Just took the AFOQT, thoughts

[danzibr]

For some background, I started thinking about joining the AF back in late February of this year. I contacted a recruiter in March, first one was a bit of a stinker, went through a different office, second one was awesome. I started studying for the AFOQT in March. Did 6.5 practice tests (a full one and a mini official, then several unofficial). Didn't know anything about instrument reading or aviation until the tests. Also buffed up my general science and vocab.

Also, I'm 28, have a PhD in math, and teach at a HS.

For the test, I did the newish Form T version. The made the switch about 2 years ago. Unfortunately, the 6.5 tests I studied were all the old version. I'll highlight the differences as I go.

I took the test this past Monday (13 June). My good friend sponsored me on base. Got there about 0730, testing room doors opened at 0745, test began at 0800. I was one of five taking the test.

Now, the actual test. Part 1 was verbal analogies (dog is to puppy as cat is to ___, except way harder). I had about 20 seconds per question. Everything was going well, but I had 8 left with only 1 minute, had to guess on the last 3. I believe I did quite well

Part 2 was simple math stuff, like ratios and percents. I finished it in about half the given time, went back and checked everything. I believe I didn't miss a single one.

Part 3 was vocab. They give you a word, you choose another word closest in meaning. I think I may have missed 1 or 2. They chose a lot of uncommon words, but fortunately I have a decent vocab.

Part 4 was more math, this time Geometry and Algebra. Again I finished in about half the time, don't think I missed any.

Part 5 was reading comprehension, like on the ACT when you read a passage and have to answer questions. They were quite interesting. Now, this is the first one that was different. Parts 1 through 4 were similar to practice tests, this one was brand new. There were 5 passages, iirc, each with 4 or 5 questions. I had time left over, think I did well.

Then we had a 10-minute break. Nice.

Part 6 was... like, leadership judgment calls. They give you a situation with 5 options, you're supposed to choose the single best response, then single worst. Some were very easy, others were quite tricky. I think I did alright. This also was not on the practice tests at all.

Part 7 was just a huge personality test. Maybe 150 questions, I'm not sure. It was on the old tests, but not the old practice test. They'd say something like, "I like art," and you responded A-E, from strongly disagree to strongly agree. They asked some questions several times in slightly different forms.

Then we had a 15-minute break. Also nice.

Part 8 was general science knowledge. Quite a bit like the practice tests, but they removed Biology. No biggie. I know I botched one for sure (brain fart), but I think I did well.

Part 9 was table reading. You have a big table, they give you an x- and a y-coordinate, you find the corresponding entry. Sounds super simple. Problem is, you have very little time. So you're looking at your test booklet with the ordered pairs, then you look at your table to find the entry, then you look back at your test booklet to find which letter corresponds to the right number, then you actually fill it in. Out of 40 questions, I filled in C on the last 7 or so.

Part 10 was instrument reading. They show you two instruments, you determine what the plane looks like. Like the practice tests, but fortunately with higher quality pictures. I had a decent bit of practice, was doing well, messed one up, skipped it but somehow lost my place, was filling in bubbles for the wrong numbers, didn't have time to go back and fix it, blegh. A bit of a mess, think I did poorly.

Part 11 was block counting. They show you a stack of blocks, some have labels, you count the number of adjacent blocks. Sounds really simple, and it is simple, but you have to do it lickety split. I think I did alright.

Part 12 was aviation knowledge. I knew pretty much nothing before March. Learned a lot from those practice tests. But... there's an awful lot of aviation knowledge out there, I knew maybe half of them. Not feeling great about it.

Took about 4.5 hours. Real brain buster. Results in 7-14 days. I'm going to be checking my e-mail like a hawk this coming Monday.

[Togath]

Have you ever considered the real moral issues you'll need to face if you join?
I mean the real ones. The dark ones. The grim ones.
Ranging from just losing contact with family, friends, loved ones, and pets, to far far bigger things(which probably cannot be discussed on these forums).

