OOTS #471 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Squark]

Meh... I've seen better. But pretty good. Especially the broken glass part. Oh. And the darkvision part.

[Deathmachine]

that's just elan :smallbiggrin:


edit: damnit, my signature was ninjad :smalleek:

[Yechezkiel]

Durkon eye beams go!

[Illiterate Scribe]

Why is Durkon so prone to blinding people?

Aah, my eyes!

[SKarious]

Hee hee
Durkon loves blinding people.
"My poor useless eyes"

[rosebud]

Let's hope the subject of payment doesn't come up. Haley would still love him, but she'd be so much more enthralled if the lute was looted. :smallwink:

[Miraqariftsky]

That was all so graaaand! It kept me laughing until the last panel.

What's a B-plot?

Does "B" mean mediocre? If so, then I heartily disagree. One of the primary purposes of OotS was and is comedy--- and from that respect, I say it gets an A.

Or did I misinterpret that?

[Jonathan327]

More info on Dashing Swordsman abilities. Huzzah.

[Ailurus]

Immune to glass-related injuries? I think Haley would love to find out about that - why bother sneaking in to try to rob a place, when you can just smash through the window with no damage and take it.

[Spiryt]

:elan: The World is my muse!

[hewhosaysfish]

Let's hope the subject of payment doesn't come up. Haley would still love him, but she'd be so much more enthralled if the lute was looted. :smallwink:

Looted lute... should I be disappointed or relieved that joke didn't end up in the strip?

[Adrius]

Oh I LOVE the further insight into the Dashing Swordsman prestige class. Don't ask me why, but I think immunity to shattering glass is just cool as hell for a class feature.

[Scarab83]

He should've taken the harp. Much classier. :smallbiggrin:

[Thanatos 51-50]

Yay! Elan has a lute!

Elan is, however seeming a bit Lawful for a Bard (whos supposedly Chaotic, as per the class & level geekery thread). I understand the "Good", but the towns on FIRE! I'm pretty sure Music Store guy expected his shop to be looted by a passing bard who was without an instrument.

Oh, wait. Elan.
Gotchya.
<Worthless Edit with White text, so you won't see it unless you're looking: First page!>

[Guts]

yay first or secong page! i guess shlubbo noname-zaki shares my opinion that elan is an annoying son of a gun :smallannoyed: kinda of weird seeing rich doing some 'self criticism'.
i think b-plot meant background plots, ie the side quests

[exxor]

Elan being Elan is the best way to cut the tension from the last strips.

[Yuki Akuma]

...I'm loving the two Nameless NPCs right now.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Yeah, I don't see Elan as Chaotic Good at all. The others at least fit their alignment. His don't.

However, in this case at least theres nothing annoying about him. Now that bit where he was all 'Wanna make out?' to Haley was annoying. You'd think a bard would have more of the romantic to him.

Anyways, its amazing how these NPC's have lived so long...
Must have something store for them. Maybe they'll last to the end and there will be some joke about them actually living to a ripe old age.

[SPoD]

What's a B-plot?

A "B-plot" is the plot that is secondary to the main plot. As in, the main plot (the "A-plot") is the Gates, Xykon, etc. The B-plots are the subplots that come up and then are resolved, like Haley's voice, Belkar's Mark of Justice, Durkon's fling with Hilgya, etc.

[Imrahil]

You have to love Elan for these moments: the city is in ruins, all of the civilians are gone, and yet he still wants to wait in order to get a new lute just so they won't be without compensation. He can be extremely worldly, yet at the same time completely naive.

Oh, and I'm not going to make any remarks about the 'looted' lute. Except that one.

[Dugray]

Finally.. And god's no.. Our poor merciful ears shall suffer.

[cyberchihuahua]

Aww, poor shop keeper. His store got luted...:smallwink:

[Ezlo]

Good to see that Durkon remembered his Dark Vision this time.:smallbiggrin:

[rosebud]

What's a B-plot?How funny. I wackyparsed that as "B-flats" and thought it was a musical reference I didn't quite understand. :smallsmile:

[carborundum]

Yup, now he can inspire Haley to "Lob, lob, lob the crow-ravaged corpse of Roy to the departing ship's deck!"

[dactylos]

Love the Darkvision joke.
:durkon: rocks.

[Mordokai]

Roy just got one reason to not wanted to be rezzed :smalltongue:

Amusing comic, I'll say that much.

[Caledonian]

It would be a nice touch if Elan's new lute were instrumental in the group's safe arrival at the junk and subsequent escape.

Heh, heh. "Instrumental".

[DreadArchon]

Breaking into somewhere and stealing something is really more of an Evil act than a Chaotic act, if it's not somehow important. Getting equipped to save your party from murder is a pretty good reason; looting shiny-bits because nobody is around to stop you isn't.

Being as he had the gp, there really wasn't anything Lawful about paying for the lute.

Edit: And for the record, a masterwork lute gives you +1 to your effective bard level for your music effects. If he's got 13 levels of bard, that would be enough to make his Inspire Courage better. If he's only 11 (due to Dashing Swordsman levels), that would give him Song of Freedom. In the likely event that he's Brd 12 | DSw 1, though, it wouldn't do much of anything for him.

[Finn Solomon]

From the title I thought we were going to see the return of Vaarsuvius.

[Elderac]

Hooray! Elan has a new lute! :smallbiggrin:

I think Rich should detail the Dashing Swordsman PRC in the gaming section. It sounds like a fun prestige class. :elan:

[EntilZha]

Gah, what an idiot! (Elan, I mean, not any poster on this thread. Just wanted to make that clear)

[basilisk 89]

Woohoo! More moments from the NPCs.

[mdvk1012]

He should've taken the harp. Much classier. :smallbiggrin:
He couldn't take the harp since bard's specialize in a certain type of music style (voice, instrument, etc) and then a specific type of instrument. He couldn't put any new points into harp since he is now putting them into his dashing swordsmen class.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

Heh, if it was one of our PC's it would have been like...

:elan: *smash*

:confused: What are you doing?

:elan: Depriving the enemy of the spoils of war...

:biggrin: good idea...best not to leave anything they could use

[Porthos]

And Elan once again has a lute to torment people. Our long luteless nightmare is over indeed. :smallsmile:

[Ink]

So Elan's that averse to stealing... but his girlfriend's a thief?

Perhaps that'll be a source of friction down the road...

