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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next GoT Sacred Oath: Oath of the Watcher [PEACH]



DracoKnight
2016-06-24, 12:18 AM
So I guess I've just been in a bit of a paladin craze these last couple of weeks, because this is like the 3rd Sacred Oath I've made in that amount of time. So, this is basically as close to a D&Dization of the Night's Watch as I could get. They're probably more fighters than paladins, but with their Oath, I like them as paladins - and because of Oath spells, etc. obviously the presented Watcher is supposed to be a member of the Night's Watch before magic left Westeros (or after it comes back). This is the first draft of the Watcher (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/SJTsZHcr), and I will tweak it as the forum sees fit! :smallsmile:

khadgar567
2016-06-24, 12:51 AM
So I guess I've just been in a bit of a paladin craze these last couple of weeks, because this is like the 3rd Sacred Oath I've made in that amount of time. So, this is basically as close to a D&Dization of the Night's Watch as I could get. They're probably more fighters than paladins, but with their Oath, I like them as paladins - and because of Oath spells, etc. obviously the presented Watcher is supposed to be a member of the Night's Watch before magic left Westeros (or after it comes back). This is the first draft of the Watcher (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/SJTsZHcr), and I will tweak it as the forum sees fit! :smallsmile:
another wizards of the coast scale work nice job mate only think remains is way to get direwolf companion( damn ı want to play john snow in a game

DracoKnight
2016-06-24, 01:11 AM
another wizards of the coast scale work nice job mate only think remains is way to get direwolf companion( damn ı want to play john snow in a game

I'm glad you like it! :smallsmile:

And you can get a Dire Wolf companion :smallsmile: Animal friendship works on animals with an INT of 4 or less, and Dire Wolves have an INT of 3 :smallbiggrin:

GandalfTheWhite
2016-06-24, 01:17 AM
The 7th and 15th level abilities seem really strong...but IDK that they're OP...they're just strong.

EDIT: I was also planning on making a Paladin Oath for the Night's Watch - you beat me to it :smalltongue:

Rusty Killinger
2016-06-24, 03:48 AM
I like it, just a couple notes.


The 7th and 15th level abilities seem really strong...but IDK that they're OP...they're just strong.

Ditto, seems like you could get a smite effect on every single attack you ever make at a cost of zero spell slots. Oh, and add an extra effect for every paladin in the party.

As for "Watcher in the Night" the way to use it seems to be:
1) Convince the enemy to fight you next to a bonfire.
2) Burn a limited resource (but not for the awesome magic weapon)
3) Maneuver the enemy such that a shove will put them in the fire.
4) Give up an attack to make a shove.
5) Make your athletics check.
6) The enemy needs to fail a save.

And for all that you deal 3d8 damage, which is not that much more than the attack you gave up. Although it does start to look better if you can add thunderous smite to every single attack you make.

I do like the idea of turning a fire into a standing weapon, just make putting the damage onto the baddies a little easier.

DracoKnight
2016-06-24, 05:40 AM
Okay, so I restricted the Smite part of the 7th level feature to yourself.

GandalfTheWhite
2016-06-24, 11:15 AM
Okay, so I restricted the Smite part of the 7th level feature to yourself.

It's a lot less worrisome now - still strong, but given how weak their aura is, I think you're fine :smallsmile:

15th level feature isn't horribly OP, now that I think about it - you're choosing from one of 3 spells and if you run into something immune to that damage type you're screwed on it. And I went back into the PHB, and there are already abilities that can give you damaging spells at will, so I think you're fine here :smallsmile:

DracoKnight
2016-06-24, 11:25 AM
It's a lot less worrisome now - still strong, but given how weak their aura is, I think you're fine :smallsmile:

15th level feature isn't horribly OP, now that I think about it - you're choosing from one of 3 spells and if you run into something immune to that damage type you're screwed on it. And I went back into the PHB, and there are already abilities that can give you damaging spells at will, so I think you're fine here :smallsmile:

Awesome! Thanks for your input, Gandalf :smallsmile:

GandalfTheWhite
2016-06-24, 12:53 PM
Awesome! Thanks for your input, Gandalf :smallsmile:

You're welcome! I think you're done here :smallsmile:

GandalfTheWhite
2016-06-24, 12:55 PM
As for "Watcher in the Night" the way to use it seems to be:
1) Convince the enemy to fight you next to a bonfire.
2) Burn a limited resource (but not for the awesome magic weapon)
3) Maneuver the enemy such that a shove will put them in the fire.
4) Give up an attack to make a shove.
5) Make your athletics check.
6) The enemy needs to fail a save.

