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View Full Version : Body of War + Share spells =Cheese?



Zim
2007-06-29, 11:44 AM
I was looking at the spell "Body of War." Essentially, this turns the caster (range: self) into a warforged titan for a while. That's a size huge stomping mech of badassery for those who don't know. Not a bad spell I says to myself. I then realized that a character with a companion creature with the share spell feature could create 2 warforged titans, as long as they stayed within 5' of each other. Alternately, you could just cast it on the familiar/animal companion/special mount separately.

Does this seem wrong to anyone other than me? I will probably never use this trick as a player or allow it IMC, but it seems just a little broken to me.

SurlySeraph
2007-06-29, 12:42 PM
That doesn't strike me as too bad. If it were on the entire party, I'd protest, but just on you and your familiar can't be too overpowered. The main reason I'm not concerned is that Share Spells can be used for far worse cheese - Pun-Pun relies heavily on it.

Kizara
2007-06-29, 03:47 PM
That doesn't strike me as too bad. If it were on the entire party, I'd protest, but just on you and your familiar can't be too overpowered. The main reason I'm not concerned is that Share Spells can be used for far worse cheese - Pun-Pun relies heavily on it.

Elaborate please.

Fax Celestis
2007-06-29, 03:49 PM
Couple with a Bracelet of Spell-Sharing (DMG-II) for extra awesome.

Jothki
2007-06-29, 03:56 PM
Does Body of War prevent you from casting spells while it's in effect? If that's the case, being able to cast it on your familiar might give you all the benefits with none of the penalties, since you might be able to use it as a platform (probably with a ride/concentration check to cast spells) while it attacks.

lord_khaine
2007-06-29, 03:59 PM
does the spell actualy improve your bab? else i could see this being less usefull it sounds.
oh and what about hp btw?

Cruiser1
2007-06-29, 04:20 PM
I was looking at the spell "Body of War." Essentially, this turns the caster (range: self) into a warforged titan for a while. I then realized that a character with a companion creature with the share spell feature could create 2 warforged titans, as long as they stayed within 5' of each other.
I don't think the above is allowed. The "share spells" ability of the Wizard's familiar and Druid's animal companion only allows spells that take a specific external target to affect both you and your familiar at the same time. For those spells with a target of just "you" (like the above) you can choose to make that spell affect you OR your familiar, but not both. See the rules on familiars (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#familiars) or rules on animal companions (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/druid.htm#theDruidsAnimalCompanion) and scroll down to the "share spells" item for details.

Edit: Actually it looks like this is allowed (see post below). The "additionally... may cast" clause implies you may choose to have a "you" spell only affect your familiar if you want, but you can also have it affect both of you. :smallsmile:

RTGoodman
2007-06-29, 08:07 PM
Share Spells (Ex): At the druid’s option, she may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) she casts upon herself also affect her animal companion. The animal companion must be within 5 feet of her at the time of casting to receive the benefit. If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the animal companion if the companion moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the animal again, even if it returns to the druid before the duration expires.

Additionally, the druid may cast a spell with a target of “You” on her animal companion (as a touch range spell) instead of on herself. A druid and her animal companion can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the companion’s type (animal).

Emphases mine.

The first part seems to make it clear that, as long the animal companion stays within 5 feet of the caster, the spell affects both (since it says that "she may have any spell she casts upon herself also effect her animal companion"). Certainly casting a spell with "Target: You" is casting a spell on yourself.

The part about a spell affecting the companion rather than the caster also says "may" do so and therefore is purely optional.

I don't know the specifics of the spell (I don't know what book it's in), but RAW (unless I'm completely wrong), as long as the animal companion stays within 5 feet of the caster, it affects them both.

ZeroNumerous
2007-06-29, 08:31 PM
Yes, Body of War does increase your BAB, HP, and base STR. It's much like the many Cleric 'Personal' spells.

ClericofPhwarrr
2007-06-29, 08:41 PM
Yes, Body of War does increase your BAB, HP, and base STR. It's much like the many Cleric 'Personal' spells.

Incorrect. A minor quote from the spell: "Your class and level, hit points, alignment, base attack bonus, and base saving throw bonuses all remain the same."

You also can't cast spells while this spell is in effect (unlike Righteous Might, for example).

Still, any spell that lets a wizard instantly take a fighter's job (the one thing a fighter can do, drop enemy HPs) and do it better is not well thought out by WotC. Then again, I also hate how Knock/Charm Person/Silence/Invisibility make rogues effectively worthless if the wizard's player doesn't check himself.

Ramza00
2007-06-29, 11:40 PM
An old trick is

+Wizard with Familiar
+Has levels in the Archmage Prestige class for Arcane Reach (or cleric with Divine Reach)
+Cast a chained buff spell on your familiar as a main target. (Familiar makes a personal range spell touch, arcane reach makes it a ranged touch attack but not a ray, chain makes the ranged touch attack effect multiple people.)
+Choose allies as secondary targets of the buff spell through chain.

You have now cast a personal range spell (such as polymorph) on all your allies at once.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-06-29, 11:47 PM
Contingency Body of War upon my casting Tenser's Transformation?

Now I've got the warrior's BAB and HP, then the body of war goes off automatically to turn me into a titan.

Tor the Fallen
2007-06-29, 11:58 PM
Contingency Body of War upon my casting Tenser's Transformation?

Now I've got the warrior's BAB and HP, then the body of war goes off automatically to turn me into a titan.

Or just blast both those on your familiar.

Either way, it's hideously cheesy.

Fizban
2007-06-30, 02:42 AM
One thing to remember with all of this: a familiar only has half of it's master's crappy hp. It probably won't survive more than two hits in melee, and would have to be buffed into oblivion to have enough AC to avoid being hit.

lord_khaine
2007-06-30, 03:42 AM
and a familiar have worse BAB than its master, so unless there is thrown a tensers into the mix it wont hit anything (neither will the wizard for that matter)

still this spell would be exellent for a eldrich knight

Tor the Fallen
2007-06-30, 03:44 AM
and a familiar have worse BAB than its master, so unless there is thrown a tensers into the mix it wont hit anything (neither will the wizard for that matter)

still this spell would be exellent for a eldrich knight

Actually, it uses the master's BAB; which also happens to be the worst.

Buut with only a handful of buffing spells, you've turned your familiar into a real power house.