V's Gender Debate IV [Official] [Archive] - Page 5

DarkElfGangsta

2009-11-27, 08:30 PM

I'm waiting for a good list for any of the sides (I don't see either side because I've also seen that V is asexual, a hermaphrodite, and 2 V's, one male and one female and they switch out between panels).

I have to say, I didn't know that V's gender was ever in question until I actually noticed it brought up in the comic. After I saw it, it seemed so obvious. Every character whose gender isn't obvious to me (usually reserved for non-anthropomorphic animals), I subconsciously assign a gender. I didn't do that for V.

so you instinctively thought that there are 2 Vs? you read through a comic and went " oh yeah that oone's a hermaphrodite, or 2 diff ppl, no doubt there!" no one thought of tthe herm explanation or the 2 Vs explanation before they came to the forum. cmon dude.

The Dark Fiddler

2009-11-27, 08:32 PM

I'll agree with you on the 2 V's, that was a joke theory, after all. :smalltongue:

Still, I can't say the same of V being a Hermaphrodite. I actually thought it was a very reasonable explanation before I signed up. Nothing on the forum has yet to make me think less of that specific chance.

DarkElfGangsta

2009-11-27, 09:15 PM

out of interest, what gave you the hermaphrodite interpretation?
I think it's pretty intersting how everyone interprets him differently...
I wonder what psychologists would have to say bout this?
(freud: YOU WANT TO BE WITH YO MAMAAAA)

The Dark Fiddler

2009-11-27, 09:21 PM

Nothing in particular.

Probably the fact that I was listening to Weird Al's Albuquerque a lot that day, which had stuck the term in my head, even though it only shows up once in the song.

Still, I don't really see any side having more evidence that the others, so I generally, when talking about V, switch gender pronouns every time I talk about him. Unless it's about a certain fanfic/comic/theory, then I use whatever she's referred to as there.

Nimrod's Son

2009-11-27, 11:52 PM

I thought that it was an "elves are feminine looking har" joke, like the one on
thief in 8bt. also it doesnt matter what V thinks in the context of this forum as we are trying to find his gender.
You might be. I'm sure as hell not. :smallsmile: V's gender is ambiguous and will always remain so; we have word of god on that.

J.J.J-H-Schmidt

2009-11-28, 06:54 AM

V is not male or female... V is pat. that is the whole point of being V and/or pat. the pat reference can lend itself to you like this. pat was played by a female actor who looked masculine, while pat's mate chris was played by a male actor who looked feminine, just like V and (s)he'(s?) mate. but why? because that is the character concept.

if you think V is male, then she is obviously female.

if you think V is female, then he is obviously male.

the iocaine powder was in both goblets... the only way you are wrong in this debate is to pick one over the other. inconcievable, i know, but there you have it.

enjoyed the debate though. tried very hard to be politically correct... which i think just adds more to the whole humor of the character and genius of the creator in the frist place

Fernando_

2009-11-28, 07:49 AM

For some reason I was quite sure V was male before I started reading the forums and found out there was a discussion about it.
I had read the entire comic about 3 times and never noticed it... which should really say something about me :smalltongue:

In any case, I guess since the Giant said we'll never know, it's settled.
Unless of course there are any vengeful ex-girlfriends of his to shed some light to us :smallamused:

But then again, maybe he doesnt share that information with anyone at all.

DarkElfGangsta

2009-11-28, 02:04 PM

derfenrirwolv

2009-11-28, 03:46 PM

gah! okay you guys, V is without gender till the giant gives a word about it.
What I originally asked was, what made you perceive him/her/it as female?. I just think it is interesting to see how people perceive V's gender differently.

The evidence for V being female is

All the guys got one room. V and Haley get another. They appear to be separated by gender, which would make V female.

Yes, its possible that He's VERY happily married, or too much of an elven supremacist for sleeping with a human to even register, but the indication is still there.

The succubus who switches genders a lot referred to V as female.

In the dragon magazine comic, there was an apricot scented exfoliating gel that Roy wanted to give to Haley.. V got mildly miffed. He could be female, gay, or European elven.

sparkyinbozo

2009-11-28, 05:48 PM

gah! okay you guys, V is without gender till the giant gives a word about it.
What I originally asked was, what made you percieve hime/her/it as female?. I just think it is interesting to see how people percieve V's gender differently.

Heya...I am a psych grad student, thought I'd weigh in here. People just associate V's traits/actions they see as fitting with their world views or experience (such as never having seen a female wizard, so V must be male).

Personally, I thought V was female for a while due to the closeness with Hailey and to balance out the male:female ratio. Now I've gotta say I see V as a gay male (who falls into "Androgynous" vs. masculine/feminine) because of Kyrie seeming male and having adopted kids, and also because:

1. Studies show gay males tend to be more verbose than average
2. It's not uncommon for gay guys to have something to "prove," by obtaining supreme magic power in V's case
3. It explains how V and Hailey would've established a close friendship quickly.

NothingButCake

2009-11-28, 11:49 PM

Some of that was not so much psychology as much as stereotyping and armchair speculation.

IPERTM

2009-11-29, 12:03 AM

*sigh*
The only way to answer this question is to ask V,
Good luck, bring a shield spell for the quickened indignant disintegrate.

lio45

2009-11-29, 12:04 AM

If it's so clear cut, then, how come his own team (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0323.html) members (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0599.html) can't tell?

Yes, but it's not all of them who can't tell: Roy calls him "man" in this early comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0009.html).

Something that, of course, we'll never see again... but still, it WAS actually done.

Nimrod's Son

2009-11-29, 12:12 AM

Yes, but it's not all of them who can't tell: Roy calls him "man" in this early comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0009.html).

Something that, of course, we'll never see again... but still, it WAS actually done.
That strip was written before Rich decided to make V ambiguous, so its canonicity is dubious. But in On the Origin of PCs, it becomes clear that Roy's just as confused as anyone else.

When Vaarsuvius hands Roy his application, there is a large ink blot covering V's answer to the "gender" question. Roy asks V to write it in the margin and V replies that the quill is broken and he doesn't want to risk spilling ink on his robe, so would Roy mind filling it in for him?

There is an awkward pause while Roy looks V over, then he replies, "Right, you know what? It's not important. Moving on...".

SaintRidley

2009-11-29, 01:35 AM

Umm... Kyrie's already clearly male.

Before I ever read any of this thread, I can honestly say the thought that Kyrie might be anything other than female never even occurred to me.

Clearly male is just not the right way to term it.

sparkyinbozo

2009-11-29, 10:38 AM

Some of that was not so much psychology as much as stereotyping and armchair speculation.

Isn't this whole topic armchair speculation, then? :smallbiggrin:

DarkElfGangsta

2009-11-29, 07:21 PM

is it possible to just ask the Giant? I mean, he probably knows, since it's his comic. Also when Roy called V "man" that kindo f makes me think V's male. I think he was supposed ot be male anyways but then the gender speculation started among fans and Rich was enjoying it too much so he didnt make it official in OOTS-verse. sinceat least Roy and Haley definitely know Vs gender, and Roy called him man, and no one on the team reacted to it, I think thats a pretty concrete evidence that V is male. he's probably Gay, as there is no indication for Kirye's gender, and that their kids are adopted.

I could be off the mark though - I noticed that the entire elf party seemed to be ambigously gendered. so I think it's pretty definite V is male, but if we accept that elves are generally androginous-looking, we can't tell what is K's gender. on the other hand, female dark elves look feminine, so either all the regular elves thus far seen in the comic are male, or Rich is drawing them ambiguosly gendered on purpose.

this is confusing, we really should ask the giant.

Water-Smurf

2009-11-29, 07:24 PM

this is confusing, we really should ask the giant.

The Giant won't give us a definitive answer. That's why it's still ambiguous.

Kish

2009-11-29, 07:24 PM

is it possible to just ask the Giant?

Been done. (http://www.giantitp.com/FAQ.html#faq10)

Pay close attention to what he says it means when someone calls Vaarsuvius something gender-specific.

The Dark Fiddler

2009-11-29, 07:37 PM

sinceat least Roy and Haley definitely know Vs gender, and Roy called him man, and no one on the team reacted to it, I think thats a pretty concrete evidence that V is male. he's probably Gay, as there is no indication for Kirye's gender, and that their kids are adopted.

I could be off the mark though - I noticed that the entire elf party seemed to be ambigously gendered. so I think it's pretty definite V is male

I don't quite follow your logic on any of these counts.

A) It's pretty obvious Roy doesn't know V's gender, and it's reasonable to say that Haley's just as likely to not know as she is to know.

B) I don't see how adopted kids = gay couple. Straight couples adopt too. Maybe they don't want to go through the hassle of childbirth, or maybe one of them is infertile. Or maybe they just wanted to adopt and help an orphan or something.

C) I... really don't understand your logic here. At all. Entire elf party being androgynous = male V? :smallconfused:

lio45

2009-11-29, 09:35 PM

That strip was written before Rich decided to make V ambiguous...

You sound very much like it's a commonly accepted fact that V started comic life as a male... Is it really?

If yes, then that's good news, as it means I will never again have to argue with anyone about this.

Kish

2009-11-29, 10:11 PM

You sound very much like it's a commonly accepted fact that V started comic life as a male... Is it really?

If yes, then that's good news, as it means I will never again have to argue with anyone about this.
I'm not at all clear on why you feel the obligation to argue with anyone about it now. Vaarsuvius' gender is ambiguous now, and has been for the vast bulk of the comic. What it originally was is irrelevant.

Nimrod's Son

2009-11-30, 12:38 AM

You sound very much like it's a commonly accepted fact that V started comic life as a male... Is it really?

If yes, then that's good news, as it means I will never again have to argue with anyone about this.
I believe the strip where Roy calls Vaarsuvius "V-man" was the one that caused the forum to erupt with cries of "Wait! I thought V was female!", to which Rich responded with something along the lines of "I have no problem with V's gender being ambiguous". And from there the in-comic jokes began. He's never come out and said what gender V was meant to be, but it seems pretty obvious to me.

But yeah, what Kish said.

DarkElfGangsta

2009-11-30, 09:16 AM

I don't quite follow your logic on any of these counts.

A) It's pretty obvious Roy doesn't know V's gender, and it's reasonable to say that Haley's just as likely to not know as she is to know.

B) I don't see how adopted kids = gay couple. Straight couples adopt too. Maybe they don't want to go through the hassle of childbirth, or maybe one of them is infertile. Or maybe they just wanted to adopt and help an orphan or something.

C) I... really don't understand your logic here. At all. Entire elf party being androgynous = male V? :smallconfused:

A) what makes you say they don't? as far as I remeember neither expressed confusion regarding V's gender.

B) I didn't mean to offend. I am saying that in the context of the V is a gay male argument, it makes more sense from that viewpoint that the reason V adopted is because they are a gay couple. like I said at the end, we could all be off the mark.

C) No. what I am saying is that since so far no definitely-male or definitely-female elves appeared in the comic, it makes it much mush harder to discern elven genders.

Also, what made me think V is male is not just that Roy calle V "man", neither V or anyone else reacted as if this was not true. Even if Roy and heley don't know for sure, V certainly does. also, even if Rich decided to make V ambiguosly-gendered later, does it really mean that any earlier strip is not Canon? wouldn't it then hold for other things introduced in earlier strips?:smallconfused:

Again let me reiterate that this is all speculation based on what is presented in the comic, and I could be completely be wrong.

hope that makes it clearer. Also, to people who say that V is ambiguosly gendered - YES. HE/SHE/IT IS. I thought that this was what we were discussing here, so why do people keep reiterating that it doesn't matter or that no evidence is absolutely conclusive? Part of the fun is the speculation and the research. It really doesn't matter to me what V's gender is, It's just something that is fun to research and debate with the OOTS community.

The Dark Fiddler

2009-11-30, 10:37 AM

Sorry about not quite getting what you were saying; drowsy posting is a dangerous thing. :smalltongue:

A) what makes you say they don't? as far as I remeember neither expressed confusion regarding V's gender.

Also, what made me think V is male is not just that Roy calle V "man", neither V or anyone else reacted as if this was not true. Even if Roy and heley don't know for sure, V certainly does.

As stated before, Roy expressed confusion in On the Origins of PCs. I'm pretty sure he's done so since, but I'm far to lazy to look through nearly 700 comics right now just for an argument. As for Haley, I'm mostly basing it on the fact that nobody (seems to, at the very least) know V's gender. Sure, they share a room about 90% of the time, but that doesn't necessarily mean she knows. But it also could mean that she does know, which is why I gave her about even odds of knowing.

Regardless, if she knows, she's not telling.

Surely you've seen somebody call a female friend 'dude' before, right? And did they correct. It's one of those things that is gender specific, but is used in a non-gender specific way.

Or maybe V just doesn't care about that.

DarkElfGangsta

2009-11-30, 12:23 PM

Sorry about not quite getting what you were saying; drowsy posting is a dangerous thing. :smalltongue:

Surely you've seen somebody call a female friend 'dude' before, right? And did they correct. It's one of those things that is gender specific, but is used in a non-gender specific way.

Or maybe V just doesn't care about that.