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Hooray! Elan has a new lute! :smallbiggrin:

I think Rich should detail the Dashing Swordsman PRC in the gaming section. It sounds like a fun prestige class. :elan:

Ooh! I second that one! Love the Dashing Swordsman, would love to see class and progression information, so I can add it to my bard!

[Scarab83]

He couldn't take the harp since bard's specialize in a certain type of music style (voice, instrument, etc) and then a specific type of instrument. He couldn't put any new points into harp since he is now putting them into his dashing swordsmen class.

Psh.. that seems rather limiting. I can understand specializing in a type of instrument (i.e. string, wind, percussion, etc.) but to focus his entire bardic career on a lute? Such a waste of muse. :smallwink:

[Branco]

Elan's way of talking to the lute was somewhat reminiscient to Butters from South Park talking to his wiener. Scary.

[iabervon]

He should've taken the harp. Much classier. :smallbiggrin:

But then, in panel 9, when he asked it if it wanted to come with him, he wouldn't have been able to trust its answer, because that instrument is obviously a lyre.

[itliaf]

Hehe, it's nice to see Elan being Elan carrying an entire strip every once in awhile. It seems like he hasn't been in the spotlight sense his big inspiring speech. Also, since I seem to have a terrible memory for b-plots (I'm just waiting for someone to point out some more recent Elan-focused strip I forgot about) When was Vaarsuvius not an elf? and when did Elan get magical rapier(s)?

[Lycar]

Poor Elan. The other PCs get dozens of strips dedicated to their B-plots, and Elan ?

:elan: Uhm... im kinda still without an instrument here ?

:tongue: Okay, you come across a music shop which just happens to have a shiny new lute in the window...

I mean, come on. At least he tried to do the goody-two-shoes thing about it and not just the usual PC-thing of 'i smash the glass and grab it' .

Gotta admit he is devoted to being the good guy. :smallsmile:


Lycar

[TroyXavier]

Ahh Elan...once again you show why you're my favorite member of the Stick.:smallcool:

[mohair_ninja]

When was Vaarsuvius not an elf? and when did Elan get magical rapier(s)?

V was turned into a lizard somewhere in 100-200, Elan got his first rapier somewhere in the beginning (when he was running aroung "invisible") and the second was given him by Julio near #390
I don't have time to seek precisely.

When I saw the title, I thought, that V would be back, but Noname-zakis arguing with Elan are also good.

[Menarker]

Two thoughts come to mind.

The redshirts probably thought of Elan as someone a bit simple and naive, but an overall good guy, especially after that public show of affection for Haley. This made them consider it not such a bad idea if they were a bit like that too... aside from the simplemindedness, of course. ^^
BUT NOW, we got the annoying Elan coming back in strides, and somehow I get the feeling that the more annoying he gets, the more accidental adverse friction there'll be between no-names as they even ATTEMPT to compare their potential "relationship" with Haley and the guy whom they'll wince to remember him as "THE BLONDE BLUNDERING IDIOT"


Secondly, Yeah, Roy will probably wake up Rezzed to the sound of beautiful music, worthy as the companion piece for the "Eulogy of Roy", but have the stupidest lyrics consisting of "Verb Verb Verb the Adjective Pronoun".

:smallbiggrin:



Hehe, it's nice to see Elan being Elan carrying an entire strip every once in awhile. It seems like he hasn't been in the spotlight sense his big inspiring speech. Also, since I seem to have a terrible memory for b-plots (I'm just waiting for someone to point out some more recent Elan-focused strip I forgot about) When was Vaarsuvius not an elf? and when did Elan get magical rapier(s)?

To help with your memory, Vaarsuvius was hexed into a lizard during the starmetal quest.
Elan's first rapier was broken as a gag during the sundering gag by Belkar just as they encountered Trigoyk. The replacement was found by Haley while she looted the goblins, taking everything else.
THAT rapier was confiscated along with all his stuff back in Cliffport, and he got the new current one from our sexy friendly Airpirate Scoundrel Julio.

[Pantler]

Filler, but cute. Nice to know more Dashing Swordsman's class features. And I'm glad to know that there will be more "Verb, verb verb the adjective noun" competence-inspiring songs. Plus, the redshirts are growing on me :smallsmile:

[Woofsie]

Nice comic. Loved the South Park reference. :D



...At least I think it was a South Park reference. Maybe it's just me, but in the third-last panel I can't help hearing Mr. Garrison and Mr. Hat rather than Elan and Mr. Lute.

[mikeejimbo]

Aww, yay for Elan! This reminds me why I loved this comic in the first place - Elan.

[DrivinAllNight]

Kewl Komic, loved it, and Elan is so much himself here, :)

[denthor]

When did Roy turn back into a boy?

[Elfanatic]

This reminds me of the movie Last Action Hero, where Slater (Swarzenegger) comes to the 'real' world, punches a carwindow and is suprised that is hand hurts.

I wonder if later one it will look like Elan has life-treathening wound(s) and a doctor says "Is this some kind of joke? This is only a fleshwound!".

[explanetpluto]

:elan: "That would be stealing! Like, in a BAD way!"

As opposed to a good way?

[galdon]

i can see it now...

:haley: Hey, how come there is a perfectly good bag of gold in this broken music shop. oh well, mine now!

[Zanticor]

I just loved the meta plot self critics of the giant in the last panel. I just don’t feel the same way about the repetitiveness. It’s like the red shirts are as inpatient as us to get on with the main action but I always enjoy the side quests as much as the main story.
Or should we see the crankiness of the red shirts as a DM’s voice interrupting a player who starts meta gaming?
Awesome comic anyway.

[Simons Mith]

Roy will probably wake up Rezzed to the sound of beautiful music, worthy as the companion piece for the "Eulogy of Roy", but have the stupidest lyrics consisting of "Verb Verb Verb the Adjective Pronoun".

Gah! You mean Verb, Verb, Verb, Verb the Adjective Noun. It's plain you'll never make it as a bard. Hang your head in shame.

[Porthos]

:elan: "That would be stealing! Like, in a BAD way!"

As opposed to a good way?

