Half ogre/real ogre question

[killianh]

So I'm looking at putting together a brute style character for a gestalt game and I felt like playing a ogre for the lolz. I came across something though and I'm unsure if I'm simply reading it wrong or if it was poorly written.

A real Ogre has +10 str, is already treated as large, comes with 4 racial HD and an LA of +2.

Half Ogre (the template) has only an LA of +1 if you go up a size. It grants you +4 Str, but is not a default large creature.

My question: From how I'm reading this taking half ogre and going up a size would lead to me having +12 STR for only 1 LA vs only netting +10 for a 2 LA (plus those pesky racial HD). Am I wrong on this or no?

P.S. I will also likely add half minotaur first as I can get both for only 1 LA if I'm right on the way this works.

[Crake]

So I'm looking at putting together a brute style character for a gestalt game and I felt like playing a ogre for the lolz. I came across something though and I'm unsure if I'm simply reading it wrong or if it was poorly written.

A real Ogre has +10 str, is already treated as large, comes with 4 racial HD and an LA of +2.

Half Ogre (the template) has only an LA of +1 if you go up a size. It grants you +4 Str, but is not a default large creature.

My question: From how I'm reading this taking half ogre and going up a size would lead to me having +12 STR for only 1 LA vs only netting +10 for a 2 LA (plus those pesky racial HD). Am I wrong on this or no?

P.S. I will also likely add half minotaur first as I can get both for only 1 LA if I'm right on the way this works.

You are correct in your deduction, which is why I personally do not allow half ogres/minotaurs at my table, because it's quite silly in what it provides you. Some will argue that it's merely "good" but when compared to other +1 LA templates designed for brutes it's quite clearly absurdly better. Make sure your DM is ok with it before you get too excited imo.

[Troacctid]

You are wrong. As you said, the template only grants +4 Strength, not +12.

[AslanCross]

You are wrong. As you said, the template only grants +4 Strength, not +12.

It gets an additional +8 from the size increase.

[Troacctid]

It gets an additional +8 from the size increase.

Here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm#bigandLittleCreatu resInCombat) are the modifiers that change based on your size category. Growing larger does not change your ability scores except as noted by the effect that caused the size change.

[torrasque666]

Here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm#bigandLittleCreatu resInCombat) are the modifiers that change based on your size category. Growing larger does not change your ability scores except as noted by the effect that caused the size change.
While generally true, you're wrong here. The Half-Ogre template (Dragon Magazine #313) states that it does.

See Table 4-2: Changes to Statistics by Size in the Monster Manual for changes to the base creature when it gains a size category. The changes in this template are in addition to the changes outlined there.
Same reason that Half-Minotaur gives a +12 to Str to a medium creature.




Old Size1
New Size
Str
Dex
Con
Natural Armor
AC/Attack




Repeat the adjustment if the creature moves up more than one size.




Fine
Diminutive
Same
-2
Same
Same
-4


Diminutive
Tiny
+2
-2
Same
Same
-2


Tiny
Small
+4
-2
Same
Same
-1


Small
Medium
+4
-2
+2
Same
-1


Medium
Large
+8
-2
+4
+2
-1


Large
Huge
+8
-2
+4
+3
-1


Huge
Gargantuan
+8
Same
+4
+4
-2


Gargantuan
Colossal
+8
Same
+4
+5
-4



Bolded for emphasis.

[Rebel7284]

You have several options when it comes to playing half ogres.

1. Use the most recent half-ogre race from races of destiny.
2. Use the half-ogre template as per dragon magazine with full acknowledgement that it may make the game unfun at early levels due to being so overpowered.
3. Ask your DM for a reasonable houserule to the dragon magazine template. I believe just removing the size bonuses and penalties from changing to large makes it fair.

[Necroticplague]

My question: From how I'm reading this taking half ogre and going up a size would lead to me having +12 STR for only 1 LA vs only netting +10 for a 2 LA (plus those pesky racial HD). Am I wrong on this or no?

P.S. I will also likely add half minotaur first as I can get both for only 1 LA if I'm right on the way this works.

Nope, you're reading everything right. Ogres are a crappy race, half-ogre is a decent template, and it does stack with half-minotaur like that (since it only has LA if it makes you go up a size category).