5e Shadowcaster Conversion (PEACH, WIP!) Please provide feedback!

[Siirvos]

I've been working on a conversion of the shadowcaster from 3.5 to 5e but have a couple of questions for the forum goers here. How would you go about converting the shadowcaster to 5e? What are the key features that differentiate the class from the core classes? Is there enough material to justify a conversion in the first place?

I am currently unsatisfied with what I have worked on, but haven't been able to figure out a mechanically sound way to bring the shadowcaster to 5e while keeping its full 'flavor' or 'feel'. Originally I tried converting it using a warlock style progression, but was ultimately unsatisfied with its spell slot usage due to the limited spell list. I did, however, approve of the invocation-like features gained (which I kept when changing the spellcasting mechanics of the class to the 3.5 style where the class got uses per spells known per day).

I chose three shadowcaster prestige classes to act as archetypes, each emulating a specialization possible by the base class. Unfortunately, the archetypes feel as if they are all over the place, with one being a pet class, another being a faux rogue, and the last being a specialist anti-caster. Because of this, I am uncertain whether or not a conversion is justifiable with the material presented in 3.5. Nonetheless, I am more than happy and willing to homebrew more material until there is enough to work with, but was looking for feedback with what I already have before I were to set out on that path.

Lastly, as a core feature, I opted for keeping some semblance of the mystery path progression from 3.5, awarding bonus invocation-like features called "mysteries" for completing a path. Furthermore, to help differentiate the class from the core spellcasters, I took away the ability to 'upcast' spells - casting low level spells with higher level spell slots - and kept a pseudo spell transformation as the shadowcaster reaches higher levels. First the spells are cast as arcane spells, except they require no verbal or material components, then they no longer require somatic components, and finally they are then able to be cast as a bonus action.

Finally, I present to you my Shadowcaster conversion, a current work in progress. Any and all feedback would be greatly appreciated. Works best in chrome, the table comes out all messed up in firefox and other browsers.

The Shadowcaster (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/BkaciQ1L)

[Siirvos]

The updated spell list can be found in the homebrewery link above.

[Siirvos]

Alright, I've updated the original post with a warlock style progression. It feels a bit better but im still not sure. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

I still need to type out the mysteries list, and the shadowcaster spell list, both of which should be coming soon.

[Randomguy]

First thing first: You can't have Intelligence and Charisma as your two saving throw proficiencies. There are three primary saving throws that show up a lot: Dex, Wis and Con, and three secondary saving throws that are more rarely called for: Str, Int, Cha. Every class gets one proficiency in the group of primary saving throws, and one from the group of secondary saving throws. You can't have two saving throws from the less important group.

Overall, it depends a lot on what the Mysteries and Spells are going to be. But I don't think that basing it off the Warlock is the way to go.
The Warlock doesn't really play like a primary spellcaster: They play more like an archer with a few spells they can use in a tough situation. But the Shadowcaster isn't (I assume) going to have Eldritch Blast + agonizing blast, so they won't be viable as an archer.
And if they did have Eldritch Blast, then it'd just be a refluffed warlock.
So I don't see how they would be viable using the warlock chassis.

I would probably go with the standard "primary spellcaster" chassis. You could try porting over the shadowcasting system from ToM where when you learn a Mystery you can use it X times per day, but that gives them extremely low versatility compared to other primary spellcasters, so you'd have to give them something to make up for that. One idea is a higher number of total high level ability uses per day, or maybe an auto-hightening mechanic similar to what the warlock has. It'd be tricky to balance that, though.

One thing I do notice is that your shadowcasters don't get See in Magical Darkness until 11th level, but Warlocks can pick it up as early at 2nd level.

[Siirvos]

Fixed, gave it dexterity proficiency as opposed to intelligence because it seemed thematically appropriate. Need to come up with another proficiency for Shadows and stealth in the shadowblade archetype though. Perhaps sleight of hand, stealth, and thieves tools proficiency? Not sure if that would be stepping on the rogues toes too much.

