Minifixing the Ranger: A humble, direct approach

[Specter]

NOTE: This thread is meant for those who think there is a little bit missing to the ranger. If you think it's a great class, carry on as if it didn't exist.
NOTE 2: If you're just interested in seeing the fixes and not reading a bunch of design rant, skip to the second post.
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After playing in 3 campaigns with rangers on them, my group has mostly come to the conclusion that the ranger is not a great class, but not a terrible one either. As the DM, I took it upon myself to fix it.

"I think something's wrong with the class! What do you think is wrong with it?"
In this board and others, many have argued and said the ranger doesn't hold on its own, that it's the weakest class in the game, that it should have just been a fighter archetype, etcetcetc. Well, these people are all wrong. Any one who has played a ranger at low levels felt that it's consistent and does what it should do well (or on some campaigns, decently).

One of the main deals of D&D 5th Edition is that at every level, players are rewarded with a good (or at least decent) class feature. In the ranger's case, that doesn't apply in three of its levels: 6, 10 and 14. After getting the main terrain they need for a given campaign and the favored enemy that will give meaning to their character, the subsequent terrains and enemies add little to nothing to what the ranger can contribute to the group. In some campaigns, such as Curse of Strahd, the ranger barely visits his main terrain, let alone visiting two or three of those. Even in the rare case of a campaign planned around the ranger's terrains and enemies, they bring little novelty to the table.

Furthermore, unlike the Fighter and the Paladin, the ranger's damage output raises very little after 5th level. This wouldn't be a problem if it was compensated by great scouting/exploring/defensive skills, but it isn't; after 5th level, the ranger progresses in an okay fashion, always looking forward to class features from his archetype (7, 11, 15) that come after the 'cold levels' mentioned above.

"Assuming this is all true, how can it be fixed?"
What the ranger needs are small gifts at his cold levels that either compensate for the situationality of that level's features, or make that situationality great instead of okay. But these features shouldn't be too powerful either; we don't want the ranger to outshine other classes with them.

Let's get to them.

[Specter]

THE FIXES - ADD THESE TO CLASS'S BASE ABILITIES

Archetype Bonus Spells
After all new ranger UAs have included bonus spells for some archetypes, it makes absolutely no sense that the old ones don't get those. Rangers only learn (LEARN, as in 'not changeable every day') 11 spells through their career, so that's the least they could do.

HUNTER BONUS SPELLS
3 - Hunter's Mark
5 - See Invisibility
9 - Nondetection
13 - Locate Creature
17 - Hold Monster

BEASTMASTER BONUS SPELLS
3 - Animal Friendship
5 - Enhance Ability
9 - Conjure Animals
13 - Polymorph
17 - Awaken
______________________

Nature's Blessing
By 6th level, your connection to the wild improves your toughness. You gain proficiency in Constitution saving throws.

WHY IT MAKES SENSE AND WORKS: Back in 3.5, rangers had good Fortitude and Reflex saves; this is entirely absent from 5e and its 'good save, bad save' class mechanics, which were designed for balance but not for sense. I don't like playing a ranger that is bad against poison, weather hazards and vitality-draining effects. In fact, he should be one of the best at them. It makes sense for a ranger to be proficient in all physical saves, without always needing to spend their few ASI's on Resilient.

If this seems too powerful, compare it to the Paladin's Aura of Protection, which is one of the best class features in the entire game, or to the Fighter's ASI at the same level. Assuming the fighter picked Resilient as an example, the proficiency in a save is only half of the feat, with the other half compensated by the extra terrain/enemy.

EDIT: Fighters get Indomitable, Rogues get Slippery Mind and Evasion, Barbarians get Danger Sense and Rage, Paladins get Aura of Protection and Monks get Diamond Soul. Rangers are officially the only martials who have no improvement to saves whatsoever. It's obvious this kind of feature is necessary.
______________________
Stalker's Precision
Starting at 10th level, when you roll weapon damage against your favored enemies, you can treat any number lower than 4 on the die as a 4.

WHY IT MAKES SENSE AND WORKS: At level 10, rangers get another terrain (meh) and Hide in Plain Sight, which is so situational that feels like a ribbon. This is essentially similar to the Elemental Adept feat reworked: just like blasters can have excellence at casting some spells, the ranger should have excellence at attacking certain foes.

Due to the ranger usually rolling many average-sized dice due to his class features (like Hunter's Mark and Colossus Slayer), this makes sure an attack is never awful, just okay. Also, having a damage-related feature to favored enemies at 10th level is better than getting one just at 20th level. Right, Wizards? And remember, at 10th level Fighters are getting archetype features and Paladins gain Aura of Courage.
______________________
One With Nature
Starting at 14th level, your kinship to nature is strenghtened. You can cast speak with animals and speak with plants at will, without expending a spell slot.

WHY IT MAKES SENSE AND WORKS: Rangers learn the fewest spells in the game. Even less than Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters. Anyone who says that's fair is out of their mind. The level 10 feature was meant to improve favored enemies, so this one should improve Natural Explorer. These spells are flavorful, perfectly suited for a ranger, and assure his scouting is better than ever with his natural allies. Some might say this is just a bit better than the warlock invocation Beast Speech, but Vanish is just a worse Cunning Action, so this evens it out.
______________________
PLAYTESTING
I had the chance to playtest this is a two-adventure campaign with 10th-level characters. The added features made none of the other players (cleric, sorcerer, monk) feel outshined, made the ranger feel more adequate and got his defensive and offensive abilities on the same page as that of other martials. The 14th-level ability hasn't been tested, but I doubt anyone would find too much flaw in it.

Tell me what you think. Thank you.

[Rusvul]

This is good, I like this. None of them are so good as to unbalance anything (certainly not good enough to consider dipping Ranger for them) and they're also all flavorful. I think the only problem I have is with the level 14 power; it isn't overpowered but I personally don't like the idea of my players talking to every badger and tree they come across. The Ranger putting an ear to a tree and asking it where their quarry went is quite archetypal. The Ranger putting an ear to every tree? Not so much. Perhaps if it was cast as a ritual I would be more convinced.

