Good Cyberpunk systems?

[SilverLeaf167]

Not an urgent issue, but decided to ask while it's on my mind anyway.

What systems would you recommend for a Cyberpunk game? I understand that Shadowrun is the usual staple and probably fits most of my criteria, but I'm not interested in using its fantasy aspects (like magic and non-humans) and I'm not sure it'd be such a good choice if I had to strip away so much of it. Not entirely against it, though.

Things I'd appreciate the system doing well (some of these are probably pretty obvious for Cyberpunk):
Cybernetics, both simple prosthetics and more interesting stuff
Hacking etc., not necessarily a full "cyberspace" but perhaps something closer to Watch_Dogs
Relatively dangerous but not too punishing combat, should be an option but a risky one
Some kind of robots, drones etc.
Mostly kinetic weaponry but also the choice of melee or more futuristic technology (like lasers etc.)
Emphasis on planning, tactics and creative use of equipment
Plenty of variety in character creation, skills etc.

With this in mind, would it be better to just use Shadowrun without the fantastic elements or can you think of a better option?

[Mutazoia]

Um....have you tried Cyberpunk 2020? or GURPS Cyberpunk?

[SilverLeaf167]

Haven't really tried anything yet. I'm just looking for suggestions on what I should try.

Both of those look promising. I've heard good things about GURPS, but also that it can be a little complicated, though I think my players could handle it. Might be a good system to learn, being so supposedly versatile and everything.
It seems there's also a third edition of Cyberpunk 2020, named Cyberpunk V3.0. Is there any particular reason not to use that instead? Is 2020 better somehow?

[Florian]

Using the Eclipse Phase rules might be the most promising thing to do.

[Ceiling_Squid]

Haven't really tried anything yet. I'm just looking for suggestions on what I should try.

Both of those look promising. I've heard good things about GURPS, but also that it can be a little complicated, though I think my players could handle it. Might be a good system to learn, being so supposedly versatile and everything.
It seems there's also a third edition of Cyberpunk 2020, named Cyberpunk V3.0. Is there any particular reason not to use that instead? Is 2020 better somehow?

Oh god, someone brought up Cyberpunk v3.0!! Red alert!!

*CUE KLAXONS*

Yeah, uh, v3.0 is a near-universally reviled edition. It loses the original spirit of cyberpunk and replaces it with rather shoddy posthumanism and terrible "art". The book is just physically ugly.

Here's a decent review: https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/14/14681.phtml

It's also rather telling that, when R.Talsorian did a new print run a couple years ago, they reprinted 2020 instead of v3.0. The upcoming videogame from CD Projekt, Cyberpunk 2077, is also far more in-line with 2020's style and setting.

v3.0 is mostly ignored nowadays. If you want an RPG that focuses on transhumanism, Eclipse phase is a better choice.

That in mind, I'm hesitant to call Eclipse Phase true "cyberpunk". It is very post-cyberpunk, with humanity being hardly recognizeable anymore, having mostly transcended conventional mortality.

Cyberpunk 2020 is also very old-school, 80s-style cyberpunk. Think Blade Runner and the like, the sort of cyberpunk that was invented before the impact of the internet was fully accounted for. Very noir, lots of bulky cybernetics, hackers, and punk fashion.

It's worth looking into if you want some of that rain-slick, evil corporations vs rebels feel, and can stomach a dated, somewhat-crunchy 90s RPG system. Also, don't expect to replace your entire body with cyborg parts, unless you want to risk becoming psychotic. Losing one's humanity is a major theme and danger in the 2020 setting.

If your idea of cyberpunk is more shiny and transhuman, you may want to look elsewhere. 2020 is fairly oldschool in its sensibilities.

[Madcrafter]

Haven't really tried anything yet. I'm just looking for suggestions on what I should try.

Both of those look promising. I've heard good things about GURPS, but also that it can be a little complicated, though I think my players could handle it. Might be a good system to learn, being so supposedly versatile and everything.I just started a "Shadowrun" game (like you, without magic or metahumans) using GURPS just this week. It can actually be fairly simple, and is easily amenable to "roll and shout" style if you don't want to look up rules in the moment. None of my players have played it before and I have only read through the books and things so character creation took a while, but once things are rolling its pretty streamlined. That said, there are rules for everything if you want them, and you can slowly build up.

Only criticism of it would be that there isn't built-in support for extensive and complicated hacking like you see in Shadowrun. I'm working on brewing something up for the full VR experience, but for the moment just getting by with boring success rolls. If you don't get a decker though then this might not be an issue at all.