"Dude" yes. "Man"? nope.
I thought of something else: are dark elves biologically similar to elves? because the dark elf avatar is definitly feminine. if they are similar, would that mean that all elves thus far featured in OOTS are male?

Amon Star

2009-11-30, 06:31 PM

"Dude" yes. "Man"? nope.
I thought of something else: are dark elves biologically similar to elves? because the dark elf avatar is definitly feminine. if they are similar, would that mean that all elves thus far featured in OOTS are male?

Liriam from the Order of the Scribble is obviously female. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html) As were some of the other elves with her in the prequel book, so it's obvious that not all elves or androgynous in OotS-land

mizzim

2009-11-30, 06:51 PM

Kyrie is, in my mind, obviously a male. He has a rectangle-shaped body, whereas girls have a different body shape. Long hair is not an indication of girl-ness.

Kish

2009-11-30, 06:52 PM

hope that makes it clearer. Also, to people who say that V is ambiguosly gendered - YES. HE/SHE/IT IS. I thought that this was what we were discussing here, so why do people keep reiterating that it doesn't matter or that no evidence is absolutely conclusive?
Because people keep saying there's concrete evidence that Vaarsuvius is male/female.

Mostly male. Note: I'm not saying most people who believe Vaarsuvius is one or the other believe Vaarsuvius is male; that's not the case. I am saying that most of the "X's obviously Y, anyone who says either that X's Z or that it's ambiguous is silly" people fill in "he" where I have "X," "male" where I have "Y," and, "female" where I have "Z."

The Dark Fiddler

2009-11-30, 07:13 PM

Long hair is not an indication of girl-ness.

Proof right here.

I have longer hair than at least half the girls at my school. :smallbiggrin:

lio45

2009-11-30, 11:56 PM

I'm not at all clear on why you feel the obligation to argue with anyone about it now. Vaarsuvius' gender is ambiguous now, and has been for the vast bulk of the comic. What it originally was is irrelevant.

More or less agree. It's somewhat relevant when you consider that V was originally conceived, designed, named, and drawn as a male elf wizard, and that V's currently identical to the initial V with the exception of a few superficial art updates.

Since we all officially know that the exact V we see in the comic was "created" male by Rich... that IMO makes it hard to consider V anything but male. The author's intent when he came up with that character of his was that he was male... and we know it... yes, we also know he backpedaled since then, but still...

JMO, of course. Just to make sure, you still admit V was created as a male?

Kish

2009-11-30, 11:59 PM

Not a bit of it. "Still"? I never did. :smalltongue:

It's a commonly accepted fact that Vaarsuvius wasn't originally conceived as gender-ambiguous. That, Rich has stated. For a while, we had people claiming that Rich had stated Vaarsuvius was originally male; they were wrong and appear to have, blessedly, given it up. Not being able to read minds, thinking (as I just said) that it's utterly irrelevant, and having fairly compelling evidence (your most recent post) that if I did speculate you would either try to use my speculation as evidence for Vaarsuvius' current sex (if I chose "originally male") or attempt to engage me in a debate on a subject I consider irrelevant (if I chose "originally female"), I decline to speculate on which gender Vaarsuvius originally was.

DarkElfGangsta

2009-12-01, 12:10 AM

so, Kish, what do you think is Vs gender?

lio45

2009-12-01, 12:11 AM

Not a bit of it. "Still"? I never did. :smalltongue:

I admit that all the people who claim Rich specifically said Vaarsuvius was originally created as male are wrong.

From your reply --quoted below-- I thought I was speaking with someone sharing Nimrod's Son's view, since you didn't correct or answer me when I pointed out he made it seem like it was a commonly accepted fact that V started comic life as a male... saying this instead:

I'm not at all clear on why you feel the obligation to argue with anyone about it now. Vaarsuvius' gender is ambiguous now, and has been for the vast bulk of the comic. What it originally was is irrelevant.

If you don't agree that V started life as male, then you should be clear on why I argue! I argue to convince. The most obvious reason to say I shouldn't argue is that you feel I'm preaching to converts. That's how I understood it, anyway.

For example, I wouldn't ever feel the obligation to argue that Belkar is Evil (and never, ever did).

Basically, all the arguing I have ever done on this subject was aimed at proving that V was originally supposed to be a male. (And Nimrod's Son made me think I had perhaps wasted my time, but you say no.)

Nothing else can be discussed about V's "current" gender, since it's officially impossible to tell now. The only thing that's not pointless to discuss is to determine whether or not V was created with a gender in mind or not.

lio45

2009-12-01, 12:20 AM

Not being able to read minds, thinking (as I just said) that it's utterly irrelevant, and having fairly compelling evidence (your most recent post) that if I did speculate you would either try to use my speculation as evidence for Vaarsuvius' current sex (if I chose "originally male") or attempt to engage me in a debate on a subject I consider irrelevant (if I chose "originally female"), I decline to speculate on which gender Vaarsuvius originally was.

I'd be interested, out of curiosity, to hear how anyone can possibly argue in favor of "originally female".

Also, know that I would never try to use anything as evidence for V's current sex. I have stated multiple times already that I consider V's current sex to be impossible to determine, and I am sure you did actually read those posts of mine.

Kish

2009-12-01, 12:22 AM

If you don't agree that V started life as male, then you should be clear on why I argue! I argue to convince. The most obvious reason to say I shouldn't argue is that you feel I'm preaching to converts. That's how I understood it, anyway.

For example, I wouldn't ever feel the obligation to argue that Belkar is Evil (and never, ever did).

Basically, all the arguing I have ever done on this subject was aimed at proving that V was originally supposed to be a male. (And Nimrod's Son made me think I had perhaps wasted my time, but you say no.)

Nothing else can be discussed about V's "current" gender, since it's officially impossible to tell now. The only thing that's not pointless to discuss is to determine whether or not V was created with a gender in mind or not.
I agree with your last two sentences, which is why I don't post much in this thread (present evidence notwithstanding :smallwink:). My reason for wondering why you argue Vaarsuvius' original gender is that the bulk of the posts in this thread are about what gender Vaarsuvius is now. DarkElfGangsta just asked me what gender I think Vaarsuvius is, to which my answer is, "Probably neither; having seen Inkyrius I doubt Rich will ever reveal an official gender for Vaarsuvius." I have no more trouble considering Vaarsuvius gender-neutral than I do considering that, in the universe of the comic from the vantage point of strip #692, s/he was never good-aligned, despite Rich having mentioned casually on the forum at the time of the Unholy Blight strip that all the members of the Order were good except Belkar (Rich later declared, in reference to that specific statement, that his statements on the forum weren't binding).

lio45

2009-12-01, 12:39 AM

I agree with your last two sentences, which is why I don't post much in this thread (present evidence notwithstanding :smallwink:). My reason for wondering why you argue Vaarsuvius' original gender is that the bulk of the posts in this thread are about what gender Vaarsuvius is now.

I know, but I was trying to steer the "debate" towards the only possible thing worth debating.

DarkElfGangsta just asked me what gender I think Vaarsuvius is, to which my answer is, "Probably neither; having seen Inkyrius I doubt Rich will ever reveal an official gender for Vaarsuvius."

Of course...

I have no more trouble considering Vaarsuvius gender-neutral than I do considering that, in the universe of the comic from the vantage point of strip #692, s/he was never good-aligned, despite Rich having mentioned casually on the forum at the time of the Unholy Blight strip that all the members of the Order were good except Belkar (Rich later declared, in reference to that specific statement, that his statements on the forum weren't binding).

He said that? Then it's extremely likely (the only reason I don't say "certain" is that I can't read thoughts either) that he did think of all of them as good in the very early comics. Now of course it's pretty clear that V is Neutral.

Come to think of it, it's very similar to the gender situation, with the exception that there were exactly ZERO hints in the early comics about V's alignment, whereas there are a few actual factors pointing to an originally male V. Makes it even easier for the author to change his mind later in the comic...

Selene

2009-12-01, 03:04 AM

He said that? Then it's extremely likely (the only reason I don't say "certain" is that I can't read thoughts either) that he did think of all of them as good in the very early comics. Now of course it's pretty clear that V is Neutral.

V was messing with Rich back then. Characters like V do what they want, author intention be damned. And V did not want to be good aligned. Also, he did not want to be assigned a binding gender. But I can't see V or Inkyrius as non-male.

Maybe we should ask the MitD if they can join the No Baby Eating Club. No Girls Allowed and all that.

DarkElfGangsta

2009-12-01, 09:25 AM

Okay People.
We know V started out male.
We know V didnt have some kind of magical transgender surgery offscreen.
Therefore, V is male. there.
Let peace reign for a thousand years.

Kish

2009-12-01, 02:13 PM

See why I don't want to speculate on what gender Vaarsuvius was originally, lio45? :smalltongue:

Okay People.
We know V started out male.
We know V didnt have some kind of magical transgender surgery offscreen.
Therefore, V is male. there.
No. Rich outranks you. (http://www.giantitp.com/FAQ.html#faq10)

Random832

2009-12-01, 02:14 PM

Okay People.
We know V started out male.
We know V didnt have some kind of magical transgender surgery offscreen.
Therefore, V is male. there.

You are committing the fallacy of equivocation - specifically, confusing time with hypertime.

DarkElfGangsta

2009-12-01, 02:27 PM

You are committing the fallacy of equivocation - specifically, confusing time with hypertime.

I'm doing what to the what now?

also, purely oots wise, not from our worldpoint ofview, logically V would be male. I'm sorry if I'm doing that thing you don't like kish with my standpoint, but Rich being God in this area of thet internet doesnt count as an argument.

Kish

2009-12-01, 02:34 PM

I'm doing what to the what now?

also, purely oots wise, not from our worldpoint ofview, logically V would be male. I'm sorry if I'm doing that thing you don't like kish with my standpoint, but Rich being God in this area of thet internet doesnt count as an argument.
"Because I say so" doesn't count as an argument for anyone but Rich, and you're not Rich. Insist Vaarsuvius' gender is (note present tense) not ambiguous if you choose to; you won't be the first and you won't be the last, and your perceptions will not change reality (they may or may not color it).

DarkElfGangsta

2009-12-01, 02:39 PM

"Because I say so" doesn't count as an argument for anyone but Rich. Insist Vaarsuvius' gender is (note present tense) not ambiguous if you choose to; you won't be the first and you won't be the last, and your doing so will barely make a ripple in the ongoing debate.

bah. hambug. I conclude that for max enjoyment we'll all think of V the way we want to. let's leave V's junk alone. hope no one got angry bout nothin I posted if it seemed to insistent, I am a passionate arguer.

Random832

2009-12-01, 02:39 PM

I'm doing what to the what now?

"V started out as male" does not refer to any point in V's personal history, it refers to the development history of the comic. A change in the comic [i.e. deciding to keep V's gender ambiguous] does not have to be accompanied by "some kind of magical transgender surgery offscreen."

And, you know what? No, we don't know that, anyway.

DarkElfGangsta

2009-12-01, 02:42 PM

"V started out as male" does not refer to any point in V's personal history, it refers to the development history of the comic. A change in the comic [i.e. deciding to keep V's gender ambiguous] does not have to be accompanied by "some kind of magical transgender surgery offscreen."

And, you know what? No, we don't know that, anyway.

I wasn't arguing from a reader'spoint of view. more of a resident of the OOTS universe point of view. I was using things from the comic itself, and nothing outside of it, such as the author's comments. like I just said, let's all enjoy oots the way we feel like it.

Kish

2009-12-01, 02:53 PM

I wasn't arguing from a reader'spoint of view. more of a resident of the OOTS universe point of view. I was using things from the comic itself, and nothing outside of it, such as the author's comments.
From a "resident of the OotS universe" point of view, Roy established (On the Origins of PCs) not knowing what gender Vaarsuvius is, before he called Vaarsuvius, "V-Man." Some people have referred to Vaarsuvius as male, and other people have referring to Vaarsuvius as female. I gather that, if you were a resident of the OotS universe, you would refer to Vaarsuvius as male.

DarkElfGangsta

2009-12-01, 02:59 PM

From a "resident of the OotS universe" point of view, Roy established (On the Origins of PCs) not knowing what gender Vaarsuvius is, before he called Vaarsuvius, "V-Man." Some people have referred to Vaarsuvius as male, and other people have referring to Vaarsuvius as female. I gather that, if you were a resident of the OotS universe, you would refer to Vaarsuvius as male.

Yes. That is correct.:smallsmile:

lio45

2009-12-01, 09:51 PM

See why I don't want to speculate on what gender Vaarsuvius was originally, lio45? :smalltongue:

In fact, he's wrong with his point #3... V did have "some kind of magical transgender surgery offscreen" at some point before comic #100 (approximately). V also probably underwent offscreen alignment surgery, since it's likely that Rich created V as Good.

Clearly, the author simply changed his mind, and since he hadn't already irreversibly committed to a specific gender in-comic, the possibility of making it officially ambiguous was still open. He chose to do it.

Usually, in that type of webcomic, the story isn't planned THAT far ahead. Do you think Rich knew for sure his comic would be running for so many years when he started? It's not unusual to notice a few little things in early comics that are slightly incoherent with things that happen several hundred comics later.

