What is the Most DM-proof Character?

[Easy_Lee]

Had this idea for a fun thread, given some things I've witnessed lately. DM styles vary widely, but there are some real killer DMs out there, including a few who ignore RAW when they don't like it. How can we make a character who will do fine in any game, no matter who DMs?

Note that I'm not trying to upset a particular DM or anything. i agree that it's best to find a different game when you have a toxic DM. I just thought this would be a fun idea for a thread, to see if we can make a particularly resilient PC. One the DM would have to drop rocks on to kill.

Some considerations:

Illusions are right out, since many DMs don't like them and will make them not work
Nothing silly, since the DM may not like it

Back before I started DMing, I had a DM refuse to let my gnome grapple humans, period, in spite of RAW and my gnome's athletics expertise

Needs decent mental stats, since the character can otherwise end up mind-controlled
Needs a decent CON score, access to heals, or a good source of temporary HP, for obvious reasons
Assume enemies have perfect counters to your strategies

Moon druids are questionable, since I've heard of DMs whipping out Dominate Beast on them, then command the player to jump into a hazard
Rangers may never find themselves in their favored terrain, or fighting their favored enemy
Paladins may have their vows challenged, though this may not be an issue if you choose the right vow
Draconic sorcerers are questionable, since you may find yourself up against a whole army of foes resistant to your element
Bluff, persuasion, intimidation, and mind-altering spells are all questionable, since skill checks may just flat out not work, and there might be inquisitors all over the place capable of detecting mental magic

Don't depend too much on rest

So what kind of character is best?

Warlocks and monks seem good at first, until we consider that rests may not be possible
The champion fighter and barbarian seems like solid choices, if they can do something about his saves
Life cleric may work, although any caster may have trouble with running out of spell slots
Bards are solid, but may be squishy
A wizard, as always, might work if the player is very careful with his spell selection. I've seen a character do well in a campaign, where the DM absolutely hated him, by playing a wizard and simply not telling the DM what spells he prepared
Vengeance Paladin could be excellent if you take a vow which basically translates to hating everyone

Thoughts?

[Regitnui]

What about a fighter? Not reliant on rests, mostly. Lots of ASIs to boost problem stats.

[Easy_Lee]

What about a fighter? Not reliant on rests, mostly. Lots of ASIs to boost problem stats.

Yep, and I mentioned champion in the OP. It's the least rest-reliant archetype and remarkable athlete is useful for all sorts of checks, if one is creative.

[Inevitability]

You forgot a major one there: dependency on equipment. The kind of DM we seem to be trying to outwit here is the kind of DM who would steal your equipment.

Any reliance on spellcasting focuses is probably out, as is a weapon-heavy martial. Perhaps a shifter barbarian? If your weapon gets taken away, you can just attack with your natural weapon.

[Specter]

If you're worried about saves, go Paladin 6. As for the rest, Champion is solid, especially for a higher chance of critical smiting.

[Slipperychicken]

Wizard: I wouldn't touch it because screwing with spellbooks is a classic of bad DMs. But if you don't have to worry about that, then maybe.
Warlock: I think EB would be nice, despite the short rest issue.
Paladin: A lot of DMs houserule falling even though it's not a thing. Depends on how he sees vengeance.

Bard: I like it, just don't pay any attention to social skills. Getting rope trick and/or leomund's tiny hut would be very nice though.
Life Cleric: I agree. It's hard to mess with cleric stuff. Death Ward would be nice to let you dodge an instant kill effect. I always like doing preserve life with mass healing word to get the party up to like half health when they're about to lose.
Fighters: Agreed. I'd consider EK actually, so that I could never be disarmed, and so that I could pick up mending to fix my weapon if it breaks.
Druid: I haven't heard of DMs using dominate beast like that. Otherwise, it should be pretty solid. Goodberry would be nice to have if you're tracking rations.
Barbarian: I think barbarians are solid choices.

For a race, I think halflings would be great because of all the awful things that are houseruled to happen on natural 1s.

Mind control: I agree with you, but for different reasons. It's easy to take a very conservative reading on what's permissible under most mind-control spells, and that can render them near-useless.

