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Solo
2007-06-30, 02:00 AM
Recently, I was talking with my DM about theme builds, and i wanted to try and turn my sorcerer into a force user (not exactly a Jedi, as I can't enter combat)

What spells can be used to replicate a Jedi's force abilities? (Keep non-core stuff to a minimum)

So far I have:

0:
Daze
Dancing lights
Prestidigitation
Mage Hand
Electric Jolt (Force Spark) (Feel the Power of the DARK SIDE!)

1:
Charm Person (Mind Trick)
Magic Missile (Force Orb)
Shield (Force Deflection)
Jump (Force Jump)
Cause Fear (Force Fear)

2:
Invisibility (Force Cloak)
Detect Thoughts (Force Sense) (Your thoughts betray you)
Seeking Ray (Force Lightening)

3:
Lightening Bolt (Force Lightening)
Haste (Force Speed)
Slow (Force Slow)
Fly (Force Flight, Force Jump)
Heroism

4:
Fear (Force Fear)
Orb of Force (Force Orb)
Invisibility, Greater (Force Cloak)
Charm Monster (Mind Trick)

5:
Telekinesis (Force Grip, Push, etc)
Wall of Force (Force Block)
Dominate Person (Mind Control)

6:
Chain Lightening (Chain Lightening) (Power! Unlimited Power!)
Heroism, Greater

7:
Spell Turning (Whatever Yoda did to Palpatine in the Senate fight.)

8: 2
Moment of Prescience
Clenched Fist
Charm Monster, Mass

9: 2
Timestop
Foresight
Dominate Monster (Mind Control)

Anything else?

Gaelbert
2007-06-30, 02:05 AM
Do you want to have spells exactly matching what is seen in the movies, or can we just go with a general theme? For example, Zone of Peace from Cityscape makes it impossible for anyone to draw a weapon, which is good for a peaceful/negotiator Jedi. Also, Jedi or Sith?

Tor the Fallen
2007-06-30, 02:06 AM
Take a look at psionics at www.d20srd.org. There's stuff like Crisis of Breath, which is essentially a Force Choke, and other stuff like that.

Solo
2007-06-30, 02:08 AM
Do you want to have spells exactly matching what is seen in the movies, or can we just go with a general theme? For example, Zone of Peace from Cityscape makes it impossible for anyone to draw a weapon, which is good for a peaceful/negotiator Jedi. Also, Jedi or Sith?

close enough is good enough.

And I'm making a Jedi, but I'm not objecting to using Sith powers occasionally

Gaelbert
2007-06-30, 02:13 AM
Daze, dancing lights, and prestidigitation, depending on how you use it all sound good.

Solo
2007-06-30, 04:41 AM
Do you suppose a Battle Sorcerer will be good for this build?

Caewil
2007-06-30, 04:54 AM
Perhaps, although you should take a level of monk and get the Asthetic mage feat. Charisma to AC. Pretty good overall. You could also PrC into "Master of the Unseen hand." Pretty jedi-ish.

If you can get to use Iames Wilder and Sounknife fixes, even better. Just build a Wilder with the appropriate powers and grab the Soulknife feats. Instant lightsaber.

Solo
2007-06-30, 05:06 AM
True, but Psionics isn't as widely accepted as arcane magic.

Hmm... A battle sorcerer with the Celerity Domain via Arcane Disciple and who can cast Haste, Jump, and Telekinesis while finessing a Keen Brilliant Energy Rapier...

If he were a Goblin, I'd have made Yoda

Seffbasilisk
2007-06-30, 07:29 AM
I dunno, I always so Yoda as a Half-Brass dragon Halfling without the breath weapon.

With a Brilliant Energy, Flaming, Ki Focus Longsword, the feat whirling steel strike, and the spring attack chain.

Solo
2007-06-30, 07:41 AM
I dunno, I always so Yoda as a Half-Brass dragon Halfling without the breath weapon.

With a Brilliant Energy, Flaming, Ki Focus Longsword, the feat whirling steel strike, and the spring attack chain.

and 50 ranks in tumble...

squidthingy
2007-06-30, 07:44 AM
Take a look at the master of the unseen hand PrC(I think it's either in the Faiths & Pantheons or Complete Warrior)

Solo
2007-06-30, 07:52 AM
Take a look at the master of the unseen hand PrC(I think it's either in the Faiths & Pantheons or Complete Warrior)

No caster level progression :smallyuk:

cupkeyk
2007-06-30, 08:14 AM
Actually, master of the unseen hand is exactly what the jedi seem to be, Take MotUH levels and Abjurant Champion from Compete Mage. Use suggestion, glibness and calm emotions a lot, with spells jump, expeditious retreat.

There is a Star Wars d20. You prolly find a copy and ask your dm to just carry over a Jedi Knight into Dnd, they aren't uberly broken sine they are skills dependent with their force effects.

Solo
2007-06-30, 08:35 AM
Abjurant Champion is a great PrC, but i don't have complete mage.... so could someone tell me more about it?

