Tristalt help? [3.PF]

[Tanuki Tales]

So, after several life upheavals (single now, quit my job, moved 800 miles south), I'm under the same roof as my brother, who's going to run a solo Eberron game with me [we live in Hawthorne, I know no one down here and he's made no friends since he came down here a year ago].

Since he isn't terribly well versed in running games for less than a party of four, we're going full bore with a tristalt character to bridge the gap.

I'm currently having a mental block on how I want to build my character and honestly haven't actually played in years, so I'm hoping you guys can help me.

Generation rules
One free 18, but can't keep any rolled during generation, or keep all rolled, but no free 18.
Roll 4d6, drop the lowest, but minimum result allowed is 10.
Level 7 starting
Normal wealth by level
Any race, template, class etc. allowed


I do know that I want one part of my tristalt to be a Teramach (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?286983-3-5-Base-Class-quot-I-want-to-live-inside-a-castle-built-of-your-agony!-quot), but I can't make up my mind on how to reinforce/expand upon what that class brings to the table.

Many thanks in advance! :smallsmile:

[Jack_Simth]

Well, you've got the position of probably needing to squeeze all four basic party roles into one character. It's actually doable. You don't have much in the way of margins, so it's also a good idea to arrange for a few extra bodies. You might consider, say, Summoner and Druid (or Cleric, using the Pathfinder Animal domain to pick up an animal companion, and then fixing the level adjustment on it via feats; there's also a couple of Oracle mysteries that have the option of an Animal Companion as part of their revelations, and a few other ways to go) to have disposable meatshields available. Possibly also Leadership to get a support character that hangs back and buffs in battle, or maybe just a couple of zombies / Dominated minions.

Picking Teramach is a dangerous choice, as it puts you on the front lines. Viable, don't get me wrong, but meatshields have a habit of kicking it in battle, and you don't have a party backing you up to cast Revenance / Revivify / Last Breath / Raise Dead / Reincarnate / whatever. The dice are likely to catch up with you, going that route.

[Tanuki Tales]

Leadership would probably be doable; I've nailed it in everyone I interact with's head how borked that feat is, but I've also mentioned how it'd be fine if it was split into two feats and didn't allow infinite loops. Otherwise, I understand action economy can be a serious pain.

I've always really wanted to give a go playing a Teramach and I figured that since any race options (including monsters and templates) coupled with a setting where there's a whole sovereign nation of things that go bump in the night, meant there's room to swing making this lightly cheesed enough to survive the trials.

[Krazzman]

I am currently running Hell's Vengeance with only my wife as player.

We used the following rules:

Tristalt (She choose Clericof Zon-Kuthon/Investigator/Tyrant[Antipaladin])
2 Traits + 1 Campaign Trait
Triple HD+ Con-Mod as starting HP.
Buffed the Race she is playing to have ~20 Race Points + Fast Healing 1
Introduced Mythic rules to the game.


As well as giving a fairly high powered Stat Array this lead to the first book being easy (seriously spoken there were only 2 fights that outnumbered her and only the encounter with the hound archon was anywhere near fatal). Mainly thanks to good base defenses as well as some really lucky crits.

In Hell's vengeance you get a "supporting" NPC (Cimri Staelish) that is functioning as a bad influence on the PC's, pushing them to more and more evil stuff. Your brother should make good use of such characters.

Also Leadership (or Vile Leadership if evil) is pretty much mandatory.

Good luck.

[Tanuki Tales]

Two templates spring to mind, though the latter is something I'd use more likely.

Elite Creature - This template is from the Monster Guide for the World of Warcraft tabletop game. It's +2-+3 CR based on the base creatures HD, gives a Strength and Dex boost, the save boosting feats and multiplies the creature's HP by 4.

Soul Locked Creature - This is a mini-template from Heroes of Horror that makes the creature afflicted constantly return from the grave after X amount of time, until a certain condition determined by the GM is met (if one exists). It doesn't affect the creature's ECL, since it doesn't change their combat or other in-game effectiveness, just makes it so they can't permanently die.

[JKTrickster]

Is there a type of character you want to play?

I mean there are plenty of Trisalt suggestions (especially for a solo campaign) but nothing I can think of off the top of my head works with the Teramach.

The problem is that the Teramach essentially disables any of your characters higher-order brain functions. After a certain point, you'll literally become the Hulk (the uncontrollable kind, not the Bruce Banner or even the controllable rage kind).

So spells? Impossible. Most Roleplaying that isn't Intimidate? Also impossible. Diplomacy with the king? Going to end badly. Etc. etc. etc.