Well, yes. :smalltongue: (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0388.html)

[berrew]

...Now that bit where he was all 'Wanna make out?' to Haley was annoying. You'd think a bard would have more of the romantic to him...As an aside: When he said this it was in reference to the first moment they showed mutual attraction in Strip 109, final panel(s) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0109.html)

[banjo1985]

Hehe and here was me thinking the title meantthe return of V, oh well a lute-toting Elan is twice as good :smallbiggrin:

[Lira]

Good comic today, I enjoyed that. :smallsmile: I liked the face on the no-name guards when Elan broke the window; that was pretty funny.
I'm still really anxious to see what happened to V, but I guess we'll just have to keep waiting. THE SUSPENSE IS KILLING ME :'(

[Dire_Weasel]

Hooray! Elan has a new lute! :smallbiggrin:

I think Rich should detail the Dashing Swordsman PRC in the gaming section. It sounds like a fun prestige class. :elan:But if he details its class features, he won't be able to include new ones as needed for the plot.

Also, I can't believe Elan didn't pay for the window he broke, too. A big window like that would be expensive, probably more expensive than the lute.

[Fabio_MP]

oh Elan :)

he is great!

[zimri]

ummm is Hinjo now associating with a known criminal ?

[ref]

Well, this is Elan. Capable of the best and of the worst.

[Demonicbunny]

Yeah. I don't get the people who said "He's acting a bit lawful" in this strip.

Elan is Chaotic Good! Being chaotic means that you don't have much respect for written laws if they're getting in the way of Good, not that you don't have respect for morals!
It's the intention that matters. Just stealing something because you would líke to have it is not good at all.
After all, neither Elans life or the lives of his friends were dependant on Elan stealing that lute.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

ummm is Hinjo now associating with a known criminal ?

Ummm... No. It's common law that you are allowed to take items needed for your own and your family's survival during times of disaster. You CAN steal pants, shirts, coats, boots, shoes, camp stoves and canned food when there is a hurricane or massive flooding or other natural or manmade disasters, since you need those things to survive the disaster. You CANNOT steal jewlery, CDs, booze, luxury items or other similar type items; that is looting which can get you shot. You also cannot take more than you need, which means no backing up in a moving truck and hauling it ALL away.

For anyone else, stealing a lute would be stealing a luxury item, but Elan needs a lute to cast much of his magic, so for Elan it is a necessity. Hinjo is still in the clear, unless he scans Belkar. But for now, Hinjo is opperating on the assumption that Belkar has "learned his lesson, and is attempting to change himself for the better."

[Porthos]

ummm is Hinjo now associating with a known criminal ?

There's nothing in the Paladin Code that covers that, you know. :smalltongue:


Associates: While she may adventure with characters of any good or neutral alignment, a paladin will never knowingly associate with evil characters, nor will she continue an association with someone who consistently offends her moral code. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good.

So unless Haley or Elan go on a crime spree in Hinjo's presence, everything will be fine. :smallsmile:

[Closet_Skeleton]

Anyways, its amazing how these NPC's have lived so long...
Must have something store for them. Maybe they'll last to the end and there will be some joke about them actually living to a ripe old age.

They're Wedge type characters.

[Dusk_Rider]

"Looted the lute". Hee hee. :smallbiggrin:

[Keldin]

My understanding of Chaotic Good is someone who cares for the well being of other people but not for the intricacies of Law or the well being of a social group. That said, while a Lawful Neutral would probably use logic similar to what someone said earlier about the "time of disaster" laws, Elan is Good at heart and so would not use a legal loophole to avoid compensating the shopkeeper. I would say that if he couldn't pay for it at the time he would make a promise to himself to reimburse the shopkeeper at a later date.

On another note, I love the way Durkon keeps blinding people.

[fangthane]

Good comic again, buuuut...

Elan's gonna need a Banjo before Roy gets raised, because he won't want to be thwacked and you know Roy will be really pissed... :smallbiggrin:

[delguidance]

Fun comic. I once had a character in a similar predicament. If the cities fallen then property turned into salvage in his eyes.

[comicadv]

Woot! More of the nameless NPCs!

Join the "two nameless NPCs of #468" fanclub!!

[Belkar's Left Foot]

B-plot meaning B-movie plot, I don't know any examples off hand but it's basically an old very bad special effects and bad plot movie that's popular as hell because its' so bad.

Anyway, back to Elan, he got his lute back! Yay! I wanted to see Banjo say "I don't like this new lute." or something.

[Chronos]

Is anyone else thinking that Dashing Swordsman is a bit front-heavy, for a ten-level prestige class? Elan only has one level in it, and he's already got (at least) Sharp Wit (Cha bonus to attack), Drama Sense, and Glass Immunity. Do higher-level DSs get different abilities, or improvements to these? I can see Drama Sense being based on a d20 + class level roll, sort of like Bardic Knowledge, and maybe high-level Dashing Swordsmen can add their Cha bonus in addition to Str or Dex, or can add it to damage as well as AR.

Then again, maybe it is that front-heavy, or bonus-heavy in general. It's already been implied that it's a bit unbalanced, since it can propel an otherwise average warrior to the Top 20 list of swordsmen.

[WNxArrakis]

Wow! I wonder what Elan had to roll on the epic lute table to get such a prize?

[ImperiousLeader]

Ha. And here I thought, between the title and Durkon in the first panel, that we'd see the resurrection of Roy. Silly me. Lutes are far more important.

[factotum]

and maybe high-level Dashing Swordsmen can add their Cha bonus in addition to Str or Dex, or can add it to damage as well as AR.


I think you have that backwards...a Dashing Swordsman adds their Charisma bonus to their damage rating, not the attack roll (at least, Julio Scoundrel didn't mention anything about it affecting the attack roll when he went through the class features with Elan). It would make sense if it got added on to the attack roll as well with more levels, unless, of course, the BAB progression on DS is much better than Bard anyway. Adding the Str and Dex bonuses as well would be largely pointless, because the whole point of DS is to make up for deficiencies in those areas!

Anyway, nice strip, but I want to see what Haley and Belkar get up to...

[DanShive]

I can loot sketch books. They are a necessity. :haley:

EDIT: Don't know if this has been said, but... SODA! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0389.html)

[Gol_Stoan]

...At least I think it was a South Park reference. Maybe it's just me, but in the third-last panel I can't help hearing Mr. Garrison and Mr. Hat rather than Elan and Mr. Lute.

That's what Banjo is for :smalltongue:

Loot, loot, loot, the un-looted lute!

[Knight_Of_Twilight]

ummm is Hinjo now associating with a known criminal ?

Hardly. He left the money in the store window during an emergency situation. I really doubt Hinjo is going to take issue with that.