[Corran]

I would say a dex-based EK fighter. S&B and maybe grab a feat or two in archery. Resilient wisdom to boost his all around saves, very good AC, some very good reactions in shield and absorb elements, and decent damage, especially when/if we can squeeze a couple of archery feats in the build (till then GFB/BB and war magic).

Other than that, oathbreakers paladins are quite strong, if ofc you have that option.

ps: As pointed above by Dire_Stirge, the DM can screw you over by stealing your equipment.

[Sir cryosin]

I would say a undying monk is a good contender
Yes you do have to watch how much ki you spend but other then that your good race I would go with gnome or elf.

Any short rest dependent class can do a few lvs of wizard just to get rope trick.

[Easy_Lee]

Hmm, that's a good point about spellbooks. One way around it is to use keen mind on a conjurer wizard, which by plain RAW means you should be able to conjurer your spellbook into your hand, then dismiss it. So you wouldn't need to keep your spellbook handy, and could instead store it in some safe location. But obviously, this could be DM-fiat'd away quite easily.

Incidentally, this is why most of my build guides include a section on questions to ask the DM before playing. Can't stress the importance of that enough.

That's a great point about halflings and lucky. Sword and board in general should be pretty solid as well, for obvious reasons.

Looking back at warlock, it seems like a solid fiend warlock potentially could take the false life invocation and keep it up at all times, eventually switching it out in favor of hitting a rat or something with EB after every rest to gain temporary HP. Blade or chain pact would probably be the most consistent choices, chain for scouting and blade for ability to summon the pact weapon and fight at any range.

That said, out of all of the archetypes, fiend is the most prone to the DM demanding your character to do things (to satisfy the fiend). However, that may not actually bother some characters. I have an idea for a butler-esque fiend warlock named Jeeves whose only desires are to serve and be suave.

Rogue might actually not be bad. Assassin and trickster are out because the DM can fiat the mage hand all over the place, and deny surprise easily. And obviously, stealth is unreliable. But items like ball bearings and caltrops, when used as a bonus action by a clever thief, could be quite good. Plus bonus action dash and disengage. Add some fighter levels for shield and armor prof, and the character could be quite resilient. Iron Scoundrel strikes, again.

So far, for general advice, we have halflings as a good race, sword and board as a good weapon combo, and for feats? Lucky and alert seem quite good.

[Regitnui]

I forgot about rust monsters; the sadistic DM's answer to the heavily armed martial. What about a shifter monk? No need for weapons at all, though rests might be a problem.

[D.U.P.A.]

Monks hand down. Only way DM can screw you if he severs you body parts. Fighters are one of the worst choices in this case, especially if based on Str.

[Hrugner]

Anything with a patron of any sort is right out. The DM can just start ruling that you've defied your patron and strip you of powers. So no paladin, cleric, druid or warlock. You also can't rely on feats, equipment, surprise rounds, or consistent stealth rules. So no rogue or wizard. Short rests are likely to be tweaked, so no barbarian. Your DM likely is exerting excessive control over the game due to a loss of control over their real life competing with a narcissistic belief that they aught to be able to control it. I recommend a fighter, ranger, monk or bard and roleplaying the character as an anti-hero version of the DM's personality.

I highly recommend getting a good idea of what sort of worlds the DM likes as well.

[RickAllison]

Monks hand down. Only way DM can screw you if he severs you body parts. Fighters are one of the worst choices in this case, especially if based on Str.

Technically, unarmed strikes don't need hands, and their boosted speed makes up for the loss of a leg. Unless the DM is sadistic enough to chop off all their limbs (so everyone is screwed), the monk is barely going to be slowed down, much less disabled. Even then, only movement is prevented. They can headbutt for unarmed attacks, catch arrows in their teeth, etc.

[Laserlight]

How can we make a character who will do fine in any game, no matter who DMs?

Thinly disguised version of DM's Significant Other.

[Sir cryosin]

This might be a little munchie but dragon sorcerer could be good bump up dex and char then con and your good you can get a 18 AC and who said you can't pick spell outside of your elemental dragon blood. With shield spell you can get better ac.