[Brother Oni]

Have you ever considered the real moral issues you'll need to face if you join?
I mean the real ones. The dark ones. The grim ones.
Ranging from just losing contact with family, friends, loved ones, and pets, to far far bigger things(which probably cannot be discussed on these forums).

He's joining the AF, he'll be fine. :smalltongue:

More seriously, it depends on what military specialisation he's signing on for. Some 'jobs' in the military are basically an 9-5 office job with a very strict dress code - not everybody is combat arms and there's a lot less directly 'shoot the enemy' type roles in the AF compared to the USMC, say.

[danzibr]

Have you ever considered the real moral issues you'll need to face if you join?
I mean the real ones. The dark ones. The grim ones.
Ranging from just losing contact with family, friends, loved ones, and pets, to far far bigger things(which probably cannot be discussed on these forums).
Yup, sure have. I appreciate your concern.

He's joining the AF, he'll be fine. :smalltongue:

More seriously, it depends on what military specialisation he's signing on for. Some 'jobs' in the military are basically an 9-5 office job with a very strict dress code - not everybody is combat arms and there's a lot less directly 'shoot the enemy' type roles in the AF compared to the USMC, say.
And Brother Oni got it here, at least to my knowledge.

The three jobs I'm really looking at are Intelligence Officer, Space Operations Officer, and Analytical Scientist.

The goal of the first one is to get the right information to the right people at the right time. All about info. I could be telling ground troops what kind of weapons the enemy has, or looking at signals and whatnot.

For the second one, I might be working with GPS, or shooting crap into outer space.

For the third, I'd essentially gather and, well, analyze data. Could be for anything. One guy contacted NASA to get the location of debris in outer space to see if crap would be hitting our satellites.

[Winter_Wolf]

Hope you don't get stuck in a missile bunker assignment. I had a buddy in AF, he said that it was incredibly boring. And really far underground in a tight enclosed space. But then again he was 6'6" so there's that.

Eventually he retired. Now (I'm totally serious here) he teaches HS math.

[danzibr]

Hope you don't get stuck in a missile bunker assignment. I had a buddy in AF, he said that it was incredibly boring. And really far underground in a tight enclosed space. But then again he was 6'6" so there's that.

Eventually he retired. Now (I'm totally serious here) he teaches HS math.
Haha, funny how things work that way.

Yeah, I've heard Nuclear and Missile Operations Officer is an absolutely dreadful job. 4 days on, 3 days off (which doesn't sound terrible), but your 4 days on are always just hanging out in the bunker with missiles. All the time. Mind numbingly boring.

[Brother Oni]

Yeah, I've heard Nuclear and Missile Operations Officer is an absolutely dreadful job. 4 days on, 3 days off (which doesn't sound terrible), but your 4 days on are always just hanging out in the bunker with missiles. All the time. Mind numbingly boring.

Shift work, let alone military work, is near always a pain if you want to have a life or friends outside work, especially when your 'on' days fall on a weekend or a public holiday.

There are a couple of Playgrounders who are USAF (one is either a half or a full bird colonel if I remember correctly), so they might chime in with their experiences if they see this thread.

[Jonzac]

USAF Officer here. I wouldn't worry about the aviation portion of the test. You actually go through the OTS review process twice, once for Rated (Pilot) acceptance and then all others. I scored 97 on rated but with bad eyesight I couldn't be a pilot (or navigator). It took over a year before my package went through both reviews. You will also have an interview as well and you should have some letters of recommendation as well. I wrote my districts congressmen and some former bosses.

1. Intel Officer WILL deploy to the desert...count on it.
2. I don't know a lot about Space Ops, but it used to be the same AFSC (job code) as the nuclear missile ops guys so I'd check on that (13S is the code for the nuclear guys)
3. If you're a Scientist (63X AFSCs) you'll be set into a lot of the acquisition type jobs and you choices of bases are fairly limited. (Albuquerque where the AF Research Labs, Wright Patterson in Ohio, Hanscom in Tennessee, Several in Virginia area.

Not sure what you're looking to do in your career.

Have you ever considered the real moral issues you'll need to face if you join?

