Can I ask for optimization help with a Sorcerer?

[Odessa333]

Hey all!

I'm not one for optimization usually, but I'm trying something new with a new group, and hoping to get some advice.

I'm trying to build a variant human Sorcerer, at level 2. She rolled for stats, and has 16, 15, 15, 13, 9, and 8 to work with for her numbers. I had planned to be just a blaster, but I'm told with these stats I should have some melee/gish to it too, but I don't know how to do that.

I'm told the rest of the party is 1) variant human bard, 2) tiefling fighter/barbarian, 3) Half-elf druid, 4) dragonborn Paladin/sorcerer, and 5) Halfling rogue.

I'm thinking of going favored Soul (which I checked and is allowed) to get the life domain, to have some back up healing and spiritual weapon. For her feat, I'm thinking of grabbing the Actor feat, for the +1 CHA and story reasons (she's a peasant pretending to be a noble, so having advantage of deception rolls will be nice). If I put the 16 to CHA, +1 from actor, and +1 from v. human, that brings that to 18, which isn't too shabby for level 2. I'm torn on the other +1, mostly as I can't decide on the stats themselves. My first thought was:

9 STR
16 DEX
15 CON
8 INT
13 WIS
18 CHA

but I'm torn on how 'gish' (melee) she can be with these stats. I've been advised to go for it with these rolls, but not sure how it would work. Do I keep the 16 on DEX and use a finesse dagger? Put a higher stat to STR? I could multi-class, but I'm not sure how long the game is going to go so I'm not planning LONG term. That said, is the gish/melee worth it?


For what it's worth, on spells I'm leaning towards:
cantrips: Shocking grasp, firebolt, prestidigitation, and minor illusion
1st: Comprehend languages, Magic missile, Shield (cure wounds, Bless)


I know it's not optimal, but then that's why I'm here, right? I'm still fairly new to 5e, so I'm open to ideas. Thank you for reading, and happy gaming out there!

V

[RulesJD]

You've got a Druid, a Fighter/Barb, and a Paladin Sorc.


No offense, but those are pretty optimized melee builds, more so then you'll be, eve as a Favoured Soul Sorc. I'd stick with being the Arcane master of the universe because your group kind of lacks that, even with the Bard.

[BiPolar]

Are those rolls specifically for those stats? Or is that how you applied them for your Sorcerer choice?

Something to consider if it's the latter is change them up and go for a Bladesinger.

[Odessa333]

Are those rolls specifically for those stats? Or is that how you applied them for your Sorcerer choice?

Something to consider if it's the latter is change them up and go for a Bladesinger.


I can change the stats up, that set-up was my first instinct. I'm second guessing it at this point. How would you stat it?

[BiPolar]

I can change the stats up, that set-up was my first instinct. I'm second guessing it at this point. How would you stat it?

If you go the Wizard-BladeSinger route, I'd suggest swapping your CHA and INT, bu otherwise that'd be a helluva build! You have to choose High-elf, though as your race.

[Odessa333]

Ah. I'm not familiar with bladesinger, to be honest. Still, I'd like to stick with the v. human Sorcerer. I'd lose too much of the flavor changing to an elven wizard.

[Pex]

Your party has melee covered. Concentrate on magic.

An idea:

Your main combat focus, for now, is range striking using cantrips. Firebolt is your main one for the most damage. Ray of Frost is back-up for fighting against someone resistant to fire. Shocking Grasp is for when an opponent gets to you in melee anyway. It's mainly so you can move away without getting an opportunity attack because the opponent loses his reaction. The damage is so that you continue to contribute to hit point attrition as opposed to using the Disengage action instead of casting and contributing nothing that round. Fourth cantrip could be Minor Illusion to give you something to do besides damage and give you fun in imagination and diversity.

Your first level spells would be: Shield for emergency AC, Expeditious Retreat for emergency speed, and Silent Image for when Minor Image is not enough. If you're paranoid you could make it Feather Fall instead, but you'd use Silent Image more often. Your spell choices are built in situational helping you to conserve but for important situations.

When you get metamagic next level, take Twinned Spell to twin Firebolt and Ray of Frost now and buffs later. Distant Spell is nice to increase your cantrip range to be further away from bad guys.

As for the feat for being variant human, a common one for sorcerers is Elemental Adept for your favored element, usually fire. However, consider War Caster. It seems redundant since you're proficient in Constitution but consider. It gives you something to do in the off chance you get to make an opportunity attack such as a bad guy running away you don't want to escape. The advantage on concentration checks is key. Combined with proficiency, it is hard for you to lose concentration. When you're twinning buff spells on party members, like Haste, Polymorph, or Fly, you really do not want to lose concentration. Another option is Spell Sniper to increase your cantrip range and choose a different metamagic than Distant Spell.

