Taking down a dominated teammate alive

[Willie the Duck]

So what are the best ways to take down an opponent alive?

The scenario is: my character got dominated in the last fight. We've been playing unoptimized, fireballing wizards and curing clerics style D&D and apparently doing too well, so the DM decided to play rocket tag with our saving throws. He threw some kind of dread or evil-tainted earth elementals at us that were controlled by a level 14 or so sorcerer who spanked us hard. Two party members died, and my barbarian/bear warrior got dominated and ran off as the sorcerer's new pet.

I'm now playing a temporary character (we went to a temple of Tyr, and one of their warrior clerics is going to come help). We want to go find the sorcerer again, free my barbarian, and hopefully defeat the sorcerer as well.

So I'm looking for items and spells to take to down the barbarian without killing him, or else freeing him from control. Merciful weapons of course work, but that's an expensive permanent weapon enchantment. Is there a spell which makes a weapon merciful? Dispelling the dominate is obvious, but with a 12th level cleric and our regular spellcaster (12th level cleric 3/wizard3/mystic theurge6, I told you we were playing unoptimized), that's a lot of dispels to throw until we break through while getting meatgrindered.

What else should we prepare to take on this sorcerer? The spells we've seen are: see invisibility (or true sight), fly, greater invisibility, enervation, finger of death, and dominate.

Thanks!

[Doc_Maynot]

Just a note, instead of dropping money on a merciful weapon, you can take a -4 penalty to hit to deal nonlethal damage with melee weapons.

[PrinceOfMadness]

As an alternative, you could just go in, kill everyone, and resurrect your barbarian after the fact.

[Sliver]

Magic Circle against Evil?

[Firest Kathon]

Three words: Protection from Evil (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/protectionFromEvil.htm). This will a) break the enchantment on your Barbarian and b) protect the rest from the Dominate Person spell and c) give you a small AC bonus against his minions. The barbarian will get a Will save to resist the PfE, but with two spellcasters you have enough 1st-level spells to throw at him until you succeed. For your group, Magic Circle against Evil (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicCircleAgainstEvil.htm) will last longer, but require your group to stay together. If these elementals are summoned, they even need to make saving throws to attack you.

Additionally, put up Death Ward (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/deathWard.htm) (mass version in Spell Compendium and Libris Mortis) to protect from Enervation and Finger of Death. See Invisibility (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/seeInvisibility.htm) should be obvious, combine with (a wand of) Glitterdust (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/glitterdust.htm) to make him visible for all (the save on Glitterdust is only against the blindness, so a wand would be OK, although it only lasts for 3 rounds). You may also prepare some Mass Resist Energy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/resistEnergy.htm) (the mass version is from the Spell Compendium and I think also in Complete Arcane) if he decides to go blasting himself, and also in case these elementals do energy damage.

[Telonius]

The Disobedience spell from Complete Scoundrel could also help you out. Nice side effect: the sorcerer might be fooled into thinking he still has control over your Barbarian.

("No, you idiot, I said walk over there ... aaaargh!")

[Sliver]

For your group, Magic Circle against Evil (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicCircleAgainstEvil.htm) will last longer, but require your group to stay together. If these elementals are summoned, they even need to make saving throws to attack you.

There's another benefit.

Protection from Evil allows for a saving throw. Magic Circle does require one, too, but it doesn't say that anyone but the creature that's the focus of the spell needs to make it, so I'm reading it as everybody within the circle getting the benefit and don't get a chance to save.

[Douglas]

Magic Circle against Evil?
This. Cast it once on each party member before you go in, and the moment the barb gets within ten feet of any of you he'll be free automatically. He'll go back under control as soon as he moves away from you, but you can warn him to stay close until someone takes a turn to cast Magic Circle Against Evil (or just Protection from Evil) directly on him, at which point he'll have domination immunity that follows him around.

[DarkSoul]

Three words: Protection from Evil (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/protectionFromEvil.htm). [...] If these elementals are summoned, they even need to make saving throws to attack you.Only SR can get through a Protection or Magic Circle spell. The save is for the target to resist having it cast on them.


Third, the spell prevents bodily contact by summoned creatures. This causes the natural weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#naturalWeapons) attacks of such creatures to fail and the creatures to recoil if such attacks require touching the warded creature. Good summoned creatures are immune to this effect. The protection against contact by summoned creatures ends if the warded creature makes an attack against or tries to force the barrier against the blocked creature. Spell resistance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#spellResistance) can allow a creature to overcome this protection and touch the warded creature.

If they could pass a save to attack it would say so there. You may be thinking of Sanctuary (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sanctuary.htm).

For the OP: If you think you can gauge it correctly, get the dominated character to low health through lethal damage then switch to nonlethal. Dealing 8 nonlethal damage to knock someone out is a lot easier than dealing 80.