Anyway, since you say you don't want to speculate, let's try to stop the speculation. :smallwink: Quoting you:

It's a commonly accepted fact that Vaarsuvius wasn't originally conceived as gender-ambiguous. That, Rich has stated.

Really? If that is fact, then it's pretty much case closed IMO.

You'd be insulting Rich's intelligence, or at the very least his thoroughness, if you thought that he wouldn't have had Roy in comic #0009 address the party's wizard, Vaarsuvia, as "V-girl" (or something like that) had he chosen the "other" gender instead for his character.

As always, you're free to disagree, but I know you're smart enough to understand my point and I don't see how you can argue against it.

lio45

2009-12-01, 09:52 PM

P.S. My paragraphs #2 and #3 are meant for DarkElfGangsta, not Kish.

The Dark Fiddler

2009-12-01, 10:03 PM

Really? If that is fact, then it's pretty much case closed IMO.

You'd be insulting Rich's intelligence, or at the very least his thoroughness, if you thought that he wouldn't have had Roy in comic #0009 address the party's wizard, Vaarsuvia, as "V-girl" (or something like that) had he chosen the "other" gender instead for his character.

As always, you're free to disagree, but I know you're smart enough to understand my point and I don't see how you can argue against it.

I'm confused by your point. I'd like to note, before I post this, that I am again drowsy, so ignore incoherence and please forgive any errors in comprehension.

Case closed, as in... V's a guy, case closed? And saying otherwise insults Rich's intelligence? If this is truly what you're saying, I'm going to disagree. What V's gender originally was is irrelevant, V is now androgynous. And besides, Rich could ret-con V's gender to be something other than male.

DarkElfGangsta

2009-12-01, 10:13 PM

What V's gender originally was is irrelevant, V is now androgynous.

I can't stay away. why would it be irrelevant? my point was, if I was V myself, and started out a certain gender, i wouldnt be a different gender later. yes rich changed V's gender from male to ambiguous, but OOTS-character V still has the same gender, as hard to disecern as it is.

lio45

2009-12-01, 10:29 PM

Case closed, as in... V's a guy, case closed?

No, as in: if you admit that V was conceived by Rich with a gender in mind, then V was originally created as a guy, case closed.

What V's gender originally was is irrelevant, V is now androgynous.

Sure. Well, I would argue that it's slightly relevant (already explained why in a reply to Kish on last page) but I still agree 100% that V's gender is undefined now.

And besides, Rich could ret-con V's gender to be something other than male.

Sure. In fact, he did. V's been officially ambiguously-gendered for about 600 strips now.

lio45

2009-12-01, 10:39 PM

my point was, if I was V myself, and started out a certain gender, i wouldnt be a different gender later.

Yes, but you're not a fictional character.

First example that comes to mind: consider how James Bond went from dark-haired to blond, brown-eyed to blue-eyed, etc. over the years in spite of the fact it's still supposed to be the same character.

To some, like you maybe, V will always be male and Bond will always be Sean Connery. You can choose to see it like that if you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the fictional character actually changed over time in a way that would never happen to anyone in reality.

DarkElfGangsta

2009-12-01, 10:58 PM

Yes, but you're not a fictional character.

First example that comes to mind: consider how James Bond went from dark-haired to blond, brown-eyed to blue-eyed, etc. over the years in spite of the fact it's still supposed to be the same character.

To some, like you maybe, V will always be male and Bond will always be Sean Connery. You can choose to see it like that if you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the fictional character actually changed over time in a way that would never happen to anyone in reality.

I take medicine for that.

again, that is not my point. in my standpoint I'm not viewing OOTS as the webcomic, I'm trying to view it in a non-fictional sort of way, as if I was in the story myself. kind of like, a bookhave you ever read "monstrous regiment" by terry pratchett? if so, then maybe it'll be easier for me to express my explanation

HotAndCold

2009-12-02, 01:30 AM

As is said in some circles, IC=/=OOC. OOCly, V was created male, then subtly retconned into being ambiguously gendered. But ICly, V is ambiguously gendered and always has been. That's what a retcon is. Anything that contradicts the retcon is irrelevant, because it's been retconned. In the world of the comic, V did not start out as definitively male and therefore did not require any off-panel surgery to become no longer definitively male. V has always had an ambiguous appearance in the comic world.

J.J.J-H-Schmidt

2009-12-02, 02:37 AM

yeah, i think it is kinda the whole point. V will be what V will be. the only way you could be "wrong" in assuming (s)he's sex is by assuming it in the first place.

i don't know if it is a ploy to intentionally upset readers who may not be entirly comfortable with there own gender assignment, or if it was as said above: V started out male, but through abiguity and the fact that it came into question later was made to be a running gag.

either way its great for the comic, and i think that the introduction of V's mate totally played up well to the whole "it's pat" shtick

Selene

2009-12-02, 03:13 AM

Yes, but you're not a fictional character.

First example that comes to mind: consider how James Bond went from dark-haired to blond, brown-eyed to blue-eyed, etc. over the years in spite of the fact it's still supposed to be the same character.

To some, like you maybe, V will always be male and Bond will always be Sean Connery. You can choose to see it like that if you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the fictional character actually changed over time in a way that would never happen to anyone in reality.

Oh, gods. Don't start saying Bond is blond. I have nightmares like that. :smalltongue:

(I'll accept either Sean or Pierce, though.)

J.J.J-H-Schmidt

2009-12-02, 03:53 AM

[/QUOTE]Oh, gods. Don't start saying Bond is blond. I have nightmares like that. :smalltongue:

(I'll accept either Sean or Pierce, though.)[/QUOTE]

its all about lazenby, baby

sparkyinbozo

2009-12-02, 09:39 PM

Selene

2009-12-03, 01:25 AM

its all about lazenby, baby

http://cosgan.de/images/smilie/konfus/g010.gif

The pain.

http://cosgan.de/images/smilie/konfus/k050.gif

J.J.J-H-Schmidt

2009-12-03, 01:40 AM

george lazenby portrayed the character of bond just as well as sean almighty himself.

i also believe that aside from bond getting married, on her majesty's secret service was the best story of all the bond films. the only reason he isn't more widely accepted is because he only did one movie. which is an utter shame.

if he had half the screen time that moore did, than i am sure he would give connery a run for the "ultimate bond" title:smallwink:

DarkElfGangsta

2009-12-03, 12:56 PM

getting off topic...

NothingButCake

2009-12-03, 05:17 PM

yes rich changed V's gender from male to ambiguous, but OOTS-character V still has the same gender, as hard to disecern as it is.Well, not necessarily. V's gender identity could very well has changed over the course of the story.

The Dark Fiddler

2009-12-03, 05:36 PM

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0028.html

Hey, I just noticed this...it's like the Roy calling V "V-man," here Belkar implies that he suspected something about V being gay in the 6th panel; at least, that's how I read it. Other interpretations are always welcome.

That's how I read it, and I'm pretty sure that's how Rich meant it to be read (Disclaimer: I am not Rich). And? That just means that Belkar thinks V's a guy.

DarkElfGangsta

2009-12-03, 08:29 PM

I think more characters called V a guy than characters who calle V a girl.

Kish

2009-12-03, 08:52 PM

Allowing, for the sake of argument, just for a moment, that that's the case. What of it?

DarkElfGangsta

2009-12-03, 10:20 PM

That's how I read it, and I'm pretty sure that's how Rich meant it to be read (Disclaimer: I am not Rich). And? That just means that Belkar thinks V's a guy.

I simply noticed that other people (sabine for example) reffered to V's gender in a confident manner to which V did not react as if this was incorrect.

Lira

2009-12-03, 10:24 PM

I simply noticed that other people (sabine for example) reffered to V's gender in a confident manner to which V did not react as if this was incorrect.
OOTS #252 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0252.html) - Sabine: The elf dude is old and highly skilled at magic... and an apprentice would be young and barely competent!
OOTS #385 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0385.html) - Sabine: You got it, sister.
As you can see, Sabine doesn't know what gender V is.

V's been called male or female by various people and hasn't reacted, so we can't make any judgments based on that.

DarkElfGangsta

2009-12-03, 10:32 PM

OOTS #252 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0252.html) - Sabine: The elf dude is old and highly skilled at magic... and an apprentice would be young and barely competent!
OOTS #385 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0385.html) - Sabine: You got it, sister.
As you can see, Sabine doesn't know what gender V is.

V's been called male or female by various people and hasn't reacted, so we can't make any judgments based on that.

zactly. that was my point.

HotAndCold

2009-12-03, 10:41 PM

So your point is... that you don't have a point? I'm not sure what you're arguing here.

Nimrod's Son

2009-12-03, 10:57 PM

From your reply --quoted below-- I thought I was speaking with someone sharing Nimrod's Son's view, since you didn't correct or answer me when I pointed out he made it seem like it was a commonly accepted fact that V started comic life as a male... saying this instead:
Hang on a minute. As far as I can tell, Kish and I do agree on the issue of V's gender: it is and always will be ambiguous. Whatever V was originally intended to be is pretty irrelevant - I believe it was Rich's intention for V to be male, yes. I have no problem admitting that; Kish is keeping schtum on the matter. But what we're both saying is this: whatever Rich originally intended doesn't matter any more, and so shouldn't even figure in this discussion.

The clincher here is that we know that early on Rich intended the Oracle to be female, but when he turned up in the story he was reinvented as a snarky male kobold. So unless anyone here wants to claim that the Oracle remains female, you can't use the "V-man" remark as proof of anything here.

DarkElfGangsta

2009-12-03, 11:01 PM

So your point is... that you don't have a point? I'm not sure what you're arguing here.

naw. my point being is that because other characters in the comic gave a gender to V (Roy: V-man, Sabine: sister, dude) and V did not react as if this was true or untrue to both, therefore we cannot rely on what other charcters say regarding V's gender.

Pretty much I think only 4 people know what is V's gender: V, Kyrie, V's teacher (probably) and Rich.

SadisticFishing

2009-12-03, 11:09 PM

How the heck does V-Man imply anything more than all the he's and she's thrown around in the comic?

What do you want Roy to call V, "V-Elf"? That just sounds silly.

DarkElfGangsta

2009-12-03, 11:15 PM

How the heck does V-Man imply anything more than all the he's and she's thrown around in the comic?

What do you want Roy to call V, "V-Elf"? That just sounds silly.

*sigh*

please read my posts in their entirety before you comment on them angrily.
what you just said was exactly my point.

lio45

2009-12-04, 08:42 AM

How the heck does V-Man imply anything more than all the he's and she's thrown around in the comic?

What do you want Roy to call V, "V-Elf"? That just sounds silly.

Um, what about simply "V", you know, like... ALWAYS?

There's a reason V's NEVER EVER been called "V-Man" again by Roy or any other member of the party in the 683 comics that followed. Rich never edits old comics, but that's probably one of the first things he'd erase if he did.

ScottishDragon

2009-12-04, 10:16 AM

Totaly from strip 1 i thought v was female!!!
She just strikes me as femenine.

lio45

2009-12-04, 01:03 PM

BTW, another important thing I forgot to point out... notice that
all the he's and she's thrown around in the comic are thrown around by people like Xykon, Nale, Sabine, the IFCC, Qarr, etc. -- people who do not know V well. On the other hand, you'll notice that the main characters (OotS party members) never throw random he's and she's.

...with the exception of this early "V-man" from Roy, a close friend and long-term adventuring party colleague of V.

So this huge difference is what explains

How the heck does V-Man imply anything more than all of those random he's and she's from comics after V was made ambiguously-gendered.

DarkElfGangsta

2009-12-04, 01:44 PM

yeah but apparently even Roy doesnt know, someone said he expressed confusion in one of the books.
sigh I'll ask my cousin from Canada to get me one of theoots books :smallsmile:for Hanukka.

ScottishDragon

2009-12-05, 11:44 AM

Hey am i the only one that has remembered,but when they were staying in the hotel,V was there when they went to the dwarfs room.This to me obviously indicates that V is female.

The Dark Fiddler

2009-12-05, 11:52 AM

Hey am i the only one that has remembered,but when they were staying in the hotel,V was there when they went to the dwarfs room.This to me obviously indicates that V is female.

Not really. V is just back-up.

Kish

2009-12-05, 11:54 AM

Hey am i the only one that has remembered,but when they were staying in the hotel,V was there when they went to the dwarfs room.This to me obviously indicates that V is female.
Roy doesn't know Vaarsuvius' sex.

Incidentally, the answer to,

Hey am i the only one that has remembered
is always, always, "No, but other people don't think it establishes Vaarsuvius' sex" and usually, "See the FAQ."

ScottishDragon

2009-12-05, 01:10 PM

Roy has called Vaarsuvius V-man,most charachters already have an opinion on v's gender,but i guess roy is still guessing.

John Cribati

2009-12-05, 01:29 PM

Zanaril

2009-12-05, 08:15 PM

I'm neither confirming or denying V's gender, because I know it will never be revealed. I'm thinking male, though, because after the whole "Baleful Polymorph" mini-arc, V is returned to normal and re-robing behind the dragon, his/her body looks rectangular:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0186.html

We only see the very top. V could easily have a similar body shape to the archer elf in Team Peregrine (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html).