All in all, I approve. If my current game wasn't mostly newbies, I'd speak to our party Ranger about these tweaks. :)

[Osrogue]

I would argue for switching your level 6 and 14 class features and making your level 14 spells the ranger knows if it doesn't already, and can cast as rituals. This gives it a small boost in spells known, let's him save his precious spell slots, and puts it somewhere between the warlock and barbarian in terms of usefulness. Warlock has at will utility spells because it has so few spell slots at any given time, so I don't think that's a fair comparison. Ritual casting let's the ranger cast the spell whenever he needs to for exploration and scouting, but if he's in a hurry, he can burn a spell slot on it to speed it up, say in combat, should it come up.

While your level 6 ability is weaker than a paladin aura, it's more comparable to rogue's slippery mind, and monk's diamond soul, which are level 15 and 14 respectively.

Other than that, looks pretty cool.

[Biggstick]

This is good, I like this. None of them are so good as to unbalance anything (certainly not good enough to consider dipping Ranger for them) and they're also all flavorful. I think the only problem I have is with the level 14 power; it isn't overpowered but I personally don't like the idea of my players talking to every badger and tree they come across. The Ranger putting an ear to a tree and asking it where their quarry went is quite archetypal. The Ranger putting an ear to every tree? Not so much. Perhaps if it was cast as a ritual I would be more convinced.

All in all, I approve. If my current game wasn't mostly newbies, I'd speak to our party Ranger about these tweaks. :)

A decent limiting factor for the level 14 ability might be tying it to an ability score like Paladin's Cleansing Touch. Make both spells available to cast, but only able to cast them your Wisdom modifier number times per long rest.

[Biggstick]

I would argue for switching your level 6 and 14 class features and making your level 14 spells the ranger knows if it doesn't already, and can cast as rituals. This gives it a small boost in spells known, let's him save his precious spell slots, and puts it somewhere between the warlock and barbarian in terms of usefulness. Warlock has at will utility spells because it has so few spell slots at any given time, so I don't think that's a fair comparison. Ritual casting let's the ranger cast the spell whenever he needs to for exploration and scouting, but if he's in a hurry, he can burn a spell slot on it to speed it up, say in combat, should it come up.

While your level 6 ability is weaker than a paladin aura, it's more comparable to rogue's slippery mind, and monk's diamond soul, which are level 15 and 14 respectively.

Other than that, looks pretty cool.

The level 6 feature I actually think is great as he's put it. Both Monk and Rogue are d8 classes that focus primarily on hit and run tactics. The Ranger is a d10 that is can choose how they fight (evidenced by fighting styles shared with the other d10 classes). Giving the save at 6 allows the Ranger to feel more like a martial. Being proficient in all of the physical saves really says something about a Ranger's physical capability.

[TentacleSurpris]

Even justlooking at the base features, the Ranger just doesn't work. It has more problems that need to be fixed.

PRIMEVAL AWARENESS
What it does: By spending one spell slot you may sense creatures within 1 mile of you or within 6 miles if within your favored terrain. You can sense whether aberrations, celestials, dragons, fey, fiends, and undead are within the radius.
Why it fails: Signal to noise. It doesn't tell you the creature's location or number. So great, you're in a Forest (common favored terrain) and your ability tells you that there is either an aberration, celestial, dragon, fey, or fiend within 6 miles. How does this help the party? So there is a creature within 6 miles. ITS D&D OF COURSE THERE IS A CREATURE WITHIN 6 MILES, THE WORLD IS FULL OF CREATURES. You should probably assume that at a depth of one mile, you can always find an aberration underground from your position. ANY forest is going to have some Fey. Without knowing where, how many, or what type, your ability has told you NOTHING you couldn't just assume anyway. And it costs a spell slot? Why isn't this just a Ranger spell?

HIDE IN PLAIN SIGHT
What it does: At 10th level, you may take one minute to create camouflage and hide in a natural setting and get +10 on stealth if you don't move.
Why it fails: If you need a special class feature to hide in the woods, then what have you been doing for levels 1-9? This ability lets you hide in FRONT of a tree. What's wrong with just standing BEHIND the tree, like you've been doing since level 1? Finding a tree to perch in or stand behind is just normal stealth, it doesn't require any ability. A normal stealth check only takes one action, why does this take one minute? After 10 levels of rangering, it suddenly takes me ten times as long to find a tree to hide behind?

(As for getting +10 on Stealth, Rangers get the Pass Without Trace spell which gives +10 stealth to the entire party five levels earlier.)

VANISH
What it does: Allows you to make a Hide check as a bonus action on your turn in combat. You can't be tracked by nonmagical means
Why it fails: This is not an MMO. Rangers (and Rogues) hiding as a bonus action breaks verisimilitude. If there is a 6' tall crate, I can just stand behind it and take cover, I don't need a special 'hide' ability to do so. If I have a 'hide' ability and use it in combat, well, the enemy will see that I just walked behind the crate (or whatever else I'm hiding behind), walk around it himself, and stab me as I'm crouched down. In World of Warcraft, Rogues could 'Vanish' in combat and become invisible without cover when another avatar is locked onto them. But this isn't a video game. Rangers and rogues don't become invisible when they 'hide', they're just taking cover, which anybody can do. They don't have the mystical ability to cloud an enemy's mind to make him forget where they just went.

As for the ability to avoid being tracked, again, this doesn't help when you're travelling with 3 other duders, and the ranger gets Pass Without Trace nine levels earlier.

Remember in both of the above instances, Pass Without Trace affects the whole party while the class abilities do not. What good does it do for a Ranger to be able to hide and not be tracked when the ability doesn't extend to his party? DND is a party based game. You're sitting down with a group of friends, observing a social contract that everyone will get to have a good time. If you're off soloing, it's not an enjoyable experience for the other players. If a Ranger is playing with his friends, as he will most of the time, these abilities do nothing. Aiblities that don't work in the course of regular DND play aren't good abilities.