[Eldest]

If you can try to hit the caster first you should be good, in addition to the Protection from Evil spell mentioned.

(Or you could try the safe word :P)

[Willie the Duck]

Thanks for the replies. Why was I under the impression that protection from evil would only stop the Dominating sorcerer from issuing new commands, not negate the overall domination?

[Doc_Maynot]

Thanks for the replies. Why was I under the impression that protection from evil would only stop the Dominating sorcerer from issuing new commands, not negate the overall domination?



Second, the barrier blocks any attempt to possess the warded creature (by a magic jar attack, for example) or to exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment (charm) effects and enchantment (compulsion) effects that grant the caster ongoing control over the subject, such as dominate person). The protection does not prevent such effects from targeting the protected creature, but it suppresses the effect for the duration of the protection from evil effect. If the protection from evil effect ends before the effect granting mental control does, the would-be controller would then be able to mentally command the controlled creature. Likewise, the barrier keeps out a possessing life force but does not expel one if it is in place before the spell is cast. This second effect works regardless of alignment.

As in, the entire effect.

[Willie the Duck]

Well, that's a low-level cure for a powerful spell (I suppose too powerful). Interesting. Thanks!

Has anyone found a way to make a weapon merciful? (yes, just take -4).

[Janthkin]

For the OP: If you think you can gauge it correctly, get the dominated character to low health through lethal damage then switch to nonlethal. Dealing 8 nonlethal damage to knock someone out is a lot easier than dealing 80.Note that because of how non-lethal damage works, you can actually lead off with the non-lethal damage, and then move into lethal damage. They will still be knocked out when their current HP falls below the non-lethal damage total you inflicted earlier. (Unless they get healing in the meantime, of course.)

[Crake]

Well, that's a low-level cure for a powerful spell (I suppose too powerful). Interesting. Thanks!

Has anyone found a way to make a weapon merciful? (yes, just take -4).

It is worth noting that should the protection from evil be dispelled, the dominate effect will immediately resume, so if the enemy sorcerer has dispel magic it becomes irrelevant, as he can just dispel it and the barbarian is back to being dominated.

If you have any control over the temporary characters you're making, and they're clerics, I suggest at least one of you take divine defiance, the inquisition domain, a dispelling chord, arcane mastery (ironically not requiring arcane caster level you need to either be able to cast arcane spells, or have SLAs, achievable with the right race) and elven spell-lore. With all of those combined, you will be getting +8 on dispel checks ontop of your caster level (this bonus is not due to caster level, and thus can exceed the regular +10 cap on normal dispel magic), and arcane mastery allows you to take 10 on caster level checks, which dispel checks fall under, this allowing you to get an automatic 28 on dispel checks (assuming you're at least level 10) with a level 3 spell, as an immediate action to counter-spell by spending a turn attempt. That's enough to auto counter any spell with CL 17 or less, which should completely shut down the sorcerer, while still giving you actions on your turn to aid your allies.

[daremetoidareyo]

This. Cast it once on each party member before you go in, and the moment the barb gets within ten feet of any of you he'll be free automatically. He'll go back under control as soon as he moves away from you, but you can warn him to stay close until someone takes a turn to cast Magic Circle Against Evil (or just Protection from Evil) directly on him, at which point he'll have domination immunity that follows him around.

Or make your smallest guy make a ride check at -25 and ride the barbarian to keep him within the radius of the magic circle.

[Willie the Duck]

If you have any control over the temporary characters you're making, and they're clerics, I suggest at least one of you take divine defiance, the inquisition domain, a dispelling chord, arcane mastery (ironically not requiring arcane caster level you need to either be able to cast arcane spells, or have SLAs, achievable with the right race) and elven spell-lore. With all of those combined, you will be getting +8 on dispel checks ontop of your caster level (this bonus is not due to caster level, and thus can exceed the regular +10 cap on normal dispel magic), and arcane mastery allows you to take 10 on caster level checks, which dispel checks fall under, this allowing you to get an automatic 28 on dispel checks (assuming you're at least level 10) with a level 3 spell, as an immediate action to counter-spell by spending a turn attempt. That's enough to auto counter any spell with CL 17 or less, which should completely shut down the sorcerer, while still giving you actions on your turn to aid your allies.

Of those, I can become a church inquisitor, and thus get the inquisition domain. That costs me 1 fort save and 1 bab, but it does turn my 3rd level dispels into level 14 dispels. Might be worth it. Where is dispelling cord from?

[Mystral]

You could also only deal nonlethal damage once and then, when there is a comfortable buffer zone, switch to lethal damage.

Concerning magic circle against evil, that one can possibly be dispelled by the sorcerer, and then you are next to a suddenly re-dominated barbarian.

Also, dominate person lasts far longer than the magic circle, so if the sorcerer has given the barbarian some standing orders, those might still be enacted. But your barbarian would propably agree to be tied down until the dominate wore off or was dispelled.

