Quasit or a Succubus, gain personal power from his own cult?

[Necroticplague]

There's a prestige class for this in Fiend Folio, which implies the answer is no by default, but it's possible for a lesser demon to learn how.

[Zeruel]

So, the question: could a minor independent demon , like a Quasit or a Succubus, gain personal power from his own cult?

I believe it would be very unlikely that a demon as lowly as a quasit could have cult. If you think about it, powerful demons and devils have cults because they are powerful and dangerous: therefore, being a quasit a creature that could be overwhelmed by, say, 5-6 peasants, I don't think it could have someone worshipping it.

Yet, a succubus, despite being more powerful than a quasit, is more of a sneaky kind and difficult to know about, and it would gain more power by trying to seduce and physically possess to death their preys than having them simply kneeling and chanting (while if the lithurgy would imply that the worshippers have to make out with demon, I believe it wouldn't be much different for the succubus to even have a lithurgy...). :smallbiggrin:

But hey, you can have all the creatures you want in your campaign if you're a DM, like Power template succubi and On Steroids template quasits, so be creative and pump them up!

To me, the CR for a monster to be eligible to have a cult would be around 14-15 at least, but that's debatable. Hope I have been of some help!

EDIT:
I just realized I actually didn't answer your question, sorry. So, I would say yes if they are powerful enough, in form of a boost to their scores and CL for SLA depending on how many people worship them; I'd say +1 CL for every 10-20 cultist, a +1 on ability scores for every 50 cultist, and temporary extra boosts if they make sacrificies.

[Gildedragon]

I'd say: yes probably. But mind controlled cultists don't count.
Their faith in one has to be genuine... And it is tough to appear worthy of worship while at the bottom of the totem pole

[Darth Ultron]

So, the question: could a minor independent demon , like a Quasit or a Succubus, gain personal power from his own cult?

Not by the rules. There just are not any ''cult power rules'' in the game. There are a handful of spells, powers, and abilities that let someone 'gain' power from others. A demon could Vampire Touch a willing follower, for example.

Though any demon could start a ''cult'' that was just a ''group''...

[Troacctid]

Devils do actually sometimes pretend to be demons in order to swindle naive demon-worshiping cultists into performing acts of obeisance and becoming Lawful. Does that count?

[Milo v3]

I believe it would be very unlikely that a demon as lowly as a quasit could have cult. If you think about it, powerful demons and devils have cults because they are powerful and dangerous: therefore, being a quasit a creature that could be overwhelmed by, say, 5-6 peasants, I don't think it could have someone worshipping it.
There are humans with no powers in real life that had cults believing they were gods throughout history, so shouldn't be too hard for a truly magical creature.

[Xuldarinar]

A quasit could acquire a cult, but the circumstances would have to be strange.

Examples;

A quasit cons a group of individuals throughly enough. Then again, so could a human.

At least under pathfinder, a quasit is a demon formed from a portion of a soul tainted by the abyss. Perhaps the quasit is derived from someone important. For instance, if a quasit could prove they were once Razmir's, or belonged to another worshiped figure.




Asside the point though. Would the quasit acquire power from it? It depends on the measure. Having people revere you comes with the power of authority, so in that sense.. yes. But if you refer more in the manner of like a deity, it would require a vast amount. Typically, if memory serves, a massive following is often used as a component of attaining god-hood. But then again, I may be mixing editions here.

[Gildedragon]

There are humans with no powers in real life that had cults believing they were gods throughout history, so shouldn't be too hard for a truly magical creature.
Except they are significantly less magical than other creatures around or even some other folk.
And a quasit or imp or succubus can't say "there's a greater power/aliens/transcendental-force" they have to be the focus of worship

[Crake]

There's a prestige class for this in Fiend Folio, which implies the answer is no by default, but it's possible for a lesser demon to learn how.

I don't believe fiend of blasphemy actually grants the fiend any personal increase in power due to it's worshippers, but rather gives them power over their worshippers, being able to wrack them with pain, observe them from afar, or, as the cap stone, kill them at will, but also enables them to grant their worshippers power in the form of up to 12th level cleric casting (as in, they can grant spells to clerics as if they were higher powers, not that they can just spontaneously grant some random nobody with casting as a 12th level cleric) and also give them uses of their innate SLAs.

I imagine the main benefit of having a cult would be to harvest the souls, which would then be used to increase one's own power, etiher by consuming them for 10xp each or whatever (seems minimal, but adds up over hundreds of followers, even level 1 commoner plebs who would normally not grant any xp if you were to kill them), or to use them in item crafting in place of your own xp, or trading them as currency in the lower planes.