Secondly, I concur with your observation that the warlock is essentially a ranged archer. I specifically created the archetypes to try to close the gap between actions in combat, granting either bonus spells, an action trade for the beast companion, or single target damage in melee. Do you think that is not enough? The staple offensive cantrip was going to be Arrow of Dusk, which is as follows:

Arrow of Dusk
0-level evocation
Casting time: 1 action
Range: 100 ft
Components: Somatic
Duration: Instantaneous
A bolt of shadow springs from your hand, draining vitality where it strikes
Succeed on a spell attack to deal 2d4 piercing damage. If you score a critical hit, triple the damage. If this spell would reduce a creature to 0 hp, they are automatically stabilized. This spell’s damage increases by 2d4 when you reach 5th level (4d4), 11th level (6d4), and 17th level (8d4)

Furthermore, I have a couple of mysteries written down but not typed that include granting advantage on attacks with arrow of dusk, changing the attack into a line effect, or increasing the crit damage to x4. Hopefully that would bring it closer in line to eldritch blast.

[Siirvos]

Reverted the class back to the 3.5 shadowcaster progression. Added warlock style invocations called 'Mysteries', and updated the mystery list. Added cantrips to the spells list. Still need to post the rest of the spells, which should be up shortly!!

I also found an old homebrew by realms of chaos that seems to be REALLY well done. Thinking about converting a lot of the spells from that to here to help round out the spell list and give more options, but that would be a big undertaking. Still, it'd be worthwhile.

For now, tell me what you guys think! Is the class balanced? Any ideas for other mysteries I should add or take away? Is the Master of shadows too strong? Shadowblade too weak? I feel particularly let down by its level 10 ability, but I couldnt think of anything else to add to it. Perhaps slippery mind? Any and all feedback would be greatly appreciated!

[Siirvos]

Updated my second post with the spell list. I know I'm missing some spells, but I couldn't think of a good way to convert them into 5e without breaking something. The Dark Reflections Path in particular is difficult because of their Shadow Evocation spells. Thoughts on how to replace them? That path had a lot of versatility and I would like to keep some of that versatility into 5th edition. Tell me if the spell conversions are too powerful or unbalanced in any way.

Also, any ideas on how to word a mystery that grants a bonus to arrow of dusk on surprised opponents? Would it be a worthwhile mystery to add?

[Siirvos]

Gave the spell list another run through, caught a few ridiculous spells, including a cantrip that managed to sneak by.
Created a handful more mysteries, namely metamagic likes usable once per day. Still unsure if thats the way to go, but its there now. Any ideas for other mysteries i should add?

Also updated the original post with the homebrewery link so it looks nice and pretty, also available here. For some reason it only looks good in chrome, so keep that in mind.

http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/BkaciQ1L

Any and all feedback is welcome!

[TheTeaMustFlow]

I'm fairly certain this shouldn't be getting 1d8 hit points per concierge level.

[Siirvos]

I'm fairly certain this shouldn't be getting 1d8 hit points per concierge level.

lol whoops. Good eye, thank you for pointing it out. Fixed.

[Inchoroi]

Can you take a look at the formatting for page 1? You've got some overset text.

[Siirvos]

Can you take a look at the formatting for page 1? You've got some overset text.

Are you opening it on chrome? It comes out really messed up on firefox for some reason.

[Randomguy]

The Sickening Shadow spell seems underpowered. It's like a weaker version of Stinking Cloud, but Stinking Cloud is only 3rd level.

As written, Mass Life Fades stacks with Life Fades. I'm not sure whether that's intentional or not.

I'm not sure the +4 to AC effect of Reflections of Things to Come is appropriate. Doesn't that break bounded accuracy? Maybe something more in line with what Foresight does? Maybe give attacks against you disadvantage instead?

[Siirvos]

The Sickening Shadow spell seems underpowered. It's like a weaker version of Stinking Cloud, but Stinking Cloud is only 3rd level.

Good catch. Any ideas on how to buff the spell to make it more in line with other 6th level spells? Maybe treat it as stinking cloud, add the poisoned condition as a rider effect, and something else? The frightened condition, maybe? or incapacitated after 3 rounds of failure?