[TentacleSurpris]

I may sound salty but my girlfriend is trying DND for the first time and likes her Ranger character, but not her Ranger abilities. More often than not, I'm telling her "that ability does nothing." That's not a satisfying game experience. She was really excited when she got to fight a dragon because she had favored enemy: dragons. That ability is worth about a fart in the wind. The group travels through forests and she has favored terrain: forests. But getting lost isn't a mechanic in the game nor a part of any story or module unless it's a plot element, so that ability does nothing. The ability to move faster through the forest does nothing, because the characters move at the speed of the plot; it takes an identical amount of time for me to say "you travel four days" and "you travel eight days." She can forage to supply the party without slowing down.. but that's already a feature of her Outland background. So basically she can double proficiency in Nature but didn't take that proficiency, so...

I can't fix the class because I had already told the group I wouldn't be houseruling, reconning, or homebrewing anything because once that door is open, I know a few players who will whine and cry about everything they want. I can't be throwing out the rules when my gf joins, as any DM will know. So yeah, I'm pissed at MM and JC that my girlfriend crosses her arms when her abilities don't do anything.

[MrFahrenheit]

THE FIXES

Nature's Blessing
By 6th level, your connection to the wild improves your toughness. You gain proficiency in Constitution saving throws.

WHY IT MAKES SENSE AND WORKS: Back in 3.5, rangers had good Fortitude and Reflex saves; this is entirely absent from 5e and its 'good save, bad save' class mechanics, which were designed for balance but not for sense. I don't like playing a ranger that is bad against poison, weather hazards and vitality-draining effects. In fact, he should be one of the best at them. It makes sense for a ranger to be proficient in all physical saves, without always needing to spend their few ASI's on Resilient.

If this seems too powerful, compare it to the Paladin's Aura of Protection, which is one of the best class features in the entire game, or to the Fighter's ASI at the same level. Assuming the fighter picked Resilient as an example, the proficiency in a save is only half of the feat, with the other half compensated by the extra terrain/enemy.
______________________
Stalker's Precision
Starting at 10th level, when you roll damage against one of your favored enemies, you can treat any 1 on a damage die as a 2.

WHY IT MAKES SENSE AND WORKS: At level 10, rangers get another terrain (meh) and Hide in Plain Sight, which is so situational that feels like a ribbon. This is essentially one of the parts of the Elemental Adept feat reworked: just like blasters can have excellence at casting some spells, the ranger should have excellence at attacking certain foes.

Due to the ranger usually rolling many dice due to his class features (like Hunter's Mark and Colossus Slayer), this makes sure an attack is never awful, just okay. Also, having a damage-related feature to favored enemies at 10th level is better than getting one just at 20th level. Right, Wizards? And remember, at 10th level Fighters are getting archetype features and Paladins gain Aura of Courage.
______________________
One With Nature
Starting at 14th level, your kinship to nature is strenghtened. When you are in any of your favored terrains, you can cast speak with animals and speak with plants at will, without expending a spell slot.

WHY IT MAKES SENSE AND WORKS: Rangers learn the fewest spells in the game. Even less than Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters. Anyone who says that's fair is out of their mind. The level 10 feature was meant to improve favored enemies, so this one should improve Natural Explorer. These spells are flavorful, perfectly suited for a ranger, and assure his scouting is better than ever with his natural allies. Some might say this is just a bit better than the warlock invocation Beast Speech, but Vanish is just a worse Cunning Action, so this evens it out.
______________________
PLAYTESTING
I had the chance to playtest this is a two-adventure campaign with 10th-level characters. The added features made none of the other players (cleric, sorcerer, monk) feel outshined, made the ranger feel more adequate and got his defensive and offensive abilities on the same page as that of other martials. The 14th-level ability hasn't been tested, but I doubt anyone would find too much flaw in it.

Tell me wht you think. Thank you.

While I don't think there's something wrong with ranger as is, I do like what you're trying to do here. FWIW, here are my two cents:

Level 6 feature: fine, but too early. This makes a six level MC into ranger potentially the best option for rogues (and other dex/wis characters as well). Consider bumping to 10.

Level 10 feature: I like what you're going for, but it seems a bit too 4e to me. A more 5e solution would have the player rerolling 1s on the damage die, and having to take the second result, even if it's also a 1. Keep in mind though that this makes the dueling, TWF and archery styles objectively better than GWF. However, it is caveated by the favored enemy, which really balances out considerations nicely. Consider moving to 6, to get that offensive boost up and running early.

Level 14 feature: this late in the game, a feature like this seems underpowered. I'd recommend making the casting time for both spells a bonus action, too.

[Grod_The_Giant]

They all strike me as flavorful (except maybe Nature's Blessing), but too little, too late. Nature's Blessing is about half a feat, Stalker's Precision is a virtually undetectable "+1 damage every few rolls," and One with Nature is nice but comes in what, 11 levels after barbarians get virtually the same thing?

Favored Enemy/Terrain should do something from level ONE. And it should by noticeable enough that got remember what is, after all, a very situational boost.

[Specter]

Even justlooking at the base features, the Ranger just doesn't work. It has more problems that need to be fixed.

PRIMEVAL AWARENESS
What it does: By spending one spell slot you may sense creatures within 1 mile of you or within 6 miles if within your favored terrain. You can sense whether aberrations, celestials, dragons, fey, fiends, and undead are within the radius.
Why it fails: Signal to noise. It doesn't tell you the creature's location or number. So great, you're in a Forest (common favored terrain) and your ability tells you that there is either an aberration, celestial, dragon, fey, or fiend within 6 miles. How does this help the party? So there is a creature within 6 miles. ITS D&D OF COURSE THERE IS A CREATURE WITHIN 6 MILES, THE WORLD IS FULL OF CREATURES. You should probably assume that at a depth of one mile, you can always find an aberration underground from your position. ANY forest is going to have some Fey. Without knowing where, how many, or what type, your ability has told you NOTHING you couldn't just assume anyway. And it costs a spell slot? Why isn't this just a Ranger spell?