Maximum Zersk

2009-12-05, 08:17 PM

We only see the very top. V could easily have a similar body shape to the archer elf in Team Peregrine (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html).

Basically what I noticed.

Xacal

2009-12-05, 09:07 PM

We only see the very top. V could easily have a similar body shape to the archer elf in Team Peregrine (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html).

Uh, just to point out, we dont know THAT elf's gender either....:smallconfused:
Also, V still has a different body type from that individual; (s)he is drawn more akin to Roy than to that elf...

I don't know what this proves, but personally, Im saying that V is male, because in the "Lizard that Roared" commentary in "No Cure For the Paladin Blues," Rich always referred to V as male. (And yes, I have read the FAQ, but I figured that this would at least let me decide my opinion as to V's gender :smallwink:...)

Drolyt

2010-01-01, 06:17 PM

Such a long thread. And this is simply the last in a line of many? I've always expected we will learn V's gender, but not till the strip is nearly over. Or maybe we won't, that's the giant's decision. Either way these discussions don't seem to matter. For my part though I had assumed he/she was an androgynous male until the other characters started pointing out that nobody knew for sure. Even though he rooms with Haley I still think he/she makes more sense as a dude, his/her actions, particularly while rescuing his/her mate, while not prohibitive of the possibility of him being female, seem very masculine. His/her name sounds masculine. Also to my eyes V's mate looks feminine. So yeah I think he/she is probably male but we don't know. Someone did mention the giant slipping up and calling him/her he, and while that doesn't prove anything it may very well have been a slip.

Kish

2010-01-01, 07:23 PM

Rich commonly calls Vaarsuvius "he" on the forum, and said a while ago that no one should read more into this than that typing him/her all the time gets annoying.

The Dark Fiddler

2010-01-01, 08:19 PM

He is also commonly used as a gender neutral pronoun instead of it, since it tends to be so impersonal and borderline insulting. So yeah.

Temotei

2010-01-01, 08:28 PM

I had originally assumed Vaarsuvius was a male. Just a hunch. :smallcool:

Touchy

2010-01-01, 09:30 PM

The Dark Fiddler

2010-01-01, 09:56 PM

It probably was intended to be female, but all the questions just made the giant think it was a good idea for it to be ambiguous. At-least my theory. But until I get a definite answer(aka never) I am going to assume it's female.

I'm not going to argue about V's gender now, but It's pretty obvious that V was meant to be male before becoming ambiguous (:roy: V Man).

Lissou

2010-01-02, 11:56 AM

I'm not going to argue about V's gender now, but It's pretty obvious that V was meant to be male before becoming ambiguous (:roy: V Man).

Not to mention V had not only the male body, but the male face as well (yes, they are different, the position of the eyes and mouth isn't the same in males and females).
If V was intended to be ambiguous from the start, then it would be an explanation.
But using the male template for body and face for a character who wasn't supposed to be ambiguous until people made the mistake? Seems pretty obvious that V, if not intended to be ambiguous, was intended to be male.

goodyarn

2010-01-02, 04:06 PM

Did a search for the word "pink" and didn't see it in this thread, so...no doubt it's been pointed out before, BUT:

If V is a guy, he's a guy who uses pink-colored magic, and likes to polymorph into pink creatures (dragon, T-Rex, and now burrowing creature) a whole lot.

On the other hand, if V is a gal, she's a gal who *really* gets off on blowing stuff up.

Whichever side we come down on this question, we are forced to acknowledge that V is a guy who does girl things, or a girl who does guy things. And I am assuming that's the point, and Rich created V specifically for that purpose. Telling us what gender V really is would ruin it.

The Dark Fiddler

2010-01-02, 04:33 PM

Whichever side we come down on this question, we are forced to acknowledge that V is a guy who does girl things, or a girl who does guy things.

No. Pink isn't girly. It used to be considered a girl color in some cultures (American, for example) but it's fading in many places, and was even considered a masculine color in many cultures (it's a lighter red, and red is masculine!). Meanwhile, destruction isn't manly. I don't really know how to argue this other than the fact that it isn't.

Lissou

2010-01-02, 04:40 PM

I've always assumed pink was more like his magical aura, and a good compromise between his two colours (red and purple). I don't find anything else to note about it, since I fail to see how some colours could be more "manly" or "girly" than others.
We also have no reason to believe that whichever colour V uses is on purpose, rather than his aura or something, or a colour hint from the Giant for us so we can keep track of who's casting what spell.

goodyarn

2010-01-02, 05:22 PM

No. Pink isn't girly. It used to be considered a girl color in some cultures (American, for example) but it's fading in many places, and was even considered a masculine color in many cultures (it's a lighter red, and red is masculine!). Meanwhile, destruction isn't manly. I don't really know how to argue this other than the fact that it isn't.

Well, you might begin by citing a source for your claim that pink's association with the feminine is fading, even in America. Here's my counter-sources that it's not:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/557010

which claim it's been associated with women from 1940 through now.

And yes, this comic clearly has global reach and the characters are set in a fantasy world. However, given the numerous references in OOTS to American pop culture (G.I. Joe cartoons, SNL sketches, Subway restaurants, Captain America and X-Men comics, My Little Pony, Reading is Fundamental literary spots, and the TV show "Lost" to name just a few), it seems to me the characters have an American bias.

Destruction isn't "manly" in the best sense, no. And I think Rich's point is that V's extreme enjoyment of blowing things up is unhealthy. Nevertheless, I know many males but few females who get off on real or imagined explosions. If your experience is different, please enlighten me.

The Dark Fiddler

2010-01-02, 05:27 PM

Well, you might begin by citing a source for your claim that pink's association with the feminine is fading, even in America.

How about the fact that you commonly see men wearing pink, and all the 'Real Men Wear Pink' shirts?

Nevertheless, I know more males than females who get off on real or imagined explosions. If your experience is different, please enlighten me.

I know nobody that 'gets off' on explosions at all. :smalltongue:

More seriously, my friends tend to like explosions equally despite gender; fun too watch, overall.

goodyarn

2010-01-02, 05:34 PM

How about the fact that you commonly see men wearing pink, and all the 'Real Men Wear Pink' shirts?

I would say those shirts are attempting to buck a cultural bias, the same bias that Rich's creation of V is attempting to buck. But that doesn't mean the bias doesn't exist. I think we are on the same side of this question. Perhaps you just think we are farther along than I do.

More seriously, my friends tend to like explosions equally despite gender; fun too watch, overall.

How about *setting off* explosions, as V does? When my friends and I were setting off toy rockets and fire crackers, I don't recall any girls wanting to join us. Maybe things have changed, but if so, I haven't seen it.

The Dark Fiddler

2010-01-02, 06:07 PM

Perhaps you just think we are farther along than I do.

That mightn't be too far off.

How about *setting off* explosions, as V does? When my friends and I were setting off toy rockets and fire crackers, I don't recall any girls wanting to join us. Maybe things have changed, but if so, I haven't seen it.

That comparison is a bit iffy; V doesn't just set them off for fun, it's essentially his job. Still, I know I never took much of an interest in explosives myself, except for fireworks other people were putting on. My friends tend to like fireworks equally regardless of gender, and I don't think any of them tend to set off explosions.

Of course, that's my friends, a very small sample group. I could be very very far off here.

lio45

2010-01-02, 08:50 PM

How about the fact that you commonly see men wearing pink, and all the 'Real Men Wear Pink' shirts?

The existence of 'Real Men Wear Pink' shirts is something that actually contributes to showing that pink is generally associated with women in our culture, not the other way around.

Incidentally, I wonder why Rich chose to make those male/female gender icons (right below 'Location:' in the forum members' displayed info section) respectively blue and pink. I guess he rolled dice to pick random colors on a table...

Touchy

2010-01-03, 03:10 AM

goodyarn

2010-01-03, 11:07 AM

V doesn't just set [explosions] off for fun, it's essentially his job.

I disagree.

(1) Explosive runes is a spell V uses over and over again, sometimes as a joke on Belkar, sometimes against enemies but with a snarky note sent along with it.

(2) In a very recent strip, V approved of Girard's plan to blow up Soon as a way of ending their feud, and in general s/he approved of using big explosions to solve personal problems.

(3) In the recent battle with the insect slavers, V acknowledged to the raven familiar that s/he needs to curtail the instinct to use flashier spells (like lightning bolt) and instead concentrate on support (like heroism).

V just likes blowing stuff up.

Amon Star

2010-01-04, 08:47 AM

I have arguement proof myself :smallmad:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0123.html
In reply to the people who don't believe me, in the v was intended to be a women.
Either that are elven men are so girly that people would believe they have breasts. Also bodies mean nothing, not all women have breasts.

That was the other characters assuming V was a she from the conversation, which they otherwise aren't sure of. It doesn't effect the 'truth' of the matter.

I disagree.

(1) Explosive runes is a spell V uses over and over again, sometimes as a joke on Belkar, sometimes against enemies but with a snarky note sent along with it.

(2) In a very recent strip, V approved of Girard's plan to blow up Soon as a way of ending their feud, and in general s/he approved of using big explosions to solve personal problems.

(3) In the recent battle with the insect slavers, V acknowledged to the raven familiar that s/he needs to curtail the instinct to use flashier spells (like lightning bolt) and instead concentrate on support (like heroism).

V just likes blowing stuff up.

Minnie-May from Gunsmith Cats likes explosions, so females in fiction can be into them. And many female viewers of Mythbusters like the pyrotechnical aspect of the show, so the same clearly applies to real life too.

goodyarn

2010-01-06, 12:02 AM

Minnie-May from Gunsmith Cats likes explosions, so females in fiction can be into them. And many female viewers of Mythbusters like the pyrotechnical aspect of the show, so the same clearly applies to real life too.

But (again), do these women like learning about how to make explosions and then set those explosions off themselves (like V does), or do they just enjoy a big boom that someone else makes?

Before you object, yes, I'm sure you can find examples of women who do like blowing things up themselves if you look hard enough. But if you'll refer to my earlier post you'll see what I'm saying is that whether we believe V is male or female, Rich gives V a mix of stereotypically male and stereotypically female traits -- and I think that's his point. V is there to defy easy categorization, and telling us whether V is male or female would ruin that.

Ashram

2010-01-06, 02:24 AM

I disagree.

(1) Explosive runes is a spell V uses over and over again, sometimes as a joke on Belkar, sometimes against enemies but with a snarky note sent along with it.

(2) In a very recent strip, V approved of Girard's plan to blow up Soon as a way of ending their feud, and in general s/he approved of using big explosions to solve personal problems.

V just likes blowing stuff up.

True Neutral is funny like that.

Mystic Muse

2010-01-06, 02:32 AM

you know, it's a possibility not, (after all in the FAQ he says he'll never tell) but he might eventually just tell us what V actually is.

I'm not saying don't debate, gods know I've debated in quite other threads, including one that's spoofed occasionally, I'm just saying maybe one day we'll have an actual answer.:smallsmile:

Amon Star

2010-01-06, 05:06 AM

But (again), do these women like learning about how to make explosions and then set those explosions off themselves (like V does), or do they just enjoy a big boom that someone else makes?

Before you object, yes, I'm sure you can find examples of women who do like blowing things up themselves if you look hard enough. But if you'll refer to my earlier post you'll see what I'm saying is that whether we believe V is male or female, Rich gives V a mix of stereotypically male and stereotypically female traits -- and I think that's his point. V is there to defy easy categorization, and telling us whether V is male or female would ruin that.

I agree with you completely, as all of Rich's characters are fully three dimensional personalities. However, to answer your question in the first paragraph; Minnie-May is an demolitions expert that really likes her work, if you know what I mean, and I know one woman that used to blow up derelict cars and similar when younger.
True Neutral is funny like that.

True Neutral with a large dollop of Evil on the side, to be precise.

lio45

2010-01-07, 10:42 AM

Not to mention V had not only the male body, but the male face as well (yes, they are different, the position of the eyes and mouth isn't the same in males and females).
If V was intended to be ambiguous from the start, then it would be an explanation.
But using the male template for body and face for a character who wasn't supposed to be ambiguous until people made the mistake? Seems pretty obvious that V, if not intended to be ambiguous, was intended to be male.

Wow, that is an EXTREMELY good point, I can't believe I've never seen it mentioned it before (surely everything on this subject has been discussed to death already, including this particular point, but in that case I somehow missed it).

For a crystal clear demonstration, see this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0249.html).

"Female Roy" has a different face, with exactly the same eyes/mouth placement as Haley and other females; when he goes back to male, he returns to having the same eyes/mouth placement as (male) Roy, Vaarsuvius, and all other males in the comic.

(Not that the fact that V was created and designed as a male needed any extra confirmation...)