[Hushdawg]

Psh.. that seems rather limiting. I can understand specializing in a type of instrument (i.e. string, wind, percussion, etc.) but to focus his entire bardic career on a lute? Such a waste of muse. :smallwink:

it's actually more realistic. How many guitarists can also play other string instruments?

How many Trombone players can play other horns?

Not very many and those who do tend to have mid-range skills on the multiple instruments whereas those who specialize in a specific instrument tend to have a much higher skill level in that.

Also, the lyre is totally different from a lute, it plays in a different key and the function of playing is different. You strum a lute, but you pluck a lyre therefore the playing is completely different from what he's already learned.

[Emperor Ing]

I think so, for Elan's idiocy to leave gold at the window, :smallconfused:
I mean c'mon i really dont think then was a good time.
Funny comic though! :smallbiggrin:

[Omicroncubed]

Good comic... I can't think of anything else, but I always do! :smalleek:

[cheesecake]

Hinjo's junk is still in working order. Lets hope it stays up long enough for them to all catch a ride.

[Ithekro]

This shows that it takes two nameless NPCs to play straight man to Elan rather than just one Roy.

[Emperor Ing]

Hinjo's junk is in sight! Run, or the hobbos will beat them to it, and then, the pleasure will be of the hobbos, and Hinjo will be sad. :smallfrown:

[RaVan]

B-plot meaning B-movie plot, I don't know any examples off hand but it's basically an old very bad special effects and bad plot movie that's popular as hell because its' so bad.

Actually, you're just thinking of B-Movie in general - low budget, poorly written affairs. "B-Plot" refers to a secondary, often less important plot in the same overall story. There can even be more than one. Basically, anytime you would see "Meanwhile . . . "

More b-plot info linky (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/244950/how_to_write_dueling_plot_lines_in.html)

-R

[Snipers_Promise]

New Instriment, and New Info. What could be better. Great Comic Giant. But why darkvison blind someone.

[Holy_Knight]

Gah! You mean Verb, Verb, Verb, Verb the Adjective Noun. It's plain you'll never make it as a bard. Hang your head in shame.

Actually, Elan has used only three verbs on at least one occasion:

here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0006.html)

And at least once he has used two adjectives, rather than just one:

here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0109.html)

The shame is yours. :smalltongue:


As an aside: When he said this it was in reference to the first moment they showed mutual attraction in Strip 109, final panel(s) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0109.html)

Right. That was also brought up in the thread for strip 400, and I think some other places too.

[Smoke_Rulz]

Short and sweet comic about the triumphant return of dumb Elan. And his lute. ;) I expect more annoying songs in the future! Weee!

[Hushdawg]

Actually, Elan has used only three verbs on at least one occasion:

here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0006.html)

And at least once he has used two adjectives, rather than just one:

here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0109.html)

The shame is yours. :smalltongue:


I think he was more referring to the fact that Menarker said "verb, verb, verb the adjective pronoun" instead of "noun"

at least that's what I caught.

heh... Grammar police in interbutt forums...

[PhallicWarrior]

Huzzah! More of Elan's foolishness!

[Holy_Knight]

I think he was more referring to the fact that Menarker said "verb, verb, verb the adjective pronoun" instead of "noun"

at least that's what I caught.

heh... Grammar police in interbutt forums...

Well, he did mean that, but he also referenced the number of verbs, which is what I was responding to.

On another note, I wonder if Elan still has his kazoo?

[Charles Phipps]

It's possible Elan gained a level in Dashing Swordsman.

Clearly, he didn't gain it in bard.

"FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!"

[Hushdawg]

On another note, I wonder if Elan still has his kazoo?

Oh dear God in heaven I hope not; he was playing that thing untrained as it was.

*shudder*

[David Argall]

Aww, poor shop keeper. His store got luted...:smallwink:

Rather it was de-luted.

[dutch508]

YEAH! At least someone got some lute...er...loot...uh...



...you know what I mean...

[erewhon]

Aww, poor shop keeper. His store got luted...:smallwink:

OK. I laughed out loud. :)

[fruityjanitor]

Immune to damage from broken glass. Rock on.

[Crystall_Myr]

it's actually more realistic. How many guitarists can also play other string instruments?

How many Trombone players can play other horns?

Not very many and those who do tend to have mid-range skills on the multiple instruments whereas those who specialize in a specific instrument tend to have a much higher skill level in that.

Also, the lyre is totally different from a lute, it plays in a different key and the function of playing is different. You strum a lute, but you pluck a lyre therefore the playing is completely different from what he's already learned.

For the most part, that's true, except The SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/perform.htm) disagrees with you. :smallwink:

Oh, and the horn example was a bad one. I play the trumpet, and with an hour or so of practice, I could figure how to play a cornet, trombone, tuba, french horn, and plenty of other similar instruments.

[Eldhrin]

Psh.. that seems rather limiting. I can understand specializing in a type of instrument (i.e. string, wind, percussion, etc.) but to focus his entire bardic career on a lute? Such a waste of muse. :smallwink:

Because it's hard to learn one musical instrument well, let alone two or more - especially ones of different kinds. The skill system represents that moderately well, actually. It's not enormously hard to learn the guitar if you can play the lute (or vice versa), but it'd be a tad more difficult to learn to play the viola de gamba or the violin - or the trombone.

But yeah, I think Elan should've taken the harp too. Why? Because the harp's on my long list of instruments I want to learn to play!

[Eldhrin]

For the most part, that's true, except The SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/perform.htm) disagrees with you. :smallwink:

Oh, and the horn example was a bad one. I play the trumpet, and with an hour or so of practice, I could figure how to play a cornet, trombone, tuba, french horn, and plenty of other similar instruments.

Yes but can you play them really well? I play the recorder, and I can play a tin whistle without much trouble, but I'd have to put a great deal of effort into it to play it as well as I can play the recorder. Not as much as when I first learned the recorder, but still quite a lot. Bards, surely, have to be really, really good on their instruments.

Unless their magic covers it up for them.

[laggerific]

That was all so graaaand! It kept me laughing until the last panel.

What's a B-plot?

Does "B" mean mediocre? If so, then I heartily disagree. One of the primary purposes of OotS was and is comedy--- and from that respect, I say it gets an A.

Or did I misinterpret that?

B plots, at least how the simpsons creators describe them, are subplots or secondary plots to the main plot arch for an episode.