I mean the real ones. The dark ones. The grim ones.
Ranging from just losing contact with family, friends, loved ones, and pets, to far far bigger things(which probably cannot be discussed on these forums).

No offence (or at least not too much) but do you really thing that the military is constantly engaged in such borderline issues that everyone one of the 500,000+ of us are raging killers that just can't wait to kill someone? I'm not sure what you think happens to us, but I've friends all over the country and the world, almost everywhere I go I could stop and visit someone I've lived/worked with. Even those jobs that have more combat than others do not leave everyone with PTSD and the overwhelming desire to shut out the world.

[Togath]

I'm not saying people in the military are crazed killers, just that they have to face the possibility that they may need to, or that friends they make have a potentially very high chance of ending up separated by hundred of miles(or killed or badly injured).
It's also worth noting that you may need to move around a lot. And even if you have "friends everywhere you go", it still means leaving ones behind, as well as your family.
And please don't try to paint it as some sunshine job. Almost every position will feature some stress far beyond what a normal person has. And if you don't think so, then you are just deluding yourself. There's been studies that show it.
In the long run. Something will happen.
And you need to think to yourself. And ask yourself. Is this really worth it? What is it you are really truly doing by taking this job?

[Grinner]

Have you ever considered the real moral issues you'll need to face if you join?
I mean the real ones. The dark ones. The grim ones.
Ranging from just losing contact with family, friends, loved ones, and pets, to far far bigger things(which probably cannot be discussed on these forums).

From what I've heard, most military personnel don't see combat. Unless you're referring to drone combat...?

[Togath]

I was counting drones. I mean, drones are a lot better than sending foot soldiers, in that it reduces the odds of you yourself getting injured, but it still involves making the choice to kill someone.
Now, I do get, that sometimes it's sadly necessary to do, but it is a choice someone doing this kind of thing might face, and might regret.

[danzibr]

Shift work, let alone military work, is near always a pain if you want to have a life or friends outside work, especially when your 'on' days fall on a weekend or a public holiday.

There are a couple of Playgrounders who are USAF (one is either a half or a full bird colonel if I remember correctly), so they might chime in with their experiences if they see this thread.
One appears!

USAF Officer here. I wouldn't worry about the aviation portion of the test. You actually go through the OTS review process twice, once for Rated (Pilot) acceptance and then all others. I scored 97 on rated but with bad eyesight I couldn't be a pilot (or navigator). It took over a year before my package went through both reviews. You will also have an interview as well and you should have some letters of recommendation as well. I wrote my districts congressmen and some former bosses.

1. Intel Officer WILL deploy to the desert...count on it.
2. I don't know a lot about Space Ops, but it used to be the same AFSC (job code) as the nuclear missile ops guys so I'd check on that (13S is the code for the nuclear guys)
3. If you're a Scientist (63X AFSCs) you'll be set into a lot of the acquisition type jobs and you choices of bases are fairly limited. (Albuquerque where the AF Research Labs, Wright Patterson in Ohio, Hanscom in Tennessee, Several in Virginia area.

Not sure what you're looking to do in your career.
Huh... when did you go through OTS? Did it change? To my understanding, there are 4 boards per year, 2 rated and 2 non-rated. The next non-rated board meets Octoberish. Rated was/is Juneish.

Letters of recommendation, good. Have 2 pilot buddies, 1 retired buddy, and 1 of my pilot buddies can secure 2 others for me. If one falls through, still have my 4.

Anyway, thanks for the information!

I was counting drones. I mean, drones are a lot better than sending foot soldiers, in that it reduces the odds of you yourself getting injured, but it still involves making the choice to kill someone.
Now, I do get, that sometimes it's sadly necessary to do, but it is a choice someone doing this kind of thing might face, and might regret.
Drones. I hear that's an *awful* job. Like, there are more people leaving than signing up. Overworked, underpaid, extremely stressful. It's so bad they're offering huge bonuses. Fortunately, I can't get that job.

[Grinner]

Drones. I hear that's an *awful* job. Like, there are more people leaving than signing up. Overworked, underpaid, extremely stressful. It's so bad they're offering huge bonuses. Fortunately, I can't get that job.