[Zeruel]

Except they are significantly less magical than other creatures around or even some other folk.
And a quasit or imp or succubus can't say "there's a greater power/aliens/transcendental-force" they have to be the focus of worship

Just as I would have said :smallsmile:


I don't believe fiend of blasphemy actually grants the fiend any personal increase in power due to it's worshippers, but rather gives them power over their worshippers, being able to wrack them with pain, observe them from afar, or, as the cap stone, kill them at will, but also enables them to grant their worshippers power in the form of up to 12th level cleric casting (as in, they can grant spells to clerics as if they were higher powers, not that they can just spontaneously grant some random nobody with casting as a 12th level cleric) and also give them uses of their innate SLAs.

I imagine the main benefit of having a cult would be to harvest the souls, which would then be used to increase one's own power, etiher by consuming them for 10xp each or whatever (seems minimal, but adds up over hundreds of followers, even level 1 commoner plebs who would normally not grant any xp if you were to kill them), or to use them in item crafting in place of your own xp, or trading them as currency in the lower planes.

That's probably the better solution, and besides the soul harvesting, remember that the fiend could use the followers as loyal servants and soldiers, rising dramatically the CR of the demon.

[the_david]

I was actually planning to do this with an Imp and some Kobold followers. I was thinking about giving him a mythic rank after his cultists die. It's for Pathfinder though, and the Bestiary actually suggests that an Imp could end up with Kobold followers, so it's not the most original encounter.

But just imagine the Imp thanking the low level PCs for slaying all his kobold minions before vanishing into thin air. I just can't wait to see the look on their faces.

[Gnaeus]

I would think the more usual route is:
Imp persuades 20 kobolds to worship Asmodeus (or other big fiend of choice)
They die.
Imp goes to his next performance review and says "I did that as an Imp. Think what I could do as a succubus!!!"
Imp gets transformed into cooler thing

The side benefits include that if he can lure one into being a cleric or adept or blackguard, his boss can actually grant spells.

[Crake]

I would think the more usual route is:
Imp persuades 20 kobolds to worship Asmodeus (or other big fiend of choice)
They die.
Imp goes to his next performance review and says "I did that as an Imp. Think what I could do as a succubus!!!"
Imp gets transformed into cooler thing

The side benefits include that if he can lure one into being a cleric or adept or blackguard, his boss can actually grant spells.

This is pretty much what would happen to a devil. They work on a souls = promotion heirarchy, more souls, means better form. According to the fiendish codex 2 (i know you're using pathfinder, but there's no reason to abandon perfectly good lore), an im would be promoted to a steel devil, chain devil, or possibly even a harvester devil, depending on how successful his cult is, and how many souls he managed to wrangle in. In this case, the souls he gathers are not actually directly his, but instead go to his superior, up the line to the archduke he serves under. His promotion is not so much a result of the souls he gathers, but the approval and blessing of his superiors for a job well done.

Also worth noting, succubi are demons, so a devil would not be able to become one through promotion.

[Honest Tiefling]

Personally, I think this one should be up to the setting. If you have a lot of demigods running around, then it makes a whole lotta sense that demons can get in on the divine action as well. But if divinity is something that is a lot more difficult to get your hands on, then not even lowly succubi should be able to do it. If mortals can ascend to godhood (with or without divine interference) should also be a factor. If those guys can, what's stopping a demon?

Honestly, I think the nature of the divine in a setting is so tied to the themes and the presentation of it that there shouldn't be one good answer for all settings.

Through if any demon were to do it, I think it should be the Lilitu. For some I really like those demons...

[the_david]

This is pretty much what would happen to a devil. They work on a souls = promotion heirarchy, more souls, means better form. According to the fiendish codex 2 (i know you're using pathfinder, but there's no reason to abandon perfectly good lore), an im would be promoted to a steel devil, chain devil, or possibly even a harvester devil, depending on how successful his cult is, and how many souls he managed to wrangle in. In this case, the souls he gathers are not actually directly his, but instead go to his superior, up the line to the archduke he serves under. His promotion is not so much a result of the souls he gathers, but the approval and blessing of his superiors for a job well done.

Also worth noting, succubi are demons, so a devil would not be able to become one through promotion.

Hmm, yeah. It's actually much the same way in Pathfinder, except that there isn't any info on how an Imp can be promoted. Other devils, yes. Imps, no...

I might have to check out the other evil outsiders though. Pathfinder introduced plenty of new monsters to play with like the Kytons, Divs, Daemons and the Qlippoths.