[Easy_Lee]

Reflecting on the thread, Druid 2 / Monk X might actually be quite good if you're able to keep your Monk features while shapeshifted. Could turn into a cricket to spy on people, escape through small openings, and could also flurry of blows someone with D4+ cricket feet. Druid spells like goodberry also keep you self-sufficient. That's honestly not bad.

This does fall under the heading of "silly" to a certain extent. Many testy DMs will try to take away martial arts features when the monk shapeshifts. But if it's allowed...Kung Fu Panda, anyone? This really needs to be a hybrid class.

[Knaight]

Monks hand down. Only way DM can screw you if he severs you body parts. Fighters are one of the worst choices in this case, especially if based on Str.

Monks have basically no meaningful ranged capability, and as such can be screwed just as well by a sudden prevalence of ranged flyers.

[RickAllison]

Monks have basically no meaningful ranged capability, and as such can be screwed just as well by a sudden prevalence of ranged flyers.

Shortbow. Monks may not be the greatest at offensively using ranged weapons, but the ability to redirect attacks back at an attacker makes them more proficient than you would think.

And an Aarakocra monk? Among the fastest with the 60+' fly speed.

[Easy_Lee]

And an Aarakocra monk? Among the fastest with the 60+' fly speed.

Aarakocra Druid 2 / Monk X might work quite well. Sounds like cheese, but sometimes cheese is appropriate. I wouldn't put it past some DMs to start throwing mass amounts of nets and Hold Person spells at someone who spends too much time flying, though. Probably best to be careful with that.

[RickAllison]

Aarakocra Druid 2 / Monk X might work quite well. Sounds like cheese, but sometimes cheese is appropriate. I wouldn't put it past some DMs to start throwing mass amounts of nets and Hold Person spells at someone who spends too much time flying, though. Probably best to be careful with that.

Which is where the monk's reduction to fall damage comes into play!

[Fflewddur Fflam]

The most DM-proof character is yourself. If you find yourself with an @sshole DM, don't play with them again.

[R.Shackleford]

You need a character that can do something no matter what happens around them.

Barbarian, Fighter, and Rogue are out. In order to be effective at what they do, they need to be able to hit AC, deal with cover and light, and many other things. Any caster that relies on attack rolls or save (negates) spells are in the same boat.

The most DM proof class is the ones that has Save (Half/lesser effect) or buffs allies.

I would say a Light Cleric, Evocation Wizard, or similar.

Dex (half) spells always have an effect, you may not have full effect but you will have some effect. Keep counter spell to counter a counter spell.

Same with a buffing spellcaster.

Also...

Rogue (Mastermind?) 3/Life Cleric 17.

Help action (even at range), healing (even at range), and buffing.

[pwykersotz]

No multiclassing. That can easily get stomped.

No Warlocks. Lots of DM's like to exploit the "contract".

I also recommend Monk. The gear independence is nice, and you can take Sun Soul if concerned about range, though you don't get your 150' attack until 11th level. Like others have said, a shortbow shores this up.

[R.Shackleford]

No multiclassing. That can easily get stomped.

No Warlocks. Lots of DM's like to exploit the "contract".

I also recommend Monk. The gear independence is nice, and you can take Sun Soul if concerned about range, though you don't get your 150' attack until 11th level. Like others have said, a shortbow shores this up.

Multiclassing can be banned but that's something that comes up before you make a character.

So it isn't an issue. Of the DM allows

Also I meant Light Cleric.

If single class then Light Cleric all the way.

[pwykersotz]

Multiclassing can be banned but that's something that comes up before you make a character.

So it isn't an issue. Of the DM allows

Also I meant Light Cleric.

If single class then Light Cleric all the way.

Well, the goal was for any game, so I assumed that table to table considerations would need to be in play.

But yes, Light Cleric is a solid choice too. 9th level casting, good features, lots of self-sustainability, good choice.

[JellyPooga]

Cleric has to be out due to Patron considerations, surely? "Mecha-GM" can deny too many avenues because "your deity wouldn't allow it".