I'm not nor have ever been in the military, but if I were in your shoes, I'd look for something where I could put that PhD to use. I'm not sure how relevant signals intelligence would be to that, since I'd think the job is more deploying already developed systems rather than doing any sort of development yourself. The Analytical Scientist position might be relevant, but again, I'm really just speculating here.

Also, you have discussed this with your wife, right?

[Brother Oni]

And please don't try to paint it as some sunshine job. Almost every position will feature some stress far beyond what a normal person has. And if you don't think so, then you are just deluding yourself. There's been studies that show it.
In the long run. Something will happen.

While Jonzac can correct me, I'm really sure an 8M000 (Postal service), an 4Y0X1 (Dental assistant), a 3E1X1 (Heating, Ventilation, AC, and Refrigeration) or a 6F0X1 (Financial Management & Comptroller) are not going to be put under the extreme stress you believe it will.

While I certainly agree that the military isn't for everybody and some AFSCs are incredible high stress (eg 1T2X1 - Pararescue), the AF isn't the Army or the Marines.

If you don't believe me, Wikipedia has what appears to be a fairly comprehensive list of 'jobs' in the USAF (link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_Specialty_Code)).

[Lentrax]

Former enlisted AF here.

Bear in mind that this is the military. We may not expect it in certain job codes, but on occasion, s*** does hit the fan. More so these days. That said, I knew what I was in for when I signed up, and got about what I expected out of it.

And the Air Force may not be the Army, or the Marines, we still run combat ops. And just like the Army or the Marines, many of our jobs aren't frontline fighting roles, but we all support the whole.

[Jonzac]

Yes, some jobs are more stressful than others. I'm an Aircraft/Munitions Maintenance Officer so I am used to/expect a higher stress level than a personnelist...however, I've not received a full wing to bed down at a deployed location like them.

With your PhD you will probably be directed at the 63X slots and you're eligible to teach at the Academy later on if you want.

Feel free to ask any questions.

[danzibr]

Thanks for the responses!

And I just got my AFOQT results! Been checking the website like a hawk. Here they are (all percentiles)
Pilot 87
Navigator 96
Academic aptitude 99
Verbal 98
Quantitative 99

Feeling good about it! That lowish pilot score hopefully won't matter since I'm too old to be a pilot anyway. And I'm applying to a non-rated board.

EDIT: @Grinner, oh yeah, I meant to respond to you and forgot. Yeah, we talked about it :P She's my biggest supporter.

[Brother Oni]

EDIT: @Grinner, oh yeah, I meant to respond to you and forgot. Yeah, we talked about it :P She's my biggest supporter.

I think she just wants to be swept off her feet and carried away by a man in dress uniform, like at the end of An Officer and a Gentleman. :smalltongue:

[Flickerdart]

And I just got my AFOQT results! Been checking the website like a hawk. Here they are (all percentiles)
Pilot 87
Navigator 96
Academic aptitude 99
Verbal 98
Quantitative 99

Is that "99% right answers" or "better than 99% of everyone who took the test"? Because the latter is pretty damn impressive.

[danzibr]

I think she just wants to be swept off her feet and carried away by a man in dress uniform, like at the end of An Officer and a Gentleman. :smalltongue:
Hehe, some day! I hope.

Is that "99% right answers" or "better than 99% of everyone who took the test"? Because the latter is pretty damn impressive.
The latter. And thanks!

[Crow]

Only advice I will give is keep your job at the high school; and if you don't, stay the hell off the African continent.

[danzibr]

Only advice I will give is keep your job at the high school; and if you don't, stay the hell off the African continent.
Huh...

Well, I plan on teaching until I go to OTS. You mean keep it long-term? If so, sorry to not take your advice.

[AMFV]

One thing I would say is not to necessarily focus only on the most technical jobs, the ones that your high scores get you into. My experience is that those can be good. But they aren't always the end-all be-all. When I enlisted in 2006 into the Marines I was a 2621 (Signals Intelligence Analyst), I loved the military and hated my job. It felt like I was just an office drone with a strict dress code (even in a deploying line unit), I certainly did collection missions but I was never all that happy.

