E6, Gestalt Approach Feats?

[SovelsAtaask]

I'm planning on running Pathfinder E6 or maybe E8 game, probably using the Gestalt Approach, but I'm having a bit of a problem. I don't have the experience to know what an appropriate, balanced feat chain to gain class features and pseudo-multiclass might look like and I can't find anything online. For those not aware of what the Gestalt Approach is, here it is:


The Gestalt Approach dictates that if an ability can be learned under 6th level, then it’s learnable via some chain of feats. The Gestalt Approach usually means all WotC sources are available, as well as a few extra feats to provide ways to learn class features. These can be done on an ad-hoc basis for a given player or they can be gathered from sources like the Book of Unusual Feats. The Gestalt theory is the one used in playtesting.

Anyone that has played with this rule, how'd it work out for you? How many feats should be equivalent to one level? Any chance that someone who's made these sort of feat chains before could share their notes?

[johnbragg]

I'm planning on running Pathfinder E6 or maybe E8 game, probably using the Gestalt Approach, but I'm having a bit of a problem. I don't have the experience to know what an appropriate, balanced feat chain to gain class features and pseudo-multiclass might look like and I can't find anything online. For those not aware of what the Gestalt Approach is, here it is:

I'm not sure you have the core E6 concept down. After you hit 6th level, every 5000 xp you get a feat. The list of "feats" gets augmented to include pretty much all class features, sometimes including 7th-8th level abilities selectively.


Anyone that has played with this rule, how'd it work out for you? How many feats should be equivalent to one level? Any chance that someone who's made these sort of feat chains before could share their notes?

You're talking about "feat chains", which isn't really an E6 concept. But I suppose I can oblige anyway.

For a fightery-type who wants Improved Critical, that would require the following list of feats, some of which I'm about to make up out of thin air.
Advanced Fighting (Capstone Feat) requires +6 BAB
Improved BAB (requires Advanced Fighting, can be taken multiple times)
Improved BAB
Improved Critical.

Alternately, you can rule that Improved Critical isn't really something that requires a +8 BAB in an E6 world, so just houserule the requirement down to +6. And the same goes for Improved Uncanny Dodge--6 Rogue levels plus a Capstone Feat qualifies you.

I believe there is an E6 variant using gestalt, where basically character levels 7-12 get you a level of gestalt. (Malcolm the Mage would go from being a Wizard 6 to being say a Monk 1//Wizard 1/Wizard 5.)

[Seppo87]

Don't go with levels. Not all levels are equal. Do not set specific numbers. If you make a first level barbarian worth 5 feats there is no way a fighter level can be worth 5 feats!

I.e. one feat for Pounce is extremely good and it can be obtained by simply choosing a first level barbarian feature.
In the meantime a Fighter level consists of 1 bonus feat.

Instead, make chains for specific features, depending on how you see fit.

I.e. Rage

1) 1/day gain +2str -2ac for 3+con rounds
2) either gain +2str +2 con -2ac OR +2str no change in ac
3) stats bonus goes to +4str+4con or +4str and AC goes to +2
4) bonus to saves while raging (either will or reflexes)
5) if you chose the con route, you gain the benefit of the reckless rage feat. If you went the frenzy route, you get the extra attack

6) rage lasts 2 rounds longer and you get an extra use per day. Must select this twice to advance in the chain. Can choose up to 5 times.

7) stat bonus goes up of another 2 points. Save (and Ac bonus if present) increase by 1

Extra rage and extend rage do not exist.
Feat 6 counts as both for requirements.
Actual rage counts as 1+2+3+4+5 for selecting 6 and 7


Too slow? Combine 1+2 and 3+4

[Godskook]

My current plan on how to do E(X)+Gestalt is this:

1.Your HD is equal to either your amount of racial HD, max levels of a single class or sum of both(you can vary this rule depending on how you want to handle RHD).

2.You can take class levels from any class, but only up to your HD cap. All class-features are based on class level, not HD(including maneuvers and stances).

3a.Each HD you gain has a set value(d4-d12) based on the RHD or class that progressed your HD. Whenever you gain a new class level, you may exchange one of your current HD for the new class's. Your HDs determine your theoretical max HP. For instance, if you've taken Barbarian 4 and Warblade 3 in an E6 game, your max_rolled_HP from HD would be 6d12, or 72(before Con).

3b.Each class level you attain, you roll HP, and add that to your rolled_HP stat. Your total HP is = Max(rolled_HP, max_rolled_HP) + Con*HD.

4.Each HD grants 2+int skillpoints. Each class level grants the base value minus 2.

5.Not sure how I want Feat and Ability Score bonuses to be handled, either by HD or class level.

6.Saves and BAB are fractional per class level, but capped at the maximum for your HD. So at 7 HD, your can't have more than 7 BAB.

XP prices aren't something I've set, but I'll say this: a flat XP per non-HD class level encourages casters/focused-class builds, as does basing XP cost on total class levels.

Alternatively, setting XP cost based on levels-in-class encourages a massive amount of eclectic dipping, especially in a group of players who's characters have disparate XP levels. It acts as a balance of melee versus caster if you wanted to progress past 6th HD. Players who feel "squishy", under this cost system, can readily and effectively solve it by focusing a great deal on a variety of marshal training(taking levels in martial classes would grant good HP rolls for cheap XP costs, and potentially upgrade their Max HP too)