[Ghost Nappa]

Keep the 9 STR / 16 DEX / 15 CON / 8 INT / 13 WIS / 18 CHA spread.

Put the second +1 into CON.

I wouldn't recommend being a gish build tbh. You have decent HP and DEX, but you also have three meatshields and you don't have Warcaster. Throw on some armor and be glad you're not as squishy as most other Sorcerers.

For Spells:
Cantrips:
Minor Illusion - Trick people by making fake walls convincing them that they've walked into dead ends, "conjure" up fake cover to hide behind either to make enemies change their positioning to get to you or if you need to hide
Firebolt - Ranged auto-attack. Excellent range, but beware of how common fire resistance is
Mage Hand - Short-range Telekinesis, use to disarm traps and things from a safe distance
Filler - Message for short-range Telepathy? Friends for Interrogations? Prestidigation for RPing Utility like cooking? You can't really go wrong here and you get another pick at Level 4.


You could do a Lightning Lure/Green-Flame Blade combo if you want to go melee after all, but I don't suggest it since your party seems to lack range.

Level 1:
Shield - You have no idea how many times this has saved my life.
Expeditious Retreat - When you need to run away yesterday
Magic Missile - When FIRE damage isn't enough, or you need to guarantee a hit, or you get into melee and don't want to be in melee.


I don't recommend Comprehend Languages because it is a situational ritual spell. You might want to talk to the Bard about splitting ritual picks, but you might want to keep it. It's not useless, but you both get very few spells to learn and it's not the greatest use of an early spell considering you don't really do rituals.

[SharkForce]

if you want to have a bit of gish, just grab one of the melee cantrips from SCAG. that plus decent dex gives you enough tools to deal melee damage if you actually do need to be on the front lines. you can even grab it with the magic initiate feat if you want, if you feel like you could use some more cantrips (and a first level spell known, which is not a bad deal on a sorcerer).

if you're feeling *really* crazy, 3 levels of tome pact warlock can get you shillelagh as a cantrip as well. also eldritch blast, agonizing blast, and some recharging spell slots. but i wouldn't really recommend all that unless you wanted the warlock dip in the first place.

but seriously, you don't need to be a gish. your high attributes mean you could probably pull it off, but that doesn't mean you should try to pull it off rather than just being a sorcerer. your group doesn't look like it really needs another person that can use melee weapons, so why overcomplicate things?

[Biggstick]

Nobody's said it yet, but they're all thinking it. Two levels of Warlock for Agonizing Blast + Eldritch Blast and then the rest Sorcerer is a fantastic build that remains strong throughout the entire game. You could even go for a third level in Warlock to gain access to level 1 and 2 Rituals (If you go with the Book of Ancient Secrets Invocation).

You'd also gain access to another Invocation of which there are plenty of good choices for you. Devil's Sight and Mask of Many Faces both stand out for your character imo.

I'd also echo what everyone else is saying and stay ranged. Even if you don't go Warlock, you have a pretty melee optimized party that lacks solid range options.

[Laserlight]

I'm told with these stats I should have some melee/gish to it too, but I don't know how to do that.
I'm told the rest of the party is 1) variant human bard, 2) tiefling fighter/barbarian, 3) Half-elf druid, 4) dragonborn Paladin/sorcerer, and 5) Halfling rogue.


Whoever told you "should" was wrong. You could, if you wanted, but that party has plenty of melee already. Sorcerer or Warlock2/SorcX, take some area effect and control spells, and you're set. If you take the dip into warlock, consider getting the invocation to let your EB push.

[Adderbane]

If you decide to do the warlock route, you might want to see if your dm will let you do the undying light patron. it synergizes well with favored soul (especially light domain)

[bid]

If you really want Cha18, got half-elf. But I feel Cha16 is enough. And do not grab actor unless it really fits your RP concept.

As a vuman, I'd go 9 16 16 8 13 16 and grab inspiring leader. That's the best "healing" you can do. You can also dip 1 level of life cleric (Wis13 is enough) whenever you feel like it.

I fell sorcerer 1d6 HD is too low for melee, and with barb / pally you can stay behind. You'll do much better by twinning some concentration buff on them.

You can still do well in melee, twin BB does more than enough damage. That would pair better with tempest cleric.