HIDE IN PLAIN SIGHT
What it does: At 10th level, you may take one minute to create camouflage and hide in a natural setting and get +10 on stealth if you don't move.
Why it fails: If you need a special class feature to hide in the woods, then what have you been doing for levels 1-9? This ability lets you hide in FRONT of a tree. What's wrong with just standing BEHIND the tree, like you've been doing since level 1? Finding a tree to perch in or stand behind is just normal stealth, it doesn't require any ability. A normal stealth check only takes one action, why does this take one minute? After 10 levels of rangering, it suddenly takes me ten times as long to find a tree to hide behind?

(As for getting +10 on Stealth, Rangers get the Pass Without Trace spell which gives +10 stealth to the entire party five levels earlier.)

VANISH
What it does: Allows you to make a Hide check as a bonus action on your turn in combat. You can't be tracked by nonmagical means
Why it fails: This is not an MMO. Rangers (and Rogues) hiding as a bonus action breaks verisimilitude. If there is a 6' tall crate, I can just stand behind it and take cover, I don't need a special 'hide' ability to do so. If I have a 'hide' ability and use it in combat, well, the enemy will see that I just walked behind the crate (or whatever else I'm hiding behind), walk around it himself, and stab me as I'm crouched down. In World of Warcraft, Rogues could 'Vanish' in combat and become invisible without cover when another avatar is locked onto them. But this isn't a video game. Rangers and rogues don't become invisible when they 'hide', they're just taking cover, which anybody can do. They don't have the mystical ability to cloud an enemy's mind to make him forget where they just went.

As for the ability to avoid being tracked, again, this doesn't help when you're travelling with 3 other duders, and the ranger gets Pass Without Trace nine levels earlier.

Remember in both of the above instances, Pass Without Trace affects the whole party while the class abilities do not. What good does it do for a Ranger to be able to hide and not be tracked when the ability doesn't extend to his party? DND is a party based game. You're sitting down with a group of friends, observing a social contract that everyone will get to have a good time. If you're off soloing, it's not an enjoyable experience for the other players. If a Ranger is playing with his friends, as he will most of the time, these abilities do nothing. Aiblities that don't work in the course of regular DND play aren't good abilities.

I may sound salty but my girlfriend is trying DND for the first time and likes her Ranger character, but not her Ranger abilities. More often than not, I'm telling her "that ability does nothing." That's not a satisfying game experience. She was really excited when she got to fight a dragon because she had favored enemy: dragons. That ability is worth about a fart in the wind. The group travels through forests and she has favored terrain: forests. But getting lost isn't a mechanic in the game nor a part of any story or module unless it's a plot element, so that ability does nothing. The ability to move faster through the forest does nothing, because the characters move at the speed of the plot; it takes an identical amount of time for me to say "you travel four days" and "you travel eight days."

I can't fix the class because I had already told the group I wouldn't be houseruling, reconning, or homebrewing anything because once that door is open, I know a few players who will whine and cry about everything they want. I can't be throwing out the rules when my gf joins, as any DM will know. So yeah, I'm pissed at MM and JC that my girlfriend crosses her arms when her abilities don't do anything.

TentacleSurpris! I admire you for you bold and accurate take on the Warlock 2 dip. It's an honor.

- Primeval Awareness can be useful as a sonar effect: if you're tracking a specific monster, it can tell you how close you are to it, and also warn you of dangers in the city. I've used it to detect that an approaching horde had a dragon accompanying them from far behind.
- Hide in Plain Sight's main application is for hiding while you are on watch, or in places where there's no way to hide (such as plains) or to prepare an ambush. But still, very plain.
- Vanish is very meh, really.

But if you don't plan on compensating for these lame abilities, orient part of your campaign towards them. Plan for ambushes, tracking and places where your girlfriend can use her "Expertise" well. It's our job to make players feel adequate and have fun, in any way we can.

[Osrogue]

The level 6 feature I actually think is great as he's put it. Both Monk and Rogue are d8 classes that focus primarily on hit and run tactics. The Ranger is a d10 that is can choose how they fight (evidenced by fighting styles shared with the other d10 classes). Giving the save at 6 allows the Ranger to feel more like a martial. Being proficient in all of the physical saves really says something about a Ranger's physical capability.


The level 6 feature I actually think is great as he's put it. Both Monk and Rogue are d8 classes that focus primarily on hit and run tactics. The Ranger is a d10 that is can choose how they fight (evidenced by fighting styles shared with the other d10 classes). Giving the save at 6 allows the Ranger to feel more like a martial. Being proficient in all of the physical saves really says something about a Ranger's physical capability.

Ranger's feel closer to rogues/monks than fighters/Paladins to me. Rangers get two attacks,
(monks get that too, so not really a comparison),
d10 hit dice,
strength saving throws, (monks get this too)
shields, (a one level dip of fighter or paladin)
martial weapons, (a one level dip of either)
some fighting styles (a one level dip of either)
Half-casting
A basic healing spell (a one level dip of either)
Protection against fear (actually, rogues and monks have this too)

So that leaves d10 hit dice, and half casting (though Rangers and Paladins share very few spells), which can't be covered by a one level dip of rogue or monk into fighter or paladin.


What Rangers get that they share with monks and/or rogues:

Expertise to some skills in favored terrain
(One level dip of rogue)
A mobility increase

Trap detection
(One level dip rogue)

Stealth bonus (pass without trace, expertise, supreme sneak, and reliable talent come to mind)
(1 level dip for rogue, bigger boost comes later)

A way to avoid opportunity attacks without disengaging or feats
(Escape the horde, cunning action, step of the wind)

Bonus languages
(Sun of tongue and moon)

Uncanny dodge
(Rogue)

Evasion
(Both)

Bonus action hide
(Cunning action, something shadow monks do)

Awareness of hidden or invisible targets
Bonus fighting invisible targets (rogues get a defensive bonus, Rangers an offensive bonus)

So yeah. Rogues can get all but that d10 hit dice with a level 1 dip in fighter, and half casting which is vastly different from the Ranger's anyway, and the rest of the class is much more similar to monks and rogues.