As written, Mass Life Fades stacks with Life Fades. I'm not sure whether that's intentional or not.

Would it be too powerful if it did stack? My gut says yes, as that would instantly leave affected targets with 0 speed, half max hp, and disadvantage on just about everything. However, that would be done over the course of two turns, one of which has to be in melee, so I'm not sure. Updated the spell so they don't stack, just to be safe, but might change it back depending on feedback.


I'm not sure the +4 to AC effect of Reflections of Things to Come is appropriate. Doesn't that break bounded accuracy?

Another good catch. Ive updated the spell to grant disadvantage to attacks. The spell is intended to be a shadow mimicry of foresight, and I think it does it well.

Thoughts?

[Randomguy]

Good catch. Any ideas on how to buff the spell to make it more in line with other 6th level spells? Maybe treat it as stinking cloud, add the poisoned condition as a rider effect, and something else? The frightened condition, maybe? or incapacitated after 3 rounds of failure?


I would say increase the range to 120 ft, increase the area a bit, and make it so that they're nauseated on the failed save and poisoned on the successful save. The way it is now it the poisoned condition is irrelevant: It doesn't matter if you have disadvantage on attack rolls if you don't get to make attack rolls.



Would it be too powerful if it did stack? My gut says yes, as that would instantly leave affected targets with 0 speed, half max hp, and disadvantage on just about everything. However, that would be done over the course of two turns, one of which has to be in melee, so I'm not sure. Updated the spell so they don't stack, just to be safe, but might change it back depending on feedback.


It wouldn't be done over two turns. It would be done over one. By the time you get Mass Life Fades you're casting apprentice mysteries as bonus actions.

[Siirvos]

It wouldn't be done over two turns. It would be done over one. By the time you get Mass Life Fades you're casting apprentice mysteries as bonus actions.

You can only cast 1 spell as a bonus action. Your regular action spell must be a cantrip. PHB pg202.

Also I reread the spell description of sickening shadow and noticed that it said it also blocked all sound. Would adding a silence spell over the area bring it closer in line to 5th level with the changes you've also suggested? I'm wary about increasing the size of the area, 20ft radius sphere of darkness seems to be a good rule of thumb.

Nauseated is no longer a condition, maybe you mean incapacitated? Or the whole 'spend their actions retching and reeling' as per stinking cloud?

[Siirvos]

I've updated the shadowcaster homebrew i've been working on for the past few weeks. Clarified some of the text, lowered the hit die of the class from d8 to d6, lowered the number of spells known to 18 to keep its total spell uses per day closer in line with the other spellcasters in 5e, and added spell paths to the spell descriptions. Still has the same amount of dark and shadow references so bear that in mind. Are the invocations too powerful? I am having second thoughts about protective shade, disadvantage on all attacks just for casting non cantrip spell seems pretty darn powerful. That being said, the class has little in the way of defenses so maybe it balances out.

Tell me what you guys think!

[Siirvos]

Whew! Okay, I changed the core spellcasting of the class to a hybrid of the warlock and full casting. It now goes up to 6th level spells and unlocks higher levels spell via "Shadow Arcanum" which works exactly the same as the warlocks mystic arcanum feature.

I'm really liking how the class is turning out to be, finally. But alas, I am still looking for some feedback. Any suggestions for additional Mysteries? Do you foresee any balance problems? Would you be willing to playtest the class? Please and thank you!

[Siirvos]

I've altered the class from the wonky spell progression to a spell point system. The spells themselves follow a quadratic curve, with higher level spells costing significantly more than lower level spells. Thus, at max level, the shadowcaster can cast 5th level spells up to 5 times, at the cost of nearly all of his/her spell points. I believe this is a good way to convey how casting higher level spells are particularly taxing on the shadowcaster, quickly using up all of his/her reserves.

I have also changed the primary casting stat of the class from charisma to intelligence. Hopefully that is enough to dissuade the slew of warlock and sorcerer multiclassing that is so prevalent these days.

As usual, any and all feedback would be greatly appreciated.