I think Rogue, or at least a dip (if MC is allowed), is about as GM-proof as you can get. A Swashbuckler doesn't need allies, has DC-breaking Skill bonuses (Expertise), immunity to botching a dice roll (Reliable Talent), good durability (Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, Slippery Mind) and good solo potential (Sneak Attack, Stealth and/or Social Skills as a stereotypical trait).

As far as Race is concerned, Halfling is a clear outlier; re-rolling the "Critical-Fail One" is practically a survival trait vs. "Mecha-GM". Gnome comes in second, just for the Advantage on Saves vs. magic and the fact that they make remarkably good Rogues (I consider them to be the second best Rogue Race).

[Klorox]

I'm a fan of the halfling monk. You get to avoid all the fumbles many DMs use when rolling a 1, and the DM can't take away any of your characteristics.

Open hand, long death, and shadow are my favorite.

[Slipperychicken]

I'm a fan of the halfling monk. You get to avoid all the fumbles many DMs use when rolling a 1

Well, about 95% of them, at least.

[BW022]

The most DM-proof character is yourself. If you find yourself with an @sshole DM, don't play with them again.

+1

There is no such thing about a "DM-proof Character". A DM can nerf any character build or concept within seconds -- build a melee machine, a DM can nail you with ranged combats. Build something able to ranged also, the DM can fill the dungeon with traps. Get around traps... you are faced with obscure runes needing magic. Get around that... diplomatic encounters, stealth, swimming, climbing, need to speak a specific language. Do all that... and the DM can put in a horde of creatures who dislike your race. They can have

If you have to fight the DM... you are wasting your time. Simply make rule 0 clear, "I'm here to have fun. If I'm not having fun, I'll thank you for your time and find another game which is fun to be in." This is a far better outcome than wasting time and frustrating yourself with a DM who you expect to nerf, hamstring, single you out, or otherwise make the game unenjoyable. Better to just leave. Teaching the DM that playing that way means not playing. It also mean you can spend your time more productively.

[Specter]

If going Rogue, don't go Thief or Assassin; Second-Story Work and Use Magic Device are entirely DM dependant, and he might never give out surprise to you.

[Longcat]

For a DM-proof character, in addition to the restrictions mentioned by the OP, I would add the following:

Don't assume access to uncommon races. They are uncommon for a reason.
Don't assume access to optional rules. Builds that rely on multiclassing or feats don't work in every game.
Don't assume access to material outside of the PHB. Unearthed Arcana is always iffy, and EE/SCAG may not be available either.
Don't assume access to Death Cleric and Oathbreaker Paladin. The DM can always declare a non-evil game to prevent access to those.


Which basically restricts us to characters that can function in purely mundane, less than ideal equipment and who do not rely on short rests for their abilities. I would choose a Bear Totem Barbarian. No good armor? Go naked. Weapon stolen? Get a stick and call it a club.

[Flashy]

If going Rogue, don't go Thief or Assassin; Second-Story Work and Use Magic Device are entirely DM dependant, and he might never give out surprise to you.

Honestly Use Magic Device is pretty mediocre anyway when you consider that Arcane Trickster gets about half the value of it all the way back at 3rd level when they pick up the Spellcasting feature.

[AmbientRaven]

A halfling with lucky feat, 2 levels of divination wizard and 1 level of wild magic sorcerer. Rest is up to you. re-roll 1's, re-roll3 die a day, roll 2d20 and replace any rolls with them and gain a self advantage from wild magic.

[Slipperychicken]

A halfling with lucky feat, 2 levels of divination wizard and 1 level of wild magic sorcerer. Rest is up to you. re-roll 1's, re-roll3 die a day, roll 2d20 and replace any rolls with them and gain a self advantage from wild magic.

A minor nitpick, but portent has to be used before the die is rolled at all. You can't roll a number and then replace it with the portent roll.

[Giant2005]

You can immediately rule out anything that relies on spellcasting because they are too easily neutralized by making every area an anti-magic zone.
Anything that relies on equipment isn't going to have any equipment.
All that really remains is the Monk.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

You can immediately rule out anything that relies on spellcasting because they are too easily neutralized by making every area an anti-magic zone.
Anything that relies on equipment isn't going to have any equipment.
All that really remains is the Monk.