Kish

2010-01-07, 10:44 AM

Wow, that is an EXTREMELY good point, I can't believe I've never seen it mentioned it before (surely everything on this subject has been discussed to death already, including this particular point, but in that case I somehow missed it).
Someone did bring up Vaarsuvius' eye placement a long time ago. Drew lines through the faces of a number of characters to show where their eyes are. It was inconclusive, since Vaarsuvius' eyes are actually between the position on the head where Roy's, Durkon's, and Belkar's are, and where Haley's, Celia's, and Miko's are. (Deliberately, I'm sure.)

lio45

2010-01-07, 10:53 AM

Someone did bring up Vaarsuvius' eye placement a long time ago. Drew lines through the faces of a number of characters to show where there eyes are. It was inconclusive, since Vaarsuvius' eyes are actually between the position on the head where Roy's, Durkon's, and Belkar's are, and where Haley's, Celia's, and Miko's are. (Deliberately, I'm sure.)

1) I'm soooo not surprised it was already brought up a long time ago.

2) Could you link us to that work?

I assume the faces were taken in early comics, such as http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0020.html

I didn't draw lines myself, but the placement seems much closer to the male position (approx. from my own eyes).

Kish

2010-01-07, 10:58 AM

2) Could you link us to that work?
Too long ago to find it on a search, I'm afraid (No Cure for the Paladin Blues strips were the ones going up online then). It would probably be replicable by someone with more technical knowledge than I, though.

lio45

2010-01-07, 11:25 AM

Too long ago to find it on a search, I'm afraid (No Cure for the Paladin Blues strips were the ones going up online then). It would probably be replicable by someone with more technical knowledge than I, though.

Then I may eventually do it myself, if I ever feel like I don't have anything better to do with my time.

Samael7

2010-01-08, 03:53 PM

Has anyone yet coined the term "Schrodinger's Wang?" Because I so want that to be me. :smallbiggrin:

"V's wang is in a state of thereness and not-thereness, until someone checks and collapses the field."

Maximum Zersk

2010-01-11, 09:52 PM

shannoby

2010-01-12, 08:33 AM

has anyone noticed that the drawing of females have a round bottom while males are drawn with square bottoms, i don't know how to link since i just sign up but Haley and other girls are easily found and you can see for yourself. now you may say that V is wearing robes and we cant tell, but V's partner has a square bottom in normal clothing making him male, if he was female he would have round as they typically have round bottoms if not in heavy armor. this might not say much about V him/herself but would at least help us know the sex of V's life partner

Kish

2010-01-12, 03:28 PM

Where did I see arguments like that before?

--I mean other than about Vaarsuvius and his/her mate?

--Oh, right. It was "the blue guy." Obviously male due to square body.

Gitman00

2010-01-12, 03:29 PM

warrl

2010-01-12, 04:24 PM

Doesn't quite hold up... Miko had a square bottom.

A distortion caused by the class-feature stick (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0223.html).

Gandariel

2010-01-12, 04:56 PM

i suppose this has already been pointed out, but...

a group of 6 people with 1 only single female? naaah

well, obviously in D&D campaigns most of the PCs are male, because most of the players are male.
but in OOTS if you notice Rich puts females in Azure city's army, between the Ghost Martyrs, etc.
meaning that in his world both males and females have (about) the same play.
so, a 6-person party with only 1 female?
naah

Grugnar

2010-01-12, 05:01 PM

I'm sure this has been addressed before, I'd like to know what's been said about it.

In http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0186.html, we see a part of V's upper body undressed. The lines on both the front and back are clearly straight, like they are on shirtless males. Females get a curved back, right up to their head, even Miko when she has a square bottom.

Meg

2010-01-12, 05:31 PM

greenstave

2010-01-13, 07:16 AM

If this has been posted, then I apologize. Placing in spoiler tags because the info comes from one of the books that someone may not yet have read.

In the most recent book, Don't Split the Party, on every commentary page where the author talks about V, he does so using "him/her", or "himself/herself" etc. I didn't go through all instances, but the ones I checked, it always seemed that the masculine was first.

However on one of the pages, and I don't recall which since the book is at home, he uses only "her". I read the sentance a couple times, and it seems that the "her" is referring to V.

Did the author accidentally give it away? Did I read the sentance wrong, and the "her" refers to someone else?

lio45

2010-01-14, 12:05 AM

Figured I'd move this here (see bottom of post).

I couldn't quote Lira's post that did contain links to each of those comics, since the other thread is closed, so the links are now gone as I copied/pasted the list.

I also happened to find one that was missing from the list:
OOTS #664 - Durkon: Aye, put 'im down, I'm almost done 'ere...

Interestingly enough, V's been referred to as male by, in chronological order, Roy, Elan, Belkar, Durkon, Roy, Durkon, Durkon.

As female by... no Order member, ever. Just pointing out.

--------------------------------------------------
Instances of Vaarsuvius Being Referred to As a Male:
OOTS #9 - Roy: V-man is casting Identify.
OOTS #87 - Elan: Unless he's half-dromedary...
OOTS #111 - Belkar: Hey, I didn't tell the elf to fail his Will save against ghast paralyzation. He did that on his own, with no consideration of how it would affect me.
OOTS #252 - Sabine: The elf dude is old and highly skilled at magic... and an apprentice would be young and barely competent!
OOTS #306 - Wizard: Should we tell him about the 350 gp worth of ink he used?
Other Wizard: No, let him sleep it off.
OOTS #508 - Durkon: I suppose. Or 'e's just dedicated to winning.
OOTS #631 - Qarr: I'll get right on that, Mr. Elf, sir.
OOTS #638 - Nero: I think he said...
OOTS #650 - Roy: You need to tell him that I said this was a bad idea!
OOTS #654 - MITD: Excuse me? Mr. Elf?
OOTS #698 - Durkon: 'Fore 'e went wonky thar fer a while.

Instances of Vaarsuvius Being Referred to As a Female:
OOTS #135 - Eve: Hmmm. Y'know, Larry, she might have a point.
OOTS #252 - Nale: We need a wizard or sorcerer or something to square off against the elf chick that follows my idiot brother Elan.
OOTS #385 - Sabine: You got it, sister.
OOTS #637 - Qarr: That ridiculous alternate plan you dangled in front of her would have required a lot of observation to come up with.
OOTS #653 - Tsukiko: Wait- who the hell is that, and why is she fighting Xykon when she looks like she should be asking for a team-up?
Redcloack: She's using an effect called a Soul Splice, which means she's probably using all of her focus just holding on to her power.
OOTS #656 - Qarr: Can't you guys, I don't know, Plane Shift her out of there?

Instances of Vaarsuvius's Androgyny Being Acknowledged:
OOTS #107 - Belkar: Pointy-eared, purple-haired, ambiguously-gendered pain in my ass.
OOTS #173 - Ticketmaster Orc: Your horse, sir or madam.
OOTS #177 - Belkar: You know, if I knew more about reptilian reproductive anatomy, I'm sure this would answer a lot of questions.
OOTS #254 - Nale: Hey! A clearly-established gender identity! He is an Evil Opposite!
OOTS #323 - Belkar: Roy's Spot and Listen checks are too low to watch us all of the time, you androgynous twit.
OOTS #348 - Belkar: The elf can get him- or herself out of trouble if need be, but you can't.
OOTS #442 - Roy: There won't be any place left for introverted dwarves. Or androgynous elves. Or idiotic bards or greedy rogues... or sexy sylphs.
OOTS #599 - Durkon: I dinnae know what's gotten inta 'im. Or 'er, I've ne'er been quite sure.
OOTS #637 - Cedrik: She-
Lee: He? It?
Cedrik: - was just the next customer to come along.
OOTS #652 - Xykon: I don't really want to hear your backstory, Mr.-or-Mrs. Spock.
Xykon: You only have a king or queen showing, but you've got a pair of jacks in the hole, am I right?
OOTS #657 - Xykon: Let's play Hide-and-Seek, just to be sure. I'm "it". Actually, so are you, as near as I can tell.
--------------------------------------------------

Sahaar

2010-01-15, 05:07 PM

I think V's a boy. Why? Because he's married to a woman and has two children. Unless the Elves have somehow figured out how to use magic to reproduce....

Strawberries

2010-01-15, 05:24 PM

I think V's a boy. Why? Because he's married to a woman and has two children. Unless the Elves have somehow figured out how to use magic to reproduce....

I'm sure someone will post this before I finish to type but:
a) V's children are adopted and
b) The sex of V's mate is uncertain as well- nowhere is stated that V's mate is female

Peronally I've always tought of V as male, mainly for the -ius desinence. Classical studies do that to a person :smallsmile:

edit: incredibly not ninja'd!

Poi Sorg

2010-01-16, 12:08 PM

Ooh! Ooh! I know! Mebbe Vaarsuvius is...

A hermaphrodite!

It would explain some things. Maybe (s)he's not either, but both!
:vaarsuvius::vaarsuvius::vaarsuvius:

PallElendro

2010-01-16, 12:11 PM

I say female. The mate doesn't show much, it's boring with one female, and Haley always bunks with V.

ArcanistSupreme

2010-01-18, 08:15 PM

In "No Cure for the Paladin Blues", in the explanation text between comics 174 and 174a, V is referred to exclusively as "he". This is also the compilation prefaced with the statement that the author hadn't slept in 56 hours, indicating that he was in a hurry when finishing up, so he might have slipped up and accidentally revealed V's gender.

That said, it's way funnier to think of him/her as androgynous, so I will continue to do so.

EDIT: Did I kill a thread?

Poi Sorg

2010-01-20, 08:21 PM

Did I kill a thread?

Naaaaaaah. A thread this long? No one man could kill this thread.

No one can stop us now! Muahahahahahahahaha*narf*!!!!:smallbiggrin:

Hey, izzn't "smallbiggrin" an oxymoron? 'Cuz if its a SMALL BIG grin...:confused:

DarklingPerhaps

2010-01-24, 12:56 PM

I think V's mate looks male, which just makes furthers me thinking V's female. But whatever it turns out to 'actually be' I'll probably still think this, because I have since I started reading.

Raw_fishFood

2010-01-24, 02:58 PM

I personally think V is a female. I'm going to admit that my reasons for it are shallow, but this started when I first started reading the comic, and because V's magic was pink, I thought of her as a female. And that's just pretty much been enforced through the story without anything for me really stating otherwise.

However, the biggest reason I think of V as female is her reaction to the Black Dragon's attack on her mate and children. It seemed to be a "Mama Bear" sort of reaction, something of a "How dare you even think of hurting them!", and that pretty much cemented it for me. Although I'll admit that after seeing the movie Taken (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taken_%28film%29) (with Liam Neeson playing an old CIA agent whose daughter is kidnapped), it's not so much a Mama Bear response.

Again, this is just my personally opinion, and how/why the comic has given me the perception of Vaarsuvius as a female.

veti

2010-01-24, 05:04 PM

Interesting confirmation bias in this thread.

It seems that whenever you form an opinion on this, from that moment on, you'll gather evidence to support that opinion, whatever it is. And you're not really open to being persuaded otherwise.

I believe, although I don't have chapter and verse, that Rich has said that V's gender will never be authoritatively revealed, so it seems pretty certain that we'll never agree.

Meg

2010-01-24, 07:23 PM

Y'know, it seems to me that almost everyone thinks of V as being the same gender as they are.

Wind d8/d12

2010-01-25, 11:21 PM

When V and Haley were comparing "Orbs" Look at the expressions! Would I be off the mark in believing that at least Roy and Belkar Believe V is female?
Also, why is it such a big idea? Maybe V is left androgynous to make it easier on the shippers...

multilis

2010-01-25, 11:29 PM

IMO http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0123.html works better if V is female, each gender gets separate room, "the boys eavesdropping".

(Edit: Oops, notice comment above this is referring to same strip)

Wind d8/d12

2010-01-25, 11:48 PM

I love how Roy's expression was pretty puzzled throughout the strip. Maybe he did think V was male?

bsparrow

2010-01-30, 10:58 AM

Interesting confirmation bias in this thread.

It seems that whenever you form an opinion on this, from that moment on, you'll gather evidence to support that opinion, whatever it is. And you're not really open to being persuaded otherwise.

Yep, that's human nature for you.

Personally, I view V as male (original author intention + male body shape), but I'm not going to scoff at people who think V is female. The Giant made V's ambiguous gender a running gag, so he's going to drop teases for both camps, thereby fueling both camps.

Trying to debate something that has no answer is futile.

*joins hands and sings kumbaya* :smalltongue:

icastflare!

2010-01-30, 03:23 PM

Mumei Tensai

2010-01-30, 09:27 PM

When I first started reading the comic, I saw V as male - didn't even think there was any question. Then I read more of the comic and noticed all the ambiguous-gender related comments and started questioning my assumption.

And really I think it just isn't the same with elves as it is with humans. V doesn't even view hirself as a particular gender, I don't think. S/he's just kinda oblivious about anything relating to that which defines a particular gender. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0237.html) And now, after convincing myself of this I honestly can't even imagine V being either gender.

However, I have noticed that certain characters definitely think of V as one gender or the other. For example, I've noticed this most with Roy - from the oft-mentioned v-man thing to a clear differentiation between Haley and everyone else in the group (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0026.html) (in other words he's worried about Haley seeing Elan "invisible", but doesn't seem to care if V does, thus implying that he thinks of V as a guy).

