Playing antipaladin in a group without being a rampaging murderhobo

[Zhentarim]

I feel like antipaladin of calistria is best for working within a party, but the CE requirment seems hard to keep in an adventuring party without a dm telling me "actually, your playing cn, so your losing your powers." Antipaladin may actually be harder than paladin, except I'm trying to get into a theif game, and paladin wouldn't be appropriate. Any suggestions? I always wanted to try antipaladin.

[Necromancy]

The chaotic part is easy, know the rules, then ignore them

The evil part is easy, do no action that benefits others more than you

The antipaladin is harder, as you'll be treating the party like minions. You could be high int and be party leader, but if it were up to me I'd be dumb and let the rogues manipulate you into stuff

[Malroth]

Ham up the cartoon villainy, refer to anyone you like as "minion", and when your overly dramatic low payoff plan is torn apart by your party go with the "i knew that i was testing you" escape

[RavensLand]

I find it typically helps to think of lawful vs chaotic evil as a matter of what benefits me in the future (law) and what benefits me now (chaos).
Your LE character is going I let himself be at a disadvantage for a while knowing that he can work it to his favor later while CE just does whatever feels best for him at the time. So you don't need to go full murderhobo unless you think it would feel right to your character, chaotic evil doesn't have to mean chaotic stupid.

[Tuvarkz]

Well, generally the Antipaladin is about spreading evil and chaos across the land due to the class's Code of Conduct. Archives of Nethys provide some more specifics for Antipaladins of Calistria: http://archivesofnethys.com/DeityDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Calistria
To note, the Insinuator archetype changes an Antipaladin's code of: "Anything, as long as it gives me more power/advances my status" and allows LE/NE alingments as well as CE. The Tyrant Antipaladin is about, well, enforcing the law without any mercy, but locks the antipaladin into LE.

[Spore]

I much rather prefer a sensible approach to the simplified Antipaladin codex along with an intelligent argumentation and a brutal but honest demeanor towards group goals.

"We all kill to advance our own agenda. But other than you I take pride and enjoyment in killing others." When your group and you kill some orcs and ogres to defend a village, your antipaladin probably is very happy to be slaughtering. And you don't need to sacrifice the saved village to your dark lords. You simply spark a bit of religious controversy. "Archfiend X gave me the power to save you while your patron deity Y didn't do anything. Maybe you are better off worshipping my gods and by extension me."

If you help your group to save the world, negotiate the conditions. Try to circumvent these conditions where you see fit and can cover it up but nothing is gained from openly opposing the goody two-shoes who act as your cover. When the good cleric tells you not to kill these orphans you obey. Because selling them into slavery is far more profitable anyway. When your monk refuses pay for the completed quest you might just take a little bit of his share because you had to torture three funny little fey creatures along the way to show you where the heart of the forest is. And you don't enjoy just torturing creatures for information. You much rather prefer to do it for no reason at all.

[Zhentarim]

Well, generally the Antipaladin is about spreading evil and chaos across the land due to the class's Code of Conduct. Archives of Nethys provide some more specifics for Antipaladins of Calistria: http://archivesofnethys.com/DeityDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Calistria
To note, the Insinuator archetype changes an Antipaladin's code of: "Anything, as long as it gives me more power/advances my status" and allows LE/NE alingments as well as CE. The Tyrant Antipaladin is about, well, enforcing the law without any mercy, but locks the antipaladin into LE.
I like insinuator. What would a TN insinuator look like?

[Braininthejar2]

http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Howl_of_the_Devil-Tiger

Perhaps try the devil tiger approach to evil? Be a card-carrying villain, but strive to be great at it?

[Geddy2112]

I feel like antipaladin of calistria is best for working within a party, but the CE requirment seems hard to keep in an adventuring party without a dm telling me "actually, your playing cn, so your losing your powers." Antipaladin may actually be harder than paladin, except I'm trying to get into a theif game, and paladin wouldn't be appropriate. Any suggestions? I always wanted to try antipaladin.

The fundamental problem here is that your DM should not see alignment as prescriptive. Alignment is descriptive, it describes what you have done, not what you have to do. Nobody goes around saying "well, you didn't kill anyone recently, no longer evil". Blood on your hand does not go away that easy, you are just as evil on the days you don't do evil things. It only becomes a problem if you start acting sincerly good, or go out of your way to be not evil. You don't and should engage in stupid evil actions, it just means that you will cross evil lines to get the job done.

In a thief game, this just means you have no issue killing the bank guards, or even innocent people if they get in the way. You might even kill a couple people at the start of the heist so they know you are not screwing around. However, the big point of the heist is the gold. Being an antipaladin of calistra, you might be using theft to get revenge on those who have done you wrong. Or perhaps you need a LOT of gold to fund the grand revenge scheme against somebody of considerable power. To get this, you have no qualms about taking life or breaking rules, nothing will stop you. However, you know that getting yourself killed by being stupid evil means you can't get revenge.

The antipaladin code of conduct allows for some acts of non evil or even good for a greater evil purpose. "An antipaladin must be of chaotic evil alignment and loses all class features except proficiencies if he willingly and altruistically commits good acts. This does not mean that an antipaladin cannot take actions someone else might qualify as good, only that such actions must always be in service of his own dark ends. An antipaladin’s code requires that he place his own interests and desires above all else, as well as impose tyranny, take advantage whenever possible, and punish the good and just, provided such actions don’t interfere with his goals."

Adventuring parties are basically murderhobos that lie about it anyways, so at least your being honest in what you do.

[Thealtruistorc]

Gosh-Jiminey-Norkernuts how many times must I repeat this? Being CE is not a doctor's prescription to play a bloodthirsty idiot.

You wanna serve the gods of oblivion? Then you best be good at it, because they won't think twice about tearing your head off and pinning your eyes on the jacket of your replacement. We care about results, which means we don't want our heralds stabbing a bar's worth of people just to be pounded out of existence by the city guard. Naturally, this requires that your desecration of all the world thought was right to be subtle and nuanced at times.

Calistria's not a hard goddess to represent. Be true to yourself, follow your ambitions and brutally correct anyone who tries to deny you these rights. Who gives a crap about what the rest of the world thinks of ye? You find your own reward somehow and refuse to let anybody push you around. Spread the word of your goddess by showing just how awesome and fun chaos can be as well as how liberating and effective evil is. Live like the armor-clad stud you are, and if anyone accuses you of immorality feel free to put them in their place.

In the end, being an antipaladin means standing for the virtues that most shun, and if those virtues require you to bust some heads then so be it. Being the herald of Calistria means preaching hedonism and fighting the enemies of free expression, so ye won't need to be killing folks helter-skelter in order to keep the job.

Live and let live, die and let die, and if heretics get in the way of this then teach them a lesson. If this ain't simple enough to wrap your head around then I have a bunch of dretches who can serve your goddess better.

[Psyren]

What thealtruisticorc said, and also, Calistria is perhaps the easiest antipaladin to play in a party situation. Here is her Code:




My life is my path, and none will sway me from it.
I devote myself to the pursuit of my passions.
I take what I desire, by trick or by force. If others resent my actions, they may attempt to take vengeance against me.
All slights against me will be repaid tenfold.
I am the instrument of my own justice. If I am wronged, I will take vengeance with my own hands.



Note that none of these require you to kill anyone - just be spiteful and petty. A shopkeeper doesn't compliment you (or outright insults you), intimidate him into a blubbering mess or kick over his stall. A street urchin stands in your path and begs for a coin, hurl it into a cowpat and laugh at his tears, or simply cuff him and send him on his way. Someone gives you a quest to retrieve something for them, jack up the reward upon completion and if they balk, simply keep it for yourself. (Be sneaky about it obviously - they shouldn't be able to prove you have it/stole it.)

They're welcome to take revenge on you themselves by the Code (which generally they aren't strong enough to do.) If however anyone calls the guards on you, simply lie - Antipaladins are charismatic, and Bluff is a class skill. Or just lay low/skip town - the individual you wronged after all has not challenged you with their own strength, so you're quite free to not give them the time of day. But your GM should keep in mind that Golarion is in many cases a Crapsack World, and elite warriors with PC class levels casually mistreating commoners and experts is usually not a jailable offense outside of the most good-aligned nations. Nobles after all do it all the time.