[2D8HP]

What systems would you recommend for a Cyberpunk game? I understand that Shadowrun is the usual staple and probably fits most of my criteria, but I'm not interested in using its fantasy aspects (like magic and non-humans) and I'm not sure it'd be such a good choice if I had to strip away so much of it. Not entirely against it, though.

With this in mind, would it be better to just use Shadowrun without the fantastic elements or can you think of a better option?
"Back in the day" I played Cyberpunk (the original "Dark Future of 2013" edition), Cyberpunk "2020", and Shadowrun (probably 1e). I don't recall that any of the fantasy elements came into play, but of the three, I had the most fun with Shadowrun.
These days however, when I want to role-play a "Cyberpunk" setting that has:
MegaCorporations,
Computer Hackers,
Gun wielding gangsters, and
People with prosthetic limbs,
I get in my car and drive to work.
Maybe it's different where you live, but isn't real life already "cyberpunk" enough?

[Denomar]

D20 modern isn't bad. Without enough practice Mutants and Masterminds can emulate pretty much anything and everything. You could also probably get away with re skinning Dark Heresy.

Cyberpunk 2020 is probably the most generic cyberpunk rpg that doesn't include magipunk or genre specific weirdness.

If you are looking to go a bit more obscure than perhaps try Ex Machina or Tokyo NOVA.

As for me. I love the post modern magical melting pot that is Shadowrun, although its rules are a little dense for my true liking.

[SilverLeaf167]

These days however, when I want to role-play a "Cyberpunk" setting that has:
MegaCorporations,
Computer Hackers,
Gun wielding gangsters, and
People with prosthetic limbs,
I get in my car and drive to work.
Maybe it's different where you live, but isn't real life already "cyberpunk" enough?

Well, I personally have never gotten to hack into a megacorporation while fighting gangsters by wielding a gun inside my prosthetic limb. :smallamused: Being an NPC just isn't the same, y'know?

[goto124]

Being an NPC just isn't the same, y'know?

http://blog.jonolan.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/NPC.png

[Mutazoia]

Only criticism of it would be that there isn't built-in support for extensive and complicated hacking like you see in Shadowrun. I'm working on brewing something up for the full VR experience, but for the moment just getting by with boring success rolls. If you don't get a decker though then this might not be an issue at all.

The problem with Shadowrun's "full VR experience" hacking, was always that it took your decker out on a mini adventure, and left the rest of the players sitting around doing nothing for however long the hack took. The whole cyberspace run was suppose to take only seconds in real time, but seem like minutes, or even hours inside the system. In the end, we always just tossed the whole VR thing, unless the decker was out on a solo run (scouting or what ever) and the rest of the characters were out doing their own thing (shopping for new gear/cyberwear/whatever). When the actual run was taking place we just condensed things down to skill rolls to keep from splitting the party.

[Actana]

Oh god, someone brought up Cyberpunk v3.0!! Red alert!!

*CUE KLAXONS*

<snipping for length>

While I absolutely 110% agree with you on the setting (it is total garbage that cannot be called cyberpunk on its own) and ignoring the new cybertech that come along with it, I'd say that the mechanical ruleset of V.3 is a lot better than 2020. It's streamlined, balanced a bit better and moves away from the quasi-class/role styled character creation for a more universal point buy system which works so much better (so if you want to win in combat you can play someone other than a Solo). If I were to run any of the CP20XX games, I'd run V.3 with the setting of 2020, replacing the new cybertech with the old's rules, doing what adjustments are needed at the time. The material printed for 2020 is still fairly compatible so using old sourcebooks for V.3 shouldn't be a huge problem either. I also have a particular fondness for the Blackhand's Street Weapons book, as it's basically just a shopping list for all sorts of weapons and firearms ranging from katanas to six barreled automatic shotguns to rocket powered sledges.


I have, on occasion, mused about using Fate Core for a cyberpunk game, applying Jadepunk's core mechanics for stunts and skills into a cyberpunk setting. It'd work quite neatly, though then again, Fate does for most genres (as long as you accept Fate's focus on the characters). While Jadepunk isn't exactly cyberpunk itself, the style certainly works, as it's a short bridge to cross from gritty wuxia steampunk to gritty cyberpunk.