[Sliver]

Concerning magic circle against evil, that one can possibly be dispelled by the sorcerer, and then you are next to a suddenly re-dominated barbarian.

How about casting it on a familiar or other small critter, then having it hide somewhere on the barbarian's body, blocking line of sight but not line of effect to the barbarian. The barbarian will be under the circle's effect, but the critter can't be targeted for dispel. If you manage to block line of effect to everybody but the barbarian, even area dispel won't reach the critter.

A well trained mouse could crawl under the barbarian's clothes...

And battles shouldn't last long enough for the duration of the circle to be relevant. It's long enough that after the battle you can worry about dispelling the dominate.

[Janthkin]

Where is dispelling cord from?Magic Item Compendium.

[Âmesang]

I might have a book thrown at me for this, but how about the grapple rules? :smalltongue: Okay, barbarians are probably the last people you want to try and grapple, but I figure there's at least the chance to pin the guy down to make it easier to cast any necessary spells.

I bring it up 'cause I had run into a similar situation but with insanity instead of dominate person; all the party had to do was grapple the ally to let me cast limited wish on him… but since it was the player's last day with the group everyone else elected to just kill off his character. :smallconfused: Is it weird when the chaotic-evil character's the only one trying to save someone?

(At least with the reasoning that killing him off is throwing away a valuable tool. After all, you wouldn't toss away a hammer after striking a single nail, right?)

[Sliver]

After all, you wouldn't toss away a hammer after striking a single nail, right?

If the hammer suddenly started smashing my fingers randomly and aggressively, even when not used to hammer a nail? I probably would throw it away.

[Willie the Duck]

I might have a book thrown at me for this, but how about the grapple rules? :smalltongue: Okay, barbarians are probably the last people you want to try and grapple, but I figure there's at least the chance to pin the guy down to make it easier to cast any necessary spells.

I bring it up 'cause I had run into a similar situation but with insanity instead of dominate person; all the party had to do was grapple the ally to let me cast limited wish on him… but since it was the player's last day with the group everyone else elected to just kill off his character. :smallconfused: Is it weird when the chaotic-evil character's the only one trying to save someone?

(At least with the reasoning that killing him off is throwing away a valuable tool. After all, you wouldn't toss away a hammer after striking a single nail, right?)

Actually, grapple would work pretty well. Regardless of who is winning, it ties both combatants down very well. The sorcerer flying around casting finger of death while this happens is another problem of course, but this could help.

As to the CE guy, depending on how you define it, CE can just be unlawful and selfish, and selfish people can do amazingly 'generous' things if it actually benefits them. Sure, that made sense in character.

[Fitz10019]

It is worth noting that should the protection from evil be dispelled, the dominate effect will immediately resume, so if the enemy sorcerer has dispel magic it becomes irrelevant, as he can just dispel it and the barbarian is back to being dominated.
I thought you could only dispel all ongoing effects, but upon re-reading, I see you can choose one spell to dispel as Crake says. So, this sorcerer could specifically dispel Protection from Evil and maintain his Domination on the barbarian, if he knows that spell is there.

Protection from Neutral or Protection from Good would likewise make the barbarian immune to mental control. So if you hit him with one of those, without the sorcerer recognizing that you didn't use the obvious Protection from Good, that should confound his dispelling attempts (right?).

Now, how to avoid the sorcerer from recognizing the use of Protection from Neutral? Administer the spell by way of a spell-storing weapon?

[Willie the Duck]

I'm not really clear on whether there are any spell completion or spell storing items that make their effects immune to spellcraft checks. I assume that would be far too powerful of an effect to just be a side affect. I think you would need some kind of spell masking feat or class ability, or a specialized magic item to do that.

[Telonius]

A Spectral Hand/Overwhelm (PHB2; delivers nonlethal damage equal to current HP total) combination could knock out your Barbarian friend. Kind of risky though, since it is SR: Yes and Will Negates.

[Sliver]

Identify a spell being cast. (You must see or hear the spell’s verbal or somatic components.) No action required. No retry.

Be invisible and cast it silenced! Or a silent still spell...

[Willie the Duck]

We don't have a 6th level spell casting arcane caster for Overwhelm, so it would be a scroll--will DC 19 vs. the barbarian's +9 or +10 (depending on form). Kinda iffy.

The sorcerer will have see invisibility up, so it would have to be stilled and silenced, two feats neither caster has.

Thanks for the advice though.

[Sliver]

A rod can handle the silent part, and there are plenty of ways to prevent LoS temporarily. Fogs and blindness for example...

Or have the magic circle cast in advance, so that the sorcerer didn't see the casting. It's 10 minutes per level, IIRC... The single target version is problematic, as it offers a save, though it's harmless, so the barbarian wouldn't try to resist unless he recognizes the spell or is ordered to resist all spells cast by you.