They can choose to not to skirmish, but a fighter can also choose to skirmish, some wizards can tank, and barbarians can cast spells as long as they aren't raging, so saying that they should be grouped with fighters because they have some flexibility with their fighting style doesn't really convince me. Their class traits are much more similar to rogues and monks than to fighters and Paladins, who are more similar to clerics themselves.

Pushing con proficiency to level 14 doesn't mean it no longer exists. It's just pushing a strong ability to later in the class chain.

[Innocent_bystan]

I have added the following to the Ranger class in my games:
At level 6, the Ranger gains proficiency in Stealth while he is in his favored terrain, if he is already proficient he can add double his proficiency modifier to Stealth Rolls.
At level 10, the Ranger can hide as a bonus action.

This really makes the Ranger the stealthy woodsman that it should be. Level 14 needs a new ability, but most of my campaigns end before that. I'll tackle that hurdle when I get there. Maybe a movement bonus of some sort?

[Specter]

A decent limiting factor for the level 14 ability might be tying it to an ability score like Paladin's Cleansing Touch. Make both spells available to cast, but only able to cast them your Wisdom modifier number times per long rest.

On point.


I would argue for switching your level 6 and 14 class features and making your level 14 spells the ranger knows if it doesn't already, and can cast as rituals. This gives it a small boost in spells known, let's him save his precious spell slots, and puts it somewhere between the warlock and barbarian in terms of usefulness. Warlock has at will utility spells because it has so few spell slots at any given time, so I don't think that's a fair comparison. Ritual casting let's the ranger cast the spell whenever he needs to for exploration and scouting, but if he's in a hurry, he can burn a spell slot on it to speed it up, say in combat, should it come up.

While your level 6 ability is weaker than a paladin aura, it's more comparable to rogue's slippery mind, and monk's diamond soul, which are level 15 and 14 respectively.

Other than that, looks pretty cool.

Problem is, if we bump the 14 ability to 6, the ranger would be able to cast a level-3 spell without having level-3 spell slots.


This is good, I like this. None of them are so good as to unbalance anything (certainly not good enough to consider dipping Ranger for them) and they're also all flavorful. I think the only problem I have is with the level 14 power; it isn't overpowered but I personally don't like the idea of my players talking to every badger and tree they come across. The Ranger putting an ear to a tree and asking it where their quarry went is quite archetypal. The Ranger putting an ear to every tree? Not so much. Perhaps if it was cast as a ritual I would be more convinced.

All in all, I approve. If my current game wasn't mostly newbies, I'd speak to our party Ranger about these tweaks. :)

Thanks for the input.


While I don't think there's something wrong with ranger as is, I do like what you're trying to do here. FWIW, here are my two cents:

Level 6 feature: fine, but too early. This makes a six level MC into ranger potentially the best option for rogues (and other dex/wis characters as well). Consider bumping to 10.

Level 10 feature: I like what you're going for, but it seems a bit too 4e to me. A more 5e solution would have the player rerolling 1s on the damage die, and having to take the second result, even if it's also a 1. Keep in mind though that this makes the dueling, TWF and archery styles objectively better than GWF. However, it is caveated by the favored enemy, which really balances out considerations nicely. Consider moving to 6, to get that offensive boost up and running early.

Level 14 feature: this late in the game, a feature like this seems underpowered. I'd recommend making the casting time for both spells a bonus action, too.

But that's the point of these features, to encourage players taking more levels, dipping or not. If the rogue got to ranger 6, he might as well go 7 for Multiattack Defense, or Exceptional Training. And after that, he might as well go 8 for the ASI, and so on. No more dead levels. As for the rest, some good advice overall. Rangers don't get GWF per class, as a note.


They all strike me as flavorful (except maybe Nature's Blessing), but too little, too late. Nature's Blessing is about half a feat, Stalker's Precision is a virtually undetectable "+1 damage every few rolls," and One with Nature is nice but comes in what, 11 levels after barbarians get virtually the same thing?

Favored Enemy/Terrain should do something from level ONE. And it should by noticeable enough that got remember what is, after all, a very situational boost.

Well, I guess the best part of the terrains are expertising Investigation/Nature/Perception/Survival if you're proficient in them, and the best part of favored enemy is advantage on tracking. It's not entirely bad, it just lacks its place in many campaigns.

[Fwiffo86]

More often than not, I'm telling her "that ability does nothing." That's not a satisfying game experience. She was really excited when she got to fight a dragon because she had favored enemy: dragons. That ability is worth about a fart in the wind.

Resolved by offering benefits to having studied dragons. Such as being able to identify the dragon by its terrain of origin and droppings. Allowing the rest of the party to prepare for the attacks it is most likely to possess that she has studied. This is no longer a "combat" ability, it is an exploration ability.



The group travels through forests and she has favored terrain: forests. But getting lost isn't a mechanic in the game nor a part of any story or module unless it's a plot element, so that ability does nothing.

Resolved by tracking food consumed as an example. Our ranger provides for our party, allowing us to save the rations for when we are in the dungeon exploration part of the game. Making use of the rations (and the exhaustion caused by not eating/drinking) makes even the outlander background exceptionally useful. Again, just because it provides no "combat" bonus, does not reduce its value if used properly.


I can't fix the class because I had already told the group I wouldn't be houseruling, reconning, or homebrewing anything because once that door is open, I know a few players who will whine and cry about everything they want. I can't be throwing out the rules when my gf joins, as any DM will know. So yeah, I'm pissed at MM and JC that my girlfriend crosses her arms when her abilities don't do anything.

The above "fixes" are not homebrewing. They are the intended uses of the class abilities. No new rules or changes are initiated. Our game has benefited greatly from our ranger knowing their favored enemy, their tactics, and abilities before we run into them. They have been one of the most useful and contributing members of our party.