Oh, and one more thing - I've seen a lot of people reference #123 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0123.html) as proof that V is female, but I've always seen that as more implying that V is male - at least until you realize they're referring to gemstones. Then I suppose it is more implying that V's female. I mean seriously, though. V has a smaller set... lower down...

Wow, that post ended up being way longer than I intended.

Oh, and I've decided that we should all refer to V as "ta". Why? 'Cause that's the word for he, she, AND it in Chinese. It covers all the possibilities.

lio45

2010-01-30, 09:58 PM

I always though she was female. I do know the exact differences between elven and human fashion, but It seems to appear that V's mate was more on the male side. While she seems to have longer hair and seems slightly more motherly towards her children ( though her companion also shows this trait.) I personally think it is female, but there is a million beliefs out there so i could be wrong.

"Are the kids' injuries immediately life-threatening? No? Then great, on to actually important business" is what you would call motherly behavior??? You must be kidding.

V's mate doesn't tell us anything. Rich apparently made Kyrie as ambiguously-gendered as he could (and it's a success) + he made sure it's stated in the comic that their kids are adopted. Clearly, absolutely no conclusion to be drawn here. They could be a gay couple, or not.

Rattine

2010-02-03, 10:11 PM

PallElendro

2010-02-03, 10:21 PM

Think of it this way, Vaarsuvius' mate doesn't show much, and she or he bunks with Haley, like most good friends, and usually referred by people as stuff like V-Man, Mr. Elf, an frankly is still shown relatively either V's mate is a guy, or a woman with breast cancer, at least I think that's what it is.

Math_Mage

2010-02-03, 10:24 PM

Personally, I've always thought Vaarsuvius to be a guy. I've tried to picture him/her as a female, but it just doen't seem right. The only confusing thing is why does (s)he always room with Haley? :smallconfused:

AFAIK, hotels charge more for 5+1 room pairs than 4+2. Occam's Razor dictates not reading too much into it.

Nimrod's Son

2010-02-03, 10:58 PM

The only confusing thing is why does (s)he always room with Haley? :smallconfused:
Because they're old friends. I really don't get why so many people find this so hard to believe - I'm male, and I've slept in the same bed as several of my female friends (and far many more times than I could ever count, at that), let alone the same room. Not to mention that V was in a committed, monogamous relationship at the time, which would make him the least likely to pose a "threat" to Haley of everyone in the group.

Gandariel

2010-02-20, 11:48 AM

i'm sure someone has posted all of these arguments, but...

FEMALE
- V is particularly friends with Haley. Haley tells her almost all her secrets; they sleep in the same room

- a 6-people group with 1 only female? mph...

- V's mate looks like a man, his pants are square, alike all men in the comic (but sure, V could be omosexual, their children are adopted)

- Belkar kissed her/him
ok, he was drunk but...
i'm a male, and i wouldn't kiss a male AT ALL, drunk or no drunk

though...
V is not particularly attached to his/her children (barely wants to know if their wounds are lethal...) while Inkirius is.

lio45

2010-02-20, 10:52 PM

i suppose this has already been pointed out, but...

a group of 6 people with 1 only single female? naaah

Actually, it's more like "yaaah", since it's basically certain that the initial OotS party that Rich designed was a group of 5 males + 1 female. Scroll up and read if you want to see compelling arguments.

Dvandemon

2010-02-20, 10:54 PM

By the logic of your third argument, i'm assuming that the brown hair/shirt/pants member of Team Peregrine is female (I've always thought that women in this style have rounded bottoms). While posting this I started wondering why Rich didn't show Miko's body before she was revealed to be a woman (I mean you can wear a hood without covering your body) but maybe i'm just overthinking it.

Math_Mage

2010-02-21, 02:36 AM

i'm sure someone has posted all of these arguments, but...

FEMALE
- V is particularly friends with Haley. Haley tells her almost all her secrets; they sleep in the same room

Gender-neutral, as V is married, and would prefer NOT to share a room with Belkar and Elan whatever xer gender.

- a 6-people group with 1 only female? mph...

4 men, 1 woman, 1 androgynous elf. This doesn't really change whether V is male or female.

- V's mate looks like a man, his pants are square, alike all men in the comic (but sure, V could be omosexual, their children are adopted)

Well, Rich could hardly draw an androgynous character in female clothing...

- Belkar kissed her/him
ok, he was drunk but...
i'm a male, and i wouldn't kiss a male AT ALL, drunk or no drunk

But Belkar does not know V's gender any more than the others do.

though...
V is not particularly attached to his/her children (barely wants to know if their wounds are lethal...) while Inkirius is.

That is a trait of V, more than a trait of a man or a woman. And we do not know whether the same gender roles apply to elven society.

Mando Knight

2010-02-21, 02:45 AM

- Belkar kissed her/him
ok, he was drunk but...
i'm a male, and i wouldn't kiss a male AT ALL, drunk or no drunk

Belkar can't tell the difference while he was sober, and he was drunk drunk (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0316.html) when he did it. I don't know who you think you are, but if you're that drunk, your inhibitions are already gone.

Asta Kask

2010-02-21, 04:57 AM

Belkar can't tell the difference while he was sober, and he was drunk drunk (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0316.html) when he did it. I don't know who you think you are, but if you're that drunk, your inhibitions are already gone.

I'm a straight male and I've kissed a man. I wasn't even drunk - it was part of a truth-or-dare. So, yeah, not a good indicator.

Besides: Belkar has Craft Disturbing Mental Image. He may have used that (successfully, as it turned out) on V.

drengnikrafe

2010-02-21, 02:09 PM

I find V to be female. If you ask me for legitimate backup reasons, I will be able to supply none. I came to this conclusion while I was reading V gender debates, back when there wasn't an official one, and got tired of them. I made this conclusion based, not upon logic or reason of any sort, but just because I wanted a definite conclusion in my head.
I also believe every person should reach their own conclusion, and not be swayed by such silly things as logic, or people telling them what to beleieve.

In regards to the "6 person party, only 1 female", there are many groups (or, at least, my group) in which it is a miracle to even get one girl. 2 girls in the same group is unheard of to the people I game with.

Asta Kask

2010-02-21, 02:36 PM

I think V is a drone servant of the Queen Elf.

TriForce

2010-02-21, 02:42 PM

I think V is a drone servant of the Queen Elf.

LIVE FOR THE SWARM!

sorry, couldnt resist

Asta Kask

2010-02-21, 02:53 PM

I think we need to take the theory that elves are like bees or mole rats, with a hive structure, a drone worker caste and an Elven Queen. And V is a drone and as such has no gender.

It has about as much evidence as the other two theories.

Zxo

2010-02-21, 05:46 PM

I am in the "no gender at all" camp. In a world where items like Girdle of F/M exist, someone unhappy or uncomfortable with their gender can just get one of these and put them on, and a wizard of V's level could easily afford one. V also isn't a chaotic or unsecure type who would object to being classified just because this may make them subject to stereotypes.

V does not act like someone who is male or female and is working hard to hide it or deny it. V acts like someone to whom the very notion of gender is foreign and hard to understand - there was a strip with V saying something like "I do not think I'm qualified to answer that question" when asked about something gender-related. I think V is part of a bigger group (as the existence of hir equally undefined mate shows) or even subrace of elves who do not have a gender as we understand it. This may be a genetic mutation, such cases exist in real world (remember that South African athlete), of course in real world this is rare, but in V's nation/subrace a particular combination of genes that makes you a hermaphrodite may have become widespread and a norm. Or, like Asta Kask said, a hive structure with one queen bearing children and drone couples adopting and raising them.

It'd be cool to see this society (or at least V explaining it) somewhere at the end of the story. Rich said he wouldn't reveal V's gender, but that would fall under "not revealing it" :smalltongue:

warrl

2010-02-22, 01:51 AM

In regards to the "6 person party, only 1 female", there are many groups (or, at least, my group) in which it is a miracle to even get one girl. 2 girls in the same group is unheard of to the people I game with.

In the group I play with, for the last year or so of the previous campaign we had three females.

Of course, that was out of twelve people (including DM).

Currently we have nine people, one female.

Cisturn

2010-02-24, 01:18 AM

I think V is a girl, i just think it's better story writing if the wife were to leave the family and embark on an epic quest solely because I've seen the reverse x amount of time

albis

2010-02-24, 02:54 AM

Hi everyone :)
Personally, I initially thought about V as a male because in one of the very first strips (the one when they found the girdle of femininity-masculinity, I think) Roy referred to him/her as "V-man"... but then, going forward, I saw that it was onlyRoy's guess on Vaarsuuvius gender, and the apparently male body shape doesn't really mean anything...
...I should know, people can't tell what gender I am half the time X°D
And I've started to find it incredibly amusing, so much so that I nowadays let people believe their first guess, whatever it is, is right... Not my fault they can't tell.
Back on topic, having initially though about V as a male, I automatically refer to Vaarsuvius as a "him", but that's just because "it" would be rather offensive, V could very well be a "she"...
I can only hope it will be revealed before the very end. XD You know, a dramatic last-episode revelation Elan would be so proud of... X°D
Until that, I think that -I can't remember who was it that said it- it's natural that, given V's ambiguity, people tend to identify him/her being of their same gender, so there'll never actually be an end to this debate.
It's kind of useless, since only the Giant knows the truth, but this kind of conversation raises interesting points about people's perception of genders and sexuality. =)

onthetown

2010-02-24, 09:53 AM

i'm sure someone has posted all of these arguments, but...

FEMALE
- V is particularly friends with Haley. Haley tells her almost all her secrets; they sleep in the same room

...

V is not particularly attached to his/her children (barely wants to know if their wounds are lethal...) while Inkirius is.

-My best friend is male; I tell him all my secrets and when we have sleepovers we sleep in the same room, and (since this may come up) he is not gay or bi.

-I know plenty of fathers that are more attached to their children than their wives or their children's mothers, mine included.

Just thought I'd contribute that. I'm following the debate, I just have nothing to add to it except that without seeming incredibly closed-minded or one-sided.

Personally, though, I just find V to be a girl... simply because that's what I thought s/he was when I first started reading the comic. I didn't clue in to the ambiguous elf jokes until later on.

AkazilliaDeNaro

2010-02-24, 10:18 AM

i was once told that v is a hallucination/optical illusion

but in a particularly magial point of view. v is the only one in the party that is elven and also magical so i do belive it to be entirely possible that v is either both neither or is able to switch genders.

okay i got 3 bottles of brain bleach use them wisely

Petrocorus

2010-02-27, 11:08 AM

I read this thread and i am really astonished that so many people keep bringing the same arguments about V rooming with Haley.

The other choice is to room with FOUR peoples, including Durkon (a stinky Dwarf, since all Dwarves are stinky, In an Arrogant Elf's Opinion, plus, y'know, Drwarf!); Elan (an utterly moronic moron IAEO) and Belkar (who is, y'know, Belkar). So, rooming with Haley is surely the best choice for V in V's mind.

On Haley's part, the fact that she doesn't feel sexually threaten by V doesn't mean V is a woman or a gay man. Maybe it's because V's married, maybe because An Arrogant Elf like him would not be attracted to a ''lesser being'' like a human (IAEO), or maybe she just trust V on that matter.
And remember the panel 1 of strip #123, this is Haley who decide that V room with her. And in #225, V probably just can't stand to room with Miko.

And the fact that V is married and room with a girl seems no more and no less proper than if V would room with men, according to his own understanding of genders and sexual relationships.

It seems that a lot of people here really cannot understand that a straight man and a straight woman can room together without having a romantic relationship or a very serious reason.

And speaking of #123, the comic of the strip relieves on the misunderstanding by the eavesdroppers, who don't know V's gender. Whether it's funnier if V is a female or male is a matter of taste, so, not relevant for The Question. The funnier argument is also a matter of taste for The Unfortunate Event of the new year's eve.

Stone Heart

2010-02-28, 08:58 PM

Oh, and one more thing - I've seen a lot of people reference #123 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0123.html) as proof that V is female, but I've always seen that as more implying that V is male - at least until you realize they're referring to gemstones. Then I suppose it is more implying that V's female. I mean seriously, though. V has a smaller set... lower down...

I don't see how someone could think that V (were s/he referring to a part of hir anatomy as misinterpreted by the boys) was referring to testicles instead of breasts, because the way its worded ("I'm surprised you don't have your own pair") seems to be implying "you should have boobs too, since I view you as a girl" (again from the misinterpretation viewpoint) not to mention I don't see why any guy would say he has his own pair if they were referring to breasts.

But again that comic doesn't actually imply anything either way it just implys that the guys were misinterpreting the conversation.

Kewpa

2010-03-01, 02:15 AM

There isn't much of a reason to reveal V's gender, since this web comic is above all comedic in nature. It wouldn't be very funny if they revealed his/her's gender, unless Rich wrote a *very* clever joke around it. Not that that's not within Mr. Burlew's grasp...

Though, from strip 1 I've always imagined him as male. I have no particular reason.

Chainsaw Hobbit

2010-03-05, 10:48 PM

V is DEFINITELY female!

Amon Star

2010-03-06, 03:28 AM

V is DEFINITELY female!

Care to expand on that statement?