Monks own. Real talk.

[RickAllison]

Monks own. Real talk.

There are various reasons people can complain of monks, but they are among the best to have around when everything goes to hell.

[TheFlyingCleric]

... Unless the DM is sadistic enough to chop off all their limbs (so everyone is screwed), the monk is barely going to be slowed down, much less disabled. Even then, only movement is prevented. They can headbutt for unarmed attacks, catch arrows in their teeth, etc.

The Black Knight could have learned a lot from this. If he took a few levels of monk, King Arthur still wouldn't be able to pass that bridge.

[MrFahrenheit]

The most DM proof character I ever saw was a halfling divination wizard with the lucky feat. Auto-rerolled all nat 1s on his part (the first time each is rolled) (racial luck), could force a reroll of ANY roll he didn't like that he rolled or was rolled against him 3x/long rest (lucky feat), and could also substitute two pre-rolled d20 results as he saw fit 2x/long rest (portent). Took almost no damage dealing spells.

Didn't last very long, due to the fact that he was obsessed over an item in a rarely found magic shop, and tried stealing from the party to acquire funds to get it. Player error, totally, though that character concept still makes me cringe to his day.

[ruy343]

I, too, recommend a monk, but not the monk you're expecting...

I had a DM who loved to throw terrible things at the party as a random encounter, and there was often need to have someone scout ahead of the party to send messages, seek better paths, etc., which meant that the monk was often ambushed solo. However, I was playing a mid-level (campaign ended at level 15) 4-elements monk, and every time the DM tried something, I had an answer. I found the following abilities extremely useful:

-Monk movement - I could avoid difficult terrain by running along walls and walking on water, and my movement speed was absurd
-Mobile Feat
-Stunning strike
-Martial Arts - no matter the situation, I was fully armed and ready for combat.
-Poison/Disease immunity
-Proficiency in all saves
-Spend ki points to always dodge
-4-elements powers intended to grant greater mobility/evasion (Gaseous Form, Fly)
-4-elements powers that let me make ranged attacks/manipulate battlefield (Shatter, Fist of Unbroken Air)

At that level, my character may not have been dealing a ton of damage, but the DM couldn't do anything to me. In partnership with our fighter or rogue, I was a great help by giving them advantage, so they could nova with advantage.

It won't be the most damaging class, but some of the 4-elements powers can be an excellent way to add on to your monk to make them even more DM-proof.

[Shining Wrath]

I think the sort of DM we're talking here - which I'm imagining as "adversarial but not so overtly so that you throw dice" - would either not allow the Aararocka or would respond by putting the entire adventure in a dungeon with a 6' ceiling.

I'm thinking a Warlock or a Monk. A Warlock can EB all day long and be effective with the right invocations. Monks need no equipment and seldom need DM rulings.

Worst would probably be anyone who relies on illusions or stealth.

[gfishfunk]

I'm hesitant on anything reliant on saves or adversarial skill rolls:

With my last 5e GM, whenever I forced a save, the adversary was proficient in that save type - from grunt to boss, did not matter.

Likewise, when I was using the shield master feat to knock folks prone, all enemies became proficient in acrobatics or athletics after the first session of use. ALL OF THEM. As a result, my shoving success rate dropped dramatically - and I had multi-classed rogue to get expertise on athletics.

I think the simplest would be Totem barbarian - its just attack roll and resistance to almost all damage with a huge HP pool. No short rest / long rest requirements other than rage refills. No need to grab armor and potentially drown. You can use any weapon at all - a simple club if you really needed to - and still be effective. Monk is a great choice as well. Warlocks are a little too fragile IMO. A really dickish GM will just have a swarm hit the warlock.

[RulesJD]

Monk is a very close 2nd, but still 2nd because you DM can rule magical resistance applies to Stunning Fist, which greatly limits Monks.

If your DM is at the point where they ban PHB purchasable equipment, leave and find a different game.


Thus, the answer is simply a Totem (Bear) Barbarian 3/Champion Fighter+. Grab GWM, a Greatsword, and Resilience (Wisdom). There is literally 0 DM interpretation in the skills you're going to use. You swing hard, hit hard, and are insanely hard to kill between Rages and Second Wind/Indomitable/Action Surge/etc.

If you really want to peeve off the DM, pickup Polearm Master + Sentinel, but there are interpretive elements there. Thus, just stick with GWM + Res (Wis) + boost Str/Con + Lucky feat.

[Easy_Lee]

I wonder if hill dwarf light cleric isn't the most resilient, under the rules prescribed. It's the most plainly RAW character, has access to no-nonsense features and spells, such as healing and Sanctuary, and is extraordinarily difficult to kill at any level.

Additionally, the character needs do nothing other than heal and buff the other party members in order to be a valuable asset. Such a character could even offer to switch sides and be a turncoat for a time, treating enemy wounds in exchange for his life, which may save him in an otherwise untenable situation. Perhaps his God asks only that he tends to the wounds of the injured, and doing so for any reason counts as performing his clerical duties.

Thus, the character is quite unlikely to offend our assumed adversarial DM, for any reason. That may be the surest way to survive.

[MaxWilson]

Moon druids are questionable, since I've heard of DMs whipping out Dominate Beast on them, then command the player to jump into a hazard *snip*
Thoughts?

Total nonissue. Your Wisdom save is exactly the same in beast form, and any DM who would whip out Dominate Beast (4th level, very niche, Druid/Sorcerer only and realistically few sorcerers will ever take it) just to mess with you would whip out Dominate Person (5th level, more broadly useful, Bard/Sorcerer/Wizard) just as quickly.

The only DM-proof character is one with nothing to gain and nothing to lose, so I'll vote for "0th level hermit with no family and a death wish." He adventures only because he doesn't believe in suicide, but he's totally fearless and impervious to threats and seduction because he just doesn't want anything.


Thus, the answer is simply a Totem (Bear) Barbarian 3/Champion Fighter+. Grab GWM, a Greatsword, and Resilience (Wisdom). There is literally 0 DM interpretation in the skills you're going to use. You swing hard, hit hard, and are insanely hard to kill between Rages and Second Wind/Indomitable/Action Surge/etc.

You're kidding, right? That PC can be rendered useless by a DM accidentally, even if he isn't a killer DM out to nerf your character. All it takes is for the DM who uses intelligent monsters with halfway realistic tactics, e.g. goblins with shortbows and Nimble Escape playing hit-and-run in the dark. I had a player get kind of sad about how ineffective his GWM Barbarian was at my table against anything with missile weapons, and the best advice I could give him was, "Use stealth to sneak up into melee range before the fight starts. But melee really is pretty bad in the 5E ruleset, and I'm not going to change the game physics to make it better. Condolences."

A GWM Barbarian is about the farthest thing you can possibly get from DM-proof.

[JellyPooga]

There's been a lot of love for the Monk in this thread because of his non-reliance on equipment. IMO, this is faulty thinking ; Robo-GM, the way I imagine him at least, isn't the GM that automatically nerfs you because of equipment; he could, but outside of unusual circumstances, he generally won't. Your Fighter or Barbarian will probably be allowed to use his Greatsword, Greataxe or Glaive; Robo-GM might even give him a magical one. Monk having less reliance on gear is more likely to be banned outright "because Monks don't fit in my setting" or "because they're broken" than a Fighter being gimped because of gear-loss.

I also feel it relevant to reiterate that Cleric, just as much as Warlock, should probably be ruled out entirely, especially Life Cleric (which has been bandied around a lot); the possibility of Robo-GM clamping down on any of the usual murder-hobo shenanigans most PCs engage in makes Cleric a dicey choice at best. Druid and Paladin are also Classes that have potentially strict (and thus, for Robo-GM, absolutely enforced) codes of conduct and can also be ruled out.

Barbarian (too savage), Monk (too "eastern") and Ranger (too terrain dependent) are right out.