[MrFahrenheit]

But that's the point of these features, to encourage players taking more levels, dipping or not. If the rogue got to ranger 6, he might as well go 7 for Multiattack Defense, or Exceptional Training. And after that, he might as well go 8 for the ASI, and so on. No more dead levels. As for the rest, some good advice overall. Rangers don't get GWF per class, as a note.

Let me try to clarify...the issue with the rogue MC dip wouldn't be how good it is, but that it potentially breaks the balance with other MC options. At level 6, it's TOO good.

I know rangers don't get GWF, but the bigger problem here originally for me was that it presented TOO good of an option for non-GWF melee PCs who aren't single classed Rangers. But the more I think about it, the favored enemy type caveat balances it out. Now I actually think it may be underpowered, coming in at 6 (and especially if you keep it at 10).

Here's an alternate idea: let the favored enemy damage feature settle in at level 1, and have it follow the barbarian rage damage progression. But rather than an ability limited quantitatively (like the barb's rages), it's limited situationally ("sorry dude, your favored enemy is dragons and that's a zombie. Your bonus doesn't apply"). Keep it limited purely to weapon attacks though.

[jas61292]

I may sound salty but my girlfriend is trying DND for the first time and likes her Ranger character, but not her Ranger abilities. More often than not, I'm telling her "that ability does nothing." That's not a satisfying game experience. She was really excited when she got to fight a dragon because she had favored enemy: dragons. That ability is worth about a fart in the wind. The group travels through forests and she has favored terrain: forests. But getting lost isn't a mechanic in the game nor a part of any story or module unless it's a plot element, so that ability does nothing. The ability to move faster through the forest does nothing, because the characters move at the speed of the plot; it takes an identical amount of time for me to say "you travel four days" and "you travel eight days." She can forage to supply the party without slowing down.. but that's already a feature of her Outland background. So basically she can double proficiency in Nature but didn't take that proficiency, so...

I can't fix the class because I had already told the group I wouldn't be houseruling, reconning, or homebrewing anything because once that door is open, I know a few players who will whine and cry about everything they want. I can't be throwing out the rules when my gf joins, as any DM will know. So yeah, I'm pissed at MM and JC that my girlfriend crosses her arms when her abilities don't do anything.

I'm certainly not going to say the ranger is perfect or anything, but to me this sounds like a lot of your issues are due to DMing style, and not the class. Or, rather, in some cases due to false expectations of 5e as a whole.

Yeah, Favored Enemy not actually having direct combat application until level 20 is somewhat disappointing for a player, but that is an intended feature. I think they wanted to avoid making Rangers mediocre, except against certain enemies where they are gods, and so they kept favored enemy as a out of combat feature for a good reason. But its still a great feature to have out of combat.

You say getting lost is not a mechanic, but the whole idea of it is one of the major ideas behind the survival skill. The fact that it doesn't come out and say "roll a DC X check or get lost" is a function of how 5e is made. It doesn't mean it can't happen, it just means it is on the DM to actually use such a thing. If a DM just wants to assume players never can get lost, that is their choice, but that is the DM nerfing the ranger, not the game missing a mechanic.

Similarly, the ability to move faster is absolutely huge in certain campaigns. "You need to rescue someone by midnight or they are sacrificed in some horrid ritual that does bad stuff." If where they are is on the other side of a forest, and it would take 10 hours to get there normally, but a group with a ranger can get there in 5, that gives them 5 more hours to foil the evil plot. Of course, if you as a DM always let PCs operate on their own schedule, then this means nothing. But it also probably means that you are nowhere even close to running the suggested amount of encounters per day, which throws off game balance far more than any one ranger feature.

So yeah, of course a feature is useless if the DM basically eliminates it from the game, but that's true of every feature. But, if as a DM you want your players to have fun with their abilities, you don't do this. That doesn't mean having a party without a ranger get lost all the time, but have it be a possibility. Make time matter (mostly because casters are stupidly unbalanced if they literally have no time pressure), so features that rely on it matter. The game is obviously made to be played so such things matter, so you need to take them into account, or else of course those features will have no impact.

But yeah, all that said... Ranger is indeed lackluster in some ways. Personally I like what the OP did, though Primeval Awareness needs a massive overhaul. But other than that, its a perfectly fine class.

[Specter]

Let me try to clarify...the issue with the rogue MC dip wouldn't be how good it is, but that it potentially breaks the balance with other MC options. At level 6, it's TOO good.

I know rangers don't get GWF, but the bigger problem here originally for me was that it presented TOO good of an option for non-GWF melee PCs who aren't single classed Rangers. But the more I think about it, the favored enemy type caveat balances it out. Now I actually think it may be underpowered, coming in at 6 (and especially if you keep it at 10).

Here's an alternate idea: let the favored enemy damage feature settle in at level 1, and have it follow the barbarian rage damage progression. But rather than an ability limited quantitatively (like the barb's rages), it's limited situationally ("sorry dude, your favored enemy is dragons and that's a zombie. Your bonus doesn't apply"). Keep it limited purely to weapon attacks though.

I understood, but I don't think it's problematic. If a rogue multiclasses into Fighter, he could get the same save at level 6, along with a point in CON. If he went pally, on the other hand, he would get ridonkulous saves from Aura of Protection. The save proficiency just evens it out.

A damage boost could be appropriate too, perhaps even adding prof. bonus to damage, but it could also be too much depending on the campaign.

[Saggo]

VANISH
What it does: Allows you to make a Hide check as a bonus action on your turn in combat. You can't be tracked by nonmagical means
Why it fails: This is not an MMO. Rangers (and Rogues) hiding as a bonus action breaks verisimilitude. If there is a 6' tall crate, I can just stand behind it and take cover, I don't need a special 'hide' ability to do so. If I have a 'hide' ability and use it in combat, well, the enemy will see that I just walked behind the crate (or whatever else I'm hiding behind), walk around it himself, and stab me as I'm crouched down. In World of Warcraft, Rogues could 'Vanish' in combat and become invisible without cover when another avatar is locked onto them. But this isn't a video game. Rangers and rogues don't become invisible when they 'hide', they're just taking cover, which anybody can do. They don't have the mystical ability to cloud an enemy's mind to make him forget where they just went.