[StupidFatHobbit]

Yes but can you play them really well? I play the recorder, and I can play a tin whistle without much trouble, but I'd have to put a great deal of effort into it to play it as well as I can play the recorder.

Yeah, I agree. If you play one instrument, it's incredibly easy to learn to play similar instruments at a beginner/intermediate level - you can often just pick up the new instrument, take a few minutes to figure out where all the notes are, and you're off and playing. Learning to play the new instrument well is another matter.

Harps are very, very different from the lute/guitar family of instruments. I played and taught classical guitar for years before learning the harp, and there is absolutely no similarity or crossover in the physical skills, layout of notes, techniques and general mindset needed. Among the instruments I'm familiar with, I would say the harp is most similar to the piano.

[Atheist_Cleric]

Not a bad comic, I winced at the prospect of more Elan Bard songs though...maybe if Roy comes back as a death knight and attacks the order he'll traumatise Elan by snapping the lute in half.

BWAHAHAHAAHAHAAA!

[StupidFatHobbit]

Maybe the shop owner isn't gone. Maybe he's Haydn.

[Milandros]

Maybe the shop owner isn't gone. Maybe he's Haydn.

Or perhaps he's gone Chopin?

[StupidFatHobbit]

Or perhaps he's gone Chopin?

Anyway, he'll be Bach.

Edit: If he went Chopin, I hope he remembered his Liszt.

[SteveMB]

Anyway, he'll be Bach.

Edit: If he went Chopin, I hope he remembered his Liszt.

Or he went to find out what the treble was, direct from the city's lieder or at least his staff.

[Pyro]

Awww I wanted more kazoo music.

[Heineken]

Loved the panel where Elan presses his face to the window.
That looks like a child saying: "Mommy, can I have that lute?"

:smallbiggrin:

[16oz]

Loved the darkvision part... I wonder if they were somehow using it as the light source for the tunnel travel, since no torch or lanterns are visable when they enter or are leaving the tunnel. And more Redshirt dialouge! Sadly, that whole destroyed city has the feeling and look of many of the planets Kirk and crew beamed down to for the start of an episode. Live you two, LIVE!!!

"Save, save, save, save the nameless NPCs from death!"

[StupidFatHobbit]

direct from the city's lieder

Ok, the rest were good too, but that one was awesome. I salute you sir. You really have a Handel on this stuff.

[Rollin]

Or he went to find out what the treble was, direct from the city's lieder or at least his staff.
They're busy putting out de Falla, so he won't hear anything but Bartok.

[Bunyip]

When did Roy turn back into a boy?

When the party was at the inn and were being attacked by the assassin, Roy disguised himself as a woman by putting on a belt of gender reversal. Later Durkin had to cast remove curse to turn him back into a boy. "Roy has boobies."

:roach: contaminate, contaminate.

[StupidFatHobbit]

They're busy putting out de Falla, so he won't hear anything but Bartok.

You guys are so sharp, it isn't natural.

I hope Elan won't fret or feel gutted about the way he got his new instrument. He picked it well.

[Chronos]

Oh, and the horn example was a bad one. I play the trumpet, and with an hour or so of practice, I could figure how to play a cornet, trombone, tuba, french horn, and plenty of other similar instruments.Right, I was going to say the same thing. I played tuba back in high school and college, and I was the only tuba player I know who didn't start on some other instrument and get switched by the director. Someone who already plays one brass instrument and is suddenly switched to another will play a heck of a lot better than someone who doesn't know any instrument, or an unrelated one. On the other hand, "wind instruments", as in the D&D rules, is too broad a category, since there's almost nothing that carries over to brass instruments from, say, a flute (measured breathing, and that's about it, aside from the things all musicians should know).

[DSCrankshaw]

And more Redshirt dialog! Sadly, that whole destroyed city has the feeling and look of many of the planets Kirk and crew beamed down to for the start of an episode. Live you two, LIVE!!!

"Save, save, save, save the nameless NPCs from death!"
Fortunately, they're with Elan. He may not be the brightest torch in the dungeon, but he's the one character most likely to realize that he can increase the no-names' chances of survival by at least 1000% just by asking them what their names are.

[Mystitat]

I especially love the little detail of the shape of Elan's mouth and the mark on his cheek to show that he has his face pressed up against the glass. Elan is totally the kind of person who would do that. :smallbiggrin:

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Did you see the size of the money bag Elan left for the shop owner?!?! Good Lord! That must be quite a lute!

Maybe it's a: 1969 Fender Stratocaster, original pick-ups, maple neck, strung upside down for a left-handed motherBEEPing genius, Jimi Hendrix.

So, how much does a normal lute go for in D&D, and how many bonuses to performance does the one Elan just yoinked give him?

I know this is over in Class and Level Geekery, but who has what magic items?

Roy: +5 undead bane sword, +20 ring of jumping(originally Belkars), a bag of tricks, potion of delay poison, potion of shillelagh oil, Celia's Talesman.

Elan: +3 keen rapier, Banjo (lesser diety), Masterwork Lute, Kazoo

Belkar: Nothing... Seriously, no one has shown that his daggers are magically enhanced, so... The Eye of Fear and Flame has been shattered, and his magic ring is with Roy.

Haley: 8 bags of holding, and that seems to be it.

Durkon: Amulet of Natural Armor, Magic hammer (maybe not, but he uses it as a spell focus), Holy Symbol of Thor

Vaarsuvius: Ring of wizardry. Spell books and scrolls, Headband of Intellect +4 (maybe)

So, right now, Elan and Roy are the heavy hitters in the magic weapon department. Wierd. I never thought "Elan" and "heavy-hitter" would ever end up in the same sentence.

[Dwarkanath]

For the most part, that's true, except The SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/perform.htm) disagrees with you. :smallwink:

Oh, and the horn example was a bad one. I play the trumpet, and with an hour or so of practice, I could figure how to play a cornet, trombone, tuba, french horn, and plenty of other similar instruments.Yeah, having actually switched between some of those instruments I have to say it's not really that difficult at all. Except the trombone. Playing a trombone takes a whole different skill set than a valved horn, however (and if you've got short arms, getting to position 7 is a pain....)

[Miraqariftsky]

A "B-plot" is the plot that is secondary to the main plot. As in, the main plot (the "A-plot") is the Gates, Xykon, etc. The B-plots are the subplots that come up and then are resolved, like Haley's voice, Belkar's Mark of Justice, Durkon's fling with Hilgya, etc.