[Willie the Duck]

Okay, I think I have my temporary character ready for action. Here's him, including spells memorized for that fight. Let me know what you think --

Sir Reginald Pimm
"Nobody Expects the Tyrish Inquisition"
or alternatively
"So, I hear that we're going after your friend, who's only committing evil because they are magically influenced. Don't worry, as in inquisitor, I always bring both justice and mercy."
<holds up gleaming longsword>
"This is Justice"
<holds up wicked, spiked Morningstar, carved with scenes of screaming penitents>
"This is Mercy"

Human Cleric (Tyr) 7 Church Inquisitor 5
STR 18
DEX 14
CON 16
INT 12
WIS 18 (22)
CHA 14

Align: LG
BAB: +8
HP: 108
AC 22 (touch 12 flat foot 20)
Fort: 16 Ref: 12 Will: 20
Attacks: +14/9 1D8+2D6+22 (19-20) or
-alternatively: +13/8 1D8+1D6+22 (x2) subdual

Domains
Inquisition (+4 dispel checks)
War (weapon focus)

Class features
Detect evil (at will)
Immune to charms
Immune to compulsions
Pierce disguise
Pierce illusion
Turn Undead as Cleric 7 10x/day (+2 skill synergy to check)

SKILLS
Concentration 15 (+18)
K: Arcana 5 (+5) (+10 w/ Collector of Stories)
K: Religion 5 (+5) (+10 w/ CoS)
K: Local 15 (+15) (+20 w/ CoS)
K: the Planes 5 (+5) (+10 w/ CoS)
Spellcraft 15 (+17, including synergy)
Skill Trick: Collector of Stories

FEATS
Blade of Force
Extend Spell
Extra Turning
Holy Warrior
Knowledge Devotion
Power Attack
Travel Devotion
Weapon Focus (Longsword)

EQUIPMENT
4,400 gp Shadowy Diadem (Dragon Magic, p.103 ) 3/day concealment and energy drain immunity for one minute.
1,000 gp Dispelling Cord (+2 to dispel checks 5/day) shirt slot
16,000 gp Pearl of Wisdom +4
8,150 gp Millennial Chainmail +6 AC +8 Dex max fast healing 3, sacrifice 4th level spell
4,000 gp Gauntlets of War (CC 139) +1 damage to melee attacks, +3 if you worship a deity with access to the War domain.
4,000 gp Ring of Counterspells (DMG 230) Automatically counters a preselected spell of 1st-6th level (Greater Dispel.)
5,500 gp Boots of Striding/Springing +10 move)
8,315gp +1 Holy Longsword "Justice"
8,305gp +1 Merciful Morningstar "Mercy"
16,670 gp +2 Large Shield, Animated with Crystal of Arrow Deflection, Least
3,000gp Lesser Rod of Metamagic, Extend: The wielder can cast up to three spells per day that are extended as though using the Extend Spell feat. CL 17th.
1,000 gp Reliquary Holy Symbol: 2 extra turn/day
1,500 gp Material components: true seeing x6
90 Everburning Torch
3,250 gp Potions
-Fly
-Displacement x2
-Protection from evil x2
-Mirror Image x3
2550 gp Scrolls
-Restoration (7th)
-Air walk (7th)
-Dimensional anchor (7th)
-Lesser restoration (3rd)
-Remove paralysis (3rd)
-Remove blindness (3rd)

~100gp Basic adventuring gear
170 gp

SPELLS
(0/1/2/3/4/5/6) = (6/7+d/6+d/5+d/4+d/4+d/3+d)
6d: Blade Barrier
6: Superior Resistance
6: Superior Resistance
6: Heal
5d: True Seeing
5: True Seeing
5: Extended Freedom of Movement
5: Righteous Might
5: Extended Greater Magic Weapon
4d: Divine Power
4: Air Walk
4: Death Ward
4: Extended Resist Energy, Mass
4: Spell slot locked down by millennial armor
3d: Magic Vestment
3: Dispel Magic
3: Dispel Magic
3: Dispel Magic
3: Extended Bear’s Endurance
3: Extended Bull’s Strength
2d: Spiritual Weapon
2: Bear’s Endurance
2: Bull’s Strength
2: Cure Blindness
2: Extended Shield of Faith
2: Remove Paralysis
2: Resist Energy
1d: Magic Weapon
1: Obscuring mist
1: Protection from chaos
1: Protection from chaos
1: Protection from evil
1: Protection from evil
1: Shield of Faith
1: Shield of Faith
0: Create Water
0: Detect Magic
0: Detect Magic
0: Detect Magic
0: Detect Magic
0: Read Magic

[Willie the Duck]

Well, the game is tomorrow. Anyone with last minute suggestions?

Thanks!