And for all that you deal 3d8 damage, which is not that much more than the attack you gave up. Although it does start to look better if you can add thunderous smite to every single attack you make.

I do like the idea of turning a fire into a standing weapon, just make putting the damage onto the baddies a little easier.

Don't forget, the fire's also magical light - so if your DM tries to pull darkness shenanigans, they won't work :smallbiggrin:

Requiemforlust
2016-06-24, 01:04 PM
A small suggestion: expand their capstone to be against "fey, fiends, and undead..." I know that on the show they only deal with undead, but that won't be true (except in very specific cases) for D&D.

DracoKnight
2016-06-24, 01:05 PM
A small suggestion: expand their capstone to be against "fey, fiends, and undead..." I know that on the show they only deal with undead, but that won't be true (except in very specific cases) for D&D.

Point taken. I will change it to this.

Requiemforlust
2016-06-24, 01:06 PM
Point taken. I will change it to this.

Awesome. It shouldn't be OP, since they'll only get it for 1 hour a day.

DracoKnight
2016-06-24, 01:08 PM
Awesome. It shouldn't be OP, since they'll only get it for 1 hour a day.

Changed it, Requiem :smallsmile:

Requiemforlust
2016-06-24, 01:10 PM
Changed it, Requiem :smallsmile:

As far as capstones go, it's probably still a little weak - non-concentration protection from evil and good for an hour, combined with an extended divine favor, but that combined with your 7th and 15th level abilities allows you to save your spell slots mostly for Divine Smite - so you should be fine :smallbiggrin:

Rusty Killinger
2016-06-24, 01:21 PM
Don't forget, the fire's also magical light - so if your DM tries to pull darkness shenanigans, they won't work :smallbiggrin:

Still needs a re-write.

GandalfTheWhite
2016-06-24, 01:27 PM
Still needs a re-write.

I guess I don't see where it needs a rewrite...

DracoKnight
2016-06-24, 01:38 PM
I like it, just a couple notes.



Ditto, seems like you could get a smite effect on every single attack you ever make at a cost of zero spell slots. Oh, and add an extra effect for every paladin in the party.

As for "Watcher in the Night" the way to use it seems to be:
1) Convince the enemy to fight you next to a bonfire.
2) Burn a limited resource (but not for the awesome magic weapon)
3) Maneuver the enemy such that a shove will put them in the fire.
4) Give up an attack to make a shove.
5) Make your athletics check.
6) The enemy needs to fail a save.

And for all that you deal 3d8 damage, which is not that much more than the attack you gave up. Although it does start to look better if you can add thunderous smite to every single attack you make.

I do like the idea of turning a fire into a standing weapon, just make putting the damage onto the baddies a little easier.


Still needs a re-write.


I guess I don't see where it needs a rewrite...

The primary purpose of this Channel Divinity was the magical light to pierce magical darkness - trying to fit within the theme of keeping back the unending night. The only reason I defined damage was to save the DM time in ruling what the damage would be - since I know a lot of players who would go: "Damn, that fire's magical now...I bet I could inflict more damage than normal if I pushed something in..." and then are disappointed with the DM tells them that they gave up their attack to deal 1d4 fire damage.

I personally don't think that it needs to be rewritten - again, damage isn't its primary purpose. I was merely ensuring that a DPR paladin doesn't give up one of their very valuable attacks to deal extremely subpar damage.

DracoKnight
2016-06-24, 05:02 PM
I cleaned up the wording for Watcher In The Night.

Amnoriath
2016-06-24, 05:45 PM
Honestly, this Oath doesn't seem to follow its flavor or implications. What you made is smitey paladin that for some reason gets fire and cold resistance when you barely add anything about being a watch, guardian,..etc except maybe a couple of spells. Plus the the whole hold on to the smite to always add damage is really excessive considering this include things like Banishing Smite with 5d10 force damage. Ultimately not only are the features imbalanced but it isn't even that captivating or well-rounded in character.

GandalfTheWhite
2016-06-24, 06:08 PM
Honestly, this Oath doesn't seem to follow its flavor or implications. What you made is smitey paladin that for some reason gets fire and cold resistance when you barely add anything about being a watch, guardian,..etc except maybe a couple of spells. Plus the the whole hold on to the smite to always add damage is really excessive considering this include things like Banishing Smite with 5d10 force damage. Ultimately not only are the features imbalanced but it isn't even that captivating or well-rounded in character.

DracoKnight, I know we talked over PM, and you said the 7th level feature was only supposed to extend to 1st-level smiles, but your forgot to clarify that :smalltongue:

DracoKnight
2016-06-24, 06:49 PM
DracoKnight, I know we talked over PM, and you said the 7th level feature was only supposed to extend to 1st-level smiles, but your forgot to clarify that :smalltongue:

Oh, right. Sorry!