Being hidden doesn't mean they forget where you are or lose all context of your position. It means line of sight is broken and they now have a now decreasing amount of confidence on your exact location. Anything they do to you know takes some amount of guessing, reflected by advantage/disadvantage. If they do walk around your cover and regain line of sight, well hidden is of course lost. It's reflected quite well on pages 194-195. The mechanic is solid, it's expected that the player and DMs make the combat narrative work.

You're mostly right, anybody can hide (Hide Action) and break line of sight. It's not unique to Rangers and Rogues at all, they just have the talent/training/mechanic to do it and some other action on the same turn.


- Vanish is very meh, really. Advantage for just a skill check and no resource is not what I'd call meh.

[Specter]

Advantage for just a skill check and no resource is not what I'd call meh.

I have no idea what 'advantage' means in this sentence, but it is very meh regardless. It's one-third of a feature the rogue got at level 2, which is humiliating and lackluster. And if you went for a ranger-rogue multiclass, you get nothing. The other part of the feature should almost never be used, since as it was mentioned this is a group game, and even when it does see use, level-14 characters have many ways to locate someone.

[Malifice]

Ranger is great to 5th, but there is literally no reason to stick with it after this point.

Any 'fixes' need to encourage sticking with the class, and shoring up any weaknesses with it.

Personally I prefer to tweak Hunters Mark with the following line:

Special: If you have at least 11 levels in Ranger, the spell has a duration of 8 hours and no longer requires concentration.

I'd grant Rangers the 'Skirmisher' ability at 9th level (You may use the Search, disengage and dash action as a bonus action).

I'd grant Rangers the 'Longshanks' ability at 13th level (You and any animal companion you gain through a Ranger archetype gain a +10' move speed when not wearing heavy armor)

At 17th level the Ranger gets 'Improved favored enemy' (You gain advantage on attack rolls against favored enemies).

I'd change the 20th level capstone to +Wis to damage on all attacks against favored enemies.

Finally I would tweak the Beastmasters beast to automatically rise to 1 HP at the end of any encounter where it has been reduced to 0 HP and not killed, and to recover all lost HP on a short rest. I would allow the beast free movement on the Rangers turn, and the ability for the Ranger command it (as a bonus action) to use the Hide, Disengage, Dash, Search and Attack (one attack only) action. Exceptional training adds the Help action to this list. Bestial Fury unlocks multiattack if the beast has the ability (as a bonus action). It can take reactions as normal.

[MaxWilson]

I have no idea what 'advantage' means in this sentence, but it is very meh regardless. It's one-third of a feature the rogue got at level 2, which is humiliating and lackluster. And if you went for a ranger-rogue multiclass, you get nothing. The other part of the feature should almost never be used, since as it was mentioned this is a group game, and even when it does see use, level-14 characters have many ways to locate someone.

Are you kidding? It's not just advantage on your next attack, it's also "I'm almost invulnerable to single-target attacks". The Ranger can now afford to throw down a Fog Cloud and Hide within it on the same turn, then commence plinking away with his bow (Volley!) on subsequent rounds. There are admittedly cheaper ways to get the same ability via multiclassing to Rogue, but if you're going to Ranger 20, picking up Vanish along the way is neat.

Ranger doesn't need Disengage anyway, he can just use Escape the Horde to get much of the same effect at no action cost. Missing out on the Dash part of Cunning Action is too bad, but Cunning Action (Hide) is arguably the best part of Cunning Action anyway, and the only one that can't be replicated via Expeditious Retreat.

[Saggo]

I have no idea what 'advantage' means in this sentence, but it is very meh regardless. It's one-third of a feature the rogue got at level 2, which is humiliating and lackluster. And if you went for a ranger-rogue multiclass, you get nothing. The other part of the feature should almost never be used, since as it was mentioned this is a group game, and even when it does see use, level-14 characters have many ways to locate someone.

Advantage on your next attack, which is useful to anyone and amazing for a Ranger with Sharpshooter. As a bonus action it can work on the same turn. And as Max mentioned, it's great for self-defense. At no resource cost, only for a skill check.

When you a skill isn't the same as how useful a skill is to have. It is unfortunate that it's so late in Ranger progression but a bonus action Hide is a game changer.

As for multiclassing Rogue, a rogue dip delays Ranger progression and splitting into Rogue locks you out of any remaining Ranger features. Of course a Rogue dip/MC is great for a lot of builds, but it can't fully replicate a Ranger if that's the feature set a person wants. But that's been talked to death in a variety of threads. So Vanish is pretty awesome to have.

[quinron]

Stalker's Precision
Starting at 10th level, when you roll damage against one of your favored enemies, you can treat any 1 on a damage die as a 2.

I agree that this should probably be a reroll instead of a flat boost, as that's a bit more in keeping with other similar abilities.

However, and more importantly for me, this is dangerously ambiguous wording. As written, a ranger whose favored enemy is beasts could send a rat in among any group of enemies and automatically get a damage boost on any AoE spell; the shenanigans become even more outrageous if you MC into wizard or sorcerer. If you do change it to a reroll, you're basically giving the ranger Empowered Spell for free as long as they can get a beast in among their enemies, and we have something eerily similar to 3.5's bag-o'-rats farce.

Some language to clarify what exactly this works on would be prudent: only on weapon attacks, only on attacks/effects with only one target, etc. Just something to make it clear.

[Specter]

I agree that this should probably be a reroll instead of a flat boost, as that's a bit more in keeping with other similar abilities.

However, and more importantly for me, this is dangerously ambiguous wording. As written, a ranger whose favored enemy is beasts could send a rat in among any group of enemies and automatically get a damage boost on any AoE spell; the shenanigans become even more outrageous if you MC into wizard or sorcerer. If you do change it to a reroll, you're basically giving the ranger Empowered Spell for free as long as they can get a beast in among their enemies, and we have something eerily similar to 3.5's bag-o'-rats farce.