Thank you. I was under the impression that such were called subplots. Oh well. Times change, aye?

[Hushdawg]

For the most part, that's true, except The SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/perform.htm) disagrees with you. :smallwink:

Oh, and the horn example was a bad one. I play the trumpet, and with an hour or so of practice, I could figure how to play a cornet, trombone, tuba, french horn, and plenty of other similar instruments.

Within an hour of practice you could switch from a trumpet to performing on a trombone?

really?

I call bullplop on that. The trombone isn't even in the same Clef as the trumpet.

Trumpet to cornet I can buy, they are very similar. All the others are in totally different keys and the performance is totally different.

I'm sure you could make sounds on them; but actually playing them well? highly doubt it. I played Trombone for seven years and then picked up the Tuba, it took over a month of practice to get to anywhere near a performance level with it.

[the_tick_rules]

immune to glass damage, awesome. Should we rejoyce or lament elan has a new lute?

[Heainnailo]

Within an hour of practice you could switch from a trumpet to performing on a trombone?

really?

I call bullplop on that. The trombone isn't even in the same Clef as the trumpet.

Trumpet to cornet I can buy, they are very similar. All the others are in totally different keys and the performance is totally different.

I'm sure you could make sounds on them; but actually playing them well? highly doubt it. I played Trombone for seven years and then picked up the Tuba, it took over a month of practice to get to anywhere near a performance level with it.

Well, I started playing trumpet in 6th grade, but in 10th got switched to the baritone horn. After a couple hours of studying notes and fingerings in bass clef, I could play the baritone almost as good as I played trumpet, and now I'm better on baritone than trumpet.

[Ridureyu]

Did you see the size of the money bag Elan left for the shop owner?!?! Good Lord! That must be quite a lute!

Maybe it's a: 1969 Fender Stratocaster, original pick-ups, maple neck, strung upside down for a left-handed motherBEEPing genius, Jimi Hendrix.



You, sir, WIN.

[the_tick_rules]

or maybe they're copper pieces.

[Bilgore]

Durkon's darkvision: :smallbiggrin:
thousands of hobbos between the group and their destination: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:
Elan getting a new lute: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:
Nameless NPCs who don't realize the implications
of the previous two points taken together: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:

[Angel in Black]

Durkon's darkvision: :smallbiggrin:
thousands of hobbos between the group and their destination: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:
Elan getting a new lute: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:
Nameless NPCs who don't realize the implications
of the previous two points taken together: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:

Oh. Oh crap. I hadn't thought of that either. This could be very bad- or simply very hilarious. Hopefully the second. Or Durkon/Hinjo will tell him that playing wouldn't be a good idea. Who knows.

(Looking at the quote preview text, the smiley text "smallbiggrin" is messing with my mind- oh the oxymoronity!)

[Dr'uun Unnh]

I hope that Hinjo and Durkon haven't gotten too far ahead while Elan got his lute. If they do get separated, it probably doesn't bode well for the two guards.

The panel where Elan presses his face to the window and the other where he "converses" with "Mr. Lute" indicate to me that Elan is still Elan. This probably doesn't bode well for the sanity of the two guards.

[Albion]

I did read this while listening to The Doors - The End and drinking whisky with my coffee, but I found it absolutely marvellous all the same. Well I mean to say, I'd find it that way, great, normally too. Savvy? Well. That's the best I can do right now. PLUS I love Elan, which I have seldom done before, so yay.

[Ancalagon]

Yeah, I don't see Elan as Chaotic Good at all. The others at least fit their alignment. His don't.

You are wrong and could not be wronger. Elans Align does totally fit. Alignment is not a rules, carved in stone. Elan is totally choatic (he does not plan, he does not care, he does not think about laws) and also generally good (that is why he does not want to steal and he *really* wants to do the right thing). That makes him totally CG.

If you think the align of everyone else 1otally, 100% fits, you should take a look at Roy, I bet you can find examples where you could argue "Ah, not THAT lawful".

[TerraNova]

Fortunately, they're with Elan. He may not be the brightest torch in the dungeon, but he's the one character most likely to realize that he can increase the no-names' chances of survival by at least 1000% just by asking them what their names are.

That really depends. The "Deluxe Redshirt" gets a name to make clear that this is more than some throwaway goon before being killed off.

[Dread]

Rich has truly mastered the art of meta-humor. :)

[Elderac]

But if he details its class features, he won't be able to include new ones as needed for the plot.

Also, I can't believe Elan didn't pay for the window he broke, too. A big window like that would be expensive, probably more expensive than the lute.

After thinking about it, Dire, I have to agree that if Rich detailed it, he couldn't surprise us with humorous new features of the class.

With regards to the window, that was a heft bag of gold he left in the window. At first read, I didn't see where he put any coins in, but when I reread it today, I saw a bag with a $ on it in the left most panel of the bottom row. (Sorry. I didn't count the panels before writing the post.)

[Woof]

Am I the only one who's slightly disturbed by the fact that no one's seem to give a small rodent's backside about V's whereabouts? Haley's aware of the fact that V is MIA, but everyone is like "Oh well, let's just try to get out of here". Heck, they care more about Roy's rotting carcass than V. :smallconfused:

[factotum]

Am I the only one who's slightly disturbed by the fact that no one's seem to give a small rodent's backside about V's whereabouts?

Well, exactly what can they do about it? V could be anywhere, and your search area is a city containing 20,000 hobgoblins--they just haven't the time or the manpower to find him. As Haley said in an earlier comic, tomorrow Durkon can prepare a Sending spell so they can get in touch with V and at least find out where he is!

[Vargtass]

Well, exactly what can they do about it? V could be anywhere, and your search area is a city containing 20,000 hobgoblins--they just haven't the time or the manpower to find him. As Haley said in an earlier comic, tomorrow Durkon can prepare a Sending spell so they can get in touch with V and at least find out where he is!

I think the point is that the rest of the order have no way of knowing whether V is dead or alive. If dead, V can't get back to the order selfhandedly, much like Roy, and should get the same kind of attention.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

I think:

Therefore, I am.

I've always wanted to say that.

[danneloftyr]

Considering their involvement in the most recent strip the "red shirts" seems to be borderline PCs.......love it if they go to the next gate in place of Hinjo

[Chronos]

My guess is that the redshirts depart peacefully from the main storyline within 10 strips or so, and then, when we least expect them, show up again as character-shielded adventurers to do something important.

