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Kizara
2007-06-29, 02:07 AM
Eldritch blast is a spell-like ability.

It's eternally lvl 1 (see errata).
When you use shape and essense invocations, its effective level increases.

So... how the _frick_ does the meta-(spell-like ability) feats work with lock?

Can you seriously just go max/empower/quicken etc at like lvl 6 and just completely steamroll stuff?

Explain please.

Jasdoif
2007-06-29, 02:15 AM
Spell-like abilities aren't spells, you can't apply metamagic feats to them.

There are similar feats for spell-like abilities, though. Empower Spell-like Ability (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#empowerSpellLikeAbility) and Quicken Spell-like Ability (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#quickenSpellLikeAbility), for instance. I think Complete Arcane has Maximize Spell-like Ability in it, as well.

Solo
2007-06-29, 02:19 AM
Metamagic feats that increase the level of a SLA won't work with it. (C. Arcane)

Thus, you can use Sudden Maximize on an EB, but you can't use Maximize Spell on it. (Again, C. Arcane)

Kizara
2007-06-29, 02:20 AM
....

Read post more carefully?

I said "meta-(spell-like ability)". I am aware of that much, you didn't really answer my question at all.

Solo
2007-06-29, 02:24 AM
Oh, in that case, if you would bother to read the description of a meta SLA feat, it will tell everything you need to know.

Basically, you have to be a certain level before you can apply your meta SLA feat to your SLA


Edit: Why is the thread called "Warlocks and Metamagic" if you aren't talking about metamagic?

Jasdoif
2007-06-29, 02:32 AM
Oh. Weird, I've never heard them referred to as "meta-spell-like-ability" feats before.

Anyway, take a look at the feats. You need to have a specific caster level based on the equivalent spell level to take a feat, as mentioned in the feat's text. A basic eldritch blast is always considered a 1st-level equivalent, like you said, with a caster level equal to your warlock level; so you'd need to be level 6 to take Empower Spell-Like Ability with it, and level 10 to take Quicken Spell-Like Ability with it. However, if an invocation increases the effective spell level of your eldritch blast, you'll need sufficient caster level for that spell level to use the feat with it.

You can use each feat three times per day. I don't believe you can combine multiple such feats (so you can't quicken and empower the same eldritch blast).


For reference, I'll quote the FAQ:
Can a warlock apply Empower Spell-Like Ability or Quicken Spell-Like Ability (Monster Manual, pages 303– 304) to his eldritch blast? What level would he have to be to do so?

Thanks to the official errata for Complete Arcane (which established that an eldritch blast is “the equivalent of a 1stlevel spell”), the answer to this question is yes.

The chart on page 304 of the Monster Manual describes the caster level required to empower or quicken a spell-like ability. A warlock needs to have a caster level of 6th to empower his eldritch blast, or a caster level of 10th to quicken it.

If the warlock applies an eldritch essence or blast shape invocation to his eldritch blast, the blast’s level equivalent (and thus the required caster level) increases. Empowering an eldritch cone (the equivalent of a 5th-level spell) requires the warlock to be 14th level, while quickening a frightful blast (the equivalent of a 2nd-level spell) requires a 12th-level warlock.

Kizara
2007-06-29, 02:32 AM
I got sorta ninja'd, I was replaying to the guy that posted above you and had alot less useful information.

and "Warlock and Meta-Spell-like Ability" seemed kinda an ackward title.

Kizara
2007-06-29, 02:35 AM
Oh. Weird, I've never heard them referred to as "meta-spell-like-ability" feats before.

Anyway, take a look at the feats. You need to have a specific caster level based on the equivalent spell level to take a feat, as mentioned in the feat's text. A basic eldritch blast is always considered a 1st-level equivalent, like you said, with a caster level equal to your warlock level; so you'd need to be level 6 to take Empower Spell-Like Ability with it, and level 10 to take Quicken Spell-Like Ability with it. However, if an invocation increases the effective spell level of your eldritch blast, you'll need sufficient caster level for that spell level to use the feat with it.

You can use each feat three times per day. I don't believe you can combine multiple such feats (so you can't quicken and empower the same eldritch blast).


For reference, I'll quote the FAQ:

Alright. Thanks for the additional information/clarification.
Am I basically right in saying that to be a good warlock you need to completely cheese-out on such feats? Cause that seems preeetty good to me.

Solo
2007-06-29, 02:45 AM
You could.

Here's a lot of good warlock info you may want, though.
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=751117

My own warlock build is focused on UMD and crafting scrolls.