(Due to copyright infringement issues, if anyone wants to tell me a lot more about it, they are advised to PM me):smallsmile:

Droodle
2007-06-30, 11:43 AM
I can't believe you left out Suggestion and Charm Monster.

cupkeyk
2007-06-30, 11:50 AM
I changed my mind. You should totally be swiftblade.

clickity: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327

Piccamo
2007-06-30, 12:50 PM
Abjurant Champion is a great PrC, but i don't have complete mage.... so could someone tell me more about it?

(Due to copyright infringement issues, if anyone wants to tell me a lot more about it, they are advised to PM me):smallsmile:

Full caster progression, full BAB, bonuses to your abjuration spells (like Shield). It has fairly easy prereqs.

Mr. Moogle
2007-06-30, 06:53 PM
This whole thread is proof that any class I made as a pixie in the playground was ignored without a thought. If you would, please look at the force adept class in my signature. You may/ may not find this usefull but it would really make my day if you looked.

TheOOB
2007-06-30, 08:43 PM
This whole thread is proof that any class I made as a pixie in the playground was ignored without a thought. If you would, please look at the force adept class in my signature. You may/ may not find this usefull but it would really make my day if you looked.

Your board ranking has little to do with how people judge your work, I think the main reason your class was ignored was that you didn't have a table and didn't follow the standard format for PrCs.

Anyways, I think that, as mentioned, psionics is the best way to represent force powers. Many of the powers are very similar to what force adepts use, and the psionic power point system in general makes more sense then the preperation system, plus the psychic warrior is a shoe in for a jedi guardian like luke skywalker or darth vader.

If you still want to go arcane, battle sorcerer is your best single class bet.

Solo
2007-06-30, 09:29 PM
Agreed, Psionics does a better job of making a Jedi than arcane magic, but my DM doesn't like psionics... something about it being "overpowered" (haha).

Thanks for the help, everybody.

TheOOB
2007-06-30, 09:31 PM
Agreed, Psionics does a better job of making a Jedi than arcane magic, but my DM doesn't like psionics... something about it being "overpowered" (haha).

Thanks for the help, everybody.

"Overpowered"? I believe that translates to "I don't know much about the system and would rather not allow something in my game with which I do not have a comfortable knowledge of"

Fizban
2007-06-30, 10:04 PM
Of the top of my head, there's a spell in the Spell Compendium, Ray Deflection IIRC, that would do for deflecting well, rays. I think it was fourth level.

There's an assortment of spells you could use as a lightsaber: Flame Dagger, Flame Blade (with some DM fudging), Scimitar of Sand, Moonblade (with arcane disciple or fudging), Decastave, and Blade of Pain and Fear all create effective weapons in your hand that hit on touch attacks. Decastave (Unapproachable East) works like a quarterstaff and is thus a double weapon, and deals force damage, and Blade of Pain and Fear also deals force damage, as well as a minor fear effect (in can be found in several books, includeing the SC). Moonblade is made of pure light and has a spellcasting disrupting effect that's nice.

Edit: Decastave also has the thundering property, so you even get the lightsaber hum.

kpenguin
2007-06-30, 10:49 PM
For the people who are saying psionics... what psionic class would best model a jedi? Psion has the best selection of psionic powers, but lacks the martial ability. Psionic warrior has the best martial ability, but lacks psionic power as well as access to the telekinesis branch of powers.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-06-30, 11:04 PM
For the people who are saying psionics... what psionic class would best model a jedi? Psion has the best selection of psionic powers, but lacks the martial ability. Psionic warrior has the best martial ability, but lacks psionic power as well as access to the telekinesis branch of powers.

Psion/Slayer. Best of both worlds.

Or perhaps Swordsage/Psion with a brilliant energy rapier.

kpenguin
2007-07-01, 12:43 AM
How about something similar to a sunblade (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#sunBlade)?

Sun blades are bastard-sword length, so they are as big as a standard lightsaber, and are light as a shortsword, so they fit a lightsaber ease of use from lightness. It would have to be modified, but it could work.

Also, a brilliant energy weapon wouldn't work because brilliant energy weapons don't harm constructs. If a lightsaber were a brilliant energy weapon, then it wouldn't be able to harm droids or walkers.

Fizban
2007-07-01, 02:05 AM
I'd thought of that before, and actually posted my idea in an ooooooold thread where someone had statted a lightsaber:

Incorporeal touch attack.

It ignores armor and natural armor and there's no reason it couldn't affect constructs (it's just to determine if the attack hits), but can be blocked by deflection bonuses and force armor (shields and such).

kpenguin
2007-07-01, 03:40 AM
What about cortosis?

Solo
2007-07-01, 10:14 AM
"Overpowered"? I believe that translates to "I don't know much about the system and would rather not allow something in my game with which I do not have a comfortable knowledge of"

You left out "And I won't listen to arguments to the contrary no matter how much proof you have that psionics isn't broken."

lord_khaine
2007-07-01, 10:50 AM
generaly i think dm's of that type deserve a round of CODzilla to see whats really owerpowered.
afterwards when the survivors climb out of the smoking ruins, they might be a bit more open to a more ballanced system :P