[Madcrafter]

The problem with Shadowrun's "full VR experience" hacking, was always that it took your decker out on a mini adventure, and left the rest of the players sitting around doing nothing for however long the hack took. The whole cyberspace run was suppose to take only seconds in real time, but seem like minutes, or even hours inside the system. In the end, we always just tossed the whole VR thing, unless the decker was out on a solo run (scouting or what ever) and the rest of the characters were out doing their own thing (shopping for new gear/cyberwear/whatever). When the actual run was taking place we just condensed things down to skill rolls to keep from splitting the party.

So I've heard. Looking at the Shadowrun rules though it seems like it could just be a few skill rolls and is meant to be that much more than a little mini-adventure.

Actually SR as a whole might be a fine system for OP, just ignore the parts you don't want.

[Timeras]

Looking at the Shadowrun rules though it seems like it could just be a few skill rolls and is meant to be that much more than a little mini-adventure.
That is correct and it has been true since 3rd edition, although 3rd, 4th and 5th edition have very different maxtrix rules.

[Liodre]

I can recommend a look into Traveller.

Disclaimner: I'm honestly not very familiar with the previous editions but the last, and new, Mongoose Traveller has elements that be focused on to make it more Cyberpunk.

[goto124]

The problem with Shadowrun's "full VR experience" hacking, was always that it took your decker out on a mini adventure, and left the rest of the players sitting around doing nothing for however long the hack took. The whole cyberspace run was suppose to take only seconds in real time, but seem like minutes, or even hours inside the system. In the end, we always just tossed the whole VR thing, unless the decker was out on a solo run (scouting or what ever) and the rest of the characters were out doing their own thing (shopping for new gear/cyberwear/whatever). When the actual run was taking place we just condensed things down to skill rolls to keep from splitting the party.

I wonder if an all-decker party works...

[Mutazoia]

I wonder if an all-decker party works...

Considering that you (almost always) have to jack into a system from inside the building it's housed in, I doubt it very seriously. An all-decker party wouldn't have the skill set to survive for more than a minute or two on a run.

[SilverLeaf167]

Well, currently it seems like a toss-up between GURPS and adapted Shadowrun. The setting itself will be pretty much completely custom, though.

While hacking should definitely be prominent, I'm not all that fond of Shadowrun's full-VR system (both conceptually and thanks to the gameplay issues mentioned here). I'm more interested in a combination of "traditional" hacking - using the internet or just accessing a terminal physically - and the Watch_Dogs style of jacking remotely into all sorts of systems, from phones to traffic lights. I was actually going to use the term "industrial internet" to describe this, but upon Googling it seems to be a mainly Finnish-coined term (the game would likely be set in Finland anyway), though you can still get English sources if you look.

I doubt this will be too hard to homebrew. However, if anyone else has time to kill, I'm up for a little brainstorming, or at least just writing down my ideas. As a disclaimer, this setting is mostly hypothetical for now.

Basically, I want to set the game in a "relatively realistic" near future (Cyberpunk more in technology than in tone), probably something like the 2030's or something. The internet still exists, and is relatively similar to today's, though the seedy underside (with many nicknames, including "infranet", "deepweb" etc.) will also feature quite prominently. In addition, almost everything from garbage bins (an actual real-life example) to city lights is connected to a series of networks that are mostly separate ("ultranet"), but relatively easy for a skilled and well-equipped hacker to break into and access the rest as well.
Most interfaces are still physical, with a mouse and keyboard and everything, with eye tracking and voice recognition added on.
"Nerve links" are relatively common and very safe, allowing one-way signaling from the brain to all sorts of devices. Basically a more functional version of similar systems we have today. Placed behind the ear, they allow hands-free access to anything from your TV to your computer. A sophisticated remote, really. Individual items may contain their own nerve links as well, like watches, VR headsets or smart guns. Popular with everyone from the middle-class up who's willing to adopt new tech.
"Skull links" are two-way nerve links that both send and receive data. With a little more wetware, they basically give you an invisible but fully-functional computer terminal inside your head. You can access all three nets anywhere, but without proper protection you run a risk of getting your own head hacked. Mostly associated with hardcore hackers, but popular with high-class businessmen etc. as well. May even include physical ports for cables and more speed.
I'm trying to expand upon these two concepts, both of which have three basic "tiers" at the moment (infra-inter-ultra, physical-nerve-skull). Any and all suggestions (or just constructive questions) are welcome. Let's keep it relatively system-agnostic for now, since I haven't chosen between GURPS and Shadowrun yet, though you can obviously try to tell me with game would work better for this. :smalltongue: