Clarification on a magical item

[SedraxisXNG]

Hey there playground. I've been getting into an argument with my Dm, so i figured I'd come here and see what you guys can give me. Do the gauntlets of heartfelt blows apply just to melee touch attacks, or any touch attacks ? Because the description is kind of misleading. Thanks for your help

[Morof Stonehands]

"...The wearer's melee attacks cause extra points of fire damage equal to his Charisma bonus (minimum +1). This bonus damage also applies to touch attacks. ..."

Seems pretty clear, any melee attack you make will get the bonus damage. Also any attack you make that is a touch attack will get the bonus damage.

[Gallowglass]

"...The wearer's melee attacks cause extra points of fire damage equal to his Charisma bonus (minimum +1). This bonus damage also applies to touch attacks. ..."

Seems pretty clear, any melee attack you make will get the bonus damage. Also any attack you make that is a touch attack will get the bonus damage.

Let me guess. You are trying to use the extra damage with a ranged touch attack, yes?

You will find an abundance of people on here to agree with you on the RAWgic that the game designers just said "touch attack" and not "melee touch attack" so how they choose to read the rules will be to let you ignore the intent and follow the ambiguous writing.

But the word melee appears multiple times elsewhere in the written description. I don't feel that the fact they tried to save on space by leaving it out in the one place indicates they meant the item to illogically apply to ranged touch attacks.

I side with your dm.

[Hiro Quester]

I'd say it's pretty clear. Any melee attack, or touch attack (e.g. While casting Irresistable dance) but not ranged touch attack.

[SethoMarkus]

I can see where the discrepancy is coming from.

One is reading it as:
"Melee attacks and Touch attacks cause extra damage"

The other is reading it as:
"Melee attacks (even Melee attacks that are Touch attacks) cause extra damage."

The first reading is exploitive of poor wording (not a bad thing!) and probably RAW. The second reading makes more sense (to me), and is probably RAI. Either way, unless it is something that is really important to your character concept, I recommend you abide by your DM's ruling. It is their responsibility to make a decision on rules disputes, and in this case they make it clear that they want it to work only with melee attacks (whether normal or touch).

[Barbarian Horde]

Agreed with the people above. As stated it mentions multiple times that it's intended for melee touch attacks. Try not to read it like a lawyer, but instead for it's intended purpose. Honestly if it's not game breaking consider talking to your DM about it.

"This bonus damage also applies to touch attacks" That is poorly worded I do admit. Unfortunately the context above does show an indication for it's intended purpose.

[Khedrac]

Something else to bear in mind, usually when reading rules the term "touch attack" does not apply to "ranged touch attacks" - without the word "ranged" the "melee is implicit and always assumed.
It's one of the standard readings of the Duskblade's ability to channel touch spells - they cannot channel ranged touch spells.

[Urpriest]

Something else to bear in mind, usually when reading rules the term "touch attack" does not apply to "ranged touch attacks" - without the word "ranged" the "melee is implicit and always assumed.
It's one of the standard readings of the Duskblade's ability to channel touch spells - they cannot channel ranged touch spells.

This. Even if you rules-lawyer, "ranged touch attacks" do not fall under the category of "touch attacks" for most purposes.

[AnachroNinja]

I think it's a fairly low power option either way. Since melee touch attacks obviously fall under the umbrella of "melee attacks", I personally feel it makes more sense that it was intended to apply to touch attacks of all kinds, including ranged. It seems redundant otherwise. An argument can be made either way, and since the classes that would benefit most from this are things like warlocks or odd acid splash builds, I think it's reasonable.

[SedraxisXNG]

Thanks for the help , playground. We ruled it applies to melee only. Ironically, despite what you might think, it was me suggesting this to my DM for his sorceror NPC for some extra damage on the side, instead of me using it for myself