But this all depends on the game you wanna play. It doesn't matter if you can't Diplomacy if you want to play the rampaging Barbarian from the north who crushes his opponents' skulls with one hand and forges a new blood empire in his wake.

~~~

That being said, I think the best Tri-Salt for a solo campaign is:

Celesital Commander Summoner (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/summoner/archetypes/rite-publishing---summoner-archetypes/celestial-commander) | Bard | Oracle.

Choose to put an 18 in Charisma. You have passable HD, Charisma synergy out the wazoo, and plenty of skillpoints to cover all the needed roles. Bard means you can always be the face and talk you way out of things if fighting isn't an option. If you ever need a spell you can't cast, go look at your summons. See if they can help out. (Summon Good Monster adds so many good options its not even funny. If you allow 3.5 books, they also add summons to your list automatically as well).

If you have to fight? You summon things to protect you and have Divine spells to back yourself up. Depending on the stats you roll, you can even choose an Gish-like Oracle Mystery like Metal. Or you can choose one that gives you Charisma to AC for more Cha synergy. Then you use Inspire Courage for your Bard and turn your Summons into terrifying creatures.

I prefer Celestial Commander if you're playing Good - the focus on Summon Monster means you can have plenty of critters running around to protect you. An Ediolon pales in comparison to the access of higher Summon Monster spells and you can get more action economy out of multiple critters.

~~~

But that's a VERY specific type of character. I doubt you actually would want to play him though - simply because you chose Teramach as what you wanted.

To be honest, you might just double down on the melee concept. There just aren't many classes that go well with Teramach that provide outside options. The Teramach just pigeon holes you into one concept - its strength is using that one concept to answer ALL the problems. Like the class says, its a hammer that smashes all the problems equally.

[Necromancy]

ANY template you say?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm

[Tanuki Tales]

ANY template you say?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm

That is the equivalent of a 16th level character.

I'm more of a beatstick guy than a minion master, to be terribly honest, so the other thing I'd be looking at is Synthesist Summoner/Paladin/X.

I kind of just want to beat things in the face. :smallredface:

[JKTrickster]

I mean you're still beating things in the face. At the end of the day, you get to roll for the monster. And you "command" it to go somewhere, which is basically like how you decide where YOUR character goes and attacks.

The major difference is action economy.

At the end of the day, unless you're always fighting 1 v 1, you're going to be at an disadvantage. It doesn't matter what you choose really - unless you make yourself flat out immune to everything, you're going to get surrounded, flanked, out maneuvered, and beat down upon.

That being said, I would suggest:

Synthesist Summoner / Paladin / Warlord (Path of War class).

Alternatively, you can choose something with more casting and a Cha focus if you want. Or even something like a Bard and pick up Cha to Attack and Damage (either with an Archetype from Pathfinder, or a feat from DnD 3.5).

[Bobby Baratheon]

Adding warlock and binder into the tristalt mix could be interesting - binder gives you a LOT of options and allows for a rather wide range of playstyle (including summoning, once you bind the right vestiges), especially with other classes thrown in. Warlock would give you an infinite ranged attack that can be tweaked to do different things, and 24 hour buffs (including 24 hour flight, nice skill boosts, etc).

How many feats will you be getting?

Also, with regards to templates, consider Feral and Lolth-touched. Nothing quite massive physical boosts and impressive NA. Alternatively (or additionally. your choice) throw in some Dragonspawn. If you're ignoring LA, I'd go Red or Blue - Red has superior stat boosts but Blue gives you a marginally more useful energy type for the breath attack, and both give you a free level of sorcerer casting, which would (with some shenanigans) allow you to enter anima mage on the binder side and eldritch theurge on the warlock side. Half Ogre is another awesome template if you're using a medium sized base race - it's something like a +12 to strength IIRC.

IMO, that would be a powerful and self sufficient build (binder can get you unlimited healing if you build right) and has numerous options for virtually any scenario without being so overpowered that the game loses its fun. Especially if you get a summoning class as the third class in the tristalt.

[meemaas]

Based on your choice so far, I would suggest looking into the Daevic class (search Akashic Mysteries on this forum to find the playtest version) and making sure to note that it is effectively Incarnum and should be treated as such for the purposes of the Teramachs Rage. If you can't swing that, then Incarnate with a two level Totemist dip will get you all the Incarnum soul melds and offer you flexibility that doesn't get turned off during Rage.

For the last side, depending on how you really envision your character, I would suggest either Changeling Half-Minotaur into Warshaper with the obligatory Barbarian dip for Pounce, or for a more all-around viable character Swordsage or Stalker (ToB or Pow respectively. Look for the Brutal Slayer archetype for the Stalker)

[dascarletm]

So you want to be doing the bashing eh?

Warlord(Path of War) / Sorcerer(Pick a bloodline thematic and helpful for melee) / X

X is something to focus on the roleplaying part of your character. In combat you are a master with the blade, with potent sorcery to back it up. Out of combat you can pick up unchained rogue or perhaps bard. Both give plenty of social interraction options.

Take leadership at 7 (or 6 if using DnD feat progression) and grab a cleric or oracle. They will provide buffs and heals.