[Rufio]

Hehe... those two NPC's are quite funny. I'm wondering if we will be able to see them some more? And :elan: is bad at being bad... something that usually doesn't happen with bards... but then again, this IS Elan we're talking about. Oh, and I like the rational Giant came up with for why Elan wasn't hurt by the glass. Dramatic Entrences... :smile:.

[Bilgore]

That certainly looked like a hefty bag of gold, but we don't really know what's in it.

I mean, Azure city is on the seashore--who wouldn't expect Elan to have a hefty collection of seashells? (OK, I don't see him using them to pay for anything, but he might keep them in the same bag as his coins, plus he'd willingly sacrifice them if it helped him get a new lute.)

[factotum]

Even Elan is not so stupid as to believe that a random bunch of seashells count as payment for anything.

[Fishybugs]

You know....I've read the comic a few times through and I don't get why everyone is assuming it's a masterwork lute. Am I missing something?

Just because of the size of the bag? Maybe in the tradition of the children he looks like in this strip he broke his piggybank open and paid for it in copper pieces.....

For the lack of information on it, it could be a Hasbro lute for all I can tell.

[DSCrankshaw]

Well, the lute does have a price tag on it, so I kind of assumed that Elan payed about what it said (although maybe not taking the time to count out the coins precisely).

True, it doesn't necessarily have to be masterwork. On the other hand, it could even be magic.

And TerraNova, I know giving them names won't guarantee their survival. Figuring the average no-name survival chance is 5%, finding out their names only raises it to 55%. No guarantee, but a significant gain nevertheless.

[Velazquez]

I think that the lute will play its role at Roy's resurrection?:smallconfused:

[Burnsy]

I'm hoping that the redshirts will become central characters after this Azure City incident, and maybe even join the Order of the Stick! Who knows, probably not. But I hope.

[DSCrankshaw]

I'm hoping that the redshirts will become central characters after this Azure City incident, and maybe even join the Order of the Stick! Who knows, probably not. But I hope.
I doubt that's likely. But they could end up being significant minor characters, maybe not quite Hinjo or Shojo level, but certainly more important than the dirt farmers.

[David Argall]

If they are lucky, our redshirts are going to become paladins as the order has a number of openings. However, there is little reason to expect them to leave town. They are just minor NPC and we can't begin to follow all of them. So when the party leaves town for the next gate, they will be staying here to rebuild the town.

[Shatteredtower]

He couldn't take the harp since bard's specialize in a certain type of music style (voice, instrument, etc) and then a specific type of instrument.The first part is correct, but not the second. By the rules, a bard with ranks in Perform (string) can manage the harp or lute with equal ease. This has already been cited, but it's worth considering why this isn't a problem by the rules.

First, most players only ever opt for one instrument. There are optional rules in one of the splat books to suggest how different instruments provide different advantages, but most people just go for that lute, harp, flute, or bongo and stick with it.

Second, even for those who don't, how is it any different than the fact that your bard is equally good with a sickle, spear, sling, or longsword? How is it different from the fact that a wizard taking a level of fighter suddenly knows how to use a heavy flail, trident, longbow, or one of several polearms equally well?


He couldn't put any new points into harp since he is now putting them into his dashing swordsmen class.Don't see why not. There's a difference between class features and class skills. I'd be quite surprised if Perform wasn't on the class skill list for dashing swordsman, but even if it wasn't, it just means Elan has to spend twice as many skill points to max out his Perform modifier.

[DSCrankshaw]

Don't see why not. There's a difference between class features and class skills. I'd be quite surprised if Perform wasn't on the class skill list for dashing swordsman, but even if it wasn't, it just means Elan has to spend twice as many skill points to max out his Perform modifier.
Well, I can definitely see Perform on the Dashing Swordsman's skill list, but I'm not sure it would be all perform, or just a limited number. Definitely act, probably oratory, maybe dance (to impress the ladies, of course). I'm not so sure about string... but then, maybe it'd be easier to just include them all.

Of course, don't most 3.5 bards take sing, so they have their hands free?

[Shatteredtower]

Of course, don't most 3.5 bards take sing, so they have their hands free?It's been my experience that many bards take sing and string, the former for the reasons you cited, and the latter because masterwork instruments can boost your Perform checks just a little bit further (especially if your DM will let you magically enhance them).

Then again, I've known a few bards that preferred oratory to singing. Some find it easier to demonstrate at the table, for one thing.

As we saw at the beginning of the battle, though, Elan didn't put many (if any) ranks into Perform (oratory). :smallwink:

Edit: I just wanted to add that I really like that second panel. Hinjo and Durkon give me the impression of looking at two actors posing in front of a blue screen in the studio, with us seein the image added to the final product. I think it's a nice touch.

[ishnar]

You know....I've read the comic a few times through and I don't get why everyone is assuming it's a masterwork lute. Am I missing something?

Just because of the size of the bag? Maybe in the tradition of the children he looks like in this strip he broke his piggybank open and paid for it in copper pieces.....

For the lack of information on it, it could be a Hasbro lute for all I can tell.

Well, it is normal for the best products to be displayed in a show window.

[dfpiii]

It might be a masterwork lute - presumably Elan would know one on sight, which might be why he was so face-stuck-to-the-window impressed.

Of course the large bag (of gold) might just be because 1) Elan is an idiot, 2) He is also paying for the damage done to the window, 3) He doesn't have time to count out the correct change (see 1).

[Maulem]

At the minimum, the lute is enchanted because, IT TALKS! DUH! :smallbiggrin:

[Emperor Ing]

all speculation points to that Hinjo joins the Order, hes Lawful Good, and an excellent swordsman. He could fill the role as roy quite nicely.

[Roderick_BR]

It's amusing that even the nameless NPCs get annoyed with Elan sometimes :smallbiggrin:

[chibibar]

muhahahhhahhahahaha I love it. (I didn't read it until Monday) no glass damage... comes in handy.

[berrew]

all speculation points to that Hinjo joins the Order, hes Lawful Good, and an excellent swordsman. He could fill the role as roy quite nicely.Though there are authors like George R. R. Martin who regularly kill off all their primary protagonists, OoTS has been touted as "Roy's journey" pretty much from the get-go - and structurally, the OoTS doesn't really need 2 straight men.