When I came back into the military (admittedly only part time), I went as a 13F, or Forward Observer (National Guard this time around) attached to an Infantry Unit. I have never been happier with the military than I am now, the people are better, the officers are generally of higher caliber, and even when I'm doing dumb stuff, it feels better some how, because I feel like my job is the actual military rather than something fake (although yes Intelligence is a vital job, but it didn't always feel that way).

My advice would be talk to some other officers in those job fields, and the enlisted. Those are the people you're going to be dealing with, if like Intel, they're mostly backstabbing jerks, and elitist nerds that wouldn't be fun for you to hang with, then go some other route. The thing that is going to matter most is the people, even on a technical job, it's finding a group of people that you can really love to work with that'll make your military experience better.

As a note I'm not sure my advice is entirely sound, since I'm enlisted, and not an officer, but I assume the fundamentals still apply.

[danzibr]

Thanks for the response.

Yeah, that's a tough one. I've spoken directly with an intelligence officer and a space operations officer. Both seemed to like their jobs quite a bit. The space operations officer seemed like more of an office worker. In fact, the deployments are even home deployments (not sure if that's what they're really called), just stay on base and put it a lot of hours.

Oh right, for it being a tough one, hard to judge the environment. I imagine it even varies from base to base. Regardless, I'm nearly done filling out my TFOT, need to have another close look at the career fields. Next steps, interview and medical in late July/early August!

[AMFV]

Thanks for the response.

Yeah, that's a tough one. I've spoken directly with an intelligence officer and a space operations officer. Both seemed to like their jobs quite a bit. The space operations officer seemed like more of an office worker. In fact, the deployments are even home deployments (not sure if that's what they're really called), just stay on base and put it a lot of hours.


I'd mostly look to see what they're like. If they're enjoying their job and they seem like they'd like the type of people that you'd like to work with. I would say that At Home deployments might suck worse than outbound deployments. I know that my second deployment, in a much cushier base, sucked a lot worse, because I didn't feel like I was involved, it felt kind of weird. And in that case you'd be seeing your family and then you'd be not able to spend any time with them. Which could be worse than if you can put them out of your mind when focusing on the mission. At least it would be for me. But it really depends on your personality.



Oh right, for it being a tough one, hard to judge the environment. I imagine it even varies from base to base. Regardless, I'm nearly done filling out my TFOT, need to have another close look at the career fields. Next steps, interview and medical in late July/early August!

It'll even vary section to section, depending on who your direct supervisor is. I would just take a close look, and I mean if you like the technical fields certainly don't avoid them, my advice is more not to discount the less technical ones just because you have the aptitude for the others as well. Since I did that, and it wound up not being my best decision.

[danzibr]

Ahh, what you said reminded me of something. I'm not sure about Marines and enlisted, but for Air Force officers, a big part of the AFOQT is a personality test, and they supposedly place people in careers based on their personalities as well as their aptitudes. Maybe they'll look at my personality and say, "Nope, no intel for you," even though in my head it'd be a good job.

[AMFV]

Ahh, what you said reminded me of something. I'm not sure about Marines and enlisted, but for Air Force officers, a big part of the AFOQT is a personality test, and they supposedly place people in careers based on their personalities as well as their aptitudes. Maybe they'll look at my personality and say, "Nope, no intel for you," even though in my head it'd be a good job.

Fair enough, and now that I think about it, I believe that Marine Officers are assigned job fields rather than choosing them. Although I think they get to pick their preferences. So that may be the same for you. You get to pick top 3 or something and they give you whatever they want to (although they may try to get what you want). I'm not sure if that's the case here. But it definitely sounds like they've got something planned. If they let you pick top-3, I would suggest this: Look at where the openings are (if you can figure that out, Air Force Times will help), pick 1 dream job, and 1 that's got a bunch of openings. So that way you'll probably get one, if they don't let you pick top-3 then you could be stuck and you'll just have to make the best of whatever you end up with. But that's a good introduction to the military anyways.