With gestalt, and more importantly with tristalt pick an active class (in my suggestion the warlord) and a passive class (sorcerer with correct spell choice).

I like this option because you will spend most of combat initiating maneuvers while benefiting from precasted sorcerer buffs. Out of combat you will have your X class to shine, while utilizing sorcerer spells to solve problems beyond the reach of RP.

[Necromancy]

Tristalt isn't gonna make you as effective as 4 characters no matter what you do.

Need to beef up char to compensate. Taking paragon as one of your three would give you ridiculous stats but that may not be how he wants to run it.


Your DM into mythic?

[dascarletm]

Either way the DM will have to compensate for the fact that there is only one player. Getting NPCs to help/leadership will help, but nothing will save you short of the DM preparing well. Honestly I've run 1 player campaigns and it isn't too difficult to adjust.

[Tanuki Tales]

Need to beef up char to compensate. Taking paragon as one of your three would give you ridiculous stats but that may not be how he wants to run it.

Once again, not to be rude, but that template is +15 CR and this is a level 7 character.



Your DM into mythic?

No, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's off the table.

[Necromancy]

Just because it's a high template doesn't mean it couldn't be put out in leveled format as one of your 3 classes. Still it may be overpowered.

Pathfinder mythic may be a better fit as it doesn't take any levels up and gives you a big power boost over 10 levels that the DM directly controls. There's a lot of nifty things I'm there for melee that you can completely build around. Like the 6th tier champion power that lets you dispel magic by hitting it with unarmed strikes...

[JKTrickster]

Tristalt isn't gonna make you as effective as 4 characters no matter what you do.

Need to beef up char to compensate. Taking paragon as one of your three would give you ridiculous stats but that may not be how he wants to run it.


Your DM into mythic?

This is not necessarily true. The build I outlined above with Celestial Summoner | Bard | Oracle is an entire party by itself.

This is especially true if it is 3.PF and not just PF. Take Bardic Knack and the Jack of All Trades feat. You know have access to almost any skill you can care for. Alternatively, you can pick up Nymph's Kiss and just have lots and lots of skill points (Bard does give 6 + Int per level after all).

Take Dual Cursed Oracle. If you're allowing something like the Teramach, it is possible that the DM will allow some of the 3rd party Cruses. Merciful provides Lay on Hands for easy Swift Action healing that has uses that scales off of Cha. Frenetic allows you to roll twice and take the better result for Initiative - this is godly if you are a solo character. When you're outnumbered, the last thing you need is to go last.

Pick up the Fey Foudling feat - with Lay On Hands, you're wonderfully hard to kill now.

Pick up Savage Bard and treat it as an Archetype. Now you have good Fort save progression and good Will Save progression.

Pick up the Noble Scion feat and take the Lore Mystery for the Sidestep revelation. Congratulations, you've effectively made Dexterity useless. This makes rolling for stats much, much easier. You only need Cha >>>> Con = Int >> Wis >>>>>> Str, Dex.

If you're allowing 3.5 feats (and you are since its 3.PF), all of your feats can basically be Inspire Courage optimization feats. Choose a race like Silverbrow Human and your Dragonfire Inspiration isn't fire, but cold damage - slightly less common to resist. Feats like Words of Creation, Dragonfire Inspiration, Song of Heart, etc. will turn all of your Standard Action summons into terrifying beasts. You don't need to take any special summoning feats because Celestial Commander takes care of that. You can save metamgic feats or divine feats for the oracle until higher level. At low levels, your summons + optimized Inspire Courage should take on all the tougher encounters for you.

Take a couple of flaws to round out your feat selection at level one. Depending on how good your rolls are, you can completely eschew combat yourself and take Noncombatant and Vulnerable.

Focus your spells on battlefield control and protecting yourself. Or buffing your summons. Or whatever. You have 3 spell lists to customize your spell selection from. Even though its all fixed, spontaneous casters, you'll do more than okay.

Worse goes to worse - go for Paragon Surge on Oracle. Congrats, you have every spell in the game.


There bam. A single Tri-Salt character that is at least as strong as a 4 man party. Remember if you're adventuring by yourself, you should progress in XP much faster - standard CR is built with a 4 man party. If you solve an equivalent CR encounter, you should get even more XP for doing it solo.

EDIT:

Any concerns about actions spent just requires a really specific ordering.

Summon Monster on first turn. Since you're 7th level, you can Bardic Music with your Move Action. Apply those swift action boosts to your Bardic Music with your swift action (duh) and everything's gravy. Your Summoned critters can immediately start moving and attacking on your turn when you summon them. Next turn, you maintain as a Bardic Music as a free action. You can choose to cast spells, summon more monsters, whatever you want.

[Necromancy]

covering all party roles does not compensate for the loss of action economy.

[JKTrickster]

Summoning does.