ZerglingOne

2010-03-06, 03:50 AM

Kish

2010-03-06, 08:01 AM

This hinges on the belief that Belkar knows what sex Vaarsuvius is, which he's established that he doesn't.

Zanaril

2010-03-06, 08:16 AM

This hinges on the belief that Belkar knows what sex Vaarsuvius is, which he's established that he doesn't.

Maybe it's because of conflicting signals? Maybe V smells female, but Belkar thinks V looks and acts more like a male?

Chainsaw Hobbit

2010-03-08, 03:24 PM

Asta Kask

2010-03-08, 03:31 PM

Please note in comic 252 nale calls V an "elf chic", V's spouse looks male (629 is a good example) and unless they are a gay couple than that is a good case, V rooms with haley and since haly likes elan than that further enforces that V is female. :smallwink:

The Giant has said that other people react to their perceptions of V's gender, which is not the same as V's actual gender. And they may well be a gay couple - they have adopted kids, after all.

Chainsaw Hobbit

2010-03-08, 03:44 PM

You know what? I've changed my mind.
V is a gay male.

licoot

2010-03-08, 03:48 PM

You know what? I've changed my mind.
V is a gay male.

then why did she stay in a room with Haley when they stay at that hotel with miko, shes a woman

Kish

2010-03-08, 03:49 PM

Haley does not know what sex Vaarsuvius is. Neither does Nale, Sabine, Belkar, or anyone else who has referred to him/her with one particular sex onstage.

Petrocorus

2010-03-08, 04:16 PM

then why did she stay in a room with Haley when they stay at that hotel with miko, shes a woman

Seriously, can you stop bringing this argument. This mean nothing. I replied to this argument just on last page, and i was not the first one at all.

Wreckingrocc

2010-03-08, 04:25 PM

Vaarsuvius = http://shrines.rpgclassics.com/gba/fe7/image/erk.gif

http://shrines.rpgclassics.com/gba/fe7/image/erk.gif = Male

Therefore, Vaarsuvius = Male.

Secondly, the elven gender debate is never funny when it's about females. It's far funnier to make fun of them as effeminate males than effeminate, if slightly ambiguous, females.

Lord Bingo

2010-03-09, 06:57 PM

Elves are gay.

TheMinxTail

2010-03-11, 10:57 AM

Well, I wrote a novel wherein the strongest wizard in the world, while being born male (though being too mentally ancient despite appearance to remember that fact) was actually without a gender. At some point, he had invoked a ritual that made wiped all signs of gender, and even much of his humanity in time, from his soul, allowing him more neutral access to his magic. The reason I went with that as part of his backstory is because many cultures have percieved the soul to optimally be in balance when identity, particularly gender, is neutral - all and yet nothing - such as how many of the Egyptian gods, at leats the ones that were more nigh-all powerful or had very broadly defined domains, were hermaphadites. Perhaps the same is with Vaarsuvius. I haven't read Origin of the PCs, though I doubt either way that V pulled off such experiments in his/her youth, but mostly elves are regarded as most proficient with magic in any campaign setting, and I'm not sure if a single elf so far in OOTS has had a clear gender (maybe I should read it for a third time, but just look at V's family). For all we know, elves produce asexually!

"But MinxTail, what about that Pompei the Half-Elf?" Okay, maybe all elves are a bit of both. I don't know, ask the people who make bad fanfiction, those guys are genius at figuring out the 'subtext' that matches their narrative.

TheMinxTail

2010-03-11, 11:00 AM

Elves are gay.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s160/p0ke_me/no20u.jpg

lio45

2010-03-11, 11:05 AM

Please note in comic 252 nale calls V an "elf chic"

OK... so you did manage to miss that Comic 252's reference to V is ALL ABOUT the fact that, in the same conversation, Nale calls V an elf chick and Sabine calls V an elf dude, all of that casually.

:facepalm:

Try reading the comic, then you can lecture us on the contents.

Asta Kask

2010-03-11, 04:26 PM

then why did she stay in a room with Haley when they stay at that hotel with miko, shes a woman

Because she would rather stick her hand into a hornet's nest than spend the night in the same room as Miko? Gay V looking at her ta-tas means nothing. Miko spending the night chanting and burning incense does.

Vulkan

2010-03-11, 04:33 PM

I'm going to say V is a she due to the fact a demonic lower plain force... eer demon referred to V as a she and I think I will side with he being a de-monic force...

Now pardon me I think there is a bee buzzing about and it's annoying me.

Bartonar

2010-03-30, 06:41 PM

Bartonar

2010-03-30, 06:43 PM

Because she would rather stick her hand into a hornet's nest than spend the night in the same room as Miko? Gay V looking at her ta-tas means nothing. Miko spending the night chanting and burning incense does.

No. V isnt Gay regardless.:smallmad:

Methuzeld

2010-03-30, 06:59 PM

Personally, I've thought V to be a "she" this whole time. There's certainly a lot of evidence for V being a "he", but there is also some for V being a "she" as well. It's up to Rich to give the verdict, though that's not likely since there's still comedy to milk from the neutral gender concepts.

Amon Star

2010-03-31, 06:38 AM

No. V isnt Gay regardless.:smallmad:

And why, pray tell, do you find that suggestion so offensive?

Petrocorus

2010-03-31, 10:07 AM

She, i say without brackets, must be a she, since... remember waaay back at the inn? i can't remember the strip number at the time. Hayley and V. were in the same room. Essentially, when you plan rooming arrangements, its all the guys in 1 room, all the girls in another. People in relationships/wedlock are an exception.

Did you even read this page?

For the OotS' sake :smallmad:, can someone explain why so many people think that the fact that V rooms with Haley is an obvious definitive absolute evidence that V is a woman despite all the replies that have already been made about this? :smallconfused:

hihidude

2010-03-31, 02:51 PM

All jokes in the comic aside. I have arrived at the conclusion that Vaarsuvius is female. Why? Well, we have everyone's favorite psychotic halfling to thank for that. V was at least partially correct when she came up with the "Belkar only has lust and hate" theory. Belkar has shown time and time again that he is 100% capable of discerning people by their scent. He is also capable of sniffing out a whore house which would likely smell reminiscent of female. (and other things :smallfrown:)

Also, marked in DStP, there is a dark green line between V and Belkar indicating a "wants to shtup/shtupping." Belkar has also shown he is straight (and narrow for that matter) and thus would not desire a male. V is therefore female.

I always wondered about that. It gave a really big hint. However, i came to the same conclusion a different way that everyone here will probably shoot down. I am a very big Watersmurf fan. She has fanfictions out about Redcloak/Vaarsuvius and V gets pregnant. I think that that implies feminity even if it is not author written. Oh of course there is a way to counter everyones assumptions. The ambiguous gender card in The OotS Adventure Game

Nimrod's Son

2010-03-31, 03:42 PM

It gave a really big hint.
Rich has NEVER given anything that can be considered a "hint", because he's going out of his way to make it as ambiguous as possible. Belkar's attraction to V means nothing, because Belkar doesn't know what sex V is. That line tells us more about Belkar than it does about V.

I am a very big Watersmurf fan. She has fanfictions out about Redcloak/Vaarsuvius and V gets pregnant. I think that that implies feminity even if it is not author written.
Watersmurf is a poster on these boards like the rest of us; she doesn't have access to the author's thought process. She's decided that V is female for the purposes of her own fanfiction, but that means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. However popular her character of V's child has become (and from the casual glances at the CP thread that I've taken, that does seem to be quite popular), that character simply does not exist in the OotS universe. There is no way we're ever going to see a pregnant V in the comic, because the very concept goes against everything Rich has spent so long establishing.

Did you even read this page?

For the OotS' sake :smallmad:, can someone explain why so many people think that the fact that V rooms with Haley is an obvious definitive absolute evidence that V is a woman despite all the replies that have already been made about this? :smallconfused:
Sadly, there are altogether too many posters here who think that stating their own opinion is a LOT more important than reading what others have to say.

lio45

2010-03-31, 11:34 PM

I am a very big Watersmurf fan. She has fanfictions out about Redcloak/Vaarsuvius and V gets pregnant.

Well, I'm a big lio45 fan, and he thinks V is male. So there you go. :smalltongue:

Nimrod's Son, I wouldn't say never, and especially not in caps. Rich started going out of his way to make V as ambiguously-gendered as possible only a while after the comic was started. There actually ARE hints...

Petrocorus

2010-04-01, 12:17 AM

Sadly, there are altogether too many posters here who think that stating their own opinion is a LOT more important than reading what others have to say.

I personally indulge myself with the 40 pages of this thread before posting in it. Specifically to avoid saying something that as already been said.
I don't expect everybody to do this, but they don't even read the very page they are posting in, that's exaggerated, i believe. I really get annoyed by this since the last page.

And i would be totally open to discuss on this particular point if anyone was, y'know, bringing any argument on.

Deca

2010-04-01, 02:02 AM

I always wondered about that. It gave a really big hint. However, i came to the same conclusion a different way that everyone here will probably shoot down. I am a very big Watersmurf fan. She has fanfictions out about Redcloak/Vaarsuvius and V gets pregnant. I think that that implies feminity even if it is not author written.

I see. Yes, it does imply feminity. But only in Watersmurf's fics. As you yourself pointed out, they're not author written. I fail to see how you drew the line between something in a fanfic to actual canon.

Nimrod's Son

2010-04-01, 02:33 AM

Nimrod's Son, I wouldn't say never, and especially not in caps. Rich started going out of his way to make V as ambiguously-gendered as possible only a while after the comic was started. There actually ARE hints...
I meant since he decided to make V gender-ambiguous, obviously. But really, anything before that is no more a "hint" than him "hinting" that Belkar is male. It's not like he was handing out cryptic little clues; things were just meant to be taken at face value.

After he decided on ambiguity, he's gone to great lengths to keep it that way. Although I'm not sure exactly why you're pointing this out to me anyway - it's hardly news. It wasn't very long ago that you and I were talking about this same point, just a few pages back (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4918&page=35), remember?

das_hermit

2010-04-03, 11:12 AM

One more for the Male camp, mostly based on what little we see of his relationship with his similarly androgynous mate, and that if V had a set gender initially and has no breasts or curves in the initial strips then that suggests male to me. Besides that, most of the Opposites in the Linear Guild - aside from Durkan's dwarf chick whose name I forget - have been of the same sex as their counterparts, and Zz'dtri was apparently male.
But then, I could be wrong - the Giant has done a pretty good job of obscuring it, and I'm a guy myself so in the absence of any decent clues to the contrary I have a default setting of assuming male.

Tyrion L.

2010-04-03, 07:58 PM

Chainsaw Hobbit

2010-04-06, 07:37 PM

V is male because a lot of the jokes wouldn't be funny if V was female, you can't argue with humor.
I used to think V was female but than I re-watched the LOTR movies and it turned out Lagolas is a guy (omg)!
Than I looked over some old OOTS comics, questioning my old beliefs about V's gender and the truth just hit me.
So I take back all my old arguments about V being female. :smallwink:

Kish

2010-04-06, 08:35 PM

V is male because a lot of the jokes wouldn't be funny if V was female,

Given that all the gender-based jokes about Vaarsuvius hinge on the absence of a defined gender, this is neither more nor less true than the statement, "a lot of the jokes wouldn't be funny if V was male."

Flappi

2010-04-24, 09:38 AM

V's spouse looks male (629 is a good example)
That, and strip #670. Two members of the elf squad have straight line for the bottom of their body, one has a curve instead. Even if it's not stated, we can assume that :
* elves never have breast.
* but elves have a secondary sex characteristic, the bottom of their body.
Which qualify V's mate to be male.

But that proves nothing. The question is not V's mate's gender, but V's gender.

Amon Star

2010-04-26, 03:18 PM

That, and strip #670. Two members of the elf squad have straight line for the bottom of their body, one has a curve instead. Even if it's not stated, we can assume that :
* elves never have breast.
* but elves have a secondary sex characteristic, the bottom of their body.
Which qualify V's mate to be male.

But that proves nothing. The question is not V's mate's gender, but V's gender.

Some Elven females have breasts. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html)

Pie Eater

2010-04-26, 07:15 PM

I think Vaarsuvius is a girl based on comic 123
the joke wouldn't be as funny otherwise

i have always thought V is a girl but my friends think differently

Crystalline

2010-05-24, 10:07 PM

I can't believe I haven't posted on here.
So while everyone is stating their opinions, I might as well throw mine in.

Personally, I have always thought of V as a male character. The fact that there would only be one female in the party, the cold calculating tact, many things just stuck to me as being male. Now, this may be just my own opinion as when I first saw him my thought was "oh, male character."

But honestly, it doesn't matter. The whole point of V's character is that s/he really has no gender. That makes up the best jokes, the best lines that revolve around him/ her.

Example: The joke in comic #223.

Would that be as funny if we knew V's gender? No, never. I smile every time I read that last panel. If anything was truly meant to give V's character away, every good joke about that trait would immediately die. I don't want to see that happen.
V's my favorite character ever for any form of media. Partly because of his/her lines and the fact s/he is so well developed with the gender ambiguity.