GandalfTheWhite
2016-06-24, 06:52 PM
Honestly, this Oath doesn't seem to follow its flavor or implications. What you made is smitey paladin that for some reason gets fire and cold resistance when you barely add anything about being a watch, guardian,..etc except maybe a couple of spells. Plus the the whole hold on to the smite to always add damage is really excessive considering this include things like Banishing Smite with 5d10 force damage. Ultimately not only are the features imbalanced but it isn't even that captivating or well-rounded in character.

And to be fair, Amnoriath - Draco's taking a mundane character archetype and trying to brew a subclass around them for a magical class. If you don't find it interesting, don't offer your input... :smalltongue:

DracoKnight
2016-06-24, 06:59 PM
Explicitly added the intended 1st-level restriction to the 7th level feature.

Amnoriath
2016-06-24, 09:51 PM
And to be fair, Amnoriath - Draco's taking a mundane character archetype and trying to brew a subclass around them for a magical class. If you don't find it interesting, don't offer your input... :smalltongue:

No, he isn't. He is using it for flavor and leaving it the door with only a holy bonfire to somehow appease the archetype. This focusing on smites, smiting more, fire, and cold resistances completely departs from the idea all together. In order to get what at I mean he doesn't even have a single divination spell added. So no this isn't just me saying I don't find it interesting, it is me saying he isn't being true to his flavor while not fleshing it out in the mechanics by focusing on damage.

GandalfTheWhite
2016-06-24, 10:00 PM
No, he isn't. He is using it for flavor and leaving it the door with only a holy bonfire to somehow appease the archetype. This focusing on smites, smiting more, fire, and cold resistances completely departs from the idea all together. In order to get what at I mean he doesn't even have a single divination spell added. So no this isn't just me saying I don't find it interesting, it is me saying he isn't being true to his flavor while not fleshing it out in the mechanics by focusing on damage.

I'm reading this more as Jon Snow, the archetype - I guess that they could use more Divination school spells...but you get a bunch of those from being a Paladin, I'm pretty sure - now, you do get Smites from being a paladin too, but IDK...I can agree that maybe the 7th level ability needs to be change a little. Another way to look at it is this: They're Watchers, yes, but their Smiting comes into play because they're also READY for when those apocalyptic events begin to happen.

DracoKnight
2016-06-26, 12:51 AM
Another way to look at it is this: They're Watchers, yes, but their Smiting comes into play because they're also READY for when those apocalyptic events begin to happen.

That was the intent - but I guess I could tweak some of their features. Amnoriath, what would you suggest?

Amnoriath
2016-06-27, 10:00 AM
That was the intent - but I guess I could tweak some of their features. Amnoriath, what would you suggest?

1. In your spells you already have a lot of different ways to gain resistance to energy damage and you even have Elemental Bane which is more like a blaster's best friend. I would switch a couple of those out especially Elemental Bane and Flame Arrows(you aren't going to be an archer especially with smites). The fact is that they are suppose to be a clan of warrior scouts and you don't have any divination spells or any means to alarm anybody.
2. Valyrian Steel feels like just another magic weapon that you have and pretty much that is what the stuff is. It also isn't specific to Watchers so to me this is a relatively normal magical weapon you give someone, not something you summon as a Watcher. Perhaps some kind semi smite like ability that forces them to run away?
3. Watcher in the Night is quite cool actually though as is I can't but wonder if dousing your sword in oil while lighting it would make it subject to this effect. After all making it magical does make it immune to being doused. Perhaps a warding effect would be better.
4. Winter is Coming really is good as it is with just the resistances as they are the most common energies and covers environmental temperature survival. The carrying of smite damage is excessive with Thunderous Smite you are looking at an extra 2d6 thunder damage which is exceedingly rare to find resistance. This compounds at level 11 and 15 makes it a permanent resource. Lets not even talk about Watcher in the Night.
5. Knight's Blade again seems compounding on the flavor of Valyrian Steel except it is with smite spells which makes it better. While not unbalanced on its own it is with the level 7 rider and it begs whether or not is your guy being the scout and defender here or is he just killing.
6. Lord of the Watch is almost too good against those listed as it is 1 hour but it does nothing to others. It may be the case the only official enemies of humanity are those types in the series but in play there are a bunch of others in which this may never come up. Plus since since it just makes really resilient against and add a little more damage they will only be paying attention to you if you are dealing obscene amounts of damage with you compounding smites. Perhaps you could just give them the bonus +3 weapon, some kind of Truesight, and either some resistances or action economy(got to get the scout in there some time).