[Triggerhappy938]

And so, Elan's path down the road of corruption and evil continues.

[Alfryd]

New comic is up.

Meh... I've seen better. But pretty good. Especially the broken glass part. Oh. And the darkvision part.
I rather liked it, towards the end, at least.


I understand the "Good", but the towns on FIRE! I'm pretty sure Music Store guy expected his shop to be looted by a passing bard who was without an instrument.
Yeah, but that's still a more or less evil thing to do. It's not quite a case of greater-or-lesser evil here, Elan just wants his Lute. ('Course, he should pay for the window too, in the event it matters.)
Then again, it's likely the hobgoblins would loot the place regardless once they get there, in which case it would be a Lawful decision, providing Elan thought ahead that far...
Yeah, ...I'm gonna stop there.

Yeah, I don't see Elan as Chaotic Good at all. The others at least fit their alignment.
Elan does have one or two Lawful qualities- honesty and a few rudimentary ethical restrictions- but he's highly unpredictable, reckless and willing to experiment, up to and including the point of being an active hazard to himself and others. On balance, he's still quite Chaotic.


"Our long luteless nightmare is over!"
Yes indeed. We wept in a huddled foetal ball at night, longing for lutes.

Plus, the redshirts are growing on me...
I would say those NPCs could stand a little discipline, but under the circumstances of imminent lute exposure I'll say they've suffered enough.

...worthy as the companion piece for the "Eulogy of Roy".
Oh, Shakespeare by Elan's standards. These are however Elan's standards.

I've always wanted to say that.
Have a cookie.
*gives cookie*


You CANNOT steal jewlery, CDs, booze, luxury items or other similar type items; that is looting which can get you shot.
By the theory it's morally legitimate to kill people for making you slightly poorer, yes.

You also cannot take more than you need, which means no backing up in a moving truck and hauling it ALL away.
Unless, of course, it's an otherwise renewable natural resource, in which case, plunder your weasely black guts out.


Immune to damage from broken glass. Rock on.
Consult the Standard Reference. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29882)

Maybe he's Haydn.

Or perhaps he's gone Chopin?

Anyway, he'll be Bach.
If he went Chopin, I hope he remembered his Liszt.
You are bad, bad men. ...continue.

[Baalzebub]

Damn, :elan: is too much of a CG character. Go Elan!

[AyuVince]

Borrow, borrow, borrow, borrow the important bard equipment!

Now I really want to see Elan playing a natural 20 on his lute while fighting his enemies. He could learn some really combat-oriented skald songs.

[Tobrian]

Yeah, but that's still a more or less evil thing to do. It's not quite a case of greater-or-lesser evil here, Elan just wants his Lute. ('Course, he should pay for the window too, in the event it matters.)(snip)

Criminal acts are not evil under D&D rules, merely chaotic. (I know it does not makes sense, there are plenty of LE or NE villains and mastercriminals, but WotC put "criminal" squarely in the chaotic part of alignment, that's why classes such as Gray Guard who hunt heretics and punish criminals and groups like the Mercykillers get "Detect Chaos" as power.)

[David Argall]

all speculation points to that Hinjo joins the Order, hes Lawful Good, and an excellent swordsman. He could fill the role as roy quite nicely.

Nope. 1.Hinjo is tied to the city. There is just no reason for him leaving. [excuses, yes, but not reasons] 2. He has no ties to the Order, and would not be able to accept Belkar for any substantial period. 3. Roy is clearly only temporarily dead. See the death scene of Miko to see what would have happened if Roy were being written out of the story. 4. As has been noted, this is Roy's story. Removing him just leaves too much gap. 5. ... 6... 7.....

[archer]

I know that everyone is really set on Elan having a lute but it looks like a banjo to me. And face it: banjos are funnier.

[Ithekro]

But then he's have two banjos...and who can play two banjos at once?

:smallsmile:

[Deuce]

But then he's have two banjos...and who can play two banjos at once?

:smallsmile:

A Bard that took a few levels of Ranger?

(Or maybe a Thri-Kreen Bard?)

[evileeyore]

I know that everyone is really set on Elan having a lute but it looks like a banjo to me. And face it: banjos are funnier.I'm sure Elan knows the difference in the instruments at a glance.


Side note:

Why I read this comic, the art:

http://www.geocities.com/evileeyore/lovelost.gif

You can see the child like wonderment in his face. Just like a kid in a Christmas Store window. The Giant has mastered the minimalist form.

[Alfryd]

Criminal acts are not evil under D&D rules, merely chaotic.
Yes, but selfishness is evil under D&D rules. It all depends on context.


See the death scene of Miko to see what would have happened if Roy were being written out of the story.
Miko is not being written out of the story. Consult Paladin Blues. At best there is a slim chance she won't be raised before the dust has settled plotwise.

[jmucchiello]

I'm sure Elan knows the difference in the instruments at a glance.
http://www.geocities.com/evileeyore/lovelost.gifThat is certainly a lute next to the lyre. A banjo would have a drum head for the body. You can really have a sound hole in a drum head.

[berrew]

That is certainly a lute next to the lyre. A banjo would have a drum head for the body. You can really have cannot have a sound hole in a drum head. Corrected that for you, since I am sure it is what you meant.

See this link (http://www.carolenoakes.co.uk/albums/plucked%20strings/index.htm) for examples of banjoes (and a lute, actually). You can clearly see the drum head of which jmucchiello speaks.

[Fillbert]

Now that bit where he was all 'Wanna make out?' to Haley was annoying. You'd think a bard would have more of the romantic to him.

But a good entertainer performs for the audience at hand. Being more romantic, even though being more bard-like, wouldn't of flown well with Haley.

[malakim2099]

Yes, but selfishness is evil under D&D rules. It all depends on context.

Yeah, but Elan wasn't being selfish. He's a far more effective bard (and asset to the party) WITH a favored musical instrument than he is without it.

Besides, he paid for it, what more do you want out of the CG goof? :smalltongue:

[Morty]

Miko is not being written out of the story. Consult Paladin Blues. At best there is a slim chance she won't be raised before the dust has settled plotwise.

Man, I hope you're wrong... boards are such a quiet place without her

[Alfryd]

Yeah, but Elan wasn't being selfish.
Never said he was.

Man, I hope you're wrong... boards are such a quiet place without her.
Pfft. Where's your sense of gleeful revelry in senesless violence?