That only leaves Bard, Fighter, Rogue, Sorcerer and Wizard. Wizard is...situational. Under Robo-GM, he probably won't survive to the higher levels he requires to really shine. Sorcerer, especially Draconic, probably has a better shot, but can still be shut down by counteracting his spells-known. Bard is a good contender, but can suffer from "lute-player-in-a-dungeon" expectations from Robo-GM. Fighter gives good, potentially even the best, DPR in a fight, but has little to offer outside of those circumstances.

Rogue, being one of the best solo PC Classes and being tougher than most people think, as well as having the most game-breaking-yet-rules-legal features, in conjunction with the best survival-at-all-costs stereotypes, has got to be A-grade DM-proof material.

[Avigor]

Rogue, being one of the best solo PC Classes and being tougher than most people think, as well as having the most game-breaking-yet-rules-legal features, in conjunction with the best survival-at-all-costs stereotypes, has got to be A-grade DM-proof material.
I like this. I was already planning on also pointing out that the Sun Soul Monks (or as our group jokingly refers to them, Goku Monks) have a (theoretically optional) code of conduct listed in their fluff, allowing the truly dickish mecha-DM to make the monk "fall" and lose at least the ranged powers.

The core Rogue is awesome. If limited to PHB, here is the archetype debate:

Thief gives Fast Hands for caltrops, better situational mobility, better stealth if allowed, the option to make the DM facepalm if he forgets UMD and you don't mind drawing his ire, and a second turn if the DM doesn't feel like forcing assassins on the party. Not the best however.

Assassin is easily the most screwed in this, so that is out.

Arcane Trickster is the big winner. While the illusions and enchantments may suffer, the other spells won't. Also, locks + traps from range, theoretical disadvantage vs your spell saves, gain advantage while solo without stealth, and a theoretical chance to negate a spell once/day to screw with Wizards.

If SCAG is actually allowed, Mastermind sucks almost (but not quite) as hard as Assassin, but Swashbuckler pulls ahead of Thief to compete for supremacy. Better able to avoid AoO, better initiative and SA chances, better athletics and acrobatics (potentially partly redundant due to reliable talent however), and 1/day trade miss for advantage? Maybe not quite as good as spells but not bad.

[MaxWilson]

Rogue, being one of the best solo PC Classes and being tougher than most people think, as well as having the most game-breaking-yet-rules-legal features, in conjunction with the best survival-at-all-costs stereotypes, has got to be A-grade DM-proof material.

But Rogues relies heavily on stealth rules, which are notoriously DM-dependent. At a stealth-hostile DM's table, a rogue will be doing nothing much of anything compared to a fighter.

[Specter]

Honestly Use Magic Device is pretty mediocre anyway when you consider that Arcane Trickster gets about half the value of it all the way back at 3rd level when they pick up the Spellcasting feature.

Actually Crawford says that AT doesn't qualify as Wizard for purposes of magic item attunement. Shame.

[Flashy]

Actually Crawford says that AT doesn't qualify as Wizard for purposes of magic item attunement. Shame.

Sure, but probably the most useful category of restricted magic items is the wands, which only have the Spellcaster requirement. UMD gets you additional access to the staves, holy avengers, and a handful of class specific items that don't actually do much of anything for you.

[Longcat]

Likewise, when I was using the shield master feat to knock folks prone, all enemies became proficient in acrobatics or athletics after the first session of use. ALL OF THEM. As a result, my shoving success rate dropped dramatically - and I had multi-classed rogue to get expertise on athletics.


Chances are, that is not adversarial DMing. It is widely known (see the Grappler handbook) that 80% of the Monster Manual content is ridiculously vulnerable to Shove/Grapple, making any strategy that specializes in that incredibly cheesy.

[JellyPooga]

But Rogues relies heavily on stealth rules

Says who?

One stereotype of a Rogue does, but that doesn't mean all Rogues do. Sneak Attack doesn't require any form of stealth, merely advantage or an ally. A Swashbuckler doesn't even need that.

If you're looking for a GM-proof Rogue, you'll want to pick Expertise in your choice of Athletics, Acrobatics, Insight, Investigation, Perception, Persuasion and Survival, depending on your ability scores, desired focus, allies and the expected game style.