Some language to clarify what exactly this works on would be prudent: only on weapon attacks, only on attacks/effects with only one target, etc. Just something to make it clear.

Alright, makes sense.


Advantage on your next attack, which is useful to anyone and amazing for a Ranger with Sharpshooter. As a bonus action it can work on the same turn. And as Max mentioned, it's great for self-defense. At no resource cost, only for a skill check.

When you a skill isn't the same as how useful a skill is to have. It is unfortunate that it's so late in Ranger progression but a bonus action Hide is a game changer.

As for multiclassing Rogue, a rogue dip delays Ranger progression and splitting into Rogue locks you out of any remaining Ranger features. Of course a Rogue dip/MC is great for a lot of builds, but it can't fully replicate a Ranger if that's the feature set a person wants. But that's been talked to death in a variety of threads. So Vanish is pretty awesome to have.


Are you kidding? It's not just advantage on your next attack, it's also "I'm almost invulnerable to single-target attacks". The Ranger can now afford to throw down a Fog Cloud and Hide within it on the same turn, then commence plinking away with his bow (Volley!) on subsequent rounds. There are admittedly cheaper ways to get the same ability via multiclassing to Rogue, but if you're going to Ranger 20, picking up Vanish along the way is neat.

Ranger doesn't need Disengage anyway, he can just use Escape the Horde to get much of the same effect at no action cost. Missing out on the Dash part of Cunning Action is too bad, but Cunning Action (Hide) is arguably the best part of Cunning Action anyway, and the only one that can't be replicated via Expeditious Retreat.

No, I'm not kidding. For a level-14 ability, Vanish is meh. Of course it sets new strategies, but it's one-third of a level-2 ability. You can't vote for that. If you're making Rangers wait 12 levels for a Rogue feature, at least make it better, not worse.

And as I said, there are many ways for level-14 characters to locate anyone, or even just ready an action to attack you when you show up. As for Escape the Horde, that is all assuming a) the Ranger is not a Beastmaster, and b) he didn't take Multiattack Defense (which is better in many scenarios) or Steel Will.

And let's not forget, a rogue getting advantage from hiding gets to add a load of dice to his damage, the ranger doesn't. Unless he has Sharpshooter, it's just a plain hit.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I'm certainly not going to say the ranger is perfect or anything, but to me this sounds like a lot of your issues are due to DMing style, and not the class. Or, rather, in some cases due to false expectations of 5e as a whole.
Supposition: If a main class can be rendered invalid by common campaign styles (ie, anything that's not gritty wilderness survival), there exists a problem with its design. I don't think anything else in 5e is so narrowly focused.

[jas61292]

Supposition: If a main class can be rendered invalid by common campaign styles (ie, anything that's not gritty wilderness survival), there exists a problem with its design. I don't think anything else in 5e is so narrowly focused.

There is a big difference between not being a wilderness survival campaign and completely ignoring wilderness dangers and time pressures.

Obviously, if your campaign is set 100% in one city, the Ranger is less useful (which makes sense, as the entire idea behind the class is outdoorsy). But otherwise, you can always find uses for their abilities.

"DMs ignoring parts of the game" is not a campaign style.

[Saggo]

No, I'm not kidding. For a level-14 ability, Vanish is meh. Of course it sets new strategies, but it's one-third of a level-2 ability. You can't vote for that. If you're making Rangers wait 12 levels for a Rogue feature, at least make it better, not worse.

And as I said, there are many ways for level-14 characters to locate anyone, or even just ready an action to attack you when you show up. As for Escape the Horde, that is all assuming a) the Ranger is not a Beastmaster, and b) he didn't take Multiattack Defense (which is better in many scenarios) or Steel Will.

And let's not forget, a rogue getting advantage from hiding gets to add a load of dice to his damage, the ranger doesn't. Unless he has Sharpshooter, it's just a plain hit.

Only passive features that ignore line of sight like Blindsense will completely nullify hidden, which aren't common. As for the other primary passive skill Perception, at 14 with +10 from proficiency and Dex, something like a Beholder (Average/Passive Perception 22, above average for most CRs) only has about a 60% chance of seeing you. That's a 40% chance to be untargetable by an eye ray, for a bonus action. You won't be Vanishing from an Ancient Dragon any time soon without concentrating on Pass without Trace, that's true, but a lot of features are useless if your campaign is a string of ancient dragon-like boss fights.

Otherwise any active attempt to find a hidden person is tying up a resource or action they'd otherwise be using to kill the party, and that's a win for a bonus action. After all, a readied attack is an attack they didn't make their turn. There's a lot of use to justify a standalone feature, Rogues are just all the more lucky for getting it and 2 other options.

That also mean, to your argument, having it sooner would be beneficial (I think we'd all want a Vanish/Cunning Action regardless of level or class). But a bonus action Hide being useful at 14 also means getting it at 14 without multiclassing is just as useful, and it certainly outclasses a lot of high level features like Turn Undead CR3 upgrade or Alter Self at will.

[Specter]

So I've taken suggestions into consideration, and edited the 10th and 14th-level abilities a bit. The damage equalizer of level 10 now turns 1's and 2's into a 3 to avoid bad damage rolls, but limiting it to weapon attacks; it would be abusable with Spike Growth. The 14th-level feature now isn't tied to terrains (because it makes no sense to not be able to speak to a bird in the city).

[Sigreid]

IMO, the only two fixes I would like to see on Ranger would be the favored terrain applying to all terrains and for Beastmaster to at some level get the ability for their pet to strike beings that require a magic item to hit (probably level 6 as I think that's when druid gets it for their druid form).

Just my 2 copper. Carry on. :smallsmile:

[djreynolds]

We treat hunter's mark as a normal spell, but when facing a favored enemy you automatically gain the hunter's mark damage versus all of them. Simple, easy fix.