Familiars with goodberries

[Dalebert]

Would you let someone give a standing order to their familiar to administer a goodberry if they fall unconscious? Why or why not? Is a standard familiar too dumb for such a standing order? Does it lack sufficient manipulative abilities (no hands)? Seems like this is a no-brainer with regard to special warlock familiars. They're quite intelligent and some have hands.

What if it was much smarter than a regular familiar?
Such as Essilios, the super-smart raven that you can obtain in 4-1. Ravens definitely manipulate things. There are extensive examples of them even using tools.

[tieren]

I think its ok to order them to put one in your mouth if they are able (lemur?).

The problem is going to be if the DM says you need to be conscious to swallow.

[Theodoxus]

I'd be fine with it. But then I'm very much ok with 'rule of cool'. If one of my players ever thought of doing it, I'd be surprised though...

TBH, my cleric (who has goodberry through Magic Initiate) kind of has a "Varsuvius' Raven" in terms of goodberry. I just assume I cast it first thing in the morning, and the berries (we typically think of them as bananas or plums) just sit in a pocket until I remember about them...

None of the familiar having folk in either the game I play or the game I run has asked about keeping a small stock of berries on hand for their Nurse Nightengale familiar...

[Mr.Moron]

You could probably teach a regular animal to do such a thing. As another poster pointed out it's not so much placing that's the problem but the chewing and the swallowing. Might work easier with a potion or something.

[hymer]

Would you let someone give a standing order to their familiar to administer a goodberry if they fall unconscious? Why or why not?[/SPOILER]

Oh, absolutely. It's their familiar, they can tell it whatevert hey like.

[QUOTE]Is a standard familiar too dumb for such a standing order? Does it lack sufficient manipulative abilities (no hands)? Seems like this is a no-brainer with regard to special warlock familiars. They're quite intelligent and some have hands.

What if it was much smarter than a regular familiar?

By all means, give the order. I might well let the familiar carry it out, too.

But it wouldn't work as the player probably hoped. Goodberries are not adminstered; they are taken with an action. That's the key weakness of the spell, which is extremely good. Taking away this weakness would be a mistake, as far as I'm concerned - familiar or no familiar.

[Dalebert]

Yeah, I guess whether you allow the administration of a goodberry at all to an unconscious character is its own issue. Every DM I've played with allows it. The idea I've always gone with is you put the berry between their teeth and you press their jaw shut. The juices flow out and down the throat just like a potion would and a potion is allowed, only presumably a lot less fluid and thus less chance of choking. I guess the fluid of a goodberry or a potion starts to do just enough healing from absorption in the mouth to make them conscious enough to swallow? Seems as good a fluff as any to explain it.

That said, I could a DM saying "no" for that reason. My raven (for instance) could put the berry in the mouth but would it need to press my jaw shut? That might be more difficult for a small bird. Maybe it could bite the goodberry with its beak over my mouth and feed the juices to me like it feeds its young and then shove the rest of the berry in there.

I'd allow it. *shrug*

[RulesJD]

What my Wizard does:

Rigs each of his Health Potions with a small cloth webbing to act as a cradle. Then, direct the Owl to smash the potion into the mouth of the downed person. The glass in the mouth makes it only heal 2d4, no +2, and no verbal components until taking an action to clear out the glass in the mouth. I've yet to see a DM not be okay with that.

[hymer]

I've yet to see a DM not be okay with that.

I suppose I could send you a picture. :smallwink:

[RickAllison]

What my Wizard does:

Rigs each of his Health Potions with a small cloth webbing to act as a cradle. Then, direct the Owl to smash the potion into the mouth of the downed person. The glass in the mouth makes it only heal 2d4, no +2, and no verbal components until taking an action to clear out the glass in the mouth. I've yet to see a DM not be okay with that.

How a raven can administer a potion:

1) Have a pouch attached to leg to carry it.

2) Grab/stab cork with beak and remove.

3) Raven tilts leg so potion flows into mouth of target.

Slightly more involved due to pouch preparation, but it works great. Even better since my wizard is an UA Artifucer, so his familiar is a great ambulance.

Edit: The way I would see a raven or owl administer a Goodberry would be to crush it and throw it up into the target's mouth, just like for chicks!

[Dalebert]

This video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JY8-gP3Sw_8) is about how smart they are, but I'm posting it to show how well they manipulate sticks as a tool.

[BW022]

Why not?

It is an extremely dangerous thing to try. You need to have your familiar out -- meaning it is subject to attacks or area of effect spells. It has to move over to a fallen PC -- likely with an enemy right there since they just dropped the PC, subjecting it to all the attacks from that monster. It has to wait until its initiative. It only has 1hp. It may have issues provoking attacks as it moves away. Finally... what has it accomplished? The character is lying on ground with 1hp.

If initiative doesn't work out well... the monster will attack the PC (prone) and likely drop them again. Even in the best case... either another PC is going to get a cure spell into him or he is going to have to stand and, using an action, heal themselves or drink a potion.

This is pretty much desperation time at low levels. As such... why not. Nice to keep the party alive. At mid-to-high levels it is pointless and the familiar is likely to be a smear or healing the person to 1hp is more likely to put them at risk the monster is going to really nail them. Better waiting for some serious heal to come before joining the fight again.

In many cases, far better for the familiar to deliver a touch spell -- if the caster has a cure, or just use a healing word.

[RickAllison]

Why not?

It is an extremely dangerous thing to try. You need to have your familiar out -- meaning it is subject to attacks or area of effect spells. It has to move over to a fallen PC -- likely with an enemy right there since they just dropped the PC, subjecting it to all the attacks from that monster. It has to wait until its initiative. It only has 1hp. It may have issues provoking attacks as it moves away. Finally... what has it accomplished? The character is lying on ground with 1hp.

If initiative doesn't work out well... the monster will attack the PC (prone) and likely drop them again. Even in the best case... either another PC is going to get a cure spell into him or he is going to have to stand and, using an action, heal themselves or drink a potion.

This is pretty much desperation time at low levels. As such... why not. Nice to keep the party alive. At mid-to-high levels it is pointless and the familiar is likely to be a smear or healing the person to 1hp is more likely to put them at risk the monster is going to really nail them. Better waiting for some serious heal to come before joining the fight again.

In many cases, far better for the familiar to deliver a touch spell -- if the caster has a cure, or just use a healing word.

Well, a Chainlock would be great for that! His pet doesn't have to stop being invisible to administer it.

[Dalebert]

It is an extremely dangerous thing to try.

Nah. Most of the dangers you described are exaggerated. Having 1 hp means you're stable and able to take actions again including disengage or Misty Step or whatever. The enemy might not still be there. Why stand by an unconscious person with no AoO after all? If he does, good chance it's because your allies are still threatening him. If he's smart he might target the familiar but not necessarily if bigger threats are near. Even if he is smart, that he would expect a familiar to be able to revive you seems slim. Familiars are fairly disposable, especially if it comes down to them or you. I'd sacrifice my familiar for the chance to be awake and able to take actions vs. still down or even just to have my death saves reset if the enemy immediately drops me again. Also, it's nice if my familiar gets me back up and saves the actions of my teammates. And the threat of an enemy targeting you while your down right after being revived is no different whether it's by your familiar or by a healing word and I've found it to be a rare thing. As I said, there's not much reason for an enemy to stick around. They've likely already used any remaining movement to go after another target.