[ES Curse]

Gish advice:
-As a FS, you have AC covered fairly well between medium armor and your DEX score
-If you really want Actor to explain your character's ability to pass as a noblewoman, see if your DM will just give you advantage on checks related to passing off as your noblewoman identity because of your background. War Caster gives you advantage on concentration saves (you'll be making a lot more of those than deception checks) and you can cast spells with a shield equipped, which is critical to making your AC fantastic.
-Sorc is probably the worst of the 3 classes with SCAG cantrips to use them. Bladelocks and Bladesingers work much better because they get access to martial weapons, which is actually really important in the long run. If you want to be an optimized gish, I strongly recommend taking one of those classes instead; the AC from your shield+medium armor is nowhere near as good as a glaive/rapier/greatsword.

Character advice:
-Whoever told you to gish with those stats wasn't looking at the rest of the party. Everyone else, save maybe the druid (if he's a Land druid), outclasses you in melee. They all get martial weapons, and all of them but the Bard have better melee damage than you could realistically put out.
-As a Life Favored Soul, you have the unique ability to heal and use Metamagic. Keeping with the V.Human traits, take Magic Initiate and get yourself a familiar to fly into battle and cast Cure Wounds for you. Now you can focus on blasting. Build your sorcerer as normal from there.

[djreynolds]

Hey all!

I'm not one for optimization usually, but I'm trying something new with a new group, and hoping to get some advice.

I'm trying to build a variant human Sorcerer, at level 2. She rolled for stats, and has 16, 15, 15, 13, 9, and 8 to work with for her numbers. I had planned to be just a blaster, but I'm told with these stats I should have some melee/gish to it too, but I don't know how to do that.

I'm told the rest of the party is 1) variant human bard, 2) tiefling fighter/barbarian, 3) Half-elf druid, 4) dragonborn Paladin/sorcerer, and 5) Halfling rogue.

I'm thinking of going favored Soul (which I checked and is allowed) to get the life domain, to have some back up healing and spiritual weapon. For her feat, I'm thinking of grabbing the Actor feat, for the +1 CHA and story reasons (she's a peasant pretending to be a noble, so having advantage of deception rolls will be nice). If I put the 16 to CHA, +1 from actor, and +1 from v. human, that brings that to 18, which isn't too shabby for level 2. I'm torn on the other +1, mostly as I can't decide on the stats themselves. My first thought was:

9 STR
16 DEX
15 CON
8 INT
13 WIS
18 CHA

but I'm torn on how 'gish' (melee) she can be with these stats. I've been advised to go for it with these rolls, but not sure how it would work. Do I keep the 16 on DEX and use a finesse dagger? Put a higher stat to STR? I could multi-class, but I'm not sure how long the game is going to go so I'm not planning LONG term. That said, is the gish/melee worth it?


For what it's worth, on spells I'm leaning towards:
cantrips: Shocking grasp, firebolt, prestidigitation, and minor illusion
1st: Comprehend languages, Magic missile, Shield (cure wounds, Bless)


I know it's not optimal, but then that's why I'm here, right? I'm still fairly new to 5e, so I'm open to ideas. Thank you for reading, and happy gaming out there!

V

You get medium armor, so throw that 13 in dex. Good enough. Chromatic orb is a good spell to have for you. Shield is awesome. Just play a sorcerer. The actor feat is cool, but I would take maybe resilient wisdom. You could place that 9 there and it becomes a 10. Now you have con, chr, and wis save proficiency. Or take resilient dex and make that 13 into a 14.

But why not take elemental adept? Its short term, the bard and druid can cover down on utility spells and you can just blast. Or take magic initiate and grab eldritch blast.

[TheFlyingCleric]

Ah. I'm not familiar with bladesinger, to be honest. Still, I'd like to stick with the v. human Sorcerer. I'd lose too much of the flavor changing to an elven wizard.

Would Half-elf be too much of a problem? You get a total bonus of +4 to stats instead of +3, and you also get an additional skill (deception perhaps?), darkvision, and fey ancestry. Worth the feat in my opinion.

As others have mentioned, your party members are all very capable melee combat classes. This means you don't have to be. Sorcerers are primarily ranged blasters, and should try to stay away from the front line due to most spells not requiring you to be in your enemies face to cast them.
You should still have a melee option though, just in case. For Sorcerers (apart from favored soul) and Wizards (apart from bladesingers) this amounts to "pick one melee cantrip that scales in damage with level". So if you have shocking grasp, you'll be fine. Other good options include booming blade or Green flame blade, but that's only if your DM allows SCAG (http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/sc-adventurers-guide) material.

Really though, with your stat rolls, whatever you do is going to work fine. In my experience, you can't build a character in 5e that's actually terrible without trying really hard to do so.