Which is the better spell?

[Paeleus]

The situation is a rescue mission. Enemy prison camp holding 500+ orcs (probably way more) plus prisoners back behind enemy lines. I could let the shadow monk and the warlock do all the work, but the prisoner we plan to rescue is tied to my PC.

The dilemma I'm facing is between Disguise Self and Alter Self.

The perks of Disguise Self are: allows me to appear as an Orc in armor and to keep my weapon on me person. Cons are: if they touch me, the jig is up and most likely death/failure.

The pros on Alter Self: enemies can touch me without giving it away. Cons: won't have a weapon, it only changes my physical appearance, not armor, and my non-Orc weapon will stick out like a sore thumb, thus betraying my appearance = death/failure.

I guess I could run both since disguise self is non concentration, but number of spells known and spell slots are limited. Getting out isn't too much of an issue since I have a Cape of the Montebanc.

Thanks in advance.

[MaxWilson]

If being discovered means death and/or failure, then the lack of a weapon probably doesn't matter much. I'd go with Alter Self in this case.

[Dalebert]

Discreetly kill or kidnap one orc on the fringes. Take his stuff. Alter Self and wear his stuff. You should be able to hide a few items you need.

[R.Shackleford]

Is there a reason why Invisibility isn't an option?

Also, disguise self isn't concentration so why not both?

Alter yourself to be an orc and then disguise self to hide your weapon. Your disguise will just happen to look like your alter self.

[Telesto]

Discreetly kill or kidnap one orc on the fringes. Take his stuff. Alter Self and wear his stuff. You should be able to hide a few items you need.

Seconded. I was going to suggest just this

[RickAllison]

How good is your PC at lying? A good boast about how you looted your gear from a knight and the grisly details of your kill should cover that track and help you blend in with the other warriors.

[Dalebert]

Is there a reason why Invisibility isn't an option?

Seems like a very high chance of being discovered amongst 500 orcs. I'd give him advantage on stealth (since an elven cloak does and it's not even full invis), but even with a high stealth, having to make the roll over and over allows for a high chance of discovery.


Also, disguise self isn't concentration so why not both?

He already said in the OP.


I guess I could run both since disguise self is non concentration, but number of spells known and spell slots are limited.

I'm going to say Alter Self somewhat definitively. I just remembered that Disguise Self can be seen to be a magical disguise if you give anyone suspicion and thus a reason to inspect you. It could be they say something to you and you speak Orcish with a thick accent, for instance. It could be because you're in a place where they don't expect to see an unfamiliar orc.

[R.Shackleford]

Seems like a very high chance of being discovered amongst 500 orcs. I'd give him advantage on stealth (since an elven cloak does and it's not even full invis), but even with a high stealth, having to make the roll over and over allows for a high chance of discovery.



He already said in the OP.



I'm going to say Alter Self somewhat definitively. I just remembered that Disguise Self can be seen to be a magical disguise if you give anyone suspicion and thus a reason to inspect you. It could be they say something to you and you speak Orcish with a thick accent, for instance. It could be because you're in a place where they don't expect to see an unfamiliar orc.

OP mentions both but doesn't give a good reason not to. If using both spell slots get you out of the danger zone then use both spell slots.

Saving a spell slot for a hypothetical need when you have an actual need is a bit backwards. You will still have your cantrips and first level spells which are typically good enough to get you through any low level issues.

[Paeleus]

How good is your PC at lying? A good boast about how you looted your gear from a knight and the grisly details of your kill should cover that track and help you blend in with the other warriors.

Ah, not a bad idea it some campaign settings. I say this because the orcs speak their own language and are extremely prejudiced against humans/elves/dwarves/etc. I had planned to include a scar on my throat or some other grisly scar to help be bluff my way through (thank RNGesus for prof in deception).


Seems like a very high chance of being discovered amongst 500 orcs. I'd give him advantage on stealth (since an elven cloak does and it's not even full invis), but even with a high stealth, having to make the roll over and over allows for a high chance of discovery.



He already said in the OP.



I'm going to say Alter Self somewhat definitively. I just remembered that Disguise Self can be seen to be a magical disguise if you give anyone suspicion and thus a reason to inspect you. It could be they say something to you and you speak Orcish with a thick accent, for instance. It could be because you're in a place where they don't expect to see an unfamiliar orc.

I wish I knew orcish. There's going to be some bluffing on my end to get through. Hopefully their respect for violence and my ability to dish it out will come in handy.


OP mentions both but doesn't give a good reason not to. If using both spell slots get you out of the danger zone then use both spell slots.

Saving a spell slot for a hypothetical need when you have an actual need is a bit backwards. You will still have your cantrips and first level spells which are typically good enough to get you through any low level issues.

My reasons are resource management. It's a gritty style campaign where a long rest is a week and I actually have very limited spells known. But I see your point. Resources are there to burn when you need them.

[MaxWilson]

Ah, not a bad idea it some campaign settings. I say this because the orcs speak their own language and are extremely prejudiced against humans/elves/dwarves/etc. I had planned to include a scar on my throat or some other grisly scar to help be bluff my way through (thank RNGesus for prof in deception).

I wish I knew orcish. There's going to be some bluffing on my end to get through. Hopefully their respect for violence and my ability to dish it out will come in handy.

When in doubt, point to the scar on your throat and scowl and gesture--pretend to be deaf-mute.

Maybe Alter Self into an orc with no ears (and horrible scarring there) to make your point extra-strong.

[Dalebert]

When in doubt, point to the scar on your throat and scowl and gesture--pretend to be deaf-mute.

Maybe Alter Self into an orc with no ears (and horrible scarring there) to make your point extra-strong.

I'd give adv on deception for that to remove suspicion. It's way easier to grunt and act confused than to believably tell some concocted story.

[Specter]

If you're choosing one, Alter Self. For all the reasons that were mentioned, and something else: with Disguise Self, if you act suspicious or give them reason to believe you're not who you say you are, they can inspect you with Investigation to see through your disguise, and the same doesn't happen with Alter Self.

[MaxWilson]

I'd give adv on deception for that to remove suspicion. It's way easier to grunt and act confused than to believably tell some concocted story.

I have to admit, I stole that one from Diana Wynne Jones (The Lives of Christopher Chant). Pretending to be deaf-mute is Christopher's interaction mode in Anywheres where they don't speak English.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

If there are only about 500 of them there are probably orcs in that camp that pride themselves on recognizing every last one of them. The larger the force turns out to be, the better your disguise works. An while there are maybe 2 officers that really remembered every face in there, several more would have remembered a deaf mute with huge scars. If the group is small, try to stay unremarkable.

I'm going to second the "get one on the fringes and steal his stuff" idea. The situation allows for mundane abilities to enhance the effectiveness of your spell. A real orc outfit beats a disguise that can be dispelled by touch. Maybe check the outfit for something like regiment insignias though, if you are identifiable as a member of a small group from this side of the camp, be sure to enter from the other side. The other soldiers from the same tribe/faction/something might see through your act even if you alter self to the shape of that individual orc.

As an added bonus, do you have a way to cast some sort of additional illusion, like a really big mean orc guard dog/worg like the ones at the gate? (Keep insisting you saw them there, the GM might cave.) There will be less orcs getting near you, and you aren't expected to pay as much attention to others as well, since you're obviously busy with something.