So for the sake of character development, things are better left unsaid.
Also for me it just makes my life easier to think of V in male terms.
But also... speculation is also great fun to watch, so I leave it at that.

Gitman00

2010-05-30, 10:19 AM

A little history: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=267672#post267672

As you can see, the "V's gender" debate began immediately after Strip #9 was posted. From reading the Giant's response, it seems that V was originally conceived as male, but was made ambiguously-gendered just to mess with the forumgoers. :smallbiggrin:

dgnslyr

2010-05-30, 11:37 PM

The imp refers to V as "her" here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0656.html).

Leecros

2010-05-30, 11:54 PM

Some Elven females have breasts. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html)

clearly they're implants :smallwink:

Amon Star

2010-05-31, 04:18 AM

The imp refers to V as "her" here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0656.html).

So that's just the Imp's opinion.
clearly they're implants :smallwink:

An interesting theory...

Cizak

2010-06-01, 12:48 PM

DoctorJest

2010-06-01, 01:07 PM

V is a running gag about gender ambiguity. Therefore, as OOTS characters do not really have an objective existence, I don't think it's at all necessary for V to actually have a gender, per se, beyond "Ambiguous". Like SNL's "It's Pat!" the character is obviously constructed in a way to leave the viewer - and the other characters - with the sense that they'll never quite know the truth.

The reason for this seems to be the general joke that elves all look kinda alike, regardless of what gender they are: thin, shapeless, and pretty. So I don't believe V actually has, nor requires, an objective "true" gender.

DoctorJest

2010-06-01, 01:10 PM

The imp refers to V as "her" here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0656.html).

Various characters refer to V by various gender pronouns, both masculine and feminine, throughout the book. Every time one does so, someone marches into the forum triumphant that they know The Truth and have to be reminded that any characters in the book refering to V as a particular gender is merely that character's opinion and is not definitive.

Nimrod's Son

2010-06-01, 05:43 PM

This could be true, since Lirian is the only elf we've ever seen with bewbs.
Not the only one (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0497.html). There are a few others dotted around too, particularly in the prequels.

It's easily explained away with "All elves look androgynous, except for a small minority of particularly curvy ones which are obviously female". No big deal.

Various characters refer to V by various gender pronouns, both masculine and feminine, throughout the book. Every time one does so, someone marches into the forum triumphant that they know The Truth and have to be reminded that any characters in the book refering to V as a particular gender is merely that character's opinion and is not definitive.
Quite. I often wonder how these people know V is supposed to be androgynous in the first place, considering that they've apparently never read any of the comic before. :smallsigh:

deathali'helper

2010-06-02, 07:05 PM

ISNT IT ClaRRIFIED!!! he wont reviel it until the vary end, so just leave it.:smallfurious:

icastflare!

2010-06-02, 07:09 PM

Trust me, this debate will never stop. Its all up to opinion. I personally believe female but this will never stop, considering it has 4 threads dedicated for it already.

Tar Palantir

2010-07-26, 11:00 PM

clearly they're implants :smallwink:

I dunno, I'm pretty sure a druid would stick with the all-natural look :smallwink:.

super dark33

2010-07-29, 06:01 PM

vaarsavius must no longer be referred as 'she' or 'he', but shklee,
and instead of his or her, its shkler,
so shkler gender is undefienated

Cealocanth

2010-07-29, 06:38 PM

vaarsavius must no longer be referred as 'she' or 'he', but shklee,
and instead of his or her, its shkler,
so shkler gender is undefienated

:smallconfused: Uh, I disagree. Where does the k come from?

V seems to have a female personality. Strong feelings for family, only willing to sleep in the same room with Haley...

However, according to the art of the comic, V has a rectangular body, making them male.

So, you decide. My vote's for female.

Private-Prinny

2010-07-29, 06:47 PM

:smallconfused: Uh, I disagree. Where does the k come from?

Futurama: The Beast with a Billion Backs. Gender-specific pronouns are useless in the eyes of Yivo.

Cire II

2010-07-29, 08:18 PM

When I first started reading the comic I thought V was female, but now think that either elves don't have genders or V doesn't but thats only my opinion I'm most likely wrong.

Shale

2010-07-29, 08:29 PM

We know elves have genders because of Lirian, and to a lesser extent Pompey.

Boogastreehouse

2010-07-29, 10:37 PM

clearly they're implants :smallwink:

This could be true, since Lirian is the only elf we've ever seen with bewbs. But that just makes me wonder... what on earth do they use for implants in a medieval/fantasy.world?

Obviously they're coconuts.

Where'd you get the coconuts?

We found them.

vaarsavius must no longer be referred as 'she' or 'he', but shklee,
and instead of his or her, its shkler,
so shkler gender is undefienated

Dude, it's not going to catch on... just give it up...

factotum

2010-07-30, 01:41 AM

vaarsavius must no longer be referred as 'she' or 'he', but shklee,
and instead of his or her, its shkler,
so shkler gender is undefienated

No. Using made-up gender pronouns is just irritating.

squidbreath

2010-07-30, 02:41 AM

Some Elven females have breasts. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html)

Yes, but I assume that it doesn't apply to high elves.

Capt Spanner

2010-07-31, 12:49 PM

However, according to the art of the comic, V has a rectangular body, making them male.

Furthermore, if you look at eye placement, the female eyes centre around 1/2 way down the head (head is 45px diameter, eyes are 23px from top) while male eyes are 1/3rd of the way down (15px).

In comic 9, at least, V's eyes are 15px from the top of the comic, consistent with V being male.

Later comics seem to have moved his/her eyes to 19px, splitting the difference between the two.

In my mind these days, Vaarsuvius is an intersexual, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex) although I've always tended towards using the feminine pronoun for her.

brilliantlight

2010-07-31, 01:30 PM

Well, since Haley bunked with V in the Hotel I am voting for female. V was married at the time and I don't see V sleeping alone in the same room with a member of the opposite sex while married. I think the same of Haley. Although a thief there is no evidence at all that Haley is a bedhopper. Outside of Elan (And it took a long time for that to happen) she has never slept with anyone. Sleeping alone in the same room as a married man is unlikely, I would think.

Cizak

2010-07-31, 02:33 PM

ISNT IT ClaRRIFIED!!! he wont reviel it until the vary end, so just leave it.:smallfurious:

1) Chill out, dude. The people here are having a friendly discussion, no need to shout.

2) You're wrong. He will never reveal it.

Shadoww0lf

2010-07-31, 07:26 PM

I know I'm late to this. (Heck, I'm flat out late with joining the forums here period!) My two cents has always been that V is a she.

My reasoning: Strip 123 where V and Haley are being overheard by the guys next door. I also like to think it keeps with the Giant's tendency to break stereotypes such as a Chaotic Evil Ranger as a protagonist and a Lawful Good Paladin as an antagonist. Killing the (seemingly) main character for an entire book. It seems that a power hungry female elf would be something that breaks the mold of what I think of as typical for fantasy settings and elves. Of course, that's probably more my perception than anything else.

Now watch, I'll end up completely wrong and look like I have feet in my mouth if/when V is revealed to be a guy!

TheMac04

2010-08-01, 02:06 AM

When I first started reading the strip, I assumed V was male. I was actually surprised when I found out that people were confused by his gender. And when Inky got involved, I saw her as female. Their children also both appeared to have clearly established genders to me. In general, I just always thought of them that way. That's the way they look to me.

Amon Star

2010-08-01, 07:08 AM

V seems to have a female personality. Strong feelings for family,

:smallconfused: Are you aware of how sexist that is?
Yes, but I assume that it doesn't apply to high elves.

Why not?

BridgeCity

2010-08-01, 08:04 AM

:smallconfused: Are you aware of how sexist that is?

Seconded. I really don't like the assumption that caring for your family is a female personality trait, it's offensive.

As for my two cents, I've always seen V as female, it's just what I assumed when I began reading, and nothing has come along to force a change of view for me.

TheMac04

2010-08-01, 11:24 AM

Hooray for unwaranted sexism!

Cizak

2010-08-01, 01:21 PM

V seems to have a female personality. Strong feelings for family.

Oh yes, very strong feelings for the family. Panel 3 and 4. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0639.html) Or did you mean positive feelings?

And yeah, that was a really sexist statement.

Nimrod's Son

2010-08-01, 08:03 PM

It does seem like about 75% of the reasons why people think V is whichever gender comes down to sexist nonsense.

To be honest, I have no idea why I keep clicking on this thread. I know full well that V's sex will never be revealed and I'm perfectly happy with that. I myself have no opinion either way and I have no interest in finding out what everyone else's are.

Just rubbernecking, most likely.

TheMac04

2010-08-01, 08:08 PM

It does seem like about 75% of the reasons why people think V is whichever gender comes down to sexist nonsense.

To be honest, I have no idea why I keep clicking on this thread. I know full well that V's sex will never be revealed and I'm perfectly happy with that. I myself have no opinion either way and I don't care what everyone else's are.

Just rubbernecking, most likely.

I disagree, I think it's really based on what they immediately think of when they see him.

Is there a word that means the opposite of Devil's Advocate?

Nimrod's Son

2010-08-01, 08:10 PM

I disagree, I think it's really based on what they immediately think of when they see him.
I'm guessing you haven't read the whole thread then. Or the three that came before it.

Is there a word that means the opposite of Devil's Advocate?
Devil's Opponent? Angel's Advocate?

TheMac04

2010-08-01, 08:26 PM

I'm guessing you haven't read the whole thread then. Or the three that came before it.

Nah, I'm lazy like that. So okay, changed my mind, people suck. Oh well.

Devil's Opponent? Angel's Advocate?

I like Angel's Advocate. It's got a nice ring, and alliteration never hurt anyone.

veti

2010-08-01, 08:37 PM

Is there a word that means the opposite of Devil's Advocate?

There is such a role as "God's advocate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil%27s_advocate)".

But since his (it's always a he) role is to argue with the Devil's Advocate, it might be seen as a self-defeating position to take in this context. :smalltongue:

TheMac04

2010-08-01, 08:43 PM

There is such a role as "God's advocate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil%27s_advocate)".

But since his (it's always a he) role is to argue with the Devil's Advocate, it might be seen as a self-defeating position to take in this context. :smalltongue:

Good thing I'm too stupid to care!

Oh hey, didn't we have a topic at some point....?

Nimrod's Son

2010-08-01, 08:51 PM

Oh hey, didn't we have a topic at some point....?
Right you are.

*clears throat*

I think V is a woman because he wears a dress.

TheMac04

2010-08-01, 09:02 PM

Right you are.

*clears throat*

I think V is a woman because he wears a dress.

There was some much conflicting logic in that sentence that I think I just lost a brain cell.

Rin_Hunter

2010-08-02, 09:08 AM

I think V is a woman because he wears a dress.

I can name at least 3 guys I know that wear dressed, deary. And that's called a "robe" that V wears. :smallbiggrin:

I've always thought that V was male. Just looking at him in the first panel of the first comic made me think "Ok, so there's the Elf Wizard and he's casting a spell."

Let's not get on to what I think of Elves and Arcane magic as a sterotype and how the fluff of the Elves makes me think Druid rather than Wizard and how I hate every example of Elf Wizards except (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0635.html) V (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0639.html) whom I love.

TheMac04

2010-08-02, 09:21 AM

I can name at least 3 guys I know that wear dressed, deary. And that's called a "robe" that V wears. :smallbiggrin:

I've always thought that V was male. Just looking at him in the first panel of the first comic made me think "Ok, so there's the Elf Wizard and he's casting a spell."

Let's not get on to what I think of Elves and Arcane magic as a sterotype and how the fluff of the Elves makes me think Druid rather than Wizard and how I hate every example of Elf Wizards except (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0635.html) V (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0639.html) whom I love.

Awww....damn.

Rin_Hunter

2010-08-02, 09:22 AM

Awww....damn.

Are you an Elf Wizard, by any chance? :smalltongue:

I hate them as a concept, not individually, I suppose it would be better to say.

TheMac04

2010-08-02, 09:26 AM

Are you an Elf Wizard, by any chance? :smalltongue:

I hate them as a concept, not individually, I suppose it would be better to say.

Yeah, I like elves because I've never really understood why someone would want to roleplay a human. You already are a human, I assume, so I never got that. To each his own, I suppose. And wizards are just cool.

Laeranu

2010-08-02, 04:26 PM

Taken from TheJet31619
Ok, I'm going to show my points of why V is a female. One, V hangs out with Haley. And V could be the girlfriend of Haley that she shares her secrets with V. Two, V loves to drag out speeches. Most to all females love to talk and seem to never stop, you should hear my girlfriend *::). (That's not a bad thing, I still love you sweetie :-*) And in "On the Origins of the PCs." and when V breaks the table, Roy says that V is hired. And V says "Bah!! You are clearly only hiring me because I intimidated you intellectually, to the point where your masculine *pride requires you to establish your dominance over my superior mind." *Because a lot of women feel that they are smarter men and that men have dominance over them. So with that, V must be a female.

Brilliant!!!

Jet, you're a genius

V says '... your masculine pride ...' insulting males, which means if she was male she would be insulting herself. And I think that V has way too much pride in herself to ever do that.

Therefore, V must be FEMALE!!!