Intelligence-based Martials?

[Lalliman]

I'm not sure if this is in the right subforum, since it's talking about homebrew but not presenting any.

I recently grew annoyed with the lack of non-magical characters who benefit from mental stats in 5e, so I went to work trying to create an Intelligence-based martial. I had confidence at first, but it's growing more difficult the further along I get. I feel like it's difficult coming up with abilities that are mechanically interesting* without being thematically weird**.

* Adding Int to AC, for example, is a fine mechanic, but by itself it doesn't really give the feeling that this character's power comes from their intelligence.
** Like how some iterations of the Warlord can let their allies act out of turn by yelling commands at them.

So, this is a two part question.
1. Do you guys know of any homebrew Int-based martials that I could draw inspiration from? I've had a look around this forum and the homebrew wiki, but could only find two (weaseldust's Warlord and Rfkannen's Intellectual), which strikes me as awfully few. (Note that by martial I mean fully non-magical. Eldritch knight thus doesn't count.)

2. What kind of ability would you like to see in an intelligence-based martial? Anything you think would be particularly interesting? This has probably been discussed before, but I couldn't find it.

[Giant2005]

Feel free to take inspiration from my "Intelligence Matters" homebrew in my sig.

[SharkForce]

well you could take some inspiration from http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/aegis

also, that class is just awesome in the first place, so it would be awesome to see it converted :)

[Mjolnirbear]

Feel free to take inspiration from my "Intelligence Matters" homebrew in my sig.

Which, I must say, is a pretty cool doc.

[Lalliman]

Feel free to take inspiration from my "Intelligence Matters" homebrew in my sig.
Your tactician is awesome, I think I'll start offering that one to my players by default. But in the end, Int will probably remain a secondary stat for players using these archetypes. What I really would like is a martial who uses Int as their primary stat, just like how Int is the primary stat of a wizard.


well you could take some inspiration from http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/aegis
An interesting class indeed, but it very much counts as magical in my book.

[TheProfessor85]

I know Psionics isn't "martial", but the Mystic Order of the Immortal just begs got tanky melee

[Grod_The_Giant]

Stuff like

Study the Foe: As a bonus action, pick a type of foe and make an appropriate Intelligence check-- Arcana, History, Nature or Religion-- with a DC equal to 8+the target's CR. If you succeed, you may use your Intelligence bonus in place of your normal ability when making attack and damage rolls against that creature for one minute, and you gain a +2 bonus to AC and Dexterity saves against that creature's attacks. (You need something like this if you want Int to be a primary ability)

Forgotten Lore: As an action, pick a type of foe and make an appropriate Intelligence check-- Arcana, History, Nature or Religion-- with a DC equal to 8+the target's CR. If you succeed, you and all allies who can hear you within 30ft who attack that foe deal an additional 1d6 damage with any attacks that require attack rolls.

[R.Shackleford]

My Neolithic-Arcana house rules makes it where you only have martials but Int/Wis/Cha govern using spell stones. Not exactly what you want but refluff those spells into tech and you have martials using Int, Wis, and Cha.

[SharkForce]

An interesting class indeed, but it very much counts as magical in my book.

you didn't say non-magical, you said martial.

yes, that guy is generating some fairly potent supernatural effects. he still has a heck of a lot more in common with a fighter than he has with a wizard. when he fights, he will fight with weapons and clever tactics. when he solves problems, he will be using the power of his mind to generate tools to solve problems, rather than using the power of his mind to solve problems (that is, a wizard casts a spell and the wall is disintegrated or insubstantial or whatever... an aegis modifies his suit to have digging claws and digs a tunnel underneath the wall, or develops climbing claws and climbs over the wall, or grows wings and flies over the wall, but at no point does he just use his powers to magically make the wall disappear).

in essence, the aegis is using his mind to enhance his own abilities, not to modify the environment. he's supernatural. but he is also very much a martial character.

[Cybren]

Stuff like

Study the Foe: As a bonus action, pick a type of foe and make an appropriate Intelligence check-- Arcana, History, Nature or Religion-- with a DC equal to 8+the target's CR. If you succeed, you may use your Intelligence bonus in place of your normal ability when making attack and damage rolls against that creature for one minute, and you gain a +2 bonus to AC and Dexterity saves against that creature's attacks. (You need something like this if you want Int to be a primary ability)

Forgotten Lore: As an action, pick a type of foe and make an appropriate Intelligence check-- Arcana, History, Nature or Religion-- with a DC equal to 8+the target's CR. If you succeed, you and all allies who can hear you within 30ft who attack that foe deal an additional 1d6 damage with any attacks that require attack rolls.

It doesn't have to be "int primary", just "int-relevant". Like an eldricht knight is probably going to be Str or Dex primary, even if they go for a high int build, but they still have reasons to increase their intelligence score. Imagine a tactician subclass that got a bardic inspiration like ability int mod times per day, the ability to add int to initiative, and a handful of class abilities that use int for things like save DCs.

I do hope that in a hypothetical 5.5 update they put a little more non-ability check intrinsic properties on int, though. I don't care for ability scores that feel more like numbers than attributes of your character as a person

[Jeebs]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B65bZeJ2KziZay0tN25pZzAwc1E/view

Here's Reddit user wdalright's Scholar. I followed along when they were updating it, but I haven't looked it over for a while.

[Giant2005]

Your tactician is awesome, I think I'll start offering that one to my players by default. But in the end, Int will probably remain a secondary stat for players using these archetypes. What I really would like is a martial who uses Int as their primary stat, just like how Int is the primary stat of a wizard.

That is why I made the "Raw Magic" feat. I specifically had Shillelagh in mind when making that. If a secondary stat is useful enough, then it becomes very tempting to take that feat and turn it into your primary stat.

[Lalliman]

Stuff like (snip)
I came up with stuff along this line as well, but haven't fully decided on the specifics yet. Thanks for the input though.


My Neolithic-Arcana house rules makes it where you only have martials but Int/Wis/Cha govern using spell stones. Not exactly what you want but refluff those spells into tech and you have martials using Int, Wis, and Cha.
As you say, it's not what I'm looking for, but it is awesome. I'll keep these rules in mind for other purposes.


you didn't say non-magical, you said martial.
I did say non-magical, twice. It's a cool class and I understand why you suggest it, but it's not what I'm looking for in this specific situation.


It doesn't have to be "int primary", just "int-relevant". Like an eldricht knight is probably going to be Str or Dex primary, even if they go for a high int build, but they still have reasons to increase their intelligence score. Imagine a tactician subclass that got a bardic inspiration like ability int mod times per day, the ability to add int to initiative, and a handful of class abilities that use int for things like save DCs.
I suppose it doesn't have to be Int-primary in the sense that you put your highest score in Int right off the bat, but I'd prefer Int to be useful enough that bringing it to 20 is strongly desirable. This is, in my experience, not really the case with the Eldritch Knight.


Here's Reddit user wdalright's Scholar. I followed along when they were updating it, but I haven't looked it over for a while.
This one has a lot of good stuff. Thanks for the link!

[MeeposFire]

The last time where I found in D&D a pure warrior type that used int to really boost himself was in 2e AD&D where you could use your int to buy more prof to boost your character. Heck with enough access int was stronger than all but the highest level str score (18/XX+ was better but 17 or less int wins hands down).

[R.Shackleford]

The last time where I found in D&D a pure warrior type that used int to really boost himself was in 2e AD&D where you could use your int to buy more prof to boost your character. Heck with enough access int was stronger than all but the highest level str score (18/XX+ was better but 17 or less int wins hands down).

You should look at 3.5's Tome of Battle (Warblade) or 4e's Warlord. Both are martial classes that can/will use Int to supplement their martial abilities.

[Ralanr]

well you could take some inspiration from http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/aegis

also, that class is just awesome in the first place, so it would be awesome to see it converted :)

Psychic armor that can be shaped at will is best armor.

[Knaight]

There's the whole trope of the warrior who carefully observes how their opponent fights, and then counters it. I could see working that in as specialized maneuvers. For instance:

Observe Defenses: Make an Int+Prof check against the AC of any one enemy you can see as a bonus action. If successful, gain Advantage on your attack.
Observe Attacks: When attacked, as a reaction you may add your intelligence bonus to AC against one target. This may be done after the attack is known to be successful.
Fire and Wind: If the terrain is flammable, a torch or other fire source may be thrown. The fire may spread to a number of adjacent squares equal to the intelligence bonus of the thrower, that are picked by the thrower. Further spread is controlled by the GM.
Observe Terrain: Make an intelligence check as a bonus action against a DC determined by the GM, with higher DCs for cleaner terrain. If successful, a ground feature is found in the desired square that you can use against opponents. Gain Advantage when attacking any target in that terrain.

Fire and Wind stands out here, as an entire class could be made around related abilities. Knowing how fire will spread, figuring out complex trajectories for oversized falling/bouncing rocks (an ability that just has to be called Debris), spotting tiny terrain features to exploit, so on and so forth, all can work as cornerstones of an intelligence based warrior. Granted, everything involved could also be lumped into Wisdom, but that's pretty unavoidable.

[Lombra]

But bladesinger and eldritch knight are matials int-based am I wrong? I mean since you have int why not throw in some spells? The simplest way of doing something int-related without spellcasting is to change all wis-related things of the monk to intelligence dependant stats.

Or doing the same thing with swashbucklers replacing charisma with intelligence.

[BurgerBeast]

For a while I played with redesigning every class so that the player could stat them however they liked and still have an effective character, but the stats would affect play style. For example different schools might key off of different ability scores, do mages with low intelligence but high constitution could still be good summoners (or whatever).

Regarding the fighter, I thought strong fighters would excel at dealing powerful attacks and using shields, Dex based fighters would have mobility and finesse abilities, Con based would have staying power, Int based would have maneuvers such as disarm and trips, Wis based would be economical (faster recharges, or lower costs for some abilities), and Cha based would have Warlordy buffs and debuffs through shouts.

This all leads me to think that the current 5e Battlemaster is essentially the "smart fighter" archetype. I might make champion the standard fighter and the BM the smart fighter.

Alternatively, you might design a new class that is essentially a martial artist with more fighter-y weapons, and make it involve mental discipline, sort of like Lan in the Wheel of Time novels. He enters a sort of meditative state and